151 replies to this topic

[Beno]

Everybody here knows about the "Zelda Box" that came out not too long after the Wind Waker came out in Japan right? Well, it is this, uh, box, that has a book of art (and other info), CD, and figure. In this book of information, there is one section that translates all the Hylian in the game into Japanese. This is includes the opening of the game. Also included in this section is the ingame subtitles and the a commentary/explanation. Well, I translated the Japanese translation of the Hylian and the commentry. (for the in-game text I just used the NoA translation)

NOTE: I made this as a table, but obviously I can't do a table here, so it isn't going to look as neat. Each section corresponds to one of the pictures in the opening sequence. First I give the Hylian Translation, then the In Game Text, and then the commentary.

Enjoy!



Opening
In the opening of the story, the print in Hylia characters tells the story of the formation of the world in “Wind Waker”. This is read and understood, it will become clear that “Wind Waker” is the legitimate sequel to “Ocarina of Time.” The difference of contents in the in-game subtitles and the literal translation are also quite interesting.

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Hylian
In the olden days, there was a kingdom where the power of the Gods rested. The people who lived in this land of rich blessing were called the Hylia people and were said to be able to hear the god’s voices. In addition to them, there were the people of the plains who each had their individual cultures. There were the mountain people, the Goron, the water people, the Zora, the desert people, the Gerudo, and the forest people, the Kokiri. But the sound of the footsteps of ruin was fast approaching this rich land.

In-Game Subtitles
Long ago, there existed a kingdom where a golden power lay hidden. It was a prosperous land blessed with green forests, tall mountains, and peace.

Commentary/Explanation
The contents told in the print are overwhelmingly deeper and it shows that "Wind Waker" and "Ocarina of Time" have an even closer relationship. The hieroglyphs show that many races other than the Hylia people lived together in the world at the time of "Ocarina of Time”. The other people in the Hylia Kingdom other than the Hylia people, such as Link and Zelda, are the Goron people, such as Darunia, Zora people, such as Ruto, and Kokiri people such as Saria, The God’s power, the Triforce was shown in “Ocarina of Time” and Link got the Triforce of Courage, Zelda the Triforce of Wisdom, and Ganondorf the Triforce of Power. This begins the game and is all told in a few seconds.

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Hylian
An evil person obtained the power of the Gods and the land was covered in evil. The beautiful world was ruined.

In-Game Subtitles
But one day a man of great evil found the golden power and took it for himself...With its strength at his command, he spread darkness across the kingdom.But then, when all hope had died, and the hour of doom seemed at hand...

Commentary/Explanation
Princess Zelda falls into the hands of Ganon in “Ocarina of Time”, while the world was covered in darkness due to the period of Link’s absence.

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Hylian
Then a person dressed in clothes of green appeared. He received the Gods’ power and in the end of a desperate struggle, the evil one was stripped of his power and the world returned to normal.

In-Game Subtitles
...a young boy clothed in green appeared as if from nowhere.Wielding the blade of evil's bane, he sealed the dark one away and gave the land light.

Commentary/Explanation
“Ocarina of Time” is the episode where Link smashes the designs of Ganondorf with the “power of the Gods” and the “Sword of Evil’s Bane,” the Master Sword.

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Hylian
The person who appeared across time was called the Hero of Time. This legend was circulated in the kingdom and after a little while, even though peace was thought to have returned, dark clouds reappeared in the kingdom. The evil one, who was thought to have been sealed forever by the work of the hero, was somehow able to come back.

In-Game Subtitles
This boy, who traveled through time to save the land, was known as the Hero of Time.The boy's tale was passed down through generations until it became legend...But then...a day came when a fell wind began to blow across the kingdom.The great evil that all thought had been forever sealed away by the hero......once again crept forth from the depths of the earth, eager to resume its dark designs.

Commentary/Explanation
The episode not told with “Ocarina of Time” starts here. After Link leaves Hyrule, by some chance Ganondorf comes back.

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Hylian
The people anxiously waited for the legendary hero to appear once more, but since he traveled the stream of time and left the country behind, he did not appear. The evil one approached the royal palace of the kingdom, and with the protector gone, the people gave their prayers and put the fate of the earth in the hands of the Gods.

In-Game Subtitles
The people believed that the Hero of Time would again come to save them....But the hero did not appear.Faced by an onslaught of evil, the people could do nothing but appeal to the gods.In their last hour, as doom drew nigh, they left their future in the hands of fate.

Commentary/Explanation
What Link does after leaving the country is clearly shown in the hieroglyphs. "Majora’s Mask" is the episode of the series that Link is traveling to after "Ocarina of Time." It seems while Hyrule was being ruined, he was in Termina.

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Hylian
A long time has passed, and now the tale is only known has a story told by hearsay. When boys grow up, at their celebration, imitating the hero of legend, they are dressed with clothes of green and are told, “Dressed in the clothes of green, and wielding a sword, you will be able to release the light and wipe out evil.” The legendary hero is used as an example in the hopes that they will one day grow up to be fine men.

In-Game Subtitles
What became of that kingdom...?None remain who know.The memory of the kingdom vanished, but its legend survived on the wind's breath.On a certain island, it became customary to garb boys in green when they came of age.Clothed in the green of fields, they aspired to find heroic blades and cast down evil.The elders wished only for the youths to know courage like the hero of legend...

Commentary/Explanation
The Hylia King entrusted the ruined Hyrule country to the Gods, who sunk it to the bottom of the sea. Link’s legend is scattered around the world, and becomes the root of the customs on Puroro Island. The delicate difference in the depiction of Link's battle in the subtitles and the hieroglyphs are interesting.

[coinilius]

Wow, very nice work Beno!

I believe that Zethar-II had done a translation of the Zelda Box Hylian Scroll stuff as well, but the site that had it on is more or less down. The section containing the Hylian Scrolls seems to be, anyway.

[MikePetersSucks]

*is amazed; claps; whistles* NICE

[TSA]

I think somebody did this - like Mak and Zethar.

[Beno]

Really? Do you know where I can find it?

If they did do it, their translations are probably a lot better than mine.

[coinilius]

It was on Melora's World History of Hyrule, but I'm pretty sure the page it was on was taken down. It's good having another translation around, though

[Vazor]

I was right! Link WAS in Termina when Hyrule was being ruined!

Also, nice work Beno. Question: was the "Zelda Box" an official Nintendo source?

[Beno]

I would have to say yes on the official-ness of it. It has loads of interviews and comments by Aonuma and other Zelda creators.

[Vazor]

All right, cool. This definitely strengthens my OoT-WW theories, and I'm sure a million other peoples' theories too.

[Beno]

I'm still not positive whether this supports the multi-timeline theory or a single-timeline theory.

It seems to lean more towards the multi-timeline, but I still think it could be either way from this text...

[Vazor]

I'd say it leans towards single-timeline. It doesn't say anything about new worlds or realities, it just says that after Link saved Hyrule, Ganon got out.

[FDL]

Well, the commentary really gives insight into the backstory of TWW. Good job translating.

[Beno]

The reason I think it does lean towards multi-timeline is because it says that Link travels back in time and then Majora's Mask happens, while at the same time Hyrule is being ruined.

Yet, when Link comes out of Majora's Mask into the woods, everything seems okay in that Hyrule. It seems if Ganon had returned and Hyrule was in ruin, all of Hyrule would be affected. (even if they great flood hadn't exactly happened yet)

[Vazor]

Well, I've never seen the end of Majora's Mask (I don't have the game).

Question: In the end of Majora's Mask, how much of Hyrule exactly do we see?

If it's just a small forest, then for all we know they could have just landed a long time in the future, in the Deku Tree's sacred woods (as seen in WW). I say that because of all the time traveling done by Link in Majora's Mask, the time flow in Termina started to diverge from the normal Hyrulean time flow. While it was only three days to Termina (well, a lot more for Link but you get the point), all of the shifting in the time-space continium could have made Link's return to Hyrule occur long after the Great flood.

[Beno]

I could see that, but....

You do only see a small section of the woods, but it seems a lot like the same woods that we saw him in the beginning.

I'm pretty sure in the Wind Waker people like Jabun, and other old Hylian speaking characters, all hope that the King has found the Hero of Time again and are dissapointed when they find out it is not, just the young boy (Link).

So, it seems like, if he did come back into the future like that, he would've have been able to save the day, instead of the young boy (Link) who does.

[Tri-Enforcer]

Hylian
The people anxiously waited for the legendary hero to appear once more, but since he traveled the stream of time and left the country behind, he did not appear. The evil one approached the royal palace of the kingdom, and with the protector gone, the people gave their prayers and put the fate of the earth in the hands of the Gods.

In-Game Subtitles
The people believed that the Hero of Time would again come to save them....But the hero did not appear.Faced by an onslaught of evil, the people could do nothing but appeal to the gods.In their last hour, as doom drew nigh, they left their future in the hands of fate.

Commentary/Explanation
What Link does after leaving the country is clearly shown in the hieroglyphs. "Majora’s Mask" is the episode of the series that Link is traveling to after "Ocarina of Time." It seems while Hyrule was being ruined, he was in Termina.

I guess it's safe to say that all this is indeed canon. As much of a split-timeline believer I am, this seems to support the single timeline mostly. Here's why, at the end of OOT we see Link as a child, at the star of MM he's a child and his legend is known. Also, many of us already know that MM takes place after Link returns to the past.

What might have been the dagger is in the commentary/explanation section where it says: "What Link does after leaving the country is clearly shown in the hieroglyphs. "Majora’s Mask" is the episode of the series that Link is traveling to after "Ocarina of Time." It seems while Hyrule was being ruined, he was in Termina"

Some may ask, what about the part when they say he left the time stream? I say unto you that Termina is of another dimension--so it is not on Hyrule's time stream. So Link left Hyrule's time stream. If this is indeed canon and official, then what does this mean? It means that there is only a single timeline. I don't know but it seems that way, until further notice. When I first joined these forums, it was my sole intent like any other to find out what is the proper order of the games and to make sense of the storyline. Keep in mind, if there is only a single time timeline then that doesn't mean we're any closer to figuring this out--the single vs. multiple timeline issues weren't even a fraction of the issues surrounding the Zelda storyline. Actually, this makes the Zelda storyline even harder for me to understand.

[Husse]

Question: In the end of Majora's Mask, how much of Hyrule exactly do we see?

Indeed. Hyrule, for all we know, could not be "fine" at all when he returns. All we see in the end is the empty Lost Woods, and even then, only for a few seconds. This does not suggest at ALL that Hyrule is at peace, even the musical key is neither joyful nor sorrowful. As the camera zooms in on the carved stump, we can almost hear a whisper saying..."Until the next time."

Problem is, we don't know what happened to Link once he got back. He didn't save the world , that's all we know. For all we know, he could've come back, gotten old, and died before he could save the world. But that's not what the box suggests! Indeed, seems he was not IN Hyrule in time of turmoil. Probably when he got back it was too late to do anything. THAT'S why I want to know what happened to him, b/c he's my favorite Link, and I'm dying to know what he grew up in. (Please let the next game be about him!)

But I digress...

One nice thing I noticed was that in the actual Japanese, it says a "person" dressed in green, not a young boy. He was a DUDE/MAN/TEEN when he whooped Ganon. I was always concerned that maybe, the legend in the future just got twisted, (it is hearsay,) b/c that was inaccurate. Well, now we know it was just faulty English translation.

[SOAP]

Wow! This is just... wow! I'm so at a loss of words here. This REALLY clears [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of things up. But it kinda leans more towards a Multiple Timeline though. Oh well. At least we know that Ganon returned shortly after OoT. Which means that the Princess Zelda in the painting is OoT Zelda and King Dapnes was her father who she was spying on in the castle courtyard!

Question: In the end of Majora's Mask, how much of Hyrule exactly do we see?

Oh my gosh! I just had a crazy thought: What if... Link returned to woods of Outset Island and the Link we see in TWW is his great, great, great grandson or something. Then the Hero's Sheild would actually be Link's family heirloom after all (Even though KORL thinks otherwise... stupid boat).

[Husse]

I actually like to think that he isn't related, but that by random chance, the Hero's Shield is OoT Link's heirloom, lol.

[Beno]

Well, now we know it was just faulty English translation.

It's not really a faulty English translation. I believe it was meant to have differences because the legend changed over time. The Hylian is the real legend, while the in game subtitles are just the legend as the people of the time know it.

[Neon Z]

But that's not what the box suggests! Indeed, seems he was not IN Hyrule in time of turmoil. Probably when he got back it was too late to do anything.

The Hero of Time never appeared. Also, you should remember that that account completely contradicts in game quotes, which say that Ganon came back generations after OOT. I'm surely not taking those commentaries as canon.

[Beno]

Also, you should remember that that account completely contradicts in game quotes, which say that Ganon came back generations after OOT.

Which account do you mean and where in the game does it say that it happened generations later? (Other than in the opening subtitles)

The Hylian says it was a "little while after" and the subtitles say "generations."

And if you are referring to the opening subtitles, than I think that the actual Hylian text would be considered more canon than the subtitles.

[Vazor]

Oh my gosh! I just had a crazy thought: What if... Link returned to woods of Outset Island and the Link we see in TWW is his great, great, great grandson or something. Then the Hero's Sheild would actually be Link's family heirloom after all (Even though KORL thinks otherwise... stupid boat).

That's pretty much what I meant in my thing. All Link's time warping in Termina caused an increase in their timeline's speed, so when Link came back, it was already after the flood. The woods we see in the end of MM could easily be the Fairy Woods from TWW (or the Sacred Forest, and he could've just taken a boat to outset.

I refuse to believe that the Links aren't related. Just too much cooincidence for me.

[FDL]

Hylian
The people anxiously waited for the legendary hero to appear once more, but since he traveled the stream of time and left the country behind, he did not appear. The evil one approached the royal palace of the kingdom, and with the protector gone, the people gave their prayers and put the fate of the earth in the hands of the Gods.

In-Game Subtitles
The people believed that the Hero of Time would again come to save them....But the hero did not appear.Faced by an onslaught of evil, the people could do nothing but appeal to the gods.In their last hour, as doom drew nigh, they left their future in the hands of fate.

Commentary/Explanation
What Link does after leaving the country is clearly shown in the hieroglyphs. "Majora’s Mask" is the episode of the series that Link is traveling to after "Ocarina of Time." It seems while Hyrule was being ruined, he was in Termina.

I find this to be very single-timeline leaning. The fact that the creators SPECIFICALLY SAY that Link was in Termina during the attack of Ganon opens many things up.

[Vazor]

I'm telling you guys, it was the Magic Mirror! The Mirror! THAT'S how he got out so quickly! It all makes perfect sense! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA *is dragged off to mental asylum*

[Husse]

Well, that actually makes a bit of sense, so lock me up in the rubber room with you!