50 replies to this topic

[MikePetersSucks]

Alright, thank GOD.

[Veteran]

Is Link holding a Wii remote?

[Showsni]

But does he have the Goron's Bracelet?

[Thanatos-Zero]

But does he have the Goron's Bracelet?

When he was send to the Child Timeline, the Goron Bracelet was no longer on him. Both N64 and 3DS.

[SOAP]

Is Link holding a Wii remote?

Wait a minute! What IS he holiding? I don't remember him having anything in his hand in the N64 version.

[joeymartin64]

He's not holding anything. That's part of the Hylian Shield on his back.

Edited by joeymartin64, 23 June 2011 - 11:30 PM.

[arunma]

*Raien pops his head in*

So you guys are changing your timeline theories based on a small detail change in a third-party remake of a fourteen year old game? Did you guys really learn nothing from the ALttP GBA remake debacle? Remember how Lex tried to argue that entire plot points hinged on trivial changes made for the remake?

But what am I saying? The "divine prank" thesis was my keystone argument, along with the point that the kingdom of Hyrule was "the Sacred Realm" described in Twilight Princess. After Link in OoT closed the Door of Time, Ganondorf resorted to invading Hyrule with his army. Without the Triforce of Power, he was defeated, only becoming strong again when the "divine prank" occurred and caught the Sages completely off-guard.

And to all the guys who say that the writing sucks, you only just worked that out? The last Zelda game built an entire mythology around trains. What more do you need?

*Leaves topic*

Well, I might as well pop into Storyline for the first time in forever...

Part of me wants to buy the 3DS just so I can figure out what the hell is up with this. It's an interesting question though: what effect do remakes have on the game? Does one assume the remake to reflect the writers' best intent and disregard the old stuff? Back in the day (like 9 years or so ago), I remember having many conversations with Davogones on the issue of canonicity. What can be used to construct a storyline, and what can't? The games and instruction manuals are allowed, but if I remember correctly, a game designer's later comments and opinions aren't. I think we agreed, though, that if Miyamoto or someone else makes a clarification on an ambiguity, that can be accepted as canon. I wonder if revisions to existing games would fall in this category.

[joeymartin64]

We always said new trumped old, remember? Admittedly, it didn't really come up until the GBA version of ALttP, but that was pretty much how we figured it. We didn't use the term "retcon" back then, but that's what it was. Also, the way people look at canon seems to have changed considerably since our day. Creators' words are considered hard canon by almost everyone these days. Of course, being the stubborn bastard I am, I still don't go for that, but that's neither here nor there.

Edited by joeymartin64, 25 June 2011 - 01:00 AM.

[Fin]

I don't believe Nintendo have ever changed the plot of a port in Japan. The only plot-related changes that have usually been made have been to the translations. Oh, and guess manuals tend to have less wordy plot summaries in ports, but I think that's pretty common in ports from most companies. Personally, I just go for the original version of each game.

[arunma]

Also, the way people look at canon seems to have changed considerably since our day. Creators' words are considered hard canon by almost everyone these days. Of course, being the stubborn bastard I am, I still don't go for that, but that's neither here nor there.

Heh...young whippersnappers

[joeymartin64]

Ha ha ha.

Why, back in my day, all we had was the NOA localization of ALttP! And you know what? We liked it! Maybe the Wise Men were the Sages! Maybe they weren't! We didn't know, but we were happy, by gum!

[Snow]

In other news, OoT Link's age has now been confirmed to be 9 as a child and 16 as an adult. Not that it ever mattered, but still.

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/zelda-ocarina-of-time/4/1

Yes. When we decided to handle Link growing up from a 9-year-old child to a more mature 16-year-old, I wanted lots of characters to fulfill various roles. For example, Kaepora Gaebora is a grandfather figure who gives Link all kinds of advice and looks out for him. And since Link is a boy, I wanted girls besides Princess Zelda to show up.

He also mentioned that NES Link is about 12 years old in LoZ and about 16 in AoL, which to be fair isn't particularly relevant either. It does tell us that roughly 4 years passed between the first two games, but eh.

Edited by Snow, 28 June 2011 - 03:22 PM.

[Fin]

AoL Link is 16. TP Link is supposedly 16. Am I the only not surprised that OoT Link is 16?

[TheAvengerLever]

Sixteen is the official age of the hero.

9 is the age of meddling kid.

[Average Gamer]

Hey, does anyone know if you can now see the Spiritual Stones from the Master Sword chamber as child and adult Link? If so, are they present in the ending or not?

[Jarsh]

I just checked, and you can see the Spiritual Stones from the Master Sword chamber as both a child and adult. I remember noting that you can see the Spiritual Stones are not in the Temple of Time in the ending when Zelda sends you back, but I'll be checking it again to be sure since I'll be beating Master Quest soon.

[Snow]

Hey, does anyone know if you can now see the Spiritual Stones from the Master Sword chamber as child and adult Link? If so, are they present in the ending or not?

I've heard that they're there when you pull the sword and not during the ending, but I haven't had the chance to see it for myself. I do know that they're nowhere to be found in the cutscene where you get the light arrows, though.

[Theorizing_is_just_a_hobby]

Walkthrough videos show that the spiritual stones are viewable from the master sword pedestal in OoT 3d, both as Child and Adult Link. They're still missing in the ending scene and the light arrow scenes as before. There can easily be theoretical and non-theoretical explanations for their disappearances, just like the missing gold gauntlets and bracelet and hover boots.

Theoretical - Sky scene: He put his hover boots away because they're useless, he's already floating in the sky or whatever. He removed the gold gloves because he doesn't have a quest anymore so there is no need to wear them, and this is another hover boots reason. He changes clothes and crap all the time. Returning to the past scene: No bracelet because it fell off due to zelda's ocarina time warp. In majoras mask, random crap just falls out of him when the ocarina time warp is used there too. Another reason is Zelda removed the bracelet in the sky scene just before sending him back like she removed the adult timeline master sword from him. The spiritual stones are missing because he was returned to a time when they're still with their tribes. Light arrow scene: Those three stones are missing when Sheik is there, and they reappear again after she/he/bisexually/ left thanks to horny ganondorf. Obviously she cloaked them beforehand, forcing Link to run like an idiot toward the altar, then she talked to him, and of course her power went away as she got trapped in the sexual torture crystal.

Non-Theoretical - Sky scene: All that crap is missing to provide less distractions when Zelda puts her/his/not sure if gay hand on him and it looks silly to have one person wear hover boots when they're both already floating. Returning to the past scene: There's no bracelet because they don't want anything else on his hands when they're going to show the triangle mark on him later, they might as well remove it one scene earlier. The stones are missing because they want to show he was returned to before stealing those girly gems, and Zelda is in the courtyard shows he was returned to before they met, since any other reason for her appearance is pure horse manure. Light arrow scene: Again they don't want too many shiny objects in one scene, they want to give more importance to showing off a piss-stained arrow.

I'm not one of those "Hey I can't figure out how things work so I'll just declare it TEH PROGRAMMING GLITCH ERROR HERP E DERP, was never involved with making the game but its ok I am voted teh best theorist by nobodys"

[MikePetersSucks]

Sheik is there, and they reappear again after she/he/bisexually/ left thanks to horny ganondorf.

Zelda's a bisexual? Awesome.

[eruntalon]

Zelda's a bisexual? Awesome.

Link should totally have a threesome with Zelda and Sheik.

On the topic of canon, I've always seen remakes as effectively "replacing" the original when it comes to continuity. I make an exception with the case of BS LoZ because replacing Link in the story goes so obviously against developer intent that we can safely toss it out. And even then, I suppose there's nothing explicitly saying that the male player isn't just Link in a totally different getup, even if the implicit intent is obviously for it to be one of the Satellaview mascots. If you feel the need to shoehorn it in, though, there's your out.

EDIT: Son of a bitch, I didn't realize this topic was so old. Sorry for the necropost!

Edited by eruntalon, 19 August 2011 - 11:11 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

We don't mind necroposts so long as they have content, don't worry about it.