150 replies to this topic

[Goose]

Is Rap music really that bad?

Does it give African Americans a stereotype they think they have to live up to?

Does it have a tune?

Is the devil sending evil messages through it?

Is it really music?

Are people just sourpusses because they dont like new fangled music? Example, Rock and or Roll was once considered Evil, but basically because it was a new style of music.

Your thoughts would be nice

[Chukchi Husky]

Some people I know hate rap because of its "lack of complexity, repetitive beat and monotonous vocals".

[Alakhriveion]

Yeah... I mean, other forms of popular music are so much deeper. Check out these lyrics from "Vertigo":

Yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah

Or

WOOOOAAAH! WHOOOO! WWOOOOAAAHHHH!

[Hero of Winds]

Y'know, I sure could've sworn this was an arunma topic...

Anyways, rap isn't music. It's talking, it's shouting. It ain't music.

Yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah

Or

WOOOOAAAH! WHOOOO! WWOOOOAAAHHHH!

Yeah, but at the least they're singning it. Y'know, with melodies and stuff.

[JRPomazon]

yeah, Rap is for people who can't sing. 'Nuff said

[Goose]

Rap is beautiful music. Before you judge it, listen to "Changes" by the two greatest Rappers ever lived.

I sort of hoped that i could attract Arunma to the topic, to see what he had to say. I like arguing with him, its fun.

[Kwicky Koala]

I don't particularly like rap, but I despise people who write entire genres off as "not music".

[Hana-Nezumi]

i don't like rap. it's icky.

[Korhend]

yeah, Rap is for people who can't sing. 'Nuff said

Um...have you heard metal lately?

[arunma]

Is rap a form of "devil's music?" Most of the time I would say yes, but let's be more specific. Rap as a form of music/speech isn't bad by itself. What's bad is the lyrics. Marilyn Manson, for example, doesn't do rap. Yet he is a bona fide son of hell.

I think that rap music which degrades the black community is most certainly devil's music, in that it supports evil and ungodliness. But it isn't bad because it's rap. It's bad because of the messages that it conveys.

[thabto81]

Is rap a form of "devil's music?"  Most of the time I would say yes, but let's be more specific.  Rap as a form of music/speech isn't bad by itself.  What's bad is the lyrics.  Marilyn Manson, for example, doesn't do rap.  Yet he is a bona fide son of hell.

How, pray tell, do you come to that conclusion?

I think that rap music which degrades the black community is most certainly devil's music, in that it supports evil and ungodliness.  But it isn't bad because it's rap.  It's bad because of the messages that it conveys.

I'm not sure I see how it degrades the black community. The way most rappists usually put it is that it's a reflection of the community they grew up in making rap, at the very least, a pseudo-commentary on today's black society and how we treat it. So the worst you can say about it is that it perpetuates the stereotype of a misogynistic and self-destructive lifestyle. And yet try and name one artform that hasn't done that at least once since its inception.

In my opinion, I wouldn't call rappers singers any more then I'd call a politicians humanitarians. I think they're poets and like all poets there are good ones and there bad ones. Personally speaking I'd choose Jurassic 5 over 50 cent any day not because of what either represtent but because J5 are much more eclectic with their sound than 50 cent is. Still, 50 cent can pull out a popping tune every now and again. But I digress.

[arunma]

How, pray tell, do you come to that conclusion?

Have you heard about the time he destroyed a Bible on stage? How about his T-shirts that encourage kids to kill God? I sincerely hope that you aren't trying to convince me that Marilyn Manson's behavior should be acceptable from a Christian standpoint.

By the way, you identified the issue I have with rap by claiming that it promotes the stereotype that blacks live in a dysfunctional society. Yes, other forms of "art" have done this as well. That's why my issue isn't with rap, but with all forms of art that support these things.

[Selena]

I don't think he ever said anything about being acceptable from a die-hard Christian view, just that he isn't necessarily the 'bone fide son of hell'. He's just against Christianity, I take it. So am I, to an extent, but I'm not evil, am I? Well... not REALLY.


And if Pop music is considered 'music', so is Rap. I may not like it, but I won't say that it should never ever be considered anything less than music. Like any genre, Rap has good songs and bad songs, as well as positive and negative messages. I think it just comes down to personal preference.

[Toan]

Aye, I rarely come in here...but this topic on the latest post list actually intruiged me. *Waits for the "oooo"ing and "awe"ing to calm down* >.>

When it comes to music, I am very open minded. I like pretty much every genre to an extent (except country, I can't stand it! I'll admit i is music, but I just don't like it...probably because I've lived in Georgia my whole life and I've had enough of it). I have Tool, System of a Down, Weird Al, The Halo 2 soundtrack, random songs like Lindsay Lohan (like them boobs XD), Kelly Clarkson, etc. Some of you may know in the past that I do enjoy certain rap songs for their upbeat tempo and stuff. I will say that yes, when it comes down to it, I like rap. I own four Ludacris albums (plan on getting the one I don't own, "Disturbing the Peace", sometime soon) and have downloaded countless other individual songs that I enjoy, like the popular "Get Low" by Lil' Jon and the Eastside Boyz, "Lose My Breath" by Destiny's Child, and "Like Toy Soldiers" by Eminem, to name a few.

HOWEVER - not all rap promotes these bad issues that arunma points out. Sure, most do have some pretty crude themes about sex, drugs, and partying... but check out a few of these that I personally enjoy:

Now women these days don't want a man without a nice pay check
So he splurge even though our lives ain't in right place yet
Buying jewelry and some cars just to impress these whores
Meanwhile your child's poor like "Daddy why you left me for?"
Yeah but it all comes back that's why I named my daughter Karma (yup)
Who teaching me the lesson of life and making me smarter
I sweep her off her feet cuz I'm her knight in shining armour
And I have your fucking head if anybody tries to harm her
Got to teach her about the game that most of us niggaz are spitin?
About these scandalous ass women that get money thru gifts
They suck a cold hard wood for some cold hard cash
Or ride a brother good to put a foot up on the gas
So that brand new ride pick up our friends
While you're slippin` she slides
Drop top Benz gold diggers inside
Crazy what the world will do for money
Thinking that everything will be alright.

If you can't tell, Ludacris has some good morals he's exhibited in this song about how he loves his daughter and he knows that prostitution is wrong here...(it's not the whole song, the rest of it is telling about how money brings more problems than it solves). Let's see...there's the "Like Toy Soldiers" I mentioned, in which the entire song he raps about how he and the other rappers need to stop creating battles and murdering everyone to give rap a better image, to stop killing off friends and be leaders in communitites. I'm sure there are more, but these are the two that come mind immediately. Please don't just write off rap music (yes, it IS music, despite anyone's outrageous "beliefs" it isn't) as trash. ..at least give it chance. Besides, it's not going away anytime soon.

[Toan]

Music as defined by dictionary.com is "The art of arranging sounds in time so as to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition, as through melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre."

Let's see, Melody is (again, defined by dictionary.com):
1. A rhythmically organized sequence of single tones so related to one another as to make up a particular phrase or idea.
2. Structure with respect to the arrangement of single notes in succession.
3. The leading part or the air in a composition with accompaniment.
4. A poem suitable for setting to music or singing.

By golly, rap has that! Let's explore deeper.

Harmony (defined by dictionary.com) is:
1. The study of the structure, progression, and relation of chords.
2. Simultaneous combination of notes in a chord.
3. The structure of a work or passage as considered from the point of view of its chordal characteristics and relationships.
4. A combination of sounds considered pleasing to the ear.

Hmm...rap has that too...

Rhythm (defined by dictionary.com):
1. The pattern of musical movement through time.
2. A specific kind of such a pattern, formed by a series of notes differing in duration and stress: a waltz rhythm.
3. A group of instruments supplying the rhythm in a band.
4. The pattern or flow of sound created by the arrangement of stressed and unstressed syllables in accentual verse or of long and short syllables in quantitative verse.
5. The similar but less formal sequence of sounds in prose.

So far 3 out of 4...let's try this last one. Timbre (as defined again by dictionary.com) is:
The combination of qualities of a sound that distinguishes it from other sounds of the same pitch and volume.

Well, I can definitely tell when rap comes on the radio. Hmm...apparently rap IS music. What a suprise... and if you still disagree, it looks like it's an issue you'll have to take up with Wesbter or someone.

[Goose]

This is an extract from Changes by Tupac. Look at the message, then decide if it comes from the devil.

 Changes - Tupac

 I see no changes all I see is racist faces
 misplaced hate makes disgrace to races
 We under I wonder what it takes to make this
 one better place, let's erase the wasted
 Take the evil out the people they'll be acting right
 'cause both black and white is smokin' crack tonight
 and only time we chill is when we kill each other
 it takes skill to be real, time to heal each other
 And although it seems heaven sent
 We ain't ready, to see a black President, uhh
 It ain't a secret don't conceal the fact
 the penitentiary's packed, and it's filled with blacks
 But some things will never change
 try to show another way but you stayin' in the dope game
 Now tell me what's a mother to do
 bein' real don't appeal to the brother in you
 You gotta operate the easy way
 "I made a G today" But you made it in a sleazy way
 sellin' crack to the kid. " I gotta get paid,"
 Well hey, well that's the way it is
 

Edit: Sorry Arunma, my bad. Hope this is easier to read, AND, it highlights the point I was trying to get across.

[arunma]

Uh, can you guys please not quote full length song lyrics? It takes up a lot of space, and makes the posts difficult to read. Thanks.

[arunma]

Anyway...

My issue is not the rap. I think some of you guys aren't properly understanding my thesis. I'm saying that music which contains ungodly lyrics is "devil's music."

This is a bit odd, since I don't believe in the devil as literally as the liturgical folks do.

[Korhend]

How, pray tell, do you come to that conclusion?

Maybe its the fact that he released an album called "Antichrist superstar"

[arunma]

Yes, that too. Actually Korhend, of all of Marilyn Manson's vile deeds, I wasn't aware of this one.

So Thabto, if you were a believing Christian, would you not label this man a son of hell?

[Selena]

No misguided sheep that can be turned? Just a son of hell?

[arunma]

Actually Selena, Jesus himself used the phrase (Matthew 23:15) to refer to Pharisees who sought converts to Judaism, but who didn't properly instruct new Jews in righteousness. So the term is Biblical. Of course, we can't just go around calling anyone a son of hell. However, I firmly believe that in Marilyn Manson's case, my accusation is justified.

Of course no one is beyond repentance. Indeed, Paul the apostle did quite a bit worse before becoming a Christian. But the point is, Paul repented. Marilyn Manson, on the other hand, has yet to do so.

[Oberon Storm]

Actually, Goose, "Changes" was written by Tupac alone. Tupac was probably one of the greatest ever. And "Changes" wasn't the only track of that nature he wrote.

My problem is that people are writing off rap as music just because they either do not like it or can't get around their own paradigm (Hey! I used a big word!). I think Toan has already established that by defintion rap/hip hop is music.

Another problem I have is that the mainstream rap/hip hop you might see on VH1, MTV or MTV2 doesn't really project life in the ghetto anymore. You might get a deep one every now and then. Nas and Jadakiss have both put out their own respective tracks "One Mic" and "Why". Even Eminem will occasionally put out a good one like "Like Toy Soldiers" and "Cleaning Out My Closet". Earlier tracks of his were "Role Model" and "I Am (Whatever You Say I AM)". But these other guys, Lil' Jon, Ja Rule, 50 Cent, and Snoop Dogg only put out an image the media wants because it sells. Young Black kids try to emulate it. It's not that they are getting held down by society, they're holding themselves down.

And, arunma, I would suggest listening to Kanye West's "Jesus Walks". And Marlyn Manson is not a Satanist. His father was a preacher for crying out loud. He is a Babtist. He merely seeks to get people to question what they see as normal or beautiful. He has only said this on a million different occasions.

[Goose]

Thanks Clark, (sorry, bad pun I know.)

Eminems "Lose Yourself" is another example of a deep rap song. Its about never giving up and getting yourself out of a rut.

There is heaps of good rap music if your willing to turn off MTV and look for it.