87 replies to this topic

[Zythe]

It is actually, a big circle. Do the Lost Woods at all connect with Lake Hylia? The Minish ones do. Of course this could be a natural geographical change, I still deemed it worthy of mentioning.

[lord-of-shadow]

Things only evolve when they're forced to by circumstances

Nobody ever said anything about evolving, Zythe.

Evolution takes thousands and millions of years - it simply does not happen between any games. Any racial changes are a result of something other than evolution. Magic, for instance, though I hate to blame everything on magic.

[Zythe]

There still needs to be a reason. Whether, "a wizard did it" or its some funky Zelda biology law, there still needs to be a reason for something to evolve. These things don't happen at random.

Minish are not Kokiri.

[lord-of-shadow]

But that reason does not necessarily have to have anything to do with them adapting to a new environment or anything of the sort. A spell gone wrong, a change in shape in exchange for the protection of a Deku Tree. When you're dealing with magical beings in a game like Zelda, it is foolish to try to apply the rules of our own world to everything.


But then, I don't really believe the Kokiri and Minish are the same, either - just countering your unacceptably disdainful attitude. Which, by the way, needs to stop.

Have you noticed, Zythe? In almost every post you make here in Zelda storyline, you end them with a single statement, stating that this or that is true, or that you just destroyed someone's idea with a single piece of evidence, or something similar.

That is unacceptable, Zythe. FIrst of all, in many cases it is simply mistaken - you didn't just destroy that idea with your single piece of evidence. Or that little thing that you're declaring true is NOT proven true by any means, but is rather your own opinion.


You need to lighten up, gain a larger respect for others here, stop declaring yourself right and others wrong just because you believe it to be so. I and almost everyone else on the mod team is sick of your attitude, and I highly doubt we're alone in this.

[Alakhriveion]

Do the Lost Woods at all connect with Lake Hylia?

Yeah, they do. You can't get to Lake Hylia via the Lost Woods, because OoT isn't set up that way, but they're right next to each other.

[Zythe]

OK then. So then is that more evidence that OoT Hyrule is also TMC Hyrule?

[Fatgoron]

OK then. So then is that more evidence that OoT Hyrule is also TMC Hyrule?

That depends, it seems kind of flimsy evidence. It's entirely circumstantial, but then it's in my nature to look for the most concrete information possible, which doesn't exist in this case.

[Zythe]

The OoT and MC maps fit together near-perfectly if you take it that there's a layer of Death Mountain above what we see in TMC.

[Fatgoron]

http://www.zeldaphoe...p_hyrulemap.jpg
http://www.zeldauniv...s/worldmap2.png

I don't see the resemblance myself. There's no kakariko in TMC, which would be somewhere near the top of lake hylia/lonlon ranch.
There's swamp where OoT had a desert.
The graveyard should be in the far east of the map.
Hyrule town should be lonlon ranch.
The forest is in the right area, but that's about it as far as I can tell. Veil falls could feasibly be death mountain I suppose.

[Zythe]

I don't see the resemblance myself. There's no kakariko in TMC, which would be somewhere near the top of lake hylia/lonlon ranch.
There's swamp where OoT had a desert.
The graveyard should be in the far east of the map.
Hyrule town should be lonlon ranch.
The forest is in the right area, but that's about it as far as I can tell. Veil falls could feasibly be death mountain I suppose.

Swamps have been known to dry up.
There was a war - maybe the old one got destroyed.
That's only a slight change in positioning, the way it looks, on TMC version Lon Lon Ranch is still south and slightly offset from the castle.
Veil Falls and Mount Crenel are two different ends of Death Mountain.
Yes, the forest is in the same place and it links up with Lake Hylia the same way, says Alak.

[lord-of-shadow]

When it comes to matching maps, a bit of flexibility is required. You need to account for the fact that they can't give us the exact same map layout every time, changes in style... things like that.

Taking all that into account, I'd say quite a few of these maps are too similar to be different lands altogether.

[Zythe]

That's true. Note that Death Mountain has no form of Mountain Kokiri!

[MikePetersSucks]

Yes, and about the geography. We have a magical country here, and while we can't depend on it too much, there are easier explainations. Swamps do dry up, and most little inconsistancies are manmade, like towns and graveyards. Boohoo, this stuff is destroyed and rebuilt in war. deal. And the Korok can replant forests pretty easily, can't the Kokiri do the same? and if they can't because of their living restrictions, maybe the Deku Tree can strike a deal with the Fairy Queen to borrow some forest planting fairies or something. Like, a forest can be burned. If the Deku Tree is still alive, he can rebuild a new forest, relocate his children, spit out a seed for them to plant in the new forest, and then die or somesuch. The only real problem we REALLY have to deal with is Death Mountain, which constantly serves as a vital landmark.

[Zythe]

So perhaps seeing as most of the world is dead by LoZ's point and natives now live in caves, the Minish are probably extinct or in hiding. That is, if you subscribe to that theory.

[Vazor]

I say that by the time of LoZ, the Minish have returned to their home land of the Sacred Realm, perhaps to restore its goodness, as it is now the Dark World.

And as for the Minish being throughout all the games defying their being the Kokiri: Well, look at evolution: according to the theory of evolution, human beings and monkeys (and a lot of other species too) evolved from the same ancient species. Why couldn't that be true with the Minish? Perhaps the only ones that evolved into the Kokiri were the forest Minish, and they just branched off of the evolutionary tree. Same goes for the Kokiri splitting into the Koroks and the Bandits (I refuse to believe that the LTTP bandits are not somehow related to the Kokiri).

[SOAP]

I could see how the Minish could evolve into the kokiri. Perhaps it was only the ones who chose to stay in the world of Men that eventually turned to something more human sized to better adapt to their larger-scaled surroundings. And then there's the thing how only children could see them and it would make sense that they would try to emulate what they felt closest too. I mean you see it all the time in nature with animals pretending plants, plants pretending be animals. Hell, there are even some butterflies that can make themselves look like the haed of a tiger to ward off predators. Maybe taking the form of human children was neccessary to survive not being accidentially stepped on by adult humans. In fact, in TWW, it states the Koroks took on the form of children so we know the childlike Kokiri are not their natural form but that doesn't mean their Korok forms are their natural forms either but rather another turn in evolution.

I don't think they turned into Bandits in ALttP though. But that's just me. However, I think the Koroks could've been inspired by the very Kokiri-ish flute kid in the Woods of Mystery who turns into a plant.

[Zythe]

If the Minish did evolve into the Kokiri (there is no evidence either way), why aren't there any sort of strange races living in Hyrule town or Death Mountain that weren't in TMC we don't know of?

[Vazor]

The ones up in death mountain wouldn't have to fear getting squashed by adults, so they wouldn't have to evolve. For all we know they could be living in Goron city. Also, the ones from Hyrule Castle Town were very close to where the Temple of Time was eventually built, so they could have gone through that portal to get home. The forest Minish, however, were always surrounded by monsters, as the monsters obviously didn't go away at the end of MC. They needed to adapt to a human-like form, so they evolved into children, like Mario Jr said, because they were the only humans they felt a connection with. Also, the growing of the Great Deku Tree would lkikely have something to do with it.

[Fatgoron]

the monsters obviously didn't go away at the end of MC

o.0 The end sequence shows the monsters dissapearing as Zelda sets things right using the wishing cap and the remains of the lightforce.

[Zythe]

o.0 The end sequence shows the monsters dissapearing as Zelda sets things right using the wishing cap and the remains of the lightforce.

All the monsters of the world, including Ganon, also die in the LTTP secret PotFS ending. But then they're back by LoZ.

[Hero of Winds]

All the monsters of the world, including Ganon, also die in the LTTP secret PotFS ending. But then they're back by LoZ.

There's two flaws with your statement.

1) Whether or not ALttP's extra ending (after beating Palace of the Four Sword) is canon is up in the air.

2) LoZ doesn't follow ALttP, officially.

[Vazor]

Meh, it was just a theory anyway. Even if they might not be directly evolved from the Picori, I still feel there's some greater connection between the Kokiri and the Minish. But that's just me.

[Vazor]

Meh, it was just a theory anyway. Even if they might not be directly evolved from the Picori, I still feel there's some greater connection between the Kokiri and the Minish. But that's just me.

[Zythe]

Double post dude! D/W, it was probably a server error.

Hero, I was just mentioning that they've all died before and yet nothing's happened or been said about it. I was not saying it was canon. At all.