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Twilight World = Dark World?


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#1 SwordBreaker

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 03:47 AM

Well you know the first question will come sooner or later, eh? Let's look at the facts:

ALttP's Dark World

1) Changes a person based on his/her personality, a reflection of one's "heart" you may say.

2) The Dark World mirrors the Light World.

3) People went into it because of greed...seaching for the Golden Power, thus suffering the concequences of morphing into other animals/creatures.

4) ALttP's Young Link turned into a bunny when he entered the Dark World without The Moon Pearl.

5) Portals were scattered throughout Hyrule. The Magic Mirror warps Link from Dark World to Light World, leaving a temporary warp portal at point of appearence (in Hyrule of course).



TP's The Twilight World has very similar features to the Dark World.

1) Changes a person into a different creature. It is not known whether it's according to one's personality. However, when IGN's asked Mr. Aonuma regarding WHY Link changes to a wolf when he enters the Twilight World, he said that the wolf suits the personality of a hero.

2) The Twilight World mirrors Hyrule according to Mr. Aonuma.

3) According to IGN's interview with Mr. Anouma, the Twilight World expands by PULLING other humans into it.

4) TP's Link turns into a wolf once he enters the Twilight Zone (lol sorry I just had to insert this parody). I'm sure people will say, "oh no, contradiction here! both ALttP and TP Links are heroes, so why do they turn into different animals? Thus Dark does not equal Twilight! In your face!" Well all I can say is that both Links are heroes but do NOT have the same personality, plus ALttP Link is somewhat young and innocent (he has Young Link's voice in ALttP GBA) and TP Link is an older adult, showing a bit more 'aggressiveness'.

5) Portals suddenly appear from the sky, dispatching enemies. Apparently enemies can summon these portals, yet they're temporary. Also, as you advance in the game, more portals begin to appear. Unlike ALttP's portal, these can forcefully suck other people into it, acting like some sort of vortex.


One and the same? Well I sure think so. Dark World = Twilight World = Sacred Realm.

#2 Fyxe

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 06:23 AM

Lets address your points...

1 - Can't argue with that. Definite similarity there, but that might just be them reusing a good idea.

2 - The Twilight Realm is doing more than mirror Hyrule. Hyrule is slowly being CHANGED into the Twilight Realm. So no, that IS Hyrule, it's not just a mirror.

3 - A bit of a flimsy link between the games, this. Even if they are persuaded by the lure of the Triforce, it's still their choice to go to the Sacred Realm. The suggestion seems to be that the Twilight Realm is absorbing the whole of the world.

4 - A good point you make here. Not all Links are the same. In fact, there's been talk of there being more character development with Link himself this time (although that doesn't mean he'll talk). But, yes, they're different Links, so they would possibly turn into different beings.

5 - The portals seems to behave very differently. These ones in TP seem to be just used by the enemies to travel from... Wherever and attack. The portals in ALttP were one-way portals that connected Hyrule to the Dark World.

There are some similarities, but there are also some major differences at this stage, so lets not jump to conclusions. The Twilight Realm doesn't seem to be in a seperate world, rather it seems it is taking over Hyrule itself.

#3 mohammedali

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 08:17 AM

2 - The Twilight Realm is doing more than mirror Hyrule.  Hyrule is slowly being CHANGED into the Twilight Realm.  So no, that IS Hyrule, it's not just a mirror.

But they start of as seperate. I believe Aonuma-san said that Hyrule Castle and the Dark Castle are seperate, but as the game progresses, Hyrule changes into the Dark Castle. I think, this game will look more at the significance of the Dark World.

It may not be the SR, but if it isn't, I will be deeply annoyed. Why introduce another realm when the SR hasn't been seen for quite some time. Here's hoping.

Mohammed Ali

#4 Tekky

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 08:42 AM

It could well be the Sacred Realm; perhaps this story will tell how Ganon managed to escape from the Sacred Realm; maybe by slowly weaving some spell that turns Hyrule into the Twilight Realm, the Sages Seal weakens...
Although KoRL was quite specific that he didnt know how Ganon had managed to escape from the Sages Seal...
But I admit, I shall be quite annoyed if this is the backstory to TWW, I dont want this to game to end with Hyrule being sealed in time and protected by a barrier while the rest of the kingdom floods, that would be majorly irksome! It would make the whole quest seem to pointless if we knew that Hyrule was just going to get destroyed anyway!

But I really cant wait to play this game now!

#5 mohammedali

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 08:52 AM

It could well be the Sacred Realm; perhaps this story will tell how Ganon managed to escape from the Sacred Realm; maybe by slowly weaving some spell that turns Hyrule into the Twilight Realm, the Sages Seal weakens...  
Although KoRL was quite specific that he didnt know how Ganon had managed to escape from the Sages Seal...
But I admit, I shall be quite annoyed if this is the backstory to TWW, I dont want this to game to end with Hyrule being sealed in time and protected by a barrier while the rest of the kingdom floods, that would be majorly irksome! It would make the whole quest seem to pointless if we knew that Hyrule was just going to get destroyed anyway!

But I really cant wait to play this game now!

But if it's between OoT and WW then it's pointless anyway, as we know Hyrule will soon be flooded, and that if Link didn't do anything in this quest, it's likely that it would have just been flooded sooner. What might be cool instead, is if they explore why it was flooded. i.e. you save Hyrule by summoning the Gods, and sealing Ganon in the flooded Hyrule or whatever.

Mohammed Ali

#6 Zythe

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 09:21 AM

If the Twilight Realm (stage between Sacred and Dark world??) is being fused with Hyrule, that might be because Ganon is having the worlds merge so he can be released and then enslave Hyrule before the flood.

#7 SwordBreaker

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 10:37 AM

If the Twilight Realm (stage between Sacred and Dark world??) is being fused with Hyrule, that might be because Ganon is having the worlds merge so he can be released and then enslave Hyrule before the flood.



You know Zyth, even thought it wasn't directly mentioned in ALttP, I was ALWAYS under the impression that Ganon's intentions was to fuse both worlds. It just felt that way.

I'm glad everyone's with this idea. This connection is very important. The developers simply MUST not hide it from us!

#8 SteveT

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 10:42 AM

Fuse both worlds...kinda like King Koopa in the Mario movie.

But I agree. The fusing thing was pretty blatant, and so is the Twilight Realm=Dark World.

#9 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 11:12 AM

Well Ganon's purpose in LTTP was to create a large enough portal that would allow his entire army to invade Hyrule. That's why he was kidnapping Zelda and the maidens so that they would be used to create such a portal:

...This world was once the
Golden Land where the Triforce
was hidden.

But because Ganon, the leader
of the
thieves, wished it, this world
was transformed...

I'm sure he's intending to
conquer even our Light World
after building his power here.
His hope is to use us maidens
and the power of hte sages
that has been passed on to us


as the key to open a larger
gate between the worlds near
Hyrule Castle
.

But the gate is not
completely open yet...
There is still time.



#10 Zythe

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 11:14 AM

So if the portal is completely open (some quote says the portals overtake Hyrule) it will mean one universe is superimposed on the other?

#11 Fyxe

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 01:35 PM

Ganon's wish was to conquer
the world. That wish changed
the Golden Land into
the Dark World.
After building up his power,
Ganon planned to go on to the
Light World to fulfill his wish.


There's no real suggestion that the Dark World would overwhelm the Light World, merely that Ganon would conquer the Light World as well, which is his true goal.

Not saying it's not a possiblity, but it's not stated in game or anything like that.

#12 garsh

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 01:49 PM

Crazy idea: how about if everyone in this Hyrule just -thinks- they're in Hyrule, while they're really living in a perfectly duplicated mirror of Hyrule that exists in the Scared Realm which is in the process of bending to the will of Ganon into the Dark World. Link knows Kung Fu, and if he takes the red pill, he can see how far the rabbit hole goes.

Okay, probably not, but has anyone else considered this?

#13 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 01:59 PM

There's no real suggestion that the Dark World would overwhelm the Light World, merely that Ganon would conquer the Light World as well, which is his true goal.

Not saying it's not a possiblity, but it's not stated in game or anything like that.


It seems like access to the Dark World is always changing. In LTTP you accessed it by entering a portal (I think with the Magic Mirror); in FSA you entered it via a portal/ a moon pearl in hand--what the heck!? Now we have this Twilight realm that engulfs everything--what exact relation it has to the Dark World is in question--but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just some alteration caused by Ganon.

#14 Fyxe

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 02:07 PM

You don't need anything to enter the portals in ALttP, but you need the Magic Mirror to return.

In FSA you need items called 'Moon Pearls' to open the portals, but that doesn't mean they're THE Moon Pearl.

#15 Vazor

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 09:34 PM

There are definite simlarities between the realms, and I myself consider it highly likely that the Twilight Realm could be the Sacred Realm. After all, the SR has behaved differently from game to game. In OoT there was only one entrance, which could only be opened by the hero; in LTTP there were SR portals everywhere, seemingly distributed at random. In FSA if you used a Moon Pearl it would create a platform to teleport you to the Dark World for a certain amount of time; in LTTP you couldn't just access the DW anywhere, and even then you could stay as long as you want.

Also, remember, that the games state that the SR changes according to the person who touches it. Therefore, we can assume that all the SR discrepencies from game to game are a result of its changing upon the Triforce's touch, so minor details like several mentioned earlier really don't matter. However, at this time, it is impossible to determine whether or not the TR actually is the SR.

#16 joeymartin64

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 09:44 PM

I can't help but be reminded of OoT by this whole thing. Remember when Zelda said that the land around the Triforce flourished and became the Sacred Realm? That's what I'm reminded of here. I don't really know what else to say about it. Perhaps there's more to the Hyrule/Realm relationship than them being all but completely separate worlds, since they seem to exist on the same plane at times, such as this (assuming the Twliight Realm is indeed another name for the Dark World) and Zelda's spiel about the Sacred Realm in OoT.

#17 Guest_Johan_*

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 04:47 AM

According to game watch, the Twilight is the Dark World.

この闇の世界が「トワイライト」と呼ばれる別世界。
This Dark World (Yami no sekai) is a separate world called "Twilight".
http://www.watch.imp...050518/nin3.htm


/Johan

Edit "Yami no sekai" is the same words for the Dark World in LTTP.

#18 Fyxe

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 05:32 AM

But in the same quote it calls it seperate.

#19 Guest_Johan_*

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 05:42 AM

It is a separate world from the real world.

#20 Fyxe

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 06:21 AM

In appearance, it's a dark world. They may just be using the generic term for 'dark world' to describe it. It doesn't mean it's THE Dark World.

Hell, the Mario series even has a 'Dark World'.

#21 mohammedali

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 07:48 AM

According to game watch, the Twilight is the Dark World.

この闇の世界が「トワイライト」と呼ばれる別世界。
This Dark World (Yami no sekai) is a separate world called "Twilight".
http://www.watch.imp...050518/nin3.htm


/Johan

Edit "Yami no sekai" is the same words for the Dark World in LTTP.

Before, people were all bewildered by the fact that OoT had an Evil Realm, whilst aLttP has a Dark World. Those that have seen that Japanese translations know they are the same word. The same seems to be true for the Twilight Realm IMO. Though I understand what Fyke is saying. The fact that it says 'this' dark world, does suggest that it could be using the word 'dark' as an attribute rather than a name. I'm sure we'll find out for sure soon enough, but they are giving more than subtle hints that this is indeed the SR.

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#22 Fyxe

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 08:31 AM

Yes, while at this stage I'm not making any assumptions that the Twilight Realm is the Dark World (why would they use a different term, anyway?), it's interesting to note that in FSA, the Dark World began to take over part of Hyrule, turning the Lost Woods into Skull Woods.

However, that quote to me seems to imply that it's different from the Dark World we already know of.

#23 Zythe

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 09:04 AM

And to had to that, entering the castle in LttP would just swap you to the Dark World because it is some sort of hotspot for whatever was causing those portals to appear. And if a big enough portal appears, you'll basically have Hyrule overtaken with the Sacred Realm. Also, the OoT backstory tends to make it seem like the worlds were more interconnected before they were divided and sealed apart by the sages.

#24 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 10:44 AM

Also, remember, that the games state that the SR changes according to the person who touches it. Therefore, we can assume that all the SR discrepencies from game to game are a result of its changing upon the Triforce's touch, so minor details like several mentioned earlier really don't matter. However, at this time, it is impossible to determine whether or not the TR actually is the SR.


Actaully it changes according to the type of person who touches or possesses the whole Triforce. If this game is after OOT, then we all know Ganon did not have the whole Triforce when he was sealed away--he only had part of it--the Triforce of Power. Unless something else happened after Link returned to the past in OOT.

#25 Zythe

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 10:52 AM

I still think "Twilight" is either a stage between the Sacred Realm and Dark World (like, slow transition) or the stage between Hyrule and the Dark World.

#26 Fyxe

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 12:14 PM

Tri-Enforcer, you say that, but they were already referring to it as the Evil/Dark Realm in OoT, so he doesn't need to have the whole Triforce, it seems...

#27 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 01:26 PM

That's true, I guess it's just another example of the creators contradicting themselves. They do whatever they want without explaining anything so if they want to change the name of the Dark World to Twilight Realm and have function in different ways, I guess they can do that without explaining.

#28 Crazy Penguin

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 03:23 PM

OCARINA OF TIME

The resting place of the sacred
triangle, the Sacred Realm, is a
mirror that reflects what is
in the heart...
the heart of one who enters it...
If an evil heart, the Realm will
become full of evil; if pure,
the Realm will become a paradise.

Ancient Creators of Hyrule!
Now, open the sealed door
and send the Evil Incarnation of
Darkness into the void of the
Evil Realm!!

Link!
Finish him off with the sword of
time, the Master Sword!

Oh sealed door opened by the  
Sages... Close forever with  
the Evil Incarnation of Darkness
within!!


ORACLES

As we guessed,
saving Nayru was
for naught! 
Ambi's age is
filled with
cries of sorrow!
Veran has
extended the
Dark Realm's
reach, giving us
what we seek--
echoing cries of
sorrow! Spread,
darkness!
Spread, sorrow!

By extending the
reach of the
Dark Realm,
Veran has spread
sorrow across
the land. Soon,
the Flame of
Sorrow will
ignite!
Ho ho ho ho ho!


Gwah hah hah!
I was summoned
from the Dark
Realm by
Twinrova.
See my true
form! Feel the
might of a
dark dragon!



#29 joeymartin64

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 12:40 AM

I'm starting to dink with a theory about this Dark World thing (involving stuff from most of the games that mention some sort of realm.) I'll get back to you all if I actually go somewhere with it...

#30 Zythe

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 05:18 AM

Is the general ogre Onox? He looks like a 3d version of him, and Onox comes from the Dark World... so...




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