64 replies to this topic

[Crazy Penguin]

People have suggested that the Zelda games fit into two timelines, diverging from Ocarina of Time. One timeline with The Wind Waker where people remember Link as a great hero and another timeline with Majora's Mask. The idea behind this is that the Wind Waker couldn't happen if Link reverted back to his childhood days at the end of Ocarina of Time, how would people remember that Link had saved them from Ganon?

But this is something that is addressed in Majora's Mask's intro.

---

In the land of Hyrule, there
echoes a legend. A legend held
dearly by the Royal Family that
tells of a boy...

A boy who,
after battling evil and saving
Hyrule, crept away from the land
that had made him a legend...

Done with the battles he once
waged across time, he embarked
on a journey. A secret and
personal journey...

A journey in search of a
beloved and invaluable friend...

A friend with whom he parted
ways when he finally fulfilled his
heroic destiny and took his place
among legends...

---

So why the insistence upon there being a timeline split?

[Hana-Nezumi]

So why the insistence upon there being a timeline split?

cause aonoma said so :3

[SOAP]

Why you ask? Because of this.

[Hero of Winds]

cause aonoma said so :3

No, he didn't.

I call misconception!

[SOAP]

Call it what you want. I say either the creators meant what they said and said what they meant or they're crazy and should never be trusted. No going twisting up their words and saying "well they could've actually meant this and that."

[Crazy Penguin]

He was really struggling and fumbling around with words trying to explain it all and Miyamoto was thoroughly confused and then you have to add in the fact that it'd gone through transcription and translation too. I think they were just trying to explain that Link and the sages defeating Ganon in Ocarina of Time "counted".

Well it counted in Majora's Mask too, as the intro showed. And doesn't Wind Waker reference Majora's Mask with the Tingle thing? And didn't someone translate some official Japanese Wind Wakery thing a while back that had commentary on the intro and mentioned Link going to Termina (could someone link me to that, I forgot to save it)? So Majora's Mask counts in Wind Waker too.

In Majora's Mask Link and the Sages sealing Ganon in OoT counted and the legend was passed down. In Wind Waker Link and the Sages sealing Ganon in OoT counted and the legend was passed down and the events of Majora's Mask counted too. So where's the contradiction?

[SOAP]

Whoa, whoa. I never said I was a Dualists. I only do that for fun. I'm strictly a Single Timelinists when talking seriously. If you want to put upan arguement I suggest you look for MikePetersSucks or something.

[MikePetersSucks]

Why do people like split timelines? conveinence, partly. But also because it's a plausible theory to a degree. However, it's odd that OOT, MM, and TWW reference each other in a WIEEEEERD little triangle (MY Triforce of Time, dammit ^^) Hmm, since Termina is a seperate world alltogether, could it be possible that, when OOT ended, the timeline split? Now listen: Timeline splits. Everyone in the Adult line worships the hero. Link brags about his adventure and has the royal family to back him up. Everyone worships him like the sheep they are. (they're not too bright. They praise Agahnim even though he kills the king and leaves the skeleton there. EWWWwwwwww) Anyway, so Link is a hero in both lines. MM happens, and what happens to Link from then on is irrevelent, so long as he doesn't get to the TWW line somehow. NOW, Termina is another world, right? Now, some people try and claim that because of Link's influence in Termina, he got thrown into Hyrule later or something. Alright, so if it's plausible for Termina to exist outside of Hyrulian time, that means that with the proper portal, you can go into EITHER ONE from Termina. Link runs off to wherever, Tingle tries to follow since he thinks Link is a fairy. He finds a portal and goes in, thinking it's Fairy World, and winds up in TWW somehow and starts a family, all the while spreading word of his adventures with Link, which everyone believes because Link is famous anyway. Or you can just say the Legend of the Fairy thing is crap, I dunno

[Crazy Penguin]

Why do people like split timelines? conveinence, partly. But also because it's a plausible theory to a degree. However, it's odd that OOT, MM, and TWW reference each other in a WIEEEEERD little triangle (MY Triforce of Time, dammit ^^) Hmm, since Termina is a seperate world alltogether, could it be possible that, when OOT ended, the timeline split? Now listen: Timeline splits. Everyone in the Adult line worships the hero. Link brags about his adventure and has the royal family to back him up. Everyone worships him like the sheep they are. (they're not too bright. They praise Agahnim even though he kills the king and leaves the skeleton there. EWWWwwwwww) Anyway, so Link is a hero in both lines. MM happens, and what happens to Link from then on is irrevelent, so long as he doesn't get to the TWW line somehow. NOW, Termina is another world, right? Now, some people try and claim that because of Link's influence in Termina, he got thrown into Hyrule later or something. Alright, so if it's plausible for Termina to exist outside of Hyrulian time, that means that with the proper portal, you can go into EITHER ONE from Termina. Link runs off to wherever, Tingle tries to follow since he thinks Link is a fairy. He finds a portal and goes in, thinking it's Fairy World, and winds up in TWW somehow and starts a family, all the while spreading word of his adventures with Link, which everyone believes because Link is famous anyway. Or you can just say the Legend of the Fairy thing is crap, I dunno

So how again do timeline splits help anything?

[Hana-Nezumi]

No, he didn't.

I call misconception!

its true, he didn't. but he did say that there are two endings in oot, and if you play the game, its pretty obvious that there is an adult ending (ganon is defeated, and everyone throws a party) and a child ending (link puts back master sword SEALING away other timeline and runs off to see zelda.) it is probable that they are in different universes.

[Crazy Penguin]

its true, he didn't. but he did say that there are two endings in oot, and if you play the game, its pretty obvious that there is an adult ending (ganon is defeated, and everyone throws a party) and a child ending (link puts back master sword SEALING away other timeline and runs off to see zelda.) it is probable that they are in different universes.

I have no problem with that whatsoever. It's dividing games up between these two timelines that I find to be silly because the games have shown that Link and the Sages sealing Ganon, Majora's Mask and Wind Waker all happen in one timeline.

[Hana-Nezumi]

or MAYBE what link does in one timeline efeects what happens in the other timeline, like it did when he travelled back and forth between timelines in oot!

[Crazy Penguin]

or MAYBE what link does in one timeline efeects what happens in the other timeline, like it did when he travelled back and forth between timelines in oot!

Huh?

[Neon Z]

Well it counted in Majora's Mask too, as the intro showed. And doesn't Wind Waker reference Majora's Mask with the Tingle thing? And didn't someone translate some official Japanese Wind Wakery thing a while back that had commentary on the intro and mentioned Link going to Termina (could someone link me to that, I forgot to save it)? So Majora's Mask counts in Wind Waker too.

Except most of Majora's Mask doesn't happen in any timeline. Termina is in a completely different dimension from Hyrule, even if Hyrule has two timelines, Termina still has only one.

That Japanese thing is strange. The Hylian text itself clearly supports the Split Timeline theory. "The hero was lost in the flow of time", or something like that.

However, the commentary, written by some unknown person, states that that's talking about Link leaving Hyrule [I]"EDIT" and going to Termina[/I]. However, the text itself is clearly speaking about Link leaving in the timeflow.

[MikePetersSucks]

So how again do timeline splits help anything?

Because TWW just doesn't belong. You don't go from Hyrule>Flood the World>Undersea Hyrule destroyed by infalliable Triforce>TWW never happened>LTTP

[Crazy Penguin]

Because TWW just doesn't belong. You don't go from Hyrule>Flood the World>Undersea Hyrule destroyed by infalliable Triforce>TWW never happened>LTTP

Zelda 2005 takes place after Wind Waker and there was plenty of land in all of the previews. We've seen Hyrule go through lots of changes throughout the series, I think it could survive a flood or a new Hyrule could come about. Let's wait and see.

Except most of Majora's Mask doesn't happen in any timeline. Termina is in a completely different dimension from Hyrule, even if Hyrule has two timelines, Termina still has only one.

Termina and Hyrule, whilst parallel worlds, seem to be contained within the same timeline. When Link turns time back by 3 days it does so for both Termina and Hyrule - at the very beginning of the game the Happy Mask Salesman says that he is busy and can only wait for three days, when you first play the Song of Time images of Skull Kid mugging Link and the following events flash by. Wind Waker still references the events of Majora's Mask. Are you suggesting that Link went from Hyrule timeline A to Termina and after meeting Link Tingle went from Termina to Hyrule timeline B? That's more than a little contrived.

[Vazor]

Because TWW just doesn't belong. You don't go from Hyrule>Flood the World>Undersea Hyrule destroyed by infalliable Triforce>TWW never happened>LTTP

Oh come on. The Great Deku Tree in WW says himself that one day the islands will one day grow together into one great landmass (New Hyrule? Duh.). Nobody said that LTTP had to happen right after WW, it could easily have taken a couple 100, maybe even 1000 years. So how does WW not fit? So a new Hyrule grows over the old one, eliminating geographic inconsistancies.

[Neon Z]

when you first play the Song of Time images of Skull Kid mugging Link and the following events flash by.

But there's a difference. Those are only flash backs, Link has no control over them. Link returns to the moment that he go out of Clock Tower, not to when he met Skull kid in Hyrule, after all, if he did, he wouldn't have lost Epona yet again, and we'd be able to control him in the forest another time.

Wind Waker still references the events of Majora's Mask. Are you suggesting that Link went from Hyrule timeline A to Termina and after meeting Link Tingle went from Termina to Hyrule timeline B? That's more than a little contrived.

Yes, I am suggesting that. Hylian text and Anouma's words support the Split Timeline theory, two minor details, like the legend of Tingle, and the trophy of that one Rito postman aren't nearly as important as the evidence for Split Timeline.

[Crazy Penguin]

Yes, I am suggesting that. Hylian text and Anouma's words support the Split Timeline theory, two minor details, like the legend of Tingle, and the trophy of that one Rito postman aren't nearly as important as the evidence for Split Timeline.

Aunoma never straight out said anything. The time travel thing in Ocarina of Time doesn't make too much sense, Miyamoto himself noted that in the very same interview. They've acknowledged the elephant in the room and I don't think they'll go much further, they never gave an explanation to it and they never said that some games take place in a different timeline than other games. Majora's Mask acknowledged Link saving Hyrule in OoT, Wind Waker acknowledged Link saving Hyrule in OoT and saving Termina in Major's Mask. The logical reasoning would be that all of the events counted and we shouldn't worry about time paradoxes.

[Neon Z]

Aunoma never straight out said anything. The time travel thing in Ocarina of Time doesn't make too much sense, Miyamoto himself noted that in the very same interview. They've acknowledged the elephant in the room and I don't think they'll go much further, they never gave an explanation to it and they never said that some games take place in a different timeline than other games. Majora's Mask acknowledged Link saving Hyrule in OoT, Wind Waker acknowledged Link saving Hyrule in OoT and saving Termina in Major's Mask. The logical reasoning would be that all of the events counted and we shouldn't worry about time paradoxes.

No, it didn't. Termina, outside of Legend of Tingle and that one trophy, is never mentioned in Wind Waker. Also, I don't see how MM acknowledging that Link saved Hyrule in OOT proves anything.

There are a number of ways that that would happen even in a split timeline, and, in a single timeline, there were many possibilities of that not happening(even though it did).

[Crazy Penguin]

No, it didn't. Termina, outside of Legend of Tingle and that one trophy, is never mentioned in Wind Waker.

And should they be ignored? They were still references to Majora's Mask were they not?

Also, I don't see how MM acknowledging that Link saved Hyrule in OOT proves anything.

It proves that the legend of Link saving Hyrule was kept by the royal family even after Link was back in his childhood. Thus we don't have to ignore Link returning to childhood and Majora's Mask for Wind Waker to make sense.

There are a number of ways that that would happen even in a split timeline, and, in a single timeline, there were many possibilities of that not happening(even though it did).

The simplest explanation is usually the best and most correct.

[Zythe]

My assumption was that when Zelda played the Ocarina of Time at the end of OoT everything reset.  
EXCEPT:
1. Link, Zelda, and the sages remember what happened.
2. Ganon is still sealed.

Soon after Link fell into Termina.

Yeah, likely!

[SOAP]

What about how the Triforce of Courage was shattered on Link's second quest. This can't possibly be ignored since it explans why the triforce of Courage was in peices to begin with.