50 replies to this topic

[Snow]

Not sure if OoT's ending still counts as spoilers, but the recently released (technically unreleased)OoT3DS features some neat stuff in he ending from what I've seen. Most notably is the fact that Link doesn't have the Triforce mark on his hand after travelling back in time. I've personally always believed that Link didn't have it at that point and that the Triforce wasn't split up until Ganondorf's execution seen in TP, and the fact that the mark now is absent from Link's hand most certainly seems to support this idea. As far as I know, there is now no reason to believe that the Triforce had split at that point.

Here's a link to the ending credits of OoT3DS (which, of course, contains spoilers). The relevant scenes begin around 7:42:

[Jarsh]

Is it possible the quality's just bad enough we can't see the Triforce mark? I can't really tell either way.

[joeymartin64]

Yeah, that was my thought, too. It's clearly not there in the Temple of Time, but that was also the case in the N64 version, and the video's too blurry to be conclusive in the courtyard scene. Could be that nothing's changed.

Edited by joeymartin64, 14 June 2011 - 05:31 PM.

[Snow]

That's what I thought initially, but after rewatching it a few times I really can't make out even the slightest hint of a Triforce mark on his hand.

[Doopliss]

Well, just wait, it's no doubt going to be clear in the actual Nintendo 3DS screen, or Nintendo will really suck. And no, I'd say OoT's ending counts as spoiler as much as, say, Star War's ending.

[FDL]

Terrible news, really. It makes Twilight Princess' story much worse and is a complete unnecessary, unexplained twist. It also contradicts what was said in every game about the Triforce, which is that the Triforce waits in the Sacred Realm and won't shatter until it's touched. All for some ridiculous "prank" from characters who never did such trivial things in any other instance of them being involved in the plot. And it also contradicts the statement in Twilight Princess about the hero from the past having the power of the gods just like the Link of TP does. In general, very disappointing decision by Nintendo. I know some people will only see this as an opportunity to pat themselves on the back for guessing correctly, but the fact is the "divine prank" was an extremely unnecessary, poorly defined/explained, and generally frustrating "plot device"(which I have to use in quotes because it wasn't even needed to advance the plot so it's not really a device). Unfortunate.

[Snow]

I'm fairly certain that the ancient hero was merely chosen by the Goddesses; I don't think they ever said that he had their power. I don't think it has ever been stated that the Triforce can only be split up by touching it either, so I wouldn't call the divine prank contradictory. Besides, the "prank" fits with the whole deal about Zelda, Link and Ganondorf being chosen by the Goddesses, which is a major theme in TP; I'd say it only enhances the story, personally.

[Average Gamer]

Besides, the "prank" fits with the whole deal about Zelda, Link and Ganondorf being chosen by the Goddesses, which is a major theme in TP; I'd say it only enhances the story, personally.

The thing is, the "Divine Prank" was completely unnecessary. It did absolutely nothing for Hyrule other than harm and divide it at least a century later, and it brought entirely needless damage to the Twilight Realm, with a good chunk of (if not the majority of the population) being transformed into Twilit Messengers and killed by Link. It also led to the pointless death of a Sage atop the Arbiter's Grounds.

With the OoT prophecy, those events were arguably in response to Ganon naturally being born and wanting to conquer the world. The Divine Prank, on the other hand, would be solely due to the Goddesses making it to happen for the sake of it happening. Ganon also wasn't a chosen one in OoT either; he was just the person who touched the Triforce. According to the prophecy, anyone could touch the Triforce and receive at least one piece from it while the chosen ones would receive the remaining pieces.

[Snow]

While it's true that Ganondorf got his piece by touching the Triforce in OoT, that doesn't mean he wasn't chosen to have the ToP. After all, Link, Zelda and Ganondorf being chosen to have a piece of the Triforce each is a major theme throughout the series as a whole, especially in TP. And while the divine prank may not have been needed to save Hyrule or anything, it was needed to maintain the destiny of the three chosen bearers and the whole balance between light and dark that Ganondorf speaks about in his final monologue in TP.

With that said, I do agree that TP's story could have been a lot better had it not been so rushed. The divine prank explanation isn't exactly the best plot element in the series or anything, but I'd still say that it's better than the alternative.

[FDL]

I'm fairly certain that the ancient hero was merely chosen by the Goddesses; I don't think they ever said that he had their power. I don't think it has ever been stated that the Triforce can only be split up by touching it either, so I wouldn't call the divine prank contradictory. Besides, the "prank" fits with the whole deal about Zelda, Link and Ganondorf being chosen by the Goddesses, which is a major theme in TP; I'd say it only enhances the story, personally.

Faron claims that the ancient hero had the power of those chosen by the gods just like the Link of TP, which usually indicates the Triforce. He even alludes to it in reference to the power which saved Link from becoming a specter within the darkness, which we know is the Triforce. And I'm pretty sure the legend of the Triforce in ALttP and OoT claims that it waits in the Sacred Realm for one worthy to claim it, with this "Divine Prank" that sacred tenet is now contradicted for the sake of one specifically said not to be worthy. I actually enjoy TP's story aside from this "divine prank" business, not sure what alternative would be worse to it. Especially because, as I mentioned previously, it goes pretty much unexplained why such a "prank" would be pulled and how it works. Furthermore, the alternative wouldn't require this removal in OoT3D at all. In general OoT3D does look great and I love how much more detail has been added to Hyrule, but this retcon leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Edited by FDL, 19 June 2011 - 07:40 PM.

[Average Gamer]

While it's true that Ganondorf got his piece by touching the Triforce in OoT, that doesn't mean he wasn't chosen to have the ToP. After all, Link, Zelda and Ganondorf being chosen to have a piece of the Triforce each is a major theme throughout the series as a whole, especially in TP.

Actually, he's never really chosen in any of the games. In LoZ he just outright took the ToP after invading Hyrule, in ALttP he was basically a guy who got the Triforce out of sheer chance, in OoT he was guaranteed a piece no matter what because he touched the Triforce, etc. TP's perhaps the only game where you could possibly make an argument about him being chosen.

And while the divine prank may not have been needed to save Hyrule or anything, it was needed to maintain the destiny of the three chosen bearers and the whole balance between light and dark that Ganondorf speaks about in his final monologue in TP.

It didn't really maintain any balance from the OoT era. The Hero of Time and Princess of Destiny were long since dead, and the whole deal with the Hero's Shade suggests that the Hero of Time may not have been reincarnated as the Hero of Twilight. Also, Ganon speaks of the history of Light and Darkness, not the balance of it.

[Snow]

Faron claims that the ancient hero had the power of those chosen by the gods just like the Link of TP, which usually indicates the Triforce. He even alludes to it in reference to the power which saved Link from becoming a specter within the darkness, which we know is the Triforce.

Fair enough, I see how it could be interpreted as such. Either way, I don't think it creates any problems with the idea of Ganondorf getting the ToP during the execution scene sine it'd only mean that Link got it at that point too.

And I'm pretty sure the legend of the Triforce in ALttP and OoT claims that it waits in the Sacred Realm for one worthy to claim it, with this "Divine Prank" that sacred tenet is now contradicted for the sake of one specifically said not to be worthy.

ALttP does say something like that yeah, but it doesn't necessarily imply that it can't be split by other means. I think Nintendo changed the nature of the Triforce in a lot of ways after ALttP (and OoT, arguably), though.

I actually enjoy TP's story aside from this "divine prank" business, not sure what alternative would be worse to it. Especially because, as I mentioned previously, it goes pretty much unexplained why such a "prank" would be pulled and how it works. Furthermore, the alternative wouldn't require this removal in OoT3D at all. In general OoT3D does look great and I love how much more detail has been added to Hyrule, but this retcon leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Eh, I'd say the whole deal about the three being destined explains the prank perfectly. To be honest, I think the divine prank works as a fitting counterpart to the Adult Timeline's flood, in a way.

Actually, he's never really chosen in any of the games. In LoZ he just outright took the ToP after invading Hyrule, in ALttP he was basically a guy who got the Triforce out of sheer chance, in OoT he was guaranteed a piece no matter what because he touched the Triforce, etc. TP's perhaps the only game where you could possibly make an argument about him being chosen.

While it's true that the stories themselves never made him out to be chosen in any of the games save for TP, the underlying theme is that Link, Zelda and Ganondorf are all linked to a piece of the Triforce. Like Aonuma said:

Well, each piece of the Triforce has a relationship to each of the main characters and Ganon is one of those.

So while the idea of him being chosen was new in terms of story, it still fit with the whole "Chosen by the Goddesses" theme that is present throughout the series in general and Twilight Princess in particular.

It didn't really maintain any balance from the OoT era. The Hero of Time and Princess of Destiny were long since dead, and the whole deal with the Hero's Shade suggests that the Hero of Time may not have been reincarnated as the Hero of Twilight. Also, Ganon speaks of the history of Light and Darkness, not the balance of it.

Eh, OoT Link and Zelda died after Ganondorf had been sealed away, so the balance wasn't really disrupted by that. I don't really see see how the Hero's Shade comes into play here either; I wouldn't say that reincarnation is a necessity to uphold this balance. And as for the balance itself, I was mostly referring to this line:

When one who holds the chosen power appears...
Necessarily, one to accomplish the antithesis of that will be born.

Which I'd say fits in with both the "divine prank" and the whole balance theme quite nicely.

Edited by Snow, 20 June 2011 - 02:31 AM.

[SOAP]

I think the reason the "Divine Prank" plot device was introduced was to justify the Sages and Hyrule's soldiers being able to subdue, imprison, and almost execute Ganondorf. They probably could not have done so if he had the Triforce of Power in his possession the whole time.

Edited by SOAP, 20 June 2011 - 03:37 AM.

[FDL]

ALttP does say something like that yeah, but it doesn't necessarily imply that it can't be split by other means. I think Nintendo changed the nature of the Triforce in a lot of ways after ALttP (and OoT, arguably), though.

I don't see too much of a difference, really. It elaborated on all that "forger of strength", "juror of courage" business but didn't fundamentally change it. This divine prank stuff makes it seem less like the divine relic that governs their world and more like a really powerful toy they pass around when they think it'll be funny. And I really feel that Ganondorf actively going after the Triforce has always been a very important point to the mythos of the series.

Eh, I'd say the whole deal about the three being destined explains the prank perfectly. To be honest, I think the divine prank works as a fitting counterpart to the Adult Timeline's flood, in a way.

The thing is, the destiny argument actually goes against the split timeline idea in the first place. If they were truly destined, then nothing Link could have done would have dramatically changed the events of OoT. As it stands, nothing that we know of the child timeline OoT or of Twilight Princess explains why precisely Ganondorf's would still need to be chosen, most of the attempts at explaining that I've seen just seem flimsy and convoluted. And if you actually look at it as a prank, it's a really poor portrayal of the goddesses. Even if they don't stop every problem themselves, never are they seen playing tricks on the Hylians who are most directly working for them.

I think the reason the "Divine Prank" plot device was introduced was to justify the Sages and Hyrule's soldiers being able to subdue, imprison, and almost execute Ganondorf. They probably could not have done so if he had the Triforce of Power in his possession the whole time.

I feel like that's not really substantiated enough to be a sure thing, though. A chosen hero may be the only one who can truly fell Ganondorf with the ToP, but if Link mustered the forces of good against Ganondorf as opposed to the way they just sorta surrendered with ease in the adult timeline I would think they could temporarily subdue him. We've seen in other games that the Triforces don't quite bestow godlike power with ease, it's not like Link got a huge power boost the second he obtained his Triforce. While it's possible the more games we see the more likely it is you're right, back when TP was being written there was little reason to believe Ganondorf can't be subdued at least temporarily if he's freshly obtained a Triforce. So there was no need to retcon the Triforce already being split in my eyes.



We really don't have to agree, and I don't want to seem like I'm just whining or whatever, but hopefully I've at least explained why I think it's a really poor story element that doesn't really work well at all with the other connections to ALttP and OoT the game has. The more they deduct from the child portion of OoT timeline-wise, though, the more I feel like they really should maybe take OoT3D's engine and make a third game featuring that Link. The way Twilight Princess speaks of the hero, he clearly did something major in Hyrule even in the child timeline and bore the power of the gods.

Edited by FDL, 20 June 2011 - 11:36 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

Alternative explanation of the Divine Prank incident: While Link doesn't have it in that cutscene, perhaps seven years later the Triforce split to prevent temporal paradox, and Ganondorf didn't realize he had it until later? Uh...

I don't know, Nintendo fucked up.

[Average Gamer]

I feel like that's not really substantiated enough to be a sure thing, though. A chosen hero may be the only one who can truly fell Ganondorf with the ToP, but if Link mustered the forces of good against Ganondorf as opposed to the way they just sorta surrendered with ease in the adult timeline I would think they could temporarily subdue him.

They didn't surrender to Ganon, he conquered them all. Castle Town is razed to the ground in the future, and Hyrule Castle has been almost completely annihilated. The way various characters refer to the splitting of the Triforce, the fall of Hyrule, etc. as "That day seven years ago," it would appear that Ganon conquered the land on the same day he obtained the ToP. He was also able to freeze the Zora with ease later. Even when the Seven Sages were united and thought they had the element of surprise, their plan was still to depend on the Hero of Time to weaken Ganon with the Master Sword and Light Arrows so they could seal him. It should be noted that the Sages did not know that Ganon was immortal at that time, which suggests that they believed that Link wouldn't be able kill Ganon or get a clear win.

We've seen in other games that the Triforces don't quite bestow godlike power with ease, it's not like Link got a huge power boost the second he obtained his Triforce. While it's possible the more games we see the more likely it is you're right, back when TP was being written there was little reason to believe Ganondorf can't be subdued at least temporarily if he's freshly obtained a Triforce.

There's a difference between the ToC and the ToP, and the Triforce pieces seem more like multipliers to me. Rather than using some separate power of the ToP, Ganon's dark magic is still his own.

[Snow]

I don't see too much of a difference, really. It elaborated on all that "forger of strength", "juror of courage" business but didn't fundamentally change it. This divine prank stuff makes it seem less like the divine relic that governs their world and more like a really powerful toy they pass around when they think it'll be funny. And I really feel that Ganondorf actively going after the Triforce has always been a very important point to the mythos of the series.

Yeah, I suppose the nature of the Triforce changed the most between LoZ/AoL and ALttP, but the whole Triforce designation thing didn't really seem to be an important element prior to OoT.

The thing is, the destiny argument actually goes against the split timeline idea in the first place. If they were truly destined, then nothing Link could have done would have dramatically changed the events of OoT. As it stands, nothing that we know of the child timeline OoT or of Twilight Princess explains why precisely Ganondorf's would still need to be chosen, most of the attempts at explaining that I've seen just seem flimsy and convoluted. And if you actually look at it as a prank, it's a really poor portrayal of the goddesses. Even if they don't stop every problem themselves, never are they seen playing tricks on the Hylians who are most directly working for them.

Eh, I don't see why the destiny thing has to be explained. After all, they've never explained why Link, Zelda and Ganondorf reappear numerous times throughout the history of Hyrule; there's not really any need to explain any of those things. Also, I'd say the motive behind the "divine prank" is covered both by the sole fact Ganondorf actually is chosen and his final speech in TP.

I feel like that's not really substantiated enough to be a sure thing, though. A chosen hero may be the only one who can truly fell Ganondorf with the ToP, but if Link mustered the forces of good against Ganondorf as opposed to the way they just sorta surrendered with ease in the adult timeline I would think they could temporarily subdue him. We've seen in other games that the Triforces don't quite bestow godlike power with ease, it's not like Link got a huge power boost the second he obtained his Triforce. While it's possible the more games we see the more likely it is you're right, back when TP was being written there was little reason to believe Ganondorf can't be subdued at least temporarily if he's freshly obtained a Triforce. So there was no need to retcon the Triforce already being split in my eyes.

But if Ganondorf had the Triforce at that point, things would have happened almost exactly the way they did on the Adult Timeline. I really don't see how Link could've been able to put up a fight against Ganon without even having the Master Sword, especially at that age. Even the kingdom of Hyrule fell almost directly after Ganondorf obtained the ToP in OoT, so I'd say it's quite a stretch to assume that he could've been stopped that easily. It also kind of goes against the whole point of going back in time to alter the events that helped Ganondorf get the Triforce, anyway.

We really don't have to agree, and I don't want to seem like I'm just whining or whatever, but hopefully I've at least explained why I think it's a really poor story element that doesn't really work well at all with the other connections to ALttP and OoT the game has. The more they deduct from the child portion of OoT timeline-wise, though, the more I feel like they really should maybe take OoT3D's engine and make a third game featuring that Link. The way Twilight Princess speaks of the hero, he clearly did something major in Hyrule even in the child timeline and bore the power of the gods.

Yeah, I'm not overly fond of the divine prank as a plot element either, although I definitely prefer the idea of Ganondorf obtaining the ToP during the execution scene over the alternatives.

[FDL]

They didn't surrender to Ganon, he conquered them all. Castle Town is razed to the ground in the future, and Hyrule Castle has been almost completely annihilated. The way various characters refer to the splitting of the Triforce, the fall of Hyrule, etc. as "That day seven years ago," it would appear that Ganon conquered the land on the same day he obtained the ToP. He was also able to freeze the Zora with ease later. Even when the Seven Sages were united and thought they had the element of surprise, their plan was still to depend on the Hero of Time to weaken Ganon with the Master Sword and Light Arrows so they could seal him. It should be noted that the Sages did not know that Ganon was immortal at that time, which suggests that they believed that Link wouldn't be able kill Ganon or get a clear win.

Impa says the castle surrendered and Zelda/Sheik says the darkness flowing forth from the temples slowly/gradually covered the world in darkness. Nothing implies Ganondorf just blew everything up in a day, far as I can tell. You have argued in the past that Hyrule Castle surrendered the same day Impa escaped with Zelda, in which case it seems like they barely put up a fight. With Link knowing details of Ganondorf's darkness flowing from the temples, the building of his demon tribe within the SR, the hideout of him and his followers, and what sort of power to expect I don't know how he wouldn't be a huge help even without the body and blade of the Hero of Time. Just by getting the Arbiter's Ground Sages into a posse with knowledge of Ganondorf and his power Link would be dramatically changing events.

There's a difference between the ToC and the ToP, and the Triforce pieces seem more like multipliers to me. Rather than using some separate power of the ToP, Ganon's dark magic is still his own.

Okay then, Link's power has never been multiplied. The ToC clearly isn't just for appearances, it must have some power as well as the other two do.

Eh, I don't see why the destiny thing has to be explained. After all, they've never explained why Link, Zelda and Ganondorf reappear numerous times throughout the history of Hyrule; there's not really any need to explain any of those things. Also, I'd say the motive behind the "divine prank" is covered both by the sole fact Ganondorf actually is chosen and his final speech in TP.

The Link/Zelda/Ganon reappearances don't really seem exclusive to them, though. Lots of characters reappear in some form throughout the history of Hyrule. I think if they go into detail explaining that even Link and Zelda were only chosen after Ganondorf actively took the Triforce then they need to explain why the goddesses suddenly have a love of pranking people.

But if Ganondorf had the Triforce at that point, things would have happened almost exactly the way they did on the Adult Timeline. I really don't see how Link could've been able to put up a fight against Ganon without even having the Master Sword, especially at that age. Even the kingdom of Hyrule fell almost directly after Ganondorf obtained the ToP in OoT, so I'd say it's quite a stretch to assume that he could've been stopped that easily. It also kind of goes against the whole point of going back in time to alter the events that helped Ganondorf get the Triforce, anyway.

Well that's the other thing, Zelda and Aonuma both say it wasn't some grand scheme to change time. It was simply a bid to return Link to the age he was mentally. And I still really don't think the game implies that Ganondorf used overwhelming force if the castle surrendered.

Yeah, I'm not overly fond of the divine prank as a plot element either, although I definitely prefer the idea of Ganondorf obtaining the ToP during the execution scene over the alternatives.

I don't really see why. It mucks around with several references to other games in TP itself and the idea that Ganondorf is immediately an omniscient super-demon after getting the ToP is never really implied in the games. The execution scene really does resemble Ganondorf's second wind after burying himself under the tower, and in that case he had the Triforce of Power in his possession the entire time.

Edited by FDL, 21 June 2011 - 11:20 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

Okay then, Link's power has never been multiplied. The ToC clearly isn't just for appearances, it must have some power as well as the other two do.

It refills his hearts at dramatic moments. :3

[Raien]

*Raien pops his head in*

So you guys are changing your timeline theories based on a small detail change in a third-party remake of a fourteen year old game? Did you guys really learn nothing from the ALttP GBA remake debacle? Remember how Lex tried to argue that entire plot points hinged on trivial changes made for the remake?

But what am I saying? The "divine prank" thesis was my keystone argument, along with the point that the kingdom of Hyrule was "the Sacred Realm" described in Twilight Princess. After Link in OoT closed the Door of Time, Ganondorf resorted to invading Hyrule with his army. Without the Triforce of Power, he was defeated, only becoming strong again when the "divine prank" occurred and caught the Sages completely off-guard.

And to all the guys who say that the writing sucks, you only just worked that out? The last Zelda game built an entire mythology around trains. What more do you need?

*Leaves topic*

[Snow]

The Link/Zelda/Ganon reappearances don't really seem exclusive to them, though. Lots of characters reappear in some form throughout the history of Hyrule. I think if they go into detail explaining that even Link and Zelda were only chosen after Ganondorf actively took the Triforce then they need to explain why the goddesses suddenly have a love of pranking people.

Sure, the reappearances may not be exclusive to them, but it's still an unexplained theme. And I don't really see the need to explain for further explanations of the "divine prank" beyond the fact that Ganondorf was destined to have the ToP and therefore had to get it before he died.

Well that's the other thing, Zelda and Aonuma both say it wasn't some grand scheme to change time. It was simply a bid to return Link to the age he was mentally. And I still really don't think the game implies that Ganondorf used overwhelming force if the castle surrendered.

Zelda does imply that he has to alter the past to prevent Ganondorf though, and Aonuma seems to imply that the alteration was intentional too.

I don't really see why. It mucks around with several references to other games in TP itself and the idea that Ganondorf is immediately an omniscient super-demon after getting the ToP is never really implied in the games. The execution scene really does resemble Ganondorf's second wind after burying himself under the tower, and in that case he had the Triforce of Power in his possession the entire time.

Eh, OoT basically says that the ToP was the sole reason the Ganondorf could conquer Hyrule and he has displayed Godlike powers in both TP and other games (like creating a perpetual night in WW, for example). I'd say that the whole deal with evil overflowing all the temples of Hyrule the moment Ganondorf got the ToP definitely implies that he has godlike powers from the very beginning.

[Fin]

And to all the guys who say that the writing sucks, you only just worked that out? The last Zelda game built an entire mythology around trains. What more do you need?

/topic

[FDL]

Sure, the reappearances may not be exclusive to them, but it's still an unexplained theme. And I don't really see the need to explain for further explanations of the "divine prank" beyond the fact that Ganondorf was destined to have the ToP and therefore had to get it before he died.

Well I think that in and of itself adds a really bizarre twist to the whole "evil guy searching for the Triforce" bit.

Zelda does imply that he has to alter the past to prevent Ganondorf though, and Aonuma seems to imply that the alteration was intentional too.

What makes you say that?

Eh, OoT basically says that the ToP was the sole reason the Ganondorf could conquer Hyrule and he has displayed Godlike powers in both TP and other games (like creating a perpetual night in WW, for example). I'd say that the whole deal with evil overflowing all the temples of Hyrule the moment Ganondorf got the ToP definitely implies that he has godlike powers from the very beginning.

But OoT says it covered Hyrule in darkness over the course of years if I'm not mistaken.

[Average Gamer]

Impa says the castle surrendered and Zelda/Sheik says the darkness flowing forth from the temples slowly/gradually covered the world in darkness.

Hyrule Castle was still standing and controlled by the forces of Hyrule when Impa left, and considering how thoroughly devastated the whole area was, it would appear that, contrary to her statement, Ganon conquered the land. At most the survivors surrendered when it became clear that Ganon was going to crush the rest of them like bugs. As for the temples, while the corruption of the regions wasn't an instantaneous process, Ganon was still the master of Hyrule before that.

Nothing implies Ganondorf just blew everything up in a day, far as I can tell.

Characters refer to the day when the Triforce split, Hyrule fell, they had to flee to Kakariko, etc. as "That day seven years ago." Considering that the same term is used for various things, it implies that they all happened on the same day. Also, Ganon was freakishly powerful and effectively invincible with the ToP, and even when he was as close to death as he could be he was capable of destroying his entire tower fortress. Obliterating Hyrule Castle and Castle Town at 100% would presumably be a piece of cake.

With Link knowing details of Ganondorf's darkness flowing from the temples,

That wouldn't help, as Ganon would already be the ruler of the land by that point.

and what sort of power to expect

A power they can't harm and can destroy them with ease?

Just by getting the Arbiter's Ground Sages into a posse with knowledge of Ganondorf and his power Link would be dramatically changing events.

If the Arbiter's Grounds Sages are separate from the Sacred Realm Sages, I don't see how they would make a major difference when the superior Sages couldn't. If they're the same order, they were probably the first to fight Ganon on the AT, considering that their HQ is in the Sacred Realm, and it would appear that only Rauru survived.

Okay then, Link's power has never been multiplied.

It's the Triforce of Courage, so it would presumably enhance his bravery more than anything else.

So you guys are changing your timeline theories based on a small detail change in a third-party remake of a fourteen year old game?

No, I just think the guys making OoT 3DS messed up.

Edit: New information from ZU.

I'm the one who beat the game (100% on the normal quest, in fact!).

The Triforce mark doesn't appear directly on his hand, it's magically projected - kind of like how it is on the other characters in various cutscenes. As a result it's translucent, and given that it's not especially highlighted in this scene (it's really small) you can't see it in the grainy video. I honestly almost didn't even notice it, and I was LOOKING for it.

The Spiritual Stones also don't appear in the Temple of Time, but given that the "Link lacks the Golden Gauntlets in the last Adult scene with Zelda" inconsistency was carried over I think it's pretty likely that these scenes were largely remodeled versions of the older cutscenes, programming oversights and all, and thus it's impossible to judge solely based on that.

So it would appear that the Triforce mark is still there.

Edited by Average Gamer, 21 June 2011 - 09:58 PM.

[FDL]

If that's the case I guess this is just returning to the status quo, in which case our debate is the same damn one we've all had a thousand times that I'm sure we're all sick of. If you want I can respond to the whole shebang despite our lack of knowledge on whether they even removed the Triforce from the scene, or we can just not continue the "can Ganondorf be subdued by anyone except Link" thing. It's up to you, AG and Snow.

[joeymartin64]

So you guys are changing your timeline theories based on a small detail change in a third-party remake of a fourteen year old game?

A change that may not have actually been made, as the only video so far is of poor enough quality to be inconclusive, no less.

[Snow]

So it would appear that the Triforce mark is still there.

That's a shame. I thought it was a bit odd for them to change the Triforce mark when they left a lot of other outdated things in. Anyway, seems like I jumped to conclusions a bit too early on this one. Sorry about that, everyone.

[joeymartin64]

Aaand that's what I get for not reading the later responses in the topic, I guess. Eh. Still, Jarsh and I were right, so, uh... in your faces?

[Fin]

I'm glad they left it alone (well, actually, since I don't intend to purchase a 3DS, I couldn't care less, but anyway). I follow the literal divine prank reading of TP as well, but I don't think they should butcher OoT's ending to reinforce it. The Triforce mark on Link's hand during the end scene had a particular meaning to OoT's story, and altering that to service the story of a different game is stupid.

[Thanatos-Zero]

I got from Mahrla, another OoT 3D player, the confirmation.

Here the picture.




Since the screen of the 3DS is so small, along with the way brighter colours, it became more difficult to see the mark actually. That is leviates above the hand makes it even more difficult, so I have added red circles to improve your focus.

The left half of picture shows the original version, while the right half is the mirrored Master Quest version.