130 replies to this topic

[Wolf O'Donnell]

I depends on the overall theory of time travel. OoT throughout the game tends to use a 'fixed' theory, in that as soon as Link awakens, everything he WILL go back to the past and do (such as playing the Song of Storms) has already happened. Meaning that time cannot be changed, and whenever he goes back in time he is just doing what he is destined to do.

Scientifically this seems to be the most logical explanation of what would happen in time travel. Doesn't necessarily mean a work of fiction will use this method, but many do.

No, scientifically the multiple Universe hypothesis makes more sense.

The fixed hypothesis in essence gets rid of the notion of free will and gives birth to predetermination, which is undesirable and contrary to quantum physics, where chaos rules supreme.

[Hero of Slime]

I depends on the overall theory of time travel. OoT throughout the game tends to use a 'fixed' theory, in that as soon as Link awakens, everything he WILL go back to the past and do (such as playing the Song of Storms) has already happened.

OoT also uses the other Time Travel Theory. Where somthing in the future is not there the first time and Link must go back to the past and change it.

[mohammedali]

Infinite number of Links?  No.  Just two.  Who says the old Link 'chills' out?  We know for a fact he doesn't.  He leaves to search for Navi.  And if we take that quest as the story mentioned at the start of WW, he doesn't return.  The other Link awakens, does some stuff for a few days, beats Ganon, then vanishes.  There, one Link left, and he probably doesn't come back anyway.

Firstly, we see Link at the end of MM in the same woods the game starts at, so we know he came back. But let's just assume he doesn't for arguements sake. The other Link who was stuck in the SR becomes old enough to fight Ganon and wins. He then gets sent back to the past by Zelda. Are you telling me that he ALSO goes to Termina? This is obviously an infinite event. It doesn't work Fyxe.

Firstly, what's so weird about her looking through a window?  Maybe she was witnessing Impa telling her father what has happened.  Who knows.  It doesn't matter.  Also, living their 'happily' is speculation, we have no idea what those months were like.  We DO know from the ALttP backstory that it takes awhile for Ganon to take over the Sacred Realm, get the Triforce and build up an army.  According to OoT, it takes under a year, but a few months is a reasonable time.

So why is she waiting in the castle? It doesn't make sence for her to be waiting in such a place. Also, if the King is told about what is going to happen, then the future will be drastically changed - no doubt about it. The only reason she would be there is if 1) Ganon didn't strike in the first place, or 2) He's no longer a threat. For her to go back when we know she didn't doesn't make sence.

We KNOW it can't go back to an earlier instance because as I have already said, Link needs to lay the Master Sword to rest and close the Door of Time.  If he was sent back sooner he would appear, presumably without the Master Sword somewhere else.  The reason she uses the Ocarina is because she can.  Why bother trekking to the Temple of Time if she can just send him back using her powers?  Also, quite simply from a game design standpoint it makes for a more dramatic ending if Zelda sends him back herself.

lol. So she's using her sage powers to save Link from WALKING? That's stupid. Link could have gone back to a point just before lifting the sword, but I personally don't buy that either. Most likely that he can't go back due to the seal being placed and he can't interfere with it.

Unfortunately, this is fanfic.  Why should the seal somehow traverse time?  The Master Sword is a vessel through which Link travels through time, it doesn't somehow mean a magical seal will do the same.  And if it did, you mean that Ganon would be sealed by the Seven Sages twice?  But somehow he escapes fairly easily the first time (in fact, there's no talk about him not being able to find his way out, I don't know where you got that from) and then needs to do a whole Maiden sacrifice thing the second time?  It just doesn't make sense.

Actually it makes perfect sence if you listen to what I am saying. The MS is a vessel that allows time manipulation both upstream and downstream. If a seal is cast to the SR using the MS, that should theoretically hold for both the future and past, same reason Link can travel to both. That seal would stop Ganon getting back in the past (allowing Zelda to live peacefully when she younger), this would lead to aLttP. In the aftermath of Adult Link's OoT, we have WW occuring in the future.

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

Firstly, we see Link at the end of MM in the same woods the game starts at, so we know he came back. But let's just assume he doesn't for arguements sake. The other Link who was stuck in the SR becomes old enough to fight Ganon and wins. He then gets sent back to the past by Zelda. Are you telling me that he ALSO goes to Termina? This is obviously an infinite event. It doesn't work Fyxe.

Firstly, we don't ever see Link actually return to Hyrule, he's still searching for Navi.

Anyway, I don't know why it doesn't work, I have no idea what you're talking about. From Link's perspective...

- Link enters the Sacred Realm and is sealed for seven years.
- Link awakens, defeats Ganon and Zelda sends him back in time. After a few months he goes to search for Navi.
- In seven years, his PAST self wakes up, beats Ganon, then goes back in time.
- Time moves on like normal. No 'infinite event'.

So why is she waiting in the castle? It doesn't make sence for her to be waiting in such a place. Also, if the King is told about what is going to happen, then the future will be drastically changed - no doubt about it. The only reason she would be there is if 1) Ganon didn't strike in the first place, or 2) He's no longer a threat. For her to go back when we know she didn't doesn't make sence.

Ganon was after them. But once he turns around and goes to the Sacred Realm, what's the point of them staying in hiding wherever they are? Assuming Ganon is building his power in the Sacred Realm for a few months, what good is it for them to hide? Without the Ocarina they have nothing to protect, other than their lives, and they can probably protect more lives if they go back and warn people. And the future wouldn't necessarily be changed, they wouldn't be able to defeat Ganon anyway. And he might not even believe them. He seemed to put trust in Ganondorf, remember? There's nothing to say there was no warning in the future of OoT. Just that Ganon won.

lol. So she's using her sage powers to save Link from WALKING? That's stupid. Link could have gone back to a point just before lifting the sword, but I personally don't buy that either. Most likely that he can't go back due to the seal being placed and he can't interfere with it.

Like I said, it was mainly for dramatic effect. We shouldn't assume the method of time travel would suddenly create a split if all the other methods didn't.

Actually it makes perfect sence if you listen to what I am saying. The MS is a vessel that allows time manipulation both upstream and downstream. If a seal is cast to the SR using the MS, that should theoretically hold for both the future and past, same reason Link can travel to both. That seal would stop Ganon getting back in the past (allowing Zelda to live peacefully when she younger), this would lead to aLttP. In the aftermath of Adult Link's OoT, we have WW occuring in the future.

But the seal wasn't cast using the Master Sword. Ganon was defeated with the Master Sword which weakened him enough so the sages were able to use their magic on him.

And just because Link goes back in time, why would that cause the seal to occur? The sword hasn't hit Ganondorf in the past, Ganon hasn't had the seal cast on him. There's no reason why sticking it in the pedistal would seal him.

Anyway, even if we take a jump and assume this DID happen, why would that lead to ALttP? The IW wouldn't even exist.

[Billy Goat]

I really hope I'm not breaking up the discussion.

By the way, the scene is NOT the same as when they first met.  Link has the Triforce of Courage, Link was much closer when Zelda turned around the first time around.

Ah, I fogot Link returns with the triforce of courage... Fyxe may be up to something.

I don't mean to argue against my own theory, but...

If Link returns with the triforce of courage, and then sealed the entrance to the sacred realm with the Master sword, then Ganon would not be able to get the triforce, and Link would be able to tell Zelda of Ganon's plans, then he leaves and the triforce of courage is split into eight. Then Ganon is sealed and the TWW backstory and TWW happens.

After that, the whole triforce stays in the sunken Hyrule and Ganon manages to get it all for himself, like in Lttp. And the Imprisoning war may in fact be in the TWW backstory, when it says Ganon was sealed.

This theory makes some sense exept for a few things.

Why would Zelda be waiting in the castle at the encing of Oot, as Ali said, if they are being chased?

In a sigle timline theory ( which is really the child timeline ), how would people know that "The Hero of Time" saved Hyrule with "The blade of Evil's bane" if Link never even touched Ganon when he was a child, and he could not grab the Master sword any more if it was sealed. So basicaly, how was Ganon sealed in Oot and in TWW backstory? And how could he even come back, if he did not have any power at all, unless he had the triforce of power.

[Mad Scrub]

Originally Posted by germanlink
If Link returns with the triforce of courage, and then sealed the entrance to the sacred realm with the Master sword, then Ganon would not be able to get the triforce, and Link would be able to tell Zelda of Ganon's plans, then he leaves and the triforce of courage is split into eight. Then Ganon is sealed and the TWW backstory and TWW happens.

Unless of course Link is returned to a point in time where Ganondorf has already entered the Sacred Realm. With the Master Sword back in the Pedestal of Time and the Door of Time closed, the gateway to the Sacred Realm would be sealed along with Ganondorf and the ToP.

[Billy Goat]

Not to be mean, but I would not do anything with Tp until it actually comes out.

And Link returns to a point in which Ganon has not entered the sacred realm, otherwise hyrule would be dark . Link most likely returns to the time where he first met Zelda as Ali said.

And your post does not really answer how the people knew that the "hero of time" uses the "Blade of evil's bane".

[Mad Scrub]

Originally Posted by germanlink
Not to be meanbut I would not do anything with Tp until it actually comes out.

Are you referring to my signature or did you misread my post? ToP stands for Triforce of Power.

Originally Posted by germanlink
And Link returns to a point in which Ganon has not entered the sacred realm, otherwise it would be dark.

What do you mean by dark? Do you mean dark as in dark and gloomy or dark as in night time?

Originally Posted by germanlink
And your post does not really answer how the people knew that the "hero of time" uses the "Blade of evil's bane".

When I try to answer peoples questions I will quote the question before answering it. I didn't know the answer to that question so I didn't quote it in my post.

[Billy Goat]

Right sorry about all of that, silly me...I did misread your post.

If ganon gets the triforce of power, what happens to the triforce of wisdom? Link returns with the triforce of courage but the game never says anything about zelda.

Can you prove Ganon being sealed in the sacred realm ( Not trying to sound smart or anything, just asking).

And I meant dark as in gloomy and evil, like the future in Oot, ganon was able to do that with the whole triforce.

[Mad Scrub]

Originally Posted by germanlink
If ganon gets the triforce of power, what happens to the triforce of wisdom? Link returns with the triforce of courage but the game never says anything about zelda.

Your right it doesn't. However don't forget that Tetra had a fragment of the ToW in TWW and so did the King. The Royal Family must have been in possession of the ToW.

Originally Posted by germanlink
Can you prove Ganon being sealed in the sacred realm ( Not trying to sound smart or anything, just asking).

No I can't.

Originally Posted by germanlink
And I meant dark as in gloomy and evil, like the future in Oot, ganon was able to do that with the whole triforce.

The minute Ganondorf touched the Triforce it split into three pieces, Courage, Wisdom and Power. Ganondorf never possessed the whole Triforce in OoT only the ToP. I don't think that Hyrule would've changed so dramatically within such a short period of time.

[Billy Goat]

Hmmm... maybe, but how did the royal family take possetion of the Triforce of wisdom?

And I guess Hyrule can't be changed so quickly.

You said you can't prove anything and although my theory makes more sense ( to me) there is no way I can't prove anything either.

[Mad Scrub]

Originally Posted by germanlink
Hmmm... maybe, but how did the royal family take possetion of the Triforce of wisdom?

Although OoT mentions nothing about the whereabouts of the ToW the possibility that it did go to Zelda is always there.

BTW here's a game script FAQ for TMC.
http://www.gamefaqs....ame/920670.html

[Octorok]

You said you can't prove anything and although my theory makes more sense ( to me) there is no way I can't prove anything either.

Not a whole lot of "proving" goes on in Zelda Storyline.

Scrub, we have the same timeline, if you take TP out.

[Hero of Slime]

I'm not sure about the OoT ending. I only know what happened with the Triforce based on what I know from TWW.
My current timeline is the same as Octo's and Mad Scrub's, but as you know from my past timelines I think a split timeline would be possible.

Ah, I fogot Link returns with the triforce of courage... Fyxe may be up to something.

It is true, but what if the action Link does to cause the split happens after we see him with the Triforce of Courage?

[Fyxe]

Hold it, hold it. Any talk of a split occuring *after* the ending is just fanfic for the sake of personal timelines.

Unless of course Link is returned to a point in time where Ganondorf has already entered the Sacred Realm. With the Master Sword back in the Pedestal of Time and the Door of Time closed, the gateway to the Sacred Realm would be sealed along with Ganondorf and the ToP.

Uh, not really. If this were the case Link could of just done that immediately, voila, no more Ganon problem.

And if that had occured, it totally screws with the backstories of WW and ALttP.

Look, Ganon needs to be defeated by the Blade of Evil's Bane and have extremely powerful magic cast on him by the mystical Seven Sages. I think a sword in a pedistal and a strone door aren't nearly enough to hold him. We don't even know if replacing the Master Sword would indeed stop Ganondorf in the slightest, there's nothing to suggest it closes the gateway from the Sacred Realm back to Hyrule.

Anyway, it's quite simple to explain how Zelda ends up with the ToW. Link is sent back with his piece after Ganondorf has entered the Sacred Realm. Ganon gets his piece, and the final piece goes to Zelda.

Link leaves Hyrule, then Ganon attacks Hyrule, the future events happen, then Wind Waker happens.

[Billy Goat]

Link leaves Hyrule, then Ganon attacks Hyrule, the future events happen, then Wind Waker happens.

Okay, TWW backstory says that "The Hero of time" defeats Ganon with the "Blade of Evil's bane". How could Link even defeat Ganon in the firstplace if he could not even touch the Master sword, he did not even touch Ganon at all when he was a child.

And how could Ganon return and attack Hyrule if it never says he was defeated in the past?

[Octorok]

he did not even touch Ganon at all when he was a child.

He didn't need to. Ganon attacks, and Link stops him after time travelling forward.

And how could Ganon return and attack Hyrule if it never says he was defeated in the past?

I assume that you are referring to TWW backstory. Like I said, Link, as a child, time travels forward, and in the elapsed time, Ganon attacks. Link defeats Ganon, then goes back in time. Once he's back, MM happens. Meanwhile, back in Hyrule, Ganon attacks. After seven years, he is defeated by adult Link.

Hopefully that answers your question.

[Fyxe]

What are you talking about? Let me explain this slowly.

Link, after returning from the future, leeeeaaaaves Hyrule. With me so far?

Ganon, who is not defeated in the past, attacks Hyrule.

In seven years, the version of Link that was in limbo in the Sacred Realm wakes up, defeats Ganon, then gets sent back in time.

Then the backstory of Wind Waker happens then Wind Waker itself happens.

Fairly simple stuff.

[Octorok]

Were you talking to me or Germanlink? Because that's essentialy what I said, or meant to say, if you couldn't understand the meaning. I probably could've made it simpler, but I didn't.

[Fyxe]

I was talking to germanlink, you posted after I had started typing.

[Tri-Enforcer]

What are you talking about? Let me explain this slowly.

Link, after returning from the future, leeeeaaaaves Hyrule. With me so far?

Ganon, who is not defeated in the past, attacks Hyrule.

In seven years, the version of Link that was in limbo in the Sacred Realm wakes up, defeats Ganon, then gets sent back in time.

Then the backstory of Wind Waker happens then Wind Waker itself happens.

Fairly simple stuff.

It's simple and I understand it. However that would create a loop. The version of Link that's stuck in "limbo", sleeping in the Sacred Realm, will keep awakening to defeat Ganon...then sent back into the past over and over again. The whole point of Zelda sending Link back to his "original" time was so he that didn't have to go through all this time displacement. According to you there's two Links, one is in Limbo doing the same thing over and over, while the other goes off to Termina. I don't buy it.

[Octorok]

I was talking to germanlink, you posted after I had started typing.

Alright, just making sure.

According to you there's two Links

There's nothing wrong with the idea of having multiple links at the same time.

[MikePetersSucks]

And Link's mainly travelling in spirit anyway, and the Link in Limbo would have a Master Sword as well.

[Tri-Enforcer]

Alright, hust making sure.There's nothing wrong with the idea of having multiple links at the same time.

Nothing wrong at all, you can go by whatever you think is right. I just don't agree with it. When Zelda sent Link back, she sent him back to his "original" time as a sage she said she's able to do so with the Ocarina. She didn't want him to miss out on the 7 year that he lost, she even said that tampering with the Scared Realm was her mistake. So now she's correcting it--so no need for another Link to live in limbo doing the same thing over and over.

[Fyxe]

It's simple and I understand it. However that would create a loop. The version of Link that's stuck in "limbo", sleeping in the Sacred Realm, will keep awakening to defeat Ganon...then sent back into the past over and over again. The whole point of Zelda sending Link back to his "original" time was so he that didn't have to go through all this time displacement. According to you there's two Links, one is in Limbo doing the same thing over and over, while the other goes off to Termina. I don't buy it.

No no no no no.

From Link's perspective...

He draws the Master Sword, is in limbo for seven years, he wakes up, beats Ganon, goes back in time and does whatever he wants (and MM happens).

He's not in a loop. One of those Links you mentioned is NOT doing it over and over. He does it once and gets on with his life.

This really isn't that hard to understand, I don't know why you're not getting it.

[Tri-Enforcer]

No no no no no.

From Link's perspective...

He draws the Master Sword, is in limbo for seven years, he wakes up, beats Ganon, goes back in time and does whatever he wants (and MM happens).

He's not in a loop. One of those Links you mentioned is NOT doing it over and over. He does it once and gets on with his life.

This really isn't that hard to understand, I don't know why you're not getting it.

That's not quite how you out it:

What are you talking about? Let me explain this slowly.
Link, after returning from the future, leeeeaaaaves Hyrule. With me so far?
Ganon, who is not defeated in the past, attacks Hyrule.
In seven years, the version of Link that was in limbo in the Sacred Realm wakes up, defeats Ganon, then gets sent back in time.
Then the backstory of Wind Waker happens then Wind Waker itself happens.
Fairly simple stuff.

Let me get this straight after Link defeats Ganon in the future (what we see in OOT the game itself), he is sent back into the past. Now...is Ganon still around in the past? According to your above quote he is. Also you go on to say that Link goes off to Termina, but then u mention "the version of Link that was in limbo" comes back 7 years later to defeat Ganon...that where u lose me at (I think that's it, heck where did I lose u at?). If Link is going back into the past and doesn't pull the sword, then how could be sleep again to wake up in seven years?

[Octorok]

Now...is Ganon still around in the past? According to your above quote he is.

Exactly, he's still in the past. He will continue to exist in Hyrule until Link seals him in the SR later on. At the end of the game, when Link goes back in time (and then to MM) All the events in the future that were affected by Link, will happen.

[Billy Goat]

Whoa, I think I kind of get it, but as tri-enforcer said, if Link is going back into the past and he never pulls the sword, then how could be sleep again to wake up in seven years?

And how can he even come out if the connection between the timilines was sealed by Zelda? What you are saying is that Link returns to hyrule by just going there ( he returns with Navi after finding her?) , when in Oot, he returns by coming out of the seal...but how could he come out of the seal if it was completely sealed by Zelda and it was sealed IN THE PAST.

[Octorok]

Evidently, you are completely clueless to what Fyxe and I have explained to you numerous times, so I'll go over it again.

Link goes forward in time, and defeats Ganon. When he's done with that, he goes back in time, and leaves Hyrule. In the process of time travelling, another Link is created, and while one Link is in MM, the other perpetuates the cycle of defeating Ganon in the future, until seven years elapse, thus ending the cycle.

[Billy Goat]

Yes I get what you are saying now.

Still, while one Link is in MM, another comes out and defeats Ganon ( past ganon) in the future then he goes back and ends the cycle?

How can the second Link even come out if the seal in the temple of time was closed, he would not be able to exit it, since it was closed by zelda in the first place.