78 replies to this topic

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Sycron, perhaps you should try Al Franken. I've bought his book, "Lies and Lying Liars Who Tell Them" and it's a little bit better than Moore's.

I was more impressed by it than Moore's attempts. Numbers, graphs and at one point he even sets out a methodology as to how he determines some of his facts. He's far more logical than Moore and thus makes a more convincing case.

The only blatant lie I could tell was the fact that he kept mentioning that this guy, called O'Reilly, had his face on the cover.... when the only face on the cover is blatantly Al Franken's.

I loved the back cover though. How they got a quote of Ian Hislop (editor of the Private Eye) saying "Fabulous" (coz he says that word quite a lot, apparently).

[Alakhriveion]

O'Rielly was on the cover of the one I had... Hardback, American.

[Alakhriveion]

For the last time: "The Fahrenheit 9/11 Reader," currently available, and not all that expensive. Read it before attacking the film.

[Hero of Winds]

For the last time: "The Fahrenheit 9/11 Reader," currently available, and not all that expensive. Read it before attacking the film.

Considering who wrote it, I'm not sure I want to even look into this book.

[Alakhriveion]

It's basically just a massive bibliography. Plus, Moore won't corrupt you... if you thought you were right it wouldn't worry you. I read conservative stuff all tha time.

[Hero of Winds]

It's basically just a massive bibliography. Plus, Moore won't corrupt you... if you thought you were right it wouldn't worry you. I read conservative stuff all tha time.

I read liberal stuff too. Like "Legends Alliance Forms > Legends Alliance > Controversial".

But I fail to see where a novelization of Moore's movie could give insight into the truth of his movie. Or lack thereof.

[Ditto McCloaker]

Actually, Franken tells another lie about O'Reilly in his book, over and over. He insists O'Reilly lied about his birthplace. This was finally put to rest, in O'Reilly's favor. He was born in a working class city, as he has always said. Franken finally apologized. So much for his 'facts.'

I was amused by Franken's book til he went to Bob Jones University and showed what an elitist bunghole he really is. Those people were nothing but civil to him, but he based his whole opinion on the school on the nasty propaganda about it, and one bad line on their website that nobody at the actual school had any knowledge of. His son was a lot smarter ("Dad, they just have different beliefs than us.") Not that Franken cared. He was out on a crazy Nazi-hunt.

The only person he was right about was Ann Coulter, but it's hard not to be. The woman's crazy (kinda like a female, conservative Moore, really)

[Alakhriveion]

Bob Jones is a bit loony, and quite racist, you do know that? Second, if he gets something wrong and appologizes, that doesn't mean he's a liar.

[Ditto McCloaker]

Oh, this is gonna be sweet.

"Unless you're a Republican President."

Yep. That was sweet.

And I think the minority students at Bob Jones would be shocked to hear you say it's racist.

[Hero of Winds]

Second, if he gets something wrong and appologizes, that doesn't mean he's a liar.

I'm holding you to that.

[Chikara Nadir]

*sniffles* How could anyone not like..the man who created Canadian Bacon? C'mon, corny John Candy and Rhea Perlman...

And I haveta like 9/11. When they talked about Bush's "homeland security" forces being at full force, then showed the Oregon coast.....and one man to watch over it....that really felt like home. Especially because I live on the Oregon coast. And just to keep the crowds and potential rioters for my town's spring break in check, they need to recruit up the police officers from several counties to come here...last year it was something like half the state troopers in the state too, if I remember correctly?


I mean...sure...our spring breaks have occasionally involved naked people dancing in the streets around a campfire created from objects they stole from all the nearby stores, and every news crew in the state shows up here hoping for a piece of the action...but that's beside the point. >.>;

[Ditto McCloaker]

Yeah, take his spin on it. He don't have no 'genda. He's just good ol' Mike Moore, rather like a grossly unkempt Santa Claus with a movie camera.

I'm holding you to that.

HA! Ringed!

[Chikara Nadir]

Oh, of course he has an agenda, just like all of Washington DC does. People are entitled to their opinions and free speech, after all...unless you're against the Patriot Act.

[Alakhriveion]

And I think the minority students at Bob Jones would be shocked to hear you say it's racist.

Not allowing inter-racial dating is, by any rational standard, racism. I don't care if they have a different belief system, that's disgusting.

And I think the minority students at Bob Jones would be shocked to hear you say it's racist.

Who denied that he has an agenda? You don't have to lie to make a point, you know.

[Ditto McCloaker]

Keep trying, Alak. Re-read the chapter (as I just did) and do some reading. The inter-racial dating policy was the legacy of some nut-cases in the faculty, who had been junked, as had the entire interracial-dating policy, long before Franken did his little expose (which exposed nothing except what a pompous, judgemental elitist he was). Some of the students themselves had never heard of this idea. I heard somewhere (less verifiable source) that the policy had never actually been seriously enforced in the first place. You see, pencils have erasers for a reason, Aluk.

This little detail is frequently omitted by the propaganda machines who despise the Christian right. Keep trying, though. I actually had to get up to check on that one.

For the record, racism would imply that other races wouldn't be allowed on campus. They were. They just weren't allowed to date, which is merely an offshoot of a rather popular belief held by many Americans up til about the 70's, that the races shouldn't intermarry. Even my mom's still a leery of the idea, though she admits it's just the way she was raised. This isn't racism. It's just another bad belief (like women not being allowed to vote, or hatred of foreigners) that needed time to finish dying.

[Alakhriveion]

Actually, the policy was only revoked in the last few years. Regardless of enforcement, it's a rather perverse philosophy. Now, did Franken go to far? Yes. That's his job, it has to be funny, which "kind and reasonable" usually isn't.

Racism doesn't just mean the most extreme form. A dictator who doesn't kill anyone is still a fascist, nyet?

[Ditto McCloaker]

I'm not defending it. I'm just saying that's the way things had been for a long time. Go back far enough, and that was the rule on most college campuses, even if it were unofficial. And it was enforced by the students themselves.

Bob Jones merely had it on the books officially, but had been ignoring it for years. They just rescinded it when some P.C. thugs made a big deal about it.

Why, sure, a Nazi who doesn't hurt anyone is still a Nazi, and a communist leader who doesn't hurt anyone is... but I dabble in hypotheticals.