130 replies to this topic

[Billy Goat]

Ummm... Hi guys, I don't know if this point has been brought up before, so I appologize if it has.




Here is my timeline theory


Oot Backsory>> Oot>>>>MM >>Lttp>> LA>> OoS>> OoA>> LoZ>> AoL----child time line

^ here, the timeline splits into two, Ganon is sealed away>>TWW>> FS>> FsA------adult timeline



Okay, here, I'll give some facts to support my theory: the great Hero of time never shows up in TWW because he was sent back to his own time,
and the imprisoning war happens in the child time line because Link never fights ganon in the past, only in the future.
Ganon takes the triforce in the past land he is imprisoned in the Dark world with all of it.
In the adult time line, the triforce gets split into eight while Link is about to be sent to his own time( I have no way to prove this).

I don't really know, where to put TMC, I think it goes before Oot, but I'm still not too sure.

Alright here is my theory, disscuss it and prove me wrong, and help me with some facts too.

Oh yeah, I could put Tp somewhere in there, but I'm still confused if I should since I'm not too sure...

[Hero of Slime]

It Works.

Why did you put FS and FSA in the Adult timeline?

[Billy Goat]

It Works.

Why did you put FS and FSA in the Adult timeline?

I don't know really, those games are in their own league, although... now that I think about it, they should be in the child timeline, since Ganon was not really sealed in TWW, he was KILLED...was he?

[Hero of Slime]

At the end of TWW ganon was turned to stone. No one knows if he was killed or not.

[D~N]

for your purposes, you can say what you want about ganon's death without calling it fanfiction. good job, i se no error.....which means someone else will of course....

[Billy Goat]

Thanks Dark~nut! But since I'm not too sure about the placement of Tp, I'm not assuming anything, since if it was before TWW, the whole backstory would have to be rewritten and if it was after TWW, Ganon would have to be sealed for him to come back.

I've never really played TMC, so could somone tell me where it could go?

[Hero of Slime]

Minish Cap is a prequel to Four Swords, so MC should be somewhere before FS.

[Billy Goat]

Oh, thanks. Do any of you know of any place where I can find the whole storyline for TMC?

[FDL]

I don't really agree with split timelines. Perhaps TP will have enough proof that I'll like 'em better, though I doubt it.

[Octorok]

I don't like split timelines either, because one would expect time to flow normally in the series, as in life.

[mohammedali]

I think split-timelines are the best. Not only do you resolve WW and aLttP being sequals to the same game without one being after the other, but it also means the ending makes much more sence IMO.

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

I find the ending makes no sense if there's a split. Neither does the whole game. Link spends the whole game saving a future that doesn't actually happen anyway? Why doesn't it happen? Why would a split occur, what has Link done to cause a split?

[mohammedali]

I find the ending makes no sense if there's a split.  Neither does the whole game.  Link spends the whole game saving a future that doesn't actually happen anyway?  Why doesn't it happen?  Why would a split occur, what has Link done to cause a split?

The first couple of questions is what one should ask single timeline theorists. Why would Link save the Adult world if by going back in time it's never going to occur? What a waste of time.
In a split timeline it is obvious that after Link saves the Adult Universe, that world goes on and live happily (until they need Link again, and it's flooded), and in Child Universe Link would live out his days, and eventually aLttP would occur.
As for why a split would occur, it's simple. Adult Universe continues to exist after Link is sent back using Zeldas magic, and Child Link's universe is still there when Link gets back, but is completely different to Adult Universe. This split could have occured when Link used the MS for the first time, but I recon it was actually created because Zelda sent Link back into the past. That's the most logical reprecusion of the insident. It seems the most obvious conciquence of the ending IMHO.

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

Hold it, that's not right. Single timeline theorists don't speculate that the future world doesn't occur. Most don't anyway. The way time seems to work in OoT suggest it's an inevitable event that can only be stopped when Link is old enough to be the Hero of Time.

[mohammedali]

Hold it, that's not right.  Single timeline theorists don't speculate that the future world doesn't occur.  Most don't anyway.  The way time seems to work in OoT suggest it's an inevitable event that can only be stopped when Link is old enough to be the Hero of Time.

So what happens when Link goes back into the past?

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

He does what Zelda tells him to do. He closes the Door of Time, thus closing the connection between past and future. Then he lives out his seven years he missed like Zelda asked him to. He appears to spend some time with Zelda, then he goes to search for Navi, and thus Majora's Mask happens.

[mohammedali]

He does what Zelda tells him to do.  He closes the Door of Time, thus closing the connection between past and future.  Then he lives out his seven years he missed like Zelda asked him to.  He appears to spend some time with Zelda, then he goes to search for Navi, and thus Majora's Mask happens.

So what happened to Ganon? He doesn't to seem to be much of a threat. Zelda is still in the castle (as seem in MM), and they are carrying on without worry. What happened?

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

Who said they're carrying on without worry? We can assume Ganon doesn't attack immediately (for at least a few months or so), security is probably insanely tight still, but most people don't actually know what's happened, just Link and Zelda (and Impa).

Zelda and Impa presumably return to the castle once they're aware that Ganon is in the Scared Realm. They may persuade people to prepare for the coming attack (preparations that would obviously fail), or they may be unable and thus begin the whole Shiek thing before it occurs.

[mohammedali]

Who said they're carrying on without worry?  We can assume Ganon doesn't attack immediately (for at least a few months or so), security is probably insanely tight still, but most people don't actually know what's happened, just Link and Zelda (and Impa).

Man, there's so many flaws in what you're saying. Firstly, at the point in time you are talking about, we already have a Link waiting in the SR. Now we have ANOTHER Link coming back to spend time in the past as well? If 2 Link's isn't bad enough, there is also the problem of Zelda sending each of these entrapped Links back into the past to 'relive their lost years'. Also, the entire future of Hyrule is now completly different. With there being a Link that's a child in Hyrule, we can see that things aren't going to go as they would before. Hence why the hell did Link bother saving a world that wouldn't come to be?

Zelda and Impa presumably return to the castle once they're aware that Ganon is in the Scared Realm.  They may persuade people to prepare for the coming attack (preparations that would obviously fail), or they may be unable and thus begin the whole Shiek thing before it occurs.

Zelda says she fled the castle after that day 7 years ago and went into hiding. It's obvious she didn't go back. Why did she decide to wait there? What is she looking for in the window? Seems like too much of a coincidence that the scene is exactly the same as when they first met. Also, it seems a bit lame that they are going to just 'let it all happen'. I'm sorry, but this reasoning makes absolutely no sence. It's flawed on so many different levels.

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

Ok, seriously, what the hell is wrong with two Links existing in one point in time? It's TIME TRAVEL. That's what happens. It's not like it even matters, one of them is sealed in the Sacred Realm for seven years not even experiencing anything. That's not a reasonable complaint.

Also, WHY would the future be any different since child Link goes back? Throughout the game he's gone back in time a number of occasions and fulfilled fate by playing the Song of Storms and getting items and such. That's just doing what he's already done.

It's just logical time travel. I'll use my usual example of how it works...

One day you notice something is missing in your room. You can't find it anywhere, it's very confusing, but eventually you forget about it.
In the future, you discover time travel. You go back in time and end up in your room. You see the item that vanished. You grab it and go back to the future.

It's a paradox, yes, but that's what would happen. And that's what happens in OoT with items such as the Silver Guantlets.

By the way, the scene is NOT the same as when they first met. Link has the Triforce of Courage, Link was much closer when Zelda turned around the first time around.

It may not make any sense to you, but it makes even less sense for Link to come back before Ganondorf goes to the Sacred Realm. Firstly, when he returns he needs to place the Master Sword back and close the Door of Time. Zelda tells him to. This means it HAS to be after he first drew the sword. There's no way the Master Sword would be removed or the Door of Time would be open otherwise.
There's nothing to suggest that the final instance of time travel should be any different from the other times.

Finally, they *have* to let it happen. That was the whole *point* of Link being sealed for seven years, because he's not old enough to be the Hero of Time. He can't use the Master Sword as a child and he would just get killed by Ganon if he fought him. Ganon would then get the Triforce of Courage and proceed to become more powerful than ever.

How could anything happen any differently? What do you think happens? Where does Ganon go, does he just give up? Does he suddenly find it impossible to escape the Sacred Realm? Does the Sage's Seal traverse time for some reason (oh the fanfic...)?

[Billy Goat]

I want to agree with mohammedali on his points.

As for why the FS games being in the adult timeline question, it's because they don't use reference to the master sword, as it was sealed in the flooded hyrule after ganon's defeat in TWW.

[MikePetersSucks]

I want to agree with mohammedali on his points.

I'll stick with Fyxe. That's afterall, what I believe before this argument happened.

As for why the FS games being in the adult timeline question, it's because they don't use reference to the master sword, as it was sealed in the flooded hyrule after ganon's defeat in TWW.

Then I guess LOZ, AOL, LA, and MM should be in the Adult timeline too? I'm sorry, but the absence of a sword that's only been in three games doesn't constitute a timeline placement. If you're going to use that kind of logic, then you should put FS and FSA after LTTP for their similar geography to LTTP and the Master Sword sleeping forever quote.

Not to mention that FSA has all sorts of references to LTTP besides geography, like the Knights of Hyrule, the Maidens, the Palace of the Four Sword, and so forth.

Oot Backsory>> Oot>>>>MM >>Lttp>> LA>> OoS>> OoA>> LoZ>> AoL----child time line

^ here, the timeline splits into two, Ganon is sealed away>>TWW>> FS>> FsA------adult timeline

It's alright, but I still hate split timelines. And that's a powerful notion from someone who used to have one.

Ganon takes the triforce in the past land he is imprisoned in the Dark world with all of it.

How does Ganon gain the Triforce in LTTP if he was unworthy for it in OOT? Atleast in a single timeline you can use TWW as an excuse for a maturing King of Evil.

I don't really know, where to put TMC, I think it goes before Oot, but I'm still not too sure.

I won't make the descision for you, just play the game. Even besides the plot, there's little references to help out. It goes before FS-FSA for sure. Some people put it first because it's the origin story for Link's hat or some such. The Light Force could be the source of Zelda's later prophetic power, and some people use it as an origin story for Hyrule's monsters.

[Billy Goat]

As for what was said about the Master sword, It does sleep forever, after Lttp in my timeline, the Master sword is not referenced either, only the Magic sword in LoZ and AoL, and the noble sword in the Oracles.



Well,as how Ganon gains the trifoce in Lttp, he takes it when Link goes off in MM, that's when the imprisoning war happens.

[Octorok]

The MS is in OoX. Where did you put SZ?

[Doopliss]

I think that Zelda sends Link seven years backward at teh end of OoT, then MM happens, he goes seven years forward and then he lives in the future, this explains how a single timeline could work in a neat way; the future is not erased, there's only one Link every time and everything happens exactly as it's said in the game.

Ah, MikePetersSucks, I'm glad to know you've converted, each time there are more of us (just ignore this).

[Fyxe]

That's some convoluted fanfic you've got there, Dooplis. Problems with it being...

People always like to suggest time passes differently in Termina, despite there being absolutely no hint of this and it despite Skull Kid and the Mask Salesman travelling back and forth with no adverse effects. I would suggest losing that theory, it's one of those 'random stuff to make timelines work' theories.

Also Dooplis, there's no way that adult Link can just walk along to the Temple of Time and take over the mantle of his former self, especially since his other self is meant to be sealed in the Sacred Realm anyway. This isn't one of those 'young Link possesses adult Link' theories, is it? Argh, I wish people would use some basis for their theories rather than pulling stuff from thin air.

Seriously, you might as well just use a basic single timeline theory, it would work exactly the same way, just with less fanfic. Also, your theory messes with the ending, because sending Link back in time would just keep him in an endless loop and wouldn't give him his seven years back at all, which was the whole point.

[mohammedali]

Ok, seriously, what the hell is wrong with two Links existing in one point in time?  It's TIME TRAVEL.  That's what happens.  It's not like it even matters, one of them is sealed in the Sacred Realm for seven years not even experiencing anything.  That's not a reasonable complaint.

Are you serious? ok. Firstly, we don't end up having only 2 Links as the Link that was trapped in the SR would also get to relive his past, creating an infinite number of Links. Secondly, the future is now completely different even with just 2 Links. Hence the future that Link saved is completely different as the new future has the old Link chilling out.

Also, WHY would the future be any different since child Link goes back?  Throughout the game he's gone back in time a number of occasions and fulfilled fate by playing the Song of Storms and getting items and such.  That's just doing what he's already done.

But he didn't stay there for 7 years. Surely knowing all that's going on he would want to help. Surely he would seek out Sheik or vice versa. Surely something as monumental as Link witnessing Ganon pillage all of Hyrule is going to have *some* sort of reprecussions. And if he doesn't want to face Ganon till he's older due to what Rauru said, then when the time comes there will be anything from 2 - infinite number of Link's facing off against Ganon. It's crazy.

By the way, the scene is NOT the same as when they first met.  Link has the Triforce of Courage, Link was much closer when Zelda turned around the first time around.

I'm sorry, but I am still very scepical that Zelda and Impa would come back to the castle after they reportedly fled and went into hiding. Not when they know that Ganon is going to destroy the castle and is searching for them. Also, we know they lived there happily for months afterwards. It doesn't make sence in the slightest. And what is Zelda doing? Looking through the window exactly the same way as before. Just doesn't make sence.

It may not make any sense to you, but it makes even less sense for Link to come back before Ganondorf goes to the Sacred Realm.  Firstly, when he returns he needs to place the Master Sword back and close the Door of Time.  Zelda tells him to.  This means it HAS to be after he first drew the sword.  There's no way the Master Sword would be removed or the Door of Time would be open otherwise.
There's nothing to suggest that the final instance of time travel should be any different from the other times.

Firstly, the final instance of time travel is almost *definately* different. Why would Zelda teleport Link to his childhood when just putting the MS down will do the trick. There are only 2 possible reasons. 1, that this timetravel goes back to an even earlier point that the other timetravel couldn't. 2, that it has to do with the seal for some reason. Either are possible, but both suggest a timeline split.

1) If it goes back to an earlier point, and the future of Adult Link never happened, then there would be no point for Link facing Ganon. He could have done that before and all would be exactly the same. However, if there is a split then it makes sence that he needs to save the world as well, as those people will live on.
2) This ties into your last point. You'll find the other explination of why there is a split there.

How could anything happen any differently?  What do you think happens?  Where does Ganon go, does he just give up?  Does he suddenly find it impossible to escape the Sacred Realm?  Does the Sage's Seal traverse time for some reason (oh the fanfic...)?

Coming back to point 2). Note that at the time Child Link is running around Hyrule, Ganon is in the SR. As the MS is not sealed, he can escape. However, when the seal is placed, and the MS is placed, Ganon will not be able to find a way out of the SR (which is also stated in the aLttP BS about Ganon not finding his way out). The reason this works across time is the same reason that Link can be both old and young when ever he wants. It's clear that the MS allows some time manipulation and hence there is no reason this shouldn't work with the sealas well.
This now brings us to the question, why didn't they just seal the passage of time, and not bother with Link killing Ganon in the future world if his past was going to be sealed causing his future to never exist? the only logical explination for saving the future is that Adult Link's universe still exists regardless of what happens in Child Link's universe. This ALSO suggests a timeline split, and resolves that WW/aLttP problem perfectly.

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

Oh boy, here we go again.

Are you serious? ok. Firstly, we don't end up having only 2 Links as the Link that was trapped in the SR would also get to relive his past, creating an infinite number of Links. Secondly, the future is now completely different even with just 2 Links. Hence the future that Link saved is completely different as the new future has the old Link chilling out.

Infinite number of Links? No. Just two. Who says the old Link 'chills' out? We know for a fact he doesn't. He leaves to search for Navi. And if we take that quest as the story mentioned at the start of WW, he doesn't return. The other Link awakens, does some stuff for a few days, beats Ganon, then vanishes. There, one Link left, and he probably doesn't come back anyway.

But he didn't stay there for 7 years. Surely knowing all that's going on he would want to help. Surely he would seek out Sheik or vice versa. Surely something as monumental as Link witnessing Ganon pillage all of Hyrule is going to have *some* sort of reprecussions. And if he doesn't want to face Ganon till he's older due to what Rauru said, then when the time comes there will be anything from 2 -  infinite number of Link's facing off against Ganon. It's crazy.

No, there's only one Master Sword. He leaves to search for Navi, because there's nothing he can do in the meantime. Seriously, there's *nothing he can do*. He learnt this from his adventure; as a child he is weak, he wouldn't be able to stand up to Ganon for a second, and him looking for Shiek would just give away Zelda's identity. He also KNOWS Ganon will be defeated when the time is right. So there's no need for him to do anything.

I'm sorry, but I am still very scepical that Zelda and Impa would come back to the castle after they reportedly fled and went into hiding. Not when they know that Ganon is going to destroy the castle and is searching for them. Also, we know they lived there happily for months afterwards. It doesn't make sence in the slightest. And what is Zelda doing? Looking through the window exactly the same way as before. Just doesn't make sence.

Firstly, what's so weird about her looking through a window? Maybe she was witnessing Impa telling her father what has happened. Who knows. It doesn't matter. Also, living their 'happily' is speculation, we have no idea what those months were like. We DO know from the ALttP backstory that it takes awhile for Ganon to take over the Sacred Realm, get the Triforce and build up an army. According to OoT, it takes under a year, but a few months is a reasonable time.

Firstly, the final instance of time travel is almost *definately* different. Why would Zelda teleport Link to his childhood when just putting the MS down will do the trick. There are only 2 possible reasons. 1, that this timetravel goes back to an even earlier point that the other timetravel couldn't. 2, that it has to do with the seal for some reason. Either are possible, but both suggest a timeline split.

We KNOW it can't go back to an earlier instance because as I have already said, Link needs to lay the Master Sword to rest and close the Door of Time. If he was sent back sooner he would appear, presumably without the Master Sword somewhere else. The reason she uses the Ocarina is because she can. Why bother trekking to the Temple of Time if she can just send him back using her powers? Also, quite simply from a game design standpoint it makes for a more dramatic ending if Zelda sends him back herself.

Coming back to point 2). Note that at the time Child Link is running around Hyrule, Ganon is in the SR. As the MS is not sealed, he can escape. However, when the seal is placed, and the MS is placed, Ganon will not be able to find a way out of the SR (which is also stated in the aLttP BS about Ganon not finding his way out). The reason this works across time is the same reason that Link can be both old and young when ever he wants. It's clear that the MS allows some time manipulation and hence there is no reason this shouldn't work with the sealas well.  
This now brings us to the question, why didn't they just seal the passage of time, and not bother with Link killing Ganon in the future world if his past was going to be sealed causing his future to never exist? the only logical explination for saving the future is that Adult Link's universe still exists regardless of what happens in Child Link's universe. This ALSO suggests a timeline split, and resolves that WW/aLttP problem perfectly.

Unfortunately, this is fanfic. Why should the seal somehow traverse time? The Master Sword is a vessel through which Link travels through time, it doesn't somehow mean a magical seal will do the same. And if it did, you mean that Ganon would be sealed by the Seven Sages twice? But somehow he escapes fairly easily the first time (in fact, there's no talk about him not being able to find his way out, I don't know where you got that from) and then needs to do a whole Maiden sacrifice thing the second time? It just doesn't make sense.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

I hate the term "split timeline", which implies that two timelines are birthed from one. It's a highly misleading term.

In essence, there are only multiple timelines.

It's just that single timeline believers, say that all the games follow into the same timeline. Perhaps, the other timelines are what happens when Link (you) loses. Ganon taking over for good, you know, that sort of thing.

Split timeline is not split timeline. It should be called Two Timeline Hypothesis, in that there are two timelines, both of which have past events that are exactly identical to the other, but have different futures.

The events of OoT cannot be erased, because what is done is done.

Anything with time travel screws up timelines.

[Fyxe]

I depends on the overall theory of time travel. OoT throughout the game tends to use a 'fixed' theory, in that as soon as Link awakens, everything he WILL go back to the past and do (such as playing the Song of Storms) has already happened. Meaning that time cannot be changed, and whenever he goes back in time he is just doing what he is destined to do.

Scientifically this seems to be the most logical explanation of what would happen in time travel. Doesn't necessarily mean a work of fiction will use this method, but many do.