46 replies to this topic

[Crazy Penguin]

No no no no.

Nobody understands time travel.

He wouldn't have the Silver Guantlets when he first awakens, but they would be gone from the Spirit Temple.  He WOULD have the Silver Guantlets when he returns from the past after getting them, because he takes them with him, and it's only after that that he travels to the future with them.

It's a fairly simple concept.

Imagine all the events happening in a linear sense. Where are the Silver Gauntlets when Link first awakens as an adult?

[SOAP]

I meant after >.O

... But I did have it after...

[Fyxe]

Do you believe the items to travel by means of the Sacred Realm?

I believe they travel through time by means of, hey, time travel. Hard to comprehend, I know.

Imagine all the events happening in a linear sense. Where are the Silver Gauntlets when Link first awakens as an adult?

They're not there. They're not in the chest, they're not in the past, they're not in the future. They're in trasit, if you will.

If you're introducing time travel to the events then time is not linear. By no means.

1 - Link gets sealed in the Sacred Realm.
2 - Link returns, then goes back to the future with the Lens of Truth.
3 - Link returns again, then goes back with the Silver Guantlets.
4 - Link returns for a final time and closes the Door of Time.

A - Link first awakens.
B - Link goes back in time, then returns with the Lens of Truth.
C - Again, but with the Silver Guantlets.
D - Zelda sends Link back.

It's that simple.

[SOAP]

Hey guys, it could still be a loop since the gauntlets are already missing in the future. Link just hasn't physically started becoming part of that loop just yet. He had already acquired and that's why they're gone but the Link that we're playing as hasn't yet caught up that part of the loop. Same thing with the well. The first time around, we know Link couldn't have possibly have had anything do with it because we've played as him and we know he hasn't done anything of the sort. But the effects are already there. Link just hasn't gone into the past to cause them yet. It's very interesting how in OoT we see [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of the effects before the actions that cause them... In fact I'd imagine the whole game is mostly a series of smaller loops as opposed to one big loop where everything has already happenedthe first time around.

Oh Gawd! There I go making things unneccesarily complicated again. Hamburgers!

[Doopliss]

I believe they travel through time by means of, hey, time travel. Hard to comprehend, I know.



They're not there. They're not in the chest, they're not in the past, they're not in the future. They're in trasit, if you will.

If you're introducing time travel to the events then time is not linear. By no means.

1 - Link gets sealed in the Sacred Realm.
2 - Link returns, then goes back to the future with the Lens of Truth.
3 - Link returns again, then goes back with the Silver Guantlets.
4 - Link returns for a final time and closes the Door of Time.

A - Link first awakens.
B - Link goes back in time, then returns with the Lens of Truth.
C - Again, but with the Silver Guantlets.
D - Zelda sends Link back.

It's that simple.

Really good job, Fyxe, couldn't have explained it better.

Some time ago I thought about a theory that says that adult Link's and young Link's minds change places when adult Link travels to the past. I mean, adult Link puts the Master Sword in the pedestal, then his mind goes to the part, and young Link's mind goes to the future, but he stays uncounscious, then Link takes the Master Sword from the pedestal and his mind returns to the future, then young Link's mind returns to the past. This explains why Link doesn't remember what his body did while he was uncoscious.

[Crazy Penguin]

They're not there.  They're not in the chest, they're not in the past, they're not in the future.  They're in trasit, if you will.

Where is this "transit" mentioned in-game?

[MikePetersSucks]

Some time ago I thought about a theory that says that adult Link's and young Link's minds change places when adult Link travels to the past. I mean, adult Link puts the Master Sword in the pedestal, then his mind goes to the part, and young Link's mind goes to the future, but he stays uncounscious, then Link takes the Master Sword from the pedestal and his mind returns to the future, then young Link's mind returns to the past. This explains why Link doesn't remember what his body did while he was uncoscious.

That's because he didn't DO anything while he was unconscious. He was just that. Unconscious. In a magical coma.

[Fyxe]

Where is this "transit" mentioned in-game?

It isn't, it doesn't need to be, it's just how time travel would work.

Simple example.

One day something goes missing from your house. You have no idea where it went, it's just gone. Annoying.

Some time in the future you discover time travel. You go back in time, you end up in your own house, you see the item that went missing. You take it before you go back to the future.

With me so far?

Now where is the item in between the time when it vanishes and the future when you get it back?

It's not there, is it?

It's 'in transit', although technically that's a misnomer. It's not moving from one place to another, it's not taking time to move, because it's merely travelling through time.

It's really not very hard.

[Doopliss]

That's because he didn't DO anything while he was unconscious. He was just that. Unconscious. In a magical coma.

Yup, but two Links can't exist at the same time, so this solves the problem. Plus, if it was the "same Link", he would know the Song of Storms when he awake for the first time.

[Crazy Penguin]

It isn't, it doesn't need to be, it's just how time travel would work.

Simple example.

One day something goes missing from your house.  You have no idea where it went, it's just gone.  Annoying.

Some time in the future you discover time travel.  You go back in time, you end up in your own house, you see the item that went missing.  You take it before you go back to the future.

With me so far?

Now where is the item in between the time when it vanishes and the future when you get it back?

It's not there, is it?

It's 'in transit', although technically that's a misnomer.  It's not moving from one place to another, it's not taking time to move, because it's merely travelling through time.

It's really not very hard.

That would work, but Link never really time travels into the future, he just goes to sleep.

[Fatgoron]

Sleeping for seven years is basically travelling through time a a rate of 1 second, relative to every 1 scond passing around you.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Mind switching would thus mean no time travel. It still doesn't mean that the paradoxes aren't there.

Time travel implies paradoxes and thus having a single timeline becomes illogical and incomphensible.

Face it. Time travel destroys single timelines, especially so in the case of Majora's Mask which introduces more paradoxes and OoA, which introduces the worst time paradoxes of all the three games that involve time travel.

[Doopliss]

That would work, but Link never really time travels into the future, he just goes to sleep.

Actually that's what Rauru implies.

[Fyxe]

That would work, but Link never really time travels into the future, he just goes to sleep.

No, his spirit is sealed (effectly goes to sleep, anyway) the FIRST time he removes the Master Sword.

However, the rest of his travelling back and forth is basic time travel. The game never says otherwise. It just says that the Master Sword is a 'vessel' through which Link can move through time. It wouldn't make any real sense any other way, because then we end up with many, many Links sealed in the Sacred Realm. Overly complex, and Link only awakens in the Sacred Realm once. The other occasions he just moves from the past to the future in the Temple of Time. Thus, time travel.

It's called the Temple of Time for a reason, afterall.

Time travel implies paradoxes and thus having a single timeline becomes illogical and incomphensible.

Face it. Time travel destroys single timelines, especially so in the case of Majora's Mask which introduces more paradoxes and OoA, which introduces the worst time paradoxes of all the three games that involve time travel.

Actually, we're only looking at OoT. In OoT, there are no paradoxes. Everything fits. In fact, it appears physically impossible for a paradox that causes a split to happen in OoT. The Song of Storms sequence is in itself a paradox but that doesn't mean it causes a split. It just means it messes with your head. That's what time travel is like, however. Time is not linear.

In MM, the Goddess of Time is involved. That and the whole game implies a degree of time manipulation rather than simple time travel.

As for OoA... Well. Lets save that for another topic, but again it involves the Oracle of Age's magical powers, rather than just time travel on a basic scale. Her powers presumably give her a similar ability to manipulate time, which is why Veran wanted to possess her rather than just steal her harp thingie.

[Crazy Penguin]

No, his spirit is sealed (effectly goes to sleep, anyway) the FIRST time he removes the Master Sword.

However, the rest of his travelling back and forth is basic time travel.  The game never says otherwise.

It's because it never says otherwise that we should assume it is the same process as the first time.

[Doopliss]

But it would be even more illogical because there would exist two Links at the same time.

[Hylian Diety]

It's because it never says otherwise that we should assume it is the same process as the first time.

Ehhh, can't agree with that statement. Gonna have to go with Fyxe on this one. Sheik says herself that Link TRAVELS time. I think Fyxe even gave a quote to help prove that point.

I'm not saying I know more about time-travel here, because really, none of us do. However, I am stating that in OoT, Link DOES use time travel to get from past to future in a short period of time.