135 replies to this topic

[arunma]

For added moderative support: everyone get back on topic. So yeah, I intended for this thread to be my opportunity (and that of other Christians) to debunk myths about the Bible.

So, anyone want to tell me that Jesus preached tolerance for other religions?

[Nevermind]

Not necessarily other religions. But other people. Forget the religions, focus on the humans. That's what he taught tolerance for; the people.

[arunma]

Not necessarily other religions. But other people. Forget the religions, focus on the humans. That's what he taught tolerance for; the people.

Actually, he didn't teach tolerance of any kind. He taught that we must love all other people, which means that we must wish for the best even towards our enemies. But he did not teach us to love other religions. And that's important, because many other people, including a lot of Hindus and a few Buddhists, wish to force Jesus into some sort of polytheistic pantheon of false, pagan gods. They wish to portray Jesus as someone who would approve of the worship of other gods. That mischaracterization is dishonest, which is why I feel the need to disprove these claims.

[Nevermind]

Yeah, but disliking the religion has nothing to do with the person themselves. Hate the sin, not the sinner, kind of thing. Do you dislike a Hindu because he is Hindu?

And the Christian church isn't doing a much better job of representing Jesus either. Otherwise there would be no animosity whatsoever, both towards other denominations, other deviations, and people of other religions. Not the religions themselves, but the people contained within.

[arunma]

Lazurukeel, I think you're addressing an entirely separate issue. Everyone agrees that people shouldn't hate each other. My point is that it is right for Christians to intellectually oppose false religions, and to use arguments to combat the mischaracterization of Jesus.

Besides that, I think the church does a much better job of portraying Jesus than, say, the Buddhists.

[Fyxe]

You can't say he preached tolerance and love... Except when it comes to other religions, who are all going to burn in hell.

That's just bloody stupid.

You're certainly not being very open-minded or tolerant at all. According to you, all other religions are false. What you believe isn't only just something you believe, but something that is a true fact proven by your own faith, and all other religions are false.

And what's with this eeeevil PAGAN GODS thing? You do know that Pagans weren't demonic Satanists as many Christain groups portray them, right?

[Nevermind]

Well the fact of the matter is that according to ANY religious person, all other religions are false. It doesn't matter which religion you are coming from.

The other fact is that yes they are putting Jesus into the wrong spotlight, however it is the exact same thing that we are doing to their Buddha, or their Mohammed, or whatever. You may able to argue against them and tell them what Jesus really is, yes, but then they too can argue against you and tell you what Buddha really is. You can convince them as much as they can convince you.

The best you can hope for is that you at least understand what is right by your religion. And yes, because I am of a different religion from them, I will think they are wrong as much as they will think I am wrong, but from my standpoint, that is a judgement reserved for God, and it is something that I cannot alter.

[arunma]

You can't say he preached tolerance and love... Except when it comes to other religions, who are all going to burn in hell.

That's just bloody stupid.

Wait a minute. It's very clever to say "tolerance and love," but tolerence and love aren't two coupled concepts; they're different things. One can be tolerant but not loving (or vice versa). Jesus did preach love, but he did not preach tolerance. If he did, you're free to search the Gospel and epistles to show me.

As for the second part of that statement, saying that man's spiritual state condemns him to hell is not in itself a condemnation. How easy it is to use the phrase "burn in hell," which carries a clear negative connotation. But there's nothing bad or evil about warning humanity that its way of life is a clear path to destruction. If God didn't offer redemption from this fate in Christ, would you be any happier?

You're certainly not being very open-minded or tolerant at all. According to you, all other religions are false.

No, I'm not open-minded in the area of religion. And yes, I do think that all other religions are false. Please tell me why you find it virtuous to believe that other religions are true?

What you believe isn't only just something you believe, but something that is a true fact proven by your own faith, and all other religions are false.

That statement didnt' make much sense. Care to rephrase?

And what's with this eeeevil PAGAN GODS thing? You do know that Pagans weren't demonic Satanists as many Christain groups portray them, right?

A belief doesn't have to be overtly satanic to be antithetical to the will and word of God. Christians hold the Law of Moses, the Psalms of David, Israel's prophetic writings, the Gospels, and the writings of the apostles to be the word of God. And according to these Scriptures, all other religions and gods are false. Deny the Bible if you wish, but to say that it can be reconciled with false religions is dishonest.

If I may cite a few examples, there are people (whom I've spoken with) who believe that Jesus traveled to the far East to learn about Buddhism. There are still others who believe that Jesus traveled to India to learn about Hinduism, and that he taught Israel to worship the false god Krishna. The evidence for these claims is wanting, yet people believe these conspiracy theories over an honest and critical reading of the Bible. If for no other reason than intellectual honesty, don't you oppose this too?

Well the fact of the matter is that according to ANY religious person, all other religions are false. It doesn't matter which religion you are coming from.

That's not entirely true. Buddhists and Jews believe that other religions can be equal paths to the divine. Hindus believe thta all religions are a subset of Hinduism. In fact, some Muslims believe that the leaders of other religions were prophets of God whose messages culminated in the preaching of Mohammed. While the Qur'an focuses on the Biblical prophets of Israel and on Jesus Christ, it does mention that there are thousands of unnamed prophets. So I suppose that Christianity and mainstream Islam are the only religions that claim uniqueness in this sense.

[Nevermind]

Yeah but what I meant was that Buddhists do not believe that Jesus was the son of God, Jews do not believe that the Buddha is the all-holy being, etc.

Hindus believe that all religions are a subset of Hinduism, which means that they're in the mentality that Hinduism is still the correct one. Buddhists believe that other religions can be alternate paths to the divinity that is contained within Buddhism, not Christianity, or Judaism, etc. What I'm meaning to say is that you won't find a Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Jew, Hindu, whatever, who believes that the other religions outside its own are satisfactorily correct on their own terms.

[Korhend]

And what's with this eeeevil PAGAN GODS thing? You do know that Pagans weren't demonic Satanists as many Christain groups portray them, right?

Really, you know what the most important Pagan in modern history is?

[arunma]

Really, you know what the most important Pagan in modern history is?

I'm dying to know. Do tell.

[Korhend]

What does Korhend turn everything into a discussion on?

[Nevermind]

Toothcomb mustaches?

[Fyxe]

Right, yeah, and Hitler never got the wrong idea about *anything*.

He was a vegetarian too, does that mean all vegetarians are psycho nutjobs? Possibly, but I somewhat doubt it.

[arunma]

He was a vegetarian too, does that mean all vegetarians are psycho nutjobs?

Yes, most of us are psycho nutjobs.

[Korhend]

Yes but he was a vegetarian in his private life, Neo-Paganism was a critical part of his Ideology. This really isn't as much a bashing of pagans as some weird trivia.