Originally posted by Alak
What did you think the Red on the Flag stood for?
Blood, fool. *smacks*
Moore Speaketh
Started by
Alakhriveion
, Sep 28 2004 10:56 AM
78 replies to this topic
#31
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Posted 28 September 2004 - 06:24 PM
Blood, fool. *smacks*
#32
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Posted 28 September 2004 - 06:28 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Zythe+Sep 28 2004, 01:54 PM-->
QUOTE(Zythe @ Sep 28 2004, 01:54 PM)
Michael Moore ... farenheight 9/11 ... I don't know what to say ... he's a strange person.
Son of Jor-El: Cool name, a Smallville fan I see.
[/b][/quote]
Or maybe he's a Superman fan.
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Better question: Why hasn't anybody taken a shot at him?
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Copyright © 2025 Zelda Legends
Son of Jor-El: Cool name, a Smallville fan I see.
[/b][/quote]
Or maybe he's a Superman fan.
#33
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Posted 28 September 2004 - 06:29 PM
Like I said before, Moore is NOT a weiner. Weiners are small.
#34
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Posted 28 September 2004 - 07:02 PM
That's not a conspiracy theory! "The Man" is the small group of rich people who all but literally own us, "Whitey" is that yuppie punk who drives a BMW, listens to Rush Limbaugh, and uses the words "Paradigm" and "Negro Problem" in private. In short, the stereotypical images of the Ruling Class and the Bourgiousie.You are such a hippie. No whacked-out conspiracy theories, please.
#35
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Posted 28 September 2004 - 08:36 PM
Consider this: We won the Revolutionary War because Britian got tired of us and didn't want to sail across the Atlantic. Do we know that's true? No, it's a possibility though. In either case, our entire government was based on it. there's a fifty percent chance that it was based on a lie.
More bills pass about congressmans' salaries than any other topic in the entire Legislative branch.
And, no, the system has nothing to do with us, the citizens, because if it did, then Al Gore would be President right now. Not George Bush. 'k?
More bills pass about congressmans' salaries than any other topic in the entire Legislative branch.
And, no, the system has nothing to do with us, the citizens, because if it did, then Al Gore would be President right now. Not George Bush. 'k?
#36
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Posted 29 September 2004 - 03:20 PM
Grrr... Michael Moore...
What I'd like to know is how he can walk the streets safely. He's a God**** SOCIALIST for crying out loud. He doesn't even fear saying it out loud (an accomplishment it's taken America way too long to achieve). Why, oh WHY don't we have concentration camps for these kinds of people?!
Sorry if this is inappropriate, but this man burns my pancakes. He slams the American Dream, criticizes America for standing up for what's right in the world, says we're all bad... Argh, liberals like that drive me up the freaking wall. Why can't he (and all of his venemous ilk) just move up to Canada and leave America alone?!
By this man's freaking twisted logic, I should be a troubled hoodlum because I was born poor. The reason I'm poor is because the rich in this country are supposedly part of some evil, twisted plot to steal all my money. And if I work hard and make something of myself, I'm either rare or evil too. God, I could just close my fingers around this man's neck (if they'd fit).
Ditto McCloaker- Proud Republican. Cheerleader for the American Way. :bowser:
What I'd like to know is how he can walk the streets safely. He's a God**** SOCIALIST for crying out loud. He doesn't even fear saying it out loud (an accomplishment it's taken America way too long to achieve). Why, oh WHY don't we have concentration camps for these kinds of people?!
Sorry if this is inappropriate, but this man burns my pancakes. He slams the American Dream, criticizes America for standing up for what's right in the world, says we're all bad... Argh, liberals like that drive me up the freaking wall. Why can't he (and all of his venemous ilk) just move up to Canada and leave America alone?!
By this man's freaking twisted logic, I should be a troubled hoodlum because I was born poor. The reason I'm poor is because the rich in this country are supposedly part of some evil, twisted plot to steal all my money. And if I work hard and make something of myself, I'm either rare or evil too. God, I could just close my fingers around this man's neck (if they'd fit).
Ditto McCloaker- Proud Republican. Cheerleader for the American Way. :bowser:
#37
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Posted 29 September 2004 - 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Ditto
Why, oh WHY don't we have concentration camps for these kinds of people?!
Better question: Why hasn't anybody taken a shot at him?
#38
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Posted 29 September 2004 - 05:39 PM
Know your audience, man. You just slammed at least half of us.He's a God**** SOCIALIST for crying out loud.
Wow. You really do hate America.Why, oh WHY don't we have concentration camps for these kinds of people?!
He IS the American Dream. Born Poor, became rich, spreads dissent, which, as you should know, is the lifeblood of Democracy.He slams the American Dream
We'd love to, you gonna pay for it?Why can't he (and all of his venemous ilk) just move up to Canada and leave America alone?!
No, to prevent you from ever getting any.The reason I'm poor is because the rich in this country are supposedly part of some evil, twisted plot to steal all my money
#39
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Posted 29 September 2004 - 06:16 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Ditto McCloaker+Sep 29 2004, 03:20 PM-->
QUOTE(Ditto McCloaker @ Sep 29 2004, 03:20 PM)
Why, oh WHY don't we have concentration camps for these kinds of people?![/b][/quote]
For the same reason we don't have concentration camps for anyone else.
[quote]Originally posted by Ditto McCloaker@Sep 29 2004, 03:20 PM
He slams the American Dream, criticizes America for standing up for what's right in the world, says we're all bad... Argh, liberals like that drive me up the freaking wall. Why can't he (and all of his venemous ilk) just move up to Canada and leave America alone?![/quote]
Ah. The American Dream. To be held down in abject poverty because for me to move up, someone has to come down.
And yes lets stand up for what is right. Lets go lie to the world. And when they call us out for it lets ignore them. Then lets go get rid of a guy that is really only a threat to himself just because it makes us feel big. Why? Because it is the right thing to do.
Why should we leave?
For the same reason we don't have concentration camps for anyone else.
[quote]Originally posted by Ditto McCloaker@Sep 29 2004, 03:20 PM
He slams the American Dream, criticizes America for standing up for what's right in the world, says we're all bad... Argh, liberals like that drive me up the freaking wall. Why can't he (and all of his venemous ilk) just move up to Canada and leave America alone?![/quote]
Ah. The American Dream. To be held down in abject poverty because for me to move up, someone has to come down.
And yes lets stand up for what is right. Lets go lie to the world. And when they call us out for it lets ignore them. Then lets go get rid of a guy that is really only a threat to himself just because it makes us feel big. Why? Because it is the right thing to do.
Why should we leave?
#40
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Posted 29 September 2004 - 06:21 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Alak+-->
QUOTE(Alak)
We'd love to, you gonna pay for it?[/b][/quote]
I'm sure Moore can. He, being the model socialist, made 100 grand off his movie, and instead of donating it to the 9/11 families, he's kept it for himself.
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Murderers: Thousands of proletarians are murderered, primarially through war, by the ruling class.
Bigots: Thanks to descriminatory economic and legal policies instituted by the only ones who can, the rich, the average income of a black man in the United States hasn't changed since 1880. Whites, 80% of the nation, don't even make half of our prison inmates.
Scumbags: This one's easy: The one who works eight hours a day in a factory is the manufactorer, not the guy who owns him. The worker deservers the profits of his labor.
So, there you have it. Respond as you will. See? Free Speech. American Values. Something you've regected.
#52
Do you even know what a socialist is? I think you're confusing Socialists with Communists and Communists with Soviets. They're not the same. Our country, the United Kingdom, is currently run by the socialist, Labour Party. (Although they're actually starting to look very conversative compared to the other socialist and liberal parties).
Yes, it does have similarities to Communism, but Socialist generally means Capitalism with a Conscience. Providing a safety net to prevent the poor from falling further. Giving them the basics needed to help themselves.
America is not the best system in the world. Economically, sure, it's the best. Pollution, yeah, if you count producing the most pollution in the world the best. Health care? Nah. There are many other countries like Sweden that have better health care systems.
Gun crime? Many countries have lower rates in gun crime than the US. Take Canada to your north for example. Nearly just as many guns, but not as much gun crime.
You're thinking of free-loaders, those who are generally lazy and could pay for something themselves if they tried.
I'm sure it isn't, because the chances are that you aren't poor, but even then it is people's responsibility to give other people money. When you pay for something, you are responsible for giving somebody else money. When you go somewhere, you have to pay money.
So what of these people who really can't get a job, because they had poor education which resulted in them not getting the qualifications needed for a decent job? They're the masses. They're the faceless ones who are no different from the other.
If I was an employer, why should I employ them if they have no advantages whatsoever? I wouldn't. So they won't have a job or get a really low-paying menial job like cashier.
Little money. Not enough for a decent college education to help them rise up out of poverty.
What kind of pie are you talking about? An expanding pie? If you start up a company, yes, you will take people into employment. But you will only take those with decent qualifications in, as I explained earlier. If you're lower class, the chances of you having decent qualifications are low. You will be overlooked for someone from the middle class.
Yes, but did he have Weapons of Mass Destruction as we claimed he had? We went to war on a lie. If we had said, "we're going to war to get rid of Saddam", then I'd have no problem with it. But we didn't. We said he had this and he had that, but he never had any of it. The only WMDs were the ones we brought with us to bomb the Hell out of him, and even then they aren't considered WMDs because they're conventional weapons (even though they do cause mass destruction).
Do I need to cite Guatemala, Chile (I think it was Chile) and... well, I can't remember the others. You can see references to them if you look on Google, typing in CIA +Blowback.
We understand that perfectly. This isn't about murderers and bigots and scumbags, though. We're all against them. We're against those who would run our country down into the ground (Well, I'm British, so it's not my country but your country has a big affect on ours), those who would lie to us, who would send our own people off to die for a cause that turned out not to be a cause which lowers our reputation amongs the rest of the world...
If we didn't understand that, I supposed us Liberals would want to release all the people in prison. Seeing as we don't, I think we do understand that.
The Japanese understood you, though, when they bombed Pearl Harbor. You see, they bombed Pearl Harbor for a few reasons, two of which were:
1. In retaliation for economic sanctions the US put on them.
2. Because the Japanese realised they'd have to fight the US sooner or later, so they struck first or pre-emptively.
Oh yes, wasn't striking the US pre-emptively a good idea? They ended up getting a taste of the world's first nuclear weapons and ended up getting radiation poisoning. What a wonderful idea they had.
Seeing as the Socialists don't have much of a foothold in your country, I don't even think it would make much of a difference. You think you Americans know what left wing is? You Americans DON'T HAVE a left wing. If you had, you'd have a National Health System or something similar to it.
True, but they won't get rich.
Take for example here in the UK. There are loads of millionaires now, compared to earlier years. But their money is all locked up in property. They cannot spend this money. They're only millionaires on paper. If the housing market crashes, they'll lose everything.
If they're taxed like a millionaire is, they'll lose everything. I guess though, property isn't working hard, so you can't really count that as an example.
Still, because of these people who buy extra properties and then rent them, poor people can no longer buy their own homes. The technically rich are benefiting (but not really that much) over the poor. Wonderful. I wonder if there's something similar over there in the US?
Uh... when Jesus said,
Off Topic: Out of interest, this source says that the original Greek version doesn't say camel, but instead has Jesus saying, rope. http://www.angelfire...oughneedle.html.
Buddha also stated something about how rich men were destined to go to Hell, unless of course they gave away their riches to those more needy.
Wealth is only a cure, if you distribute it to those who need it, like Socrates said:
There is also the Buddhist story of how a rich woman refused to give alms to those who needed it (it was actually Buddhist monks) and was cursed to reside in one of the lower levels of Hell after her death.
EDIT: I aplogise for the state of my post. I have no idea why the Quote tags aren't working and have tried to edit it many a time, only for it to come out like this again and again. I shall check my settings and try to make it easier for you guys to read.
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I'm sure Moore can. He, being the model socialist, made 100 grand off his movie, and instead of donating it to the 9/11 families, he's kept it for himself.
#41
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Posted 29 September 2004 - 06:37 PM
And what other film maker gives away the money made off a movie?
#42
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Posted 29 September 2004 - 07:09 PM
Actually, he did give great sums of it away to various liberal, democratic, and green (Note the lower-case, very non-partisan, except the "hating Republicans" bit). The easiest example of this is spendmikestaxcut.com.I'm sure Moore can. He, being the model socialist, made 100 grand off his movie, and instead of donating it to the 9/11 families, he's kept it for himself.
#43
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Posted 29 September 2004 - 08:51 PM
So he gave some of his money to politicians?
Glad to see that cash went to good use. Feeding the capitalists with more money... priceless!
Glad to see that cash went to good use. Feeding the capitalists with more money... priceless!
#44
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Posted 29 September 2004 - 09:03 PM
Not politicians, organizations. Those are usually a lot of poor idealists (Example: me in ten years, unless, god forbid, something goes right), beacked by a rich liberal who ignores the fact their slogan is "Kill Whitey."
Yeah, he's rich. Yeah, it's wrong. But his job isn't to change the world, he's too old for that. He's supposed to make us do that.
Yeah, he's rich. Yeah, it's wrong. But his job isn't to change the world, he's too old for that. He's supposed to make us do that.
#45
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Posted 29 September 2004 - 09:05 PM
Alak, any hippie mentioning "The Man" is spouting a conspiracy theory- that's the rule. You should know that.
#46
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Posted 29 September 2004 - 09:08 PM
Naw, that's a misconception! "The Man" is a symbol, not an undisclosed specific- like "Terrorists."
#47
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Posted 29 September 2004 - 11:02 PM
Know your audience, man. You just slammed at least half of us.
Please don't put yourselves down. You have to be really depraved and/or stupid to be Socialist.
He IS the American Dream. Born Poor, became rich, spreads dissent, which, as you should know, is the lifeblood of Democracy.
Spreading lies and fighting the best system in the world is most certainly not the lifeblood of Democracy.
We'd love to, you gonna pay for it?
Ah, Socialists. Always wanting someone else to pay their way...
No, to prevent you from ever getting any.
Uh... it's not anybody else's responsibility to give me money.
Ah. The American Dream. To be held down in abject poverty because for me to move up, someone has to come down.
I can't believe I'm still hearing this. The educational system is a total failure. They're just not explaining capitalism anymore. Look, when I take a piece of the pie, the pie gets bigger. If I start up a company and provide a good or service, I'm taking several people up with me, I'm making something available to the people, possibly at a lower price than they had before, and others only go down if their good or service is of no use to ANYBODY, which is again, a good thing. It frees them to do something else.
And yes lets stand up for what is right. Lets go lie to the world. And when they call us out for it lets ignore them.
Ah, you're referring to the Oil For Food Program. Now I know what you're talking about.
Then lets go get rid of a guy that is really only a threat to himself just because it makes us feel big. Why? Because it is the right thing to do.
I don't know what you're referring to. The last dirtbag we dealt with murdered millions of his own citizens, fired at our planes over the No-Fly Zone, headed a gangster family responsible for the repression and torture of millions of peopledidn't comply with the U.N. inspections when sources from around the world agreed his actions were unlawfully evasive and suspect.
Said actions rendering his credibility down to absolute zero for any intellectually honest person. Ah, but still, in this world, there remain the so-called intellectuals, who are so sophisticated and far-seeing, they realize that the person stepping out of line to stop the murderer is the loathsome ruffian, a dangerous loose-cannon. I think some people are actually attracted to backwards or counter-intuitive logic, because it sounds so sophisticated and intellectual.
Liberals need to understand: The bad people in the world are the murderers, the bigots, the scumbags. Nobody else is responsible for their actions, and the only way to handle them is to stand up to them. I know it makes you sound all intellectual to place the blame on something else, and I know they turn up their noses at anything that sounds simple and logical, because it doesn't satisfy their lust for theories that are counterintuitive and esoteric, but the world isn't always like that. Sometimes the bad guys are really the people murdering innocents.
Why should we leave?
Think of the competitive advantage our country would have if we got rid of all the Socialists. Especially over the poor sap country that got them. :XD:
It's just too bad people can work their ass off their whole life and get nothing to show for it.
Oh, please. If a person works hard and uses their head (this is important as well, now!), it would take a freak accidenet for him to end up with nothing.
'Cuz you're cramping our style. Word.
You're a ninja, dude.
Yeah, he's rich. Yeah, it's wrong. But his job isn't to change the world, he's too old for that. He's supposed to make us do that.
What the heck?! Wealth is WRONG?! When the Hades did the world go psycho and THAT happen?!
Wealth is the cure for poverty. This basic fact has eluded economists for hundreds of years.
Please don't put yourselves down. You have to be really depraved and/or stupid to be Socialist.
He IS the American Dream. Born Poor, became rich, spreads dissent, which, as you should know, is the lifeblood of Democracy.
Spreading lies and fighting the best system in the world is most certainly not the lifeblood of Democracy.
We'd love to, you gonna pay for it?
Ah, Socialists. Always wanting someone else to pay their way...
No, to prevent you from ever getting any.
Uh... it's not anybody else's responsibility to give me money.
Ah. The American Dream. To be held down in abject poverty because for me to move up, someone has to come down.
I can't believe I'm still hearing this. The educational system is a total failure. They're just not explaining capitalism anymore. Look, when I take a piece of the pie, the pie gets bigger. If I start up a company and provide a good or service, I'm taking several people up with me, I'm making something available to the people, possibly at a lower price than they had before, and others only go down if their good or service is of no use to ANYBODY, which is again, a good thing. It frees them to do something else.
And yes lets stand up for what is right. Lets go lie to the world. And when they call us out for it lets ignore them.
Ah, you're referring to the Oil For Food Program. Now I know what you're talking about.
Then lets go get rid of a guy that is really only a threat to himself just because it makes us feel big. Why? Because it is the right thing to do.
I don't know what you're referring to. The last dirtbag we dealt with murdered millions of his own citizens, fired at our planes over the No-Fly Zone, headed a gangster family responsible for the repression and torture of millions of peopledidn't comply with the U.N. inspections when sources from around the world agreed his actions were unlawfully evasive and suspect.
Said actions rendering his credibility down to absolute zero for any intellectually honest person. Ah, but still, in this world, there remain the so-called intellectuals, who are so sophisticated and far-seeing, they realize that the person stepping out of line to stop the murderer is the loathsome ruffian, a dangerous loose-cannon. I think some people are actually attracted to backwards or counter-intuitive logic, because it sounds so sophisticated and intellectual.
Liberals need to understand: The bad people in the world are the murderers, the bigots, the scumbags. Nobody else is responsible for their actions, and the only way to handle them is to stand up to them. I know it makes you sound all intellectual to place the blame on something else, and I know they turn up their noses at anything that sounds simple and logical, because it doesn't satisfy their lust for theories that are counterintuitive and esoteric, but the world isn't always like that. Sometimes the bad guys are really the people murdering innocents.
Why should we leave?
Think of the competitive advantage our country would have if we got rid of all the Socialists. Especially over the poor sap country that got them. :XD:
It's just too bad people can work their ass off their whole life and get nothing to show for it.
Oh, please. If a person works hard and uses their head (this is important as well, now!), it would take a freak accidenet for him to end up with nothing.
'Cuz you're cramping our style. Word.
You're a ninja, dude.
Yeah, he's rich. Yeah, it's wrong. But his job isn't to change the world, he's too old for that. He's supposed to make us do that.
What the heck?! Wealth is WRONG?! When the Hades did the world go psycho and THAT happen?!
Wealth is the cure for poverty. This basic fact has eluded economists for hundreds of years.
#48
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Posted 30 September 2004 - 12:35 AM
[quote]Originally posted by Ditto McCloaker+Sep 29 2004, 11:02 PM-->
QUOTE(Ditto McCloaker @ Sep 29 2004, 11:02 PM)
Spreading lies and fighting the best system in the world is most certainly not the lifeblood of Democracy.
[/b][/quote]
Since you're up on insulting my intelligence, just what did they teach you about our two party system school. The whole point is for one side to oppose the other so the minority doesn't get trampled. Debate IS the lifeblood of democracy.
[quote]Originally posted by Ditto McCloaker@Sep 29 2004, 11:02 PM
I can't believe I'm still hearing this. The educational system is a total failure. They're just not explaining capitalism anymore. Look, when I take a piece of the pie, the pie gets bigger. If I start up a company and provide a good or service, I'm taking several people up with me, I'm making something available to the people, possibly at a lower price than they had before, and others only go down if their good or service is of no use to ANYBODY, which is again, a good thing. It frees them to do something else.
[/quote]
Oh great. Those several people get too work long hours for minimum wage. Gee...thanks.
[/b][/quote]
Since you're up on insulting my intelligence, just what did they teach you about our two party system school. The whole point is for one side to oppose the other so the minority doesn't get trampled. Debate IS the lifeblood of democracy.
[quote]Originally posted by Ditto McCloaker@Sep 29 2004, 11:02 PM
I can't believe I'm still hearing this. The educational system is a total failure. They're just not explaining capitalism anymore. Look, when I take a piece of the pie, the pie gets bigger. If I start up a company and provide a good or service, I'm taking several people up with me, I'm making something available to the people, possibly at a lower price than they had before, and others only go down if their good or service is of no use to ANYBODY, which is again, a good thing. It frees them to do something else.
[/quote]
Oh great. Those several people get too work long hours for minimum wage. Gee...thanks.
#49
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Posted 30 September 2004 - 12:54 AM
I have great respect for Michael Moore. He's someone who isn't afraid of putting himself out there to get something done. Yes, he likes to stir up trouble, but that is the only way to get your opinions listened to in this age.
#50
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Posted 30 September 2004 - 01:03 AM
Good point. I would say that Bush is a biggot for being all anti-homosexual and all. Lets stand up against him.Originally posted by Ditto McCloaker@Sep 29 2004, 08:02 PM
Liberals need to understand: The bad people in the world are the murderers, the bigots, the scumbags. Nobody else is responsible for their actions, and the only way to handle them is to stand up to them.
#51
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Posted 30 September 2004 - 08:05 AM
Um, not even close, comrade. Check- First Amendment.Spreading lies and fighting the best system in the world is most certainly not the lifeblood of Democracy.
Nope, it's equal distribution. For you to be wealthy, someone else has to be poor. Unless everyone's wealthy, in which case it's now COMMUNISM! (w00t)Yeah, he's rich. Yeah, it's wrong. But his job isn't to change the world, he's too old for that. He's supposed to make us do that.
What the heck?! Wealth is WRONG?! When the Hades did the world go psycho and THAT happen?! post-43-1095212365.gif
Wealth is the cure for poverty. This basic fact has eluded economists for hundreds of years.
How very uncivil of you. I'll ignore that, though. Now, I could say the same of you, in fact, I think I have. http://alakhriveion....capitalism.htmlPlease don't put yourselves down. You have to be really depraved and/or stupid to be Socialist.
The capitalist class? I agree! Here, each of your Points of Evil:Liberals need to understand: The bad people in the world are the murderers, the bigots, the scumbags. Nobody else is responsible for their actions, and the only way to handle them is to stand up to them. I know it makes you sound all intellectual to place the blame on something else, and I know they turn up their noses at anything that sounds simple and logical, because it doesn't satisfy their lust for theories that are counterintuitive and esoteric, but the world isn't always like that. Sometimes the bad guys are really the people murdering innocents.
Murderers: Thousands of proletarians are murderered, primarially through war, by the ruling class.
Bigots: Thanks to descriminatory economic and legal policies instituted by the only ones who can, the rich, the average income of a black man in the United States hasn't changed since 1880. Whites, 80% of the nation, don't even make half of our prison inmates.
Scumbags: This one's easy: The one who works eight hours a day in a factory is the manufactorer, not the guy who owns him. The worker deservers the profits of his labor.
So, there you have it. Respond as you will. See? Free Speech. American Values. Something you've regected.
#52
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Posted 30 September 2004 - 08:24 AM
Know your audience, man. You just slammed at least half of us.
Please don't put yourselves down. You have to be really depraved and/or stupid to be Socialist.
Do you even know what a socialist is? I think you're confusing Socialists with Communists and Communists with Soviets. They're not the same. Our country, the United Kingdom, is currently run by the socialist, Labour Party. (Although they're actually starting to look very conversative compared to the other socialist and liberal parties).
so·cial·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ssh-lzm)
n.
1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.
Yes, it does have similarities to Communism, but Socialist generally means Capitalism with a Conscience. Providing a safety net to prevent the poor from falling further. Giving them the basics needed to help themselves.
He IS the American Dream. Born Poor, became rich, spreads dissent, which, as you should know, is the lifeblood of Democracy.
Spreading lies and fighting the best system in the world is most certainly not the lifeblood of Democracy.
America is not the best system in the world. Economically, sure, it's the best. Pollution, yeah, if you count producing the most pollution in the world the best. Health care? Nah. There are many other countries like Sweden that have better health care systems.
Gun crime? Many countries have lower rates in gun crime than the US. Take Canada to your north for example. Nearly just as many guns, but not as much gun crime.
We'd love to, you gonna pay for it?
Ah, Socialists. Always wanting someone else to pay their way...
You're thinking of free-loaders, those who are generally lazy and could pay for something themselves if they tried.
No, to prevent you from ever getting any.
Uh... it's not anybody else's responsibility to give me money.
I'm sure it isn't, because the chances are that you aren't poor, but even then it is people's responsibility to give other people money. When you pay for something, you are responsible for giving somebody else money. When you go somewhere, you have to pay money.
So what of these people who really can't get a job, because they had poor education which resulted in them not getting the qualifications needed for a decent job? They're the masses. They're the faceless ones who are no different from the other.
If I was an employer, why should I employ them if they have no advantages whatsoever? I wouldn't. So they won't have a job or get a really low-paying menial job like cashier.
Little money. Not enough for a decent college education to help them rise up out of poverty.
Ah. The American Dream. To be held down in abject poverty because for me to move up, someone has to come down.
I can't believe I'm still hearing this. The educational system is a total failure. They're just not explaining capitalism anymore. Look, when I take a piece of the pie, the pie gets bigger. If I start up a company and provide a good or service, I'm taking several people up with me, I'm making something available to the people, possibly at a lower price than they had before, and others only go down if their good or service is of no use to ANYBODY, which is again, a good thing. It frees them to do something else.
What kind of pie are you talking about? An expanding pie? If you start up a company, yes, you will take people into employment. But you will only take those with decent qualifications in, as I explained earlier. If you're lower class, the chances of you having decent qualifications are low. You will be overlooked for someone from the middle class.
Then lets go get rid of a guy that is really only a threat to himself just because it makes us feel big. Why? Because it is the right thing to do.
I don't know what you're referring to. The last dirtbag we dealt with murdered millions of his own citizens, fired at our planes over the No-Fly Zone, headed a gangster family responsible for the repression and torture of millions of people didn't comply with the U.N. inspections when sources from around the world agreed his actions were unlawfully evasive and suspect.
Yes, but did he have Weapons of Mass Destruction as we claimed he had? We went to war on a lie. If we had said, "we're going to war to get rid of Saddam", then I'd have no problem with it. But we didn't. We said he had this and he had that, but he never had any of it. The only WMDs were the ones we brought with us to bomb the Hell out of him, and even then they aren't considered WMDs because they're conventional weapons (even though they do cause mass destruction).
Yet somehow America managed to get rid of regimes in Central America and South America without even going to war with them. The only casualities were those that were caught in the civil wars, which I guess is good for Americans, bad for those who wer there.Said actions rendering his credibility down to absolute zero for any intellectually honest person. Ah, but still, in this world, there remain the so-called intellectuals, who are so sophisticated and far-seeing, they realize that the person stepping out of line to stop the murderer is the loathsome ruffian, a dangerous loose-cannon. I think some people are actually attracted to backwards or counter-intuitive logic, because it sounds so sophisticated and intellectual.
Do I need to cite Guatemala, Chile (I think it was Chile) and... well, I can't remember the others. You can see references to them if you look on Google, typing in CIA +Blowback.
Liberals need to understand: The bad people in the world are the murderers, the bigots, the scumbags.
We understand that perfectly. This isn't about murderers and bigots and scumbags, though. We're all against them. We're against those who would run our country down into the ground (Well, I'm British, so it's not my country but your country has a big affect on ours), those who would lie to us, who would send our own people off to die for a cause that turned out not to be a cause which lowers our reputation amongs the rest of the world...
If we didn't understand that, I supposed us Liberals would want to release all the people in prison. Seeing as we don't, I think we do understand that.
The world is always complicated and very few things are clear cut, or black and white.Nobody else is responsible for their actions, and the only way to handle them is to stand up to them. I know it makes you sound all intellectual to place the blame on something else, and I know they turn up their noses at anything that sounds simple and logical, because it doesn't satisfy their lust for theories that are counterintuitive and esoteric, but the world isn't always like that. Sometimes the bad guys are really the people murdering innocents.
The Japanese understood you, though, when they bombed Pearl Harbor. You see, they bombed Pearl Harbor for a few reasons, two of which were:
1. In retaliation for economic sanctions the US put on them.
2. Because the Japanese realised they'd have to fight the US sooner or later, so they struck first or pre-emptively.
Oh yes, wasn't striking the US pre-emptively a good idea? They ended up getting a taste of the world's first nuclear weapons and ended up getting radiation poisoning. What a wonderful idea they had.
Why should we leave?
Think of the competitive advantage our country would have if we got rid of all the Socialists. Especially over the poor sap country that got them. :XD:
Seeing as the Socialists don't have much of a foothold in your country, I don't even think it would make much of a difference. You think you Americans know what left wing is? You Americans DON'T HAVE a left wing. If you had, you'd have a National Health System or something similar to it.
It's just too bad people can work their ass off their whole life and get nothing to show for it.
Oh, please. If a person works hard and uses their head (this is important as well, now!), it would take a freak accidenet for him to end up with nothing.
True, but they won't get rich.
Take for example here in the UK. There are loads of millionaires now, compared to earlier years. But their money is all locked up in property. They cannot spend this money. They're only millionaires on paper. If the housing market crashes, they'll lose everything.
If they're taxed like a millionaire is, they'll lose everything. I guess though, property isn't working hard, so you can't really count that as an example.
Still, because of these people who buy extra properties and then rent them, poor people can no longer buy their own homes. The technically rich are benefiting (but not really that much) over the poor. Wonderful. I wonder if there's something similar over there in the US?
Yeah, he's rich. Yeah, it's wrong. But his job isn't to change the world, he's too old for that. He's supposed to make us do that.
What the heck?! Wealth is WRONG?! When the Hades did the world go psycho and THAT happen?!
Wealth is the cure for poverty. This basic fact has eluded economists for hundreds of years.
Uh... when Jesus said,
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
(Matthew 19:24)
Off Topic: Out of interest, this source says that the original Greek version doesn't say camel, but instead has Jesus saying, rope. http://www.angelfire...oughneedle.html.
Buddha also stated something about how rich men were destined to go to Hell, unless of course they gave away their riches to those more needy.
Wealth is only a cure, if you distribute it to those who need it, like Socrates said:
If a rich man is proud of his wealth, he should not be praised until it is known how he employs it.
There is also the Buddhist story of how a rich woman refused to give alms to those who needed it (it was actually Buddhist monks) and was cursed to reside in one of the lower levels of Hell after her death.
EDIT: I aplogise for the state of my post. I have no idea why the Quote tags aren't working and have tried to edit it many a time, only for it to come out like this again and again. I shall check my settings and try to make it easier for you guys to read.
#53
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Posted 30 September 2004 - 08:29 AM
Yeah, because of the official ban on all communist activities and the decades of police-based Union-busting...You Americans DON'T HAVE a left wing.
#54
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Posted 30 September 2004 - 03:52 PM
I'd respond to a few passages that Wolf made... but I'm way too lazy.
Anyways, yah, I agree that "Moore is not unlike a liberal version of Ann Coulter." In my eyes, they're equal in terms of destroying intelligent discourse. Moore can speak about Bush all he darn well likes, but he's not going to win the majority of people over by calling the leader of the other side an idiot. Same with Coulter.
Anyways, yah, I agree that "Moore is not unlike a liberal version of Ann Coulter." In my eyes, they're equal in terms of destroying intelligent discourse. Moore can speak about Bush all he darn well likes, but he's not going to win the majority of people over by calling the leader of the other side an idiot. Same with Coulter.
#55
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Posted 30 September 2004 - 04:09 PM
But Moore can back up his claims, Coulter can't. He says "The President sat still for almost ten minutes," She says "Democrats are part of a huge communist conspiracy to corrupt the minds of our children so they can be sacrificed to Satan."
#56
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Posted 30 September 2004 - 05:46 PM
"Moore can back up his claims."
Moore makes many false claims, and many true ones. But there are a great deal of both. He's gotten his facts wrong on many occasions, and they are quite systematically recorded by the anti-moorists. Simply put, I don't see the man as a beacon of truth. And, heck, I must admit that I do have more respect for him than Coulter. It's not that I'd like him to be unbiased or anything, I think I've stated my opinion on bias before, but I think that it's far more constructive if you assert your opinions in a manor in which people can actively discuss them without attacking each other ruthlessly on purely personal levels. Moore, or Coulter and any number of other hard-core pundits, don't seem to really care at all about this, it's always about personal insults.
I can respect someone no matter what their political beliefs. Of course, I'll engage them on it (eg. communism
) but I'm not going to call them an "idiot" or a "moron" for it. I'm going to tell them why I disagree with a particular doctorine, and give them an opportunity to respond, as long as they show the same courtesy that I attempt to show them. It took me quite a long time to realize that this is far more beneficial than just attacking people personally, but I'm glad that I finally did realize it.
Moore makes many false claims, and many true ones. But there are a great deal of both. He's gotten his facts wrong on many occasions, and they are quite systematically recorded by the anti-moorists. Simply put, I don't see the man as a beacon of truth. And, heck, I must admit that I do have more respect for him than Coulter. It's not that I'd like him to be unbiased or anything, I think I've stated my opinion on bias before, but I think that it's far more constructive if you assert your opinions in a manor in which people can actively discuss them without attacking each other ruthlessly on purely personal levels. Moore, or Coulter and any number of other hard-core pundits, don't seem to really care at all about this, it's always about personal insults.
I can respect someone no matter what their political beliefs. Of course, I'll engage them on it (eg. communism
) but I'm not going to call them an "idiot" or a "moron" for it. I'm going to tell them why I disagree with a particular doctorine, and give them an opportunity to respond, as long as they show the same courtesy that I attempt to show them. It took me quite a long time to realize that this is far more beneficial than just attacking people personally, but I'm glad that I finally did realize it.
#57
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Posted 30 September 2004 - 06:45 PM
Systematically recorded... no-one has found a falsehood in Fahrenhiet 9/11 that wasn't answered on Moore's website. A full citation and back-up will be released on October Fifth, responding also to claims anticipated, but not made. "Fahrenheit 9/11 Reader." "Bowling for Columbine" wasn't attacked on better grounds than the fact it was liberal, "Roger and Me" has liberal implications, but is objective, and none of his books are being contested.
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Posted 30 September 2004 - 10:34 PM
Ugh, I was going to type up a post here, but I'm desperately short on time at the moment, so I'm going to have to delay an adequate response until atleast tomorrow. I would just like to say though, that this truly isn't a black and white situation. It's not like Moore is actually lying everytime he speaks, and I think I showed that I don't hold that opinion. However, he does make some extremely questionable statements, much like the current President at times. So, I'll try to respond fully tomorrow, with something of some substance, instead of just restating my opinion, heh...
#59
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Posted 30 September 2004 - 10:38 PM
Hmmm. As long as we're talking "Immenent threat," and not "WMD," that's fair enough.However, he does make some extremely questionable statements, much like the current President at times.
#60
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 03:34 PM
D'aaaaaaaargh!
I lost my post! *sob sob* I had been working on it for nearly an hour!
And the pile of stuff to reply to it just getting higher and higher, like a bad game of Tetris. D'aaargh...
Um, Hero of Winds? My other fellow conservatives (if you're out there?) Somebody wanna help this? Even part of it? All this rampant Socialist nonsense shouldn't go uncountered. These people need HELP.
Gauntlet Announcer Voice: Red Socialists Need Help Badly! Green Conservative Is About To Die!
I lost my post! *sob sob* I had been working on it for nearly an hour!
And the pile of stuff to reply to it just getting higher and higher, like a bad game of Tetris. D'aaargh...
Um, Hero of Winds? My other fellow conservatives (if you're out there?) Somebody wanna help this? Even part of it? All this rampant Socialist nonsense shouldn't go uncountered. These people need HELP.
Gauntlet Announcer Voice: Red Socialists Need Help Badly! Green Conservative Is About To Die!
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