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#1 Sir Turtlelot

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:27 AM

Given that the explanation for the DT in HH did not explain how a third split actually came to be, what would you guys use as a substitute theory that actually explains the split?

Personally, my explanation is somewhat based off of this guy's. The drawing the in the video also translates to my explanation, so at least give that a look.

My theory is that the three splits in OoT are due to Link's time travel. The first split is caused when Link travels between the present and the future. Obviously we all know that the future segment of OoT becomes the AT, however the present portion of OoT, does NOT become the CT. The CT timeline is created when Zelda sends Link back in time, creating a third split. The reason a second split is created and Link is not returned to the original timeline is because Link is not the one who sends himself back in time, Zelda does. And since Link no longer exists in the OT, no one is there to warn the Kingdom of Hyrule about his attack, nor is there anyone to rise against once he has taken over, leading into the original IW story from ALttP.

Essentially, my theory assumes that time travel is relative to the one who is commencing it. Link created the first split by traveling to the future, while Zelda creates the second split by sending Link to the past. Had Link done it himself, there would only be two splits, but since Zelda did it, it created a second split leading to the CT. The timeline expressed physically should like something like this:

OoT (present-game) - ALttP
\
OoT (future) - WW
\
OoT (present-ending) - MM

My apologies if this seems like incoherent rambling, since I'm not that awake right now.




Thoughts? Anyone else have their own substitute theory?

Edited by Master BiShredder, 09 July 2012 - 10:27 AM.


#2 Snow

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:55 PM

The problem with that theory is that Hyrule Historia outright says that Link is defeated in battle by Ganondorf (and implies that his defeat is the catalyst for the events of the decline timeline). I'd say that the split is either some Many-worlds interpretation thing or a random act of the Goddesses.

#3 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:21 PM

Plot Hole.


Seriously, there's no reason for it whatsoever. And it's kind of fucked up how the Decline timeline ends up better for Hyrule than the fucking Adult Timeline where Link wins.

What the HELL, developers?

#4 Sir Deimos

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:00 PM

... it's a Link lost scenario. I don't think it's really worth all this analysis. In the final fight, Link can only either win, or lose. So this is a time line that spawns from someone "game over"ing in the final battle.


Super simple.

#5 Showsni

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 05:19 PM

.' class='bbc'>It doesn't need an explanation. This is why I always saw the simple two timeline theory as hokey - a split timeline makes no sense from teh point of view of us at the end of the timeline trying to figure out the history. It only really works as a what if scenario - what if Link died? Which is clearly a cop out!

#6 SOAP

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:58 PM

I think people just want an in-universe explanation for the DT, to balance out how CT has an in-universe explanation. Nothing wrong with that I guess. At the end of the day though it doesn't change anything so I don't bother.

.' class='bbc'>It doesn't need an explanation. This is why I always saw the simple two timeline theory as hokey - a split timeline makes no sense from teh point of view of us at the end of the timeline trying to figure out the history. It only really works as a what if scenario - what if Link died? Which is clearly a cop out!


I don't know. I tend to think of what-if scenarios a legit part of fictional storytelling, especially when dealing with a long string of stories being pieced together by different storytellers. So what if it creates two or three separate universes that have nothing to do with each other anymore? It's set in a fictional universe seperate from our own anyways, there's nothing keeping it from existing in several similar ones that vary slightly. Besides, the Zelda games deal with parallel worlds alraedy with Termina, the Sacred Realm, Twilight Realm, Minish Realm, ect. Adding two more universes where Hyrule history begins to deviate greatly after the events of OoT to the bunch isn't hurting anything. As long as it's entertianing, I can suspend my disbelief enough to engross myself in whatever Zelda game I'm playing in at the time. In fact, I find it easier because I'm not caught up in trying to fix the game into a part of the timeline as I'm playing. I'm just accepting as just another story in huge tree of stories and tales branching off each other. Besides, what-if's are usually good launch pad for new stories anyways.

MPS, does bring up a good point about Hyrule ending up relatively better in the timeline where Link lost but I think the HH implied it wasn't without a lot of great pain of suffering in the short run. After Link lost, things went downhill immediately, with Ganon seizing the ToW from Zelda and taking over Hyrule. This forced Zelda to lead her people into battle against Ganon and sealing him up in the sacred realm along with the Triforce, thus severing her people from their kingdom's most holy artifact in the process. Not to mention how many lives were lost. Also, the DT makes a huge deal about the bloodline of the Hylian thinning out, which probably occurred in all three timelines anyways but the DT is the only one were it's given significant attention. It might have been because the IW drove the pure blood Hylians to near exstinction wheras in the other timelines it just seems like there was a massive immigration of round-eared muggle types that probably intermarried with Hylians.

In the AT, we don't know how long after Ganon was defeated that he returned in TWW's BS. I'd say it was long enough for people to be totally unprepared. I tend to think of TWW's BS where Hyrule floods as being pretty much parallel to the events of ALttP. Essentially, TWW's BS is what ALttP if no hero appeared to challenge Ganondorf. Hyrule does end up getting flooded and then later on washed away completely by King Daphnes wish, but it's people survive and move on to rebuild Hyrule elsewhere.

TP Hyrule seems to fare the best of the three. There's a couple of close calls with Ganon but he always seems to be thwarted.

#7 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:18 AM

MPS, does bring up a good point about Hyrule ending up relatively better in the timeline where Link lost but I think the HH implied it wasn't without a lot of great pain of suffering in the short run. After Link lost, things went downhill immediately, with Ganon seizing the ToW from Zelda and taking over Hyrule. This forced Zelda to lead her people into battle against Ganon and sealing him up in the sacred realm along with the Triforce, thus severing her people from their kingdom's most holy artifact in the process. Not to mention how many lives were lost. Also, the DT makes a huge deal about the bloodline of the Hylian thinning out, which probably occurred in all three timelines anyways but the DT is the only one were it's given significant attention. It might have been because the IW drove the pure blood Hylians to near exstinction wheras in the other timelines it just seems like there was a massive immigration of round-eared muggle types that probably intermarried with Hylians.


Still better than genociding most of the world's population and irrevocably blasting most of the world's history and culture straight to hell. :P

I'd take a fairly brief war and the thinning of a species over that. It's not like Hylians post- and pre- blood-thinning are really all that different. Most of them never made use of their alleged magical gifts anyway. Big whoop.

This is why I like pinning the DT games on my CT line like I do in my timeline. It doesn't implicitly justify the failure of a hero.

But most importantly, I'm really annoyed that OOT:3DS doesn't have a "Link fails" Alternate Ending. It'd of been a perfect add-on for new content and it came out roughly the same time as HH anyway so why in the fuck not? Unless the whole thing is purely an asspull they come with at the last second....

#8 SOAP

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:58 PM

MPS, does bring up a good point about Hyrule ending up relatively better in the timeline where Link lost but I think the HH implied it wasn't without a lot of great pain of suffering in the short run. After Link lost, things went downhill immediately, with Ganon seizing the ToW from Zelda and taking over Hyrule. This forced Zelda to lead her people into battle against Ganon and sealing him up in the sacred realm along with the Triforce, thus severing her people from their kingdom's most holy artifact in the process. Not to mention how many lives were lost. Also, the DT makes a huge deal about the bloodline of the Hylian thinning out, which probably occurred in all three timelines anyways but the DT is the only one were it's given significant attention. It might have been because the IW drove the pure blood Hylians to near exstinction wheras in the other timelines it just seems like there was a massive immigration of round-eared muggle types that probably intermarried with Hylians.


Still better than genociding most of the world's population and irrevocably blasting most of the world's history and culture straight to hell. :P

I'd take a fairly brief war and the thinning of a species over that. It's not like Hylians post- and pre- blood-thinning are really all that different. Most of them never made use of their alleged magical gifts anyway. Big whoop.

This is why I like pinning the DT games on my CT line like I do in my timeline. It doesn't implicitly justify the failure of a hero.

But most importantly, I'm really annoyed that OOT:3DS doesn't have a "Link fails" Alternate Ending. It'd of been a perfect add-on for new content and it came out roughly the same time as HH anyway so why in the fuck not? Unless the whole thing is purely an asspull they come with at the last second....


Do we actually know there was a genocide in the AT?

#9 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 01:53 AM

We know the "Chosen people" were told to go to the mountaintops so as not to drown. "Chosen people" implies "unchosen people". Meaning people drowned.

Especially since there's more inhabited land on the surface than you can fit on the mountaintops.

#10 SOAP

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 03:15 AM

We know the "Chosen people" were told to go to the mountaintops so as not to drown. "Chosen people" implies "unchosen people". Meaning people drowned.

Especially since there's more inhabited land on the surface than you can fit on the mountaintops.


The entire Hylian race are all chosen people by definition. That leaves out non-Hylians. The Kokiri were taken care of by the Deku Tree and became the Koroks. The Zora either evolved into Rito or just chilling under the sea depending on what your theory is. Whatever. The Gorons and Gerudo are tough to say. The Gorons return as as civilization in PH and ST so it could be they survived and just moved elsewhere beyond the Great Sea and while maintaining economic trade with their former neighbors via the Goron Merchants in TWW. That just leaves the Gerudo, but they've disappeared and reappeared as a race without notice in the other timelines. They're nomads. It's what they do. There might be less land but that doesn't mean the majority of them just sat their and died as the waters came crashing on them. They could have set sail for distant lands. We see what's left of Hyrule under the sea. It's empty except for Ganon's army that's frozen in suspended animation. It looks more like Ganon's army laid seige on Hyrule Castle only to find it empty. The only people we know that are left behind at the time of the flood, is Ganon, his army, King Daphnes, and the Sages of Earth and Wind. And none of them are killed by the flood itself.

#11 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 02:47 PM

There's still the problem of Hyrule's history and culture being destroyed and reset forever. And unless Hyrule rested in this huge swath of land that's several meters below sea level, the flood fucked over every other country in the world that didn't get any divine warning.

Hope you didn't like Holodrum and Labrynna too much, lololol.

#12 Sir Turtlelot

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 04:03 PM

It's the lack of reasoning is what bothers me though. Having Link lose to Ganondorf at the end of OoT, thus leading into ALttP works fine and all, but what we're missing is how that scenario even came to be in the first place. We have solid explanations for how the AT and the CT are formed, but the DT is just randomly tossed out there. The explanation for how it leads into ALttP is exclusive to the HH, so I don't see why there shouldn't have been an explanation for how the split itself came to be, complex or not.

#13 joeymartin64

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:25 PM

And unless Hyrule rested in this huge swath of land that's several meters below sea level, the flood fucked over every other country in the world that didn't get any divine warning.


I always kind of assumed that it either was, or that the flood, being divine in origin, didn't affect the rest of the world. I mean, we see water magically suspended above old Hyrule. No reason they couldn't have "walled off" the area, so to speak, in a similar fashion.

And it's totally not reset forever. Single timeline for life, motherfuckers.

#14 SOAP

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 06:29 AM

There's still the problem of Hyrule's history and culture being destroyed and reset forever. And unless Hyrule rested in this huge swath of land that's several meters below sea level, the flood fucked over every other country in the world that didn't get any divine warning.

Hope you didn't like Holodrum and Labrynna too much, lololol.


That's pretty much what I believe anyways, so yeah. That, or more likely, they didn't put much thought about how flooding Hyrule affects the rest of their fictional world. They just wanted Hyrule flooded to justify the whole sailing thing.

In either case, it does not matter because the flood thing happens long after Link's victory in the AT and has more to do with the fact that Ganon returned and no hero came to challenge him than anything in OoT. This is something that could have happened in any timeline but happened to happen in the AT. So I don't think the AT is any worse off than the DT. Both are pretty unfortunate but the DT is definitely bad at the beginning specifically because Link lost.

It's the lack of reasoning is what bothers me though. Having Link lose to Ganondorf at the end of OoT, thus leading into ALttP works fine and all, but what we're missing is how that scenario even came to be in the first place. We have solid explanations for how the AT and the CT are formed, but the DT is just randomly tossed out there. The explanation for how it leads into ALttP is exclusive to the HH, so I don't see why there shouldn't have been an explanation for how the split itself came to be, complex or not.


Well think of it this way. The DT is an alternative history to either the CT or AT instead of a what-if. I say AT because the two are very simmilar, despite the whole flood thing, and both end up with the people of Hyrule abandoning their old country for a new land. You could imagine that the DT is the traditional view where Link lost in OoT and Hyrule went into a deep state of decline, eventually forcing the people to move to other lands. The old gods are depicted as distant, uninvolved, and having left humanity up to it's own devices. Christian symbols start popping up later in history as if the people of Hyrule had given up on the old gods. Even the naming of the princesses was attributed to a tragedy in the royal family as if to dissociate the royal family and the Goddess Hylia.

Then we have the AT, which could be a revisionist view on history that sprung up after new evidence was found. The Old Lands were abandoned because of a divine flood. The Gods intervened directly and some of the minor ones even dwelled among the people. The Hero of Time, a folk hero closely associated with Old hyrule and the Old Gods, actually won against Ganon.

The two historical views become a much heated debate, boiling down to a dispute between the traditionalistic Christian worldview that seemed to regard the Old Ways and the Old Gods as dark and pagan nonsense, going as far to associate anything related to the old gods as flawed and currupt. Then we have a revived interest in the OLd Gods and the Old ways, with a much more romantic and heroic look at ancient Hyrule and it's heroes.

Edited by SOAP, 12 July 2012 - 06:47 AM.


#15 Fin

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:54 PM

so what you're saying is, hylians are as obsessed with debating the timeline as the fans?

how meta. ;d

#16 Snow

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 02:26 PM

so what you're saying is, hylians are as obsessed with debating the timeline as the fans?

how meta. ;d



Guys, guys... maybe we are the Hylians.

#17 Sir Deimos

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 02:41 PM

So long as Nintendo doesn't "flood" our Hyrule with mediocrity, I'm ok with it.

#18 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:54 PM

I always kind of assumed that it either was, or that the flood, being divine in origin, didn't affect the rest of the world. I mean, we see water magically suspended above old Hyrule. No reason they couldn't have "walled off" the area, so to speak, in a similar fashion.


So, what, there's this huge cylinder of water that goes into the sky around where Hyrule used to be? Even if that wasn't ridiculous, we know that the world is primarily oceans beyond Hyrule thanks to Spirit Tracks.

In either case, it does not matter because the flood thing happens long after Link's victory in the AT and has more to do with the fact that Ganon returned and no hero came to challenge him than anything in OoT. This is something that could have happened in any timeline but happened to happen in the AT. So I don't think the AT is any worse off than the DT. Both are pretty unfortunate but the DT is definitely bad at the beginning specifically because Link lost.


But no hero showed up because of OOT Link's victory. So... um... yea.

#19 SOAP

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:07 PM

I always kind of assumed that it either was, or that the flood, being divine in origin, didn't affect the rest of the world. I mean, we see water magically suspended above old Hyrule. No reason they couldn't have "walled off" the area, so to speak, in a similar fashion.


So, what, there's this huge cylinder of water that goes into the sky around where Hyrule used to be? Even if that wasn't ridiculous, we know that the world is primarily oceans beyond Hyrule thanks to Spirit Tracks.

In either case, it does not matter because the flood thing happens long after Link's victory in the AT and has more to do with the fact that Ganon returned and no hero came to challenge him than anything in OoT. This is something that could have happened in any timeline but happened to happen in the AT. So I don't think the AT is any worse off than the DT. Both are pretty unfortunate but the DT is definitely bad at the beginning specifically because Link lost.


But no hero showed up because of OOT Link's victory. So... um... yea.


We don't know that. One could have showed up and died or just failed. Just like the DT. Or it could've been just bad timing that Ganon showed up and no new hero arised. The only reason it'd be tied to Link's victory is if the next hero was supposed to be Link's decendants and Zelda sending LInk to an alternate timeline kept him from producing a bloodline. Or the people literal thought OoT Link could travel through time and could come back at a moments notice, so no one thought of taking up the mantle of Hero because they thought a time traveling Jesus/superman figure would come and save them.

#20 Masamune

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:35 PM

I think really it comes down to the fact the goddesses don't know what they're doing and cause more harm than good when they get involved.

#21 Fin

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:44 PM

I think really it comes down to the fact the goddesses don't know what they're doing and cause more harm than good when they get involved.


i honestly think that most of the time.

#22 joeymartin64

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:17 PM

So, what, there's this huge cylinder of water that goes into the sky around where Hyrule used to be? Even if that wasn't ridiculous, we know that the world is primarily oceans beyond Hyrule thanks to Spirit Tracks.


Could be. It's no more "ridiculous" than what we see in the game. And the makeup of the rest of the world is totally irrelevant. Really, though, I always did prefer the idea that it was just at a lower elevation that its surroundings, because the wall thing is pretty silly. Both possible, though.

Or the people literal thought OoT Link could travel through time and could come back at a moments notice, so no one thought of taking up the mantle of Hero because they thought a time traveling Jesus/superman figure would come and save them.


And this is has actually always been my stance. The TWW BS happened long after OoT Link's natural death, and the people at the time had the wrong idea about what "Hero of Time" meant.

Edited by joeymartin64, 12 July 2012 - 08:18 PM.


#23 SOAP

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 12:12 AM

And really, most of what happens in Hyrule gets treated like isolated events regardless of the effects on a global scale. TWW isn't alone in this.

#24 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:43 AM

We don't know that. One could have showed up and died or just failed. Just like the DT. Or it could've been just bad timing that Ganon showed up and no new hero arised. The only reason it'd be tied to Link's victory is if the next hero was supposed to be Link's decendants and Zelda sending LInk to an alternate timeline kept him from producing a bloodline. Or the people literal thought OoT Link could travel through time and could come back at a moments notice, so no one thought of taking up the mantle of Hero because they thought a time traveling Jesus/superman figure would come and save them.


The implication I got throughout most of TWW is that Link's returning to his timeline prevented his soul from reincarnating in the Adult Timeline, meaning that TWW Link had to be made from scratch or something.

I think really it comes down to the fact the goddesses don't know what they're doing and cause more harm than good when they get involved.


My only problem with this is that they seem to be portrayed as both "Omnibenevolent" and "Omniscient", and we know they're Omnipotent. Zelda being Hylia does give an insight into the psychology of the goddesses, somewhat.

I like to think that they're personal deities despite their gnostic roles, but they're pursuing some sort of "Best Possible World" scenario.

...Oh my god can we have a theological debate about the moral virtues of the Goddesses? Please? XD

And really, most of what happens in Hyrule gets treated like isolated events regardless of the effects on a global scale. TWW isn't alone in this.


Still, even if none of that flood water flooded the rest of the world, that would REALLY fuck up the biosphere. Like that's an entire ocean of water from NOWHERE. It's going to mess up the rain cycles, the heating of the planet, it's oxygen distribution....

But then Hyrule doesn't have to follow real world physics anyway. But hey, I'm looking for reasons to bitch about the DT timeline being less destructive than the AT timeline, lemme have it. :P

#25 SOAP

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 08:08 AM

The implication I got throughout most of TWW is that Link's returning to his timeline prevented his soul from reincarnating in the Adult Timeline, meaning that TWW Link had to be made from scratch or something.


We don't know if Link's soul reincarnating is a requirement. It seems Link is either a blood descent or reincarnation of a previous Link or an entirely no hero with no connection to a past Link, depending on what's convenient for the plot.

My only problem with this is that they seem to be portrayed as both "Omnibenevolent" and "Omniscient", and we know they're Omnipotent. Zelda being Hylia does give an insight into the psychology of the goddesses, somewhat.

I like to think that they're personal deities despite their gnostic roles, but they're pursuing some sort of "Best Possible World" scenario.

...Oh my god can we have a theological debate about the moral virtues of the Goddesses? Please? XD.


There's whole articles on that subject. Since they're higher tier creator deities, I don't they're personal gods. Even SS refers to them as the Old Gods, as if they're something in far past, kinda like how we refer to Zeus or Odin as Old Gods. It kinda makes them seem very distant and somewhat esoteric. Since the Golden Goddesses are creator deities with literally reality warping powers, it stands to reason that the reason they rarely act directly is because they're too powerful and might overdo it. For that, lesser gods, servant spirits and mortal heroes are used as sorta middlemen who act in their behalf without undoing the whole universe.

Still, even if none of that flood water flooded the rest of the world, that would REALLY fuck up the biosphere. Like that's an entire ocean of water from NOWHERE. It's going to mess up the rain cycles, the heating of the planet, it's oxygen distribution....

But then Hyrule doesn't have to follow real world physics anyway. But hey, I'm looking for reasons to bitch about the DT timeline being less destructive than the AT timeline, lemme have it. :P


Well think about this: If they sailed from the Great Sea islands to a nearby continent that later becomes New Hyrule, what exactly happened to that same landmass in the other two timelines? It would be a frozen wasteland. The entire Lokomo civilization would have never existed in those timelines if we're talking sea levels rising on a global scale.

However, if Old Hyrule was in a deep valley below sea level, then whatever landmass the Lokomo inhabited in the other timelines would be at sea level, just bordered by high cliffs instead of an sea at one side.

#26 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:26 PM

We don't know if Link's soul reincarnating is a requirement. It seems Link is either a blood descent or reincarnation of a previous Link or an entirely no hero with no connection to a past Link, depending on what's convenient for the plot.


Same thing, really. Many religions believe you're predisposed to reincarnating within your own family, and either way TWW Link doesn't meet those requirements.

There's also the Demise's curse retcon. There's no Link-Soul to reincarnate to face his incarnation of hatred. Loloops.

There's whole articles on that subject. Since they're higher tier creator deities, I don't they're personal gods. Even SS refers to them as the Old Gods, as if they're something in far past, kinda like how we refer to Zeus or Odin as Old Gods. It kinda makes them seem very distant and somewhat esoteric. Since the Golden Goddesses are creator deities with literally reality warping powers, it stands to reason that the reason they rarely act directly is because they're too powerful and might overdo it. For that, lesser gods, servant spirits and mortal heroes are used as sorta middlemen who act in their behalf without undoing the whole universe.


That's an interesting perspective, but the Oracles and the nature of the Triforce seem to indicate it's not the case. If you believe the Oracles are incarnations of the goddesses, they can interact with us just fine, and the fact that they've answered prayers or can apparently communicate through the Triforce is what makes me think they're Personally invested in Hyrule, even if they're esoteric or eldritch.

My personal thoughts are that they do nothing but create worlds and go around doing that like it's an artform, but since they're empathizing entities, they feel morally obligated to the well-being of their creations, so that's why they intervene, leave the Triforce, weave a destiny where good is usually triumphant, set up a rewarding afterlife and/or reincarnation, etc.

I don't think they're 'too powerful', though, since Farore is specifically described as gentle and the Triforce is all about maintaining the stability of the universe and blah blah. Given their behavior and how every Zelda game seems to be set up, along with the requirements and characteristics of the Triforce, they seem to very much be a "do it yourself" set of deities. They'll never 100% fix a problem. They'll just give you the means to do it yourself. They respect free agency, choice, determination, and personal growth to overcome obstacles ourselves.

They set things up to give their people the means to overcome evil. If they fail, then Ganondorf deserved to win. The TWW backstory is a very notable exception.

Well think about this: If they sailed from the Great Sea islands to a nearby continent that later becomes New Hyrule, what exactly happened to that same landmass in the other two timelines? It would be a frozen wasteland. The entire Lokomo civilization would have never existed in those timelines if we're talking sea levels rising on a global scale.


That's...not really true. And even if it was, civilizations have existed in high-altitude tundras before. Incas, biatch.

#27 SOAP

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:48 PM

Agree with you %100 on the Goddesses.

Disagree about New Hyrule. If you're talking about Old Hyrule's flooding affecting more than just Hyrule, that's some serious For Want of a Nail shit going on.

#28 Fin

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 05:05 PM

Given their behavior and how every Zelda game seems to be set up, along with the requirements and characteristics of the Triforce, they seem to very much be a "do it yourself" set of deities. They'll never 100% fix a problem. They'll just give you the means to do it yourself. They respect free agency, choice, determination, and personal growth to overcome obstacles ourselves.

They set things up to give their people the means to overcome evil. If they fail, then Ganondorf deserved to win. The TWW backstory is a very notable exception.


agree entirely with this, though i particularly want to emphasise their people. they're primarily concerned with hyrule and the hylians, and though that doesn't mean they can't occasionally show concern for the non-chosen peoples, such as the twili, i've gotten the impression that in general they display a bit of a devil may care attitude to the other people of their world.

Edited by Fin, 13 July 2012 - 05:06 PM.


#29 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 08:26 PM

Disagree about New Hyrule. If you're talking about Old Hyrule's flooding affecting more than just Hyrule, that's some serious For Want of a Nail shit going on.


....Um. It's called climate. When you introduce an entire ocean's worth of water to a biosphere that didn't have it before, it fucks everything up. This isn't comparable to any normal flood in history, it's UNTOLD LEAGUES OF WATER BEING CREATED EX NILIHO.

Assuming Earth-like physics are in play, such a thing would effect the entire planet's temperature, fuck up how countless organisms live and evolve, effect the geography of the planet (physical landmass would actually erode and change over the years), and would greatly diminish the level of oxygen that's available.

Soooo yea. That WOULD fuck up 'New Hyrule' in a realistic setting, along with every other place on the planet to some degree.

agree entirely with this, though i particularly want to emphasise their people. they're primarily concerned with hyrule and the hylians, and though that doesn't mean they can't occasionally show concern for the non-chosen peoples, such as the twili, i've gotten the impression that in general they display a bit of a devil may care attitude to the other people of their world.


Well, they gave the Twili guardian deities, and multiple species such as the Zoras and the Kokiri and such have their blessings. Even the Gerudo seem to be blessed by Din or something.

Are we SURE they show the Hylians special treatment, or is this a dogmatic conceit the Hylians came up with? Their supposed proof of this is that their ears make them psychic and shit but only Zelda and Link really make the most use of this and are themselves above and beyond everyone else in terms of 'specialness'. The common Hylian isn't really distinguishable from humans in any meaningful way aside from ear aesthetics.

#30 Fin

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 08:34 PM

either way, blessing of the gods or no, hylians are elitist dicks.




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