64 replies to this topic

[SOAP]

And I've already seen a lot of theorizing coming from this trailer, mostly about the new character in it. One that sticks out is that the new character could be the spirit of the Gilded Sword, but most of us who played MM should be able to throw that one out pretty quickly. Do people on the forums always jump the gun about theorizing on upcoming Zelda games? I remember that with ST, but I don't know about some of the others since I wasn't around this part of the net at the time. Just curious.

Oh it's been that way ever I can remember. I was part of the community back before MM came out (not this one but I was around the 'net) and people were still debating whether or not there were multiple Links and shipping wars were all the rage (if you don't know what shipping is don't ask. You don't want to know trust me). I don't remember if it was like that with MM, but as soon as trailers came out Oracles, people immediately thought it continued off of MM. Which actually wouldn't had ben that wild of a speculation at the time considering MM was released not that long before. I think it really started with TWW. I remember fans noticing Links sheild in the trailers and there were some speculating about it's similarities to old shool LOZ Link's sheild, except a dragon looking thing instead of a cross. Heck there were some people speculating TWW came BEFORE OoT! Talk about your kooky theories, it was a mad house back in the day. So yeah this is pretty normal.

[martinDTanderson]

I saw this mentioned on a few other sites, that this new character which IGN thought may be Vaati, could actually be The Gilded Sword, similar to how we believe that female character is The Master Sword.

[Veteran]

If this x is the sword isn't already a meme, I am disappointed.

[SOAP]

I saw this mentioned on a few other sites, that this new character which IGN thought may be Vaati, could actually be The Gilded Sword, similar to how we believe that female character is The Master Sword.

Okay now do one for Link and I'll be impressed.

[Fin]

[SOAP]

I'm having trouble visualizing that one Fin. It needs some sloppily copy&pasted side by side shots and half-assed squiggly lines in mspaint, otherwise it doesn't mke a lick of sense.

[CID Farwin]

NO MAN THIS IS TOTALLY LEGIT!



LINK IS TEH MASTER SWORD!

[joeymartin64]

Y'know, Ive got to admit that I do see the resemblance with regard to the design elements. I just sincerely doubt it means a damn.

[ganonlord6000]

And I've already seen a lot of theorizing coming from this trailer, mostly about the new character in it. One that sticks out is that the new character could be the spirit of the Gilded Sword, but most of us who played MM should be able to throw that one out pretty quickly. Do people on the forums always jump the gun about theorizing on upcoming Zelda games? I remember that with ST, but I don't know about some of the others since I wasn't around this part of the net at the time. Just curious.

Oh it's been that way ever I can remember. I was part of the community back before MM came out (not this one but I was around the 'net) and people were still debating whether or not there were multiple Links and shipping wars were all the rage (if you don't know what shipping is don't ask. You don't want to know trust me). I don't remember if it was like that with MM, but as soon as trailers came out Oracles, people immediately thought it continued off of MM. Which actually wouldn't had ben that wild of a speculation at the time considering MM was released not that long before. I think it really started with TWW. I remember fans noticing Links sheild in the trailers and there were some speculating about it's similarities to old shool LOZ Link's sheild, except a dragon looking thing instead of a cross. Heck there were some people speculating TWW came BEFORE OoT! Talk about your kooky theories, it was a mad house back in the day. So yeah this is pretty normal.

I heard about when you had to deal with things similar to that over at VGF. I recently joined that site and they have seriously mellowed down since then. And the part about the TWW being before OOT is kooky now, but wasn't it going to be before OOT at one point? I heard that TP speculations were among the worst. Kind of makes me glad I wasn't a member of any of the Zelda forums in the 2006-2007 era.

I saw this mentioned on a few other sites, that this new character which IGN thought may be Vaati, could actually be The Gilded Sword, similar to how we believe that female character is The Master Sword.

That character has a better chance of being Vaati, who I hope is in the game, (having a hand in the creation of two of the sacred swords in the series would be pretty interesting) than the Gilded Sword. Why? The Gilded Sword on MM wasn't created UNTIL MM. Not to mention it was originally the Kokiri Sword and was created as part of a side quest.

[Ransom]

I don't really see The Wind Waker in it at all. The Wind Waker's grphical style was pretty much defined by two things:

1. Very stylized character proportions
2. Use of celshading to create solid blocks of color.

Neither of those are apparent in Skyward Sword. It uses Twilight Princess style models. The textures/lighting/graphical effects have lots of (wonderful) color in them, but they don't have solid color: there is shading. This is TP with a colorful veneer thrown over. Which is a huge improvement, to be sure, but not a mix of the Wind Waker and TP.

Ok, yeah it doesnt really look like TWW at all in a design sense. However something about the brighter tone and the movement of the characters reminded me a lot wind waker in juxtaposition to the same elements in tp.
Seems to capture more of that fluid vibe?

But yeah thats probably just me.

[SOAP]

That character has a better chance of being Vaati, who I hope is in the game, (having a hand in the creation of two of the sacred swords in the series would be pretty interesting) than the Gilded Sword. Why? The Gilded Sword on MM wasn't created UNTIL MM. Not to mention it was originally the Kokiri Sword and was created as part of a side quest.

Why not? The sword may not exist but the spirit could predate the actual sword. Besides, references to MM get thrown in all the time it seems, no matter how minor. He could also be the Kokiri Sword. Perhaps if he is the villian, he gets severely powered down after Link defeats him and the sword is then entrusted to Kokiri. Then in MM, the swords gets tempered and returns to it's original strength.

Personally I'm holding out for a whole race of sword people. Why not? we've had rock people, fish people, bird people, heck even train people.

I don't really see The Wind Waker in it at all. The Wind Waker's grphical style was pretty much defined by two things:

1. Very stylized character proportions
2. Use of celshading to create solid blocks of color.

Neither of those are apparent in Skyward Sword. It uses Twilight Princess style models. The textures/lighting/graphical effects have lots of (wonderful) color in them, but they don't have solid color: there is shading. This is TP with a colorful veneer thrown over. Which is a huge improvement, to be sure, but not a mix of the Wind Waker and TP.

Ok, yeah it doesnt really look like TWW at all in a design sense. However something about the brighter tone and the movement of the characters reminded me a lot wind waker in juxtaposition to the same elements in tp.
Seems to capture more of that fluid vibe?

But yeah thats probably just me.

Naw I see it too. It's basically Wind Waker meets TP in my book. I didn't really like it since it seems like they're trying too hard to please both sides of the fanbase at once but... It's growing on me. I'm more stoked about it being an OoT prequel and taking place in the frakking sky, hellz yeah!

Edited by S.O.A.P.R. China, 08 March 2011 - 11:34 AM.

[ganonlord6000]

Why not? The sword may not exist but the spirit could predate the actual sword. Besides, references to MM get thrown in all the time it seems, no matter how minor. He could also be the Kokiri Sword. Perhaps if he is the villian, he gets severely powered down after Link defeats him and the sword is then entrusted to Kokiri. Then in MM, the swords gets tempered and returns to it's original strength.

Personally I'm holding out for a whole race of sword people. Why not? we've had rock people, fish people, bird people, heck even train people.

The fact that the Gilded Sword was part of a side quest doesn't mean anything? Kokiri Sword, possibly since it's a little more important than the Gilded Sword. I'm all for this idea, though. A whole race of Sword beings could be good. The only possible exception is the FS as we already know how that sword was made. I'm still leaning to the Vaati idea a little, though. That is mostly because he needs an appearance in the main series and his symbol seems to pop up all over the place. If he's in the game or even mentioned, I think the debates on TMC's placement will be over.

Another interesting idea I heard is that this game will feature the dark interlopers mentioned in TP. Logically, that makes sense since the Master Sword doesn't truly exist yet in this game. That incident would have to occur before the MS was left as the key to the SR as there is no way a whole tribe of evil beings, or the fused shadows would have made it past it. One evil person making it through is one thing, but a whole tribe, not a chance. Hmm. anyone else notice how a war over the Triforce seems to repeat itself later on?

[Fin]

Those guys never made it to the Sacred Realm. The 'holy land' that scene was referring to was Hyrule itself.

[joeymartin64]

He's a new character, and he has nothing to do with any established backstory. We go through this every time, thinking maybe we'll get some more details on a bit of the mythos that another game mentioned, and it never, ever happens. You can take this one to the bank.

[Fin]

^ This man speaks the truth.

[ganonlord6000]

Those guys never made it to the Sacred Realm. The 'holy land' that scene was referring to was Hyrule itself.

I was just reading the translation for that and it is starting to get a little confusing. Holy Land is the Japanese name for the SR, and that was used in the US text. Not to mention this Holy Land was where the Triforce was left. Did Nintendo mess up with they're mythos when making that scene?! And now it makes very little sense as to why the triforce was in that scene. It certainly seems they were after the Triforce, though. Maybe that incident was the reason the SR was sealed off in the first place?

He's a new character, and he has nothing to do with any established backstory. We go through this every time, thinking maybe we'll get some more details on a bit of the mythos that another game mentioned, and it never, ever happens. You can take this one to the bank.

I'm just bringing up the similarities. I would usually agree with what you're saying, but SS seems to be different since it seems to be story based. I'm beginning to think that is the reason it took 20 years for Nintendo to get to the story of the MS's origins. I just don't want a new villain at this point considering how poorly the last two were handled. Malladus was okay, but Bellum was a very cheep ripoff of Vaati, and not a good one either.

[SOAP]

He's a new character, and he has nothing to do with any established backstory. We go through this every time, thinking maybe we'll get some more details on a bit of the mythos that another game mentioned, and it never, ever happens. You can take this one to the bank.

Wow. Totally missing the point in having fun. I don't think anyone is taking any of their speculating seriously. At least not in this message board. Personally I'm sure whatever actually turns up in the final game would be loads better than anything we cook up.

[ganonlord6000]

He's a new character, and he has nothing to do with any established backstory. We go through this every time, thinking maybe we'll get some more details on a bit of the mythos that another game mentioned, and it never, ever happens. You can take this one to the bank.

Wow. Totally missing the point in having fun. I don't think anyone is taking any of their speculating seriously. At least not in this message board. Personally I'm sure whatever actually turns up in the final game would be loads better than anything we cook up.

Yeah. When is the last time we took anything seriously around here? Wait, don't answer. But seriously, I think most of you can see the direction I'm coming from regarding villains.

[joeymartin64]

He's a new character, and he has nothing to do with any established backstory. We go through this every time, thinking maybe we'll get some more details on a bit of the mythos that another game mentioned, and it never, ever happens. You can take this one to the bank.

Wow. Totally missing the point in having fun. I don't think anyone is taking any of their speculating seriously. At least not in this message board. Personally I'm sure whatever actually turns up in the final game would be loads better than anything we cook up.

No, not really. I agree that it would be cool to have this guy and this game expand on something one of the previous games brought up (Master Sword origin aside). I just seriously doubt, based on what's happened in the past, that it will happen. For every new release since at least since TWW (possibly before that), we've all gone over the loose plot threads other games brought up, or tiny bits of backstory they didn't really delve into, and thought about how cool it'd be for the new game to give us some more detail on them. It's never happened, though, and I doubt it will happen this time. Some of what ganonlord says is true though; they are going out of their way to portray the origin of the Master Sword, so maybe they are going for a more series-spanning story-based approach. I'm not getting my hopes up, but I'd be happier than anyone to see me proven wrong about this.

[SOAP]

He's a new character, and he has nothing to do with any established backstory. We go through this every time, thinking maybe we'll get some more details on a bit of the mythos that another game mentioned, and it never, ever happens. You can take this one to the bank.

Wow. Totally missing the point in having fun. I don't think anyone is taking any of their speculating seriously. At least not in this message board. Personally I'm sure whatever actually turns up in the final game would be loads better than anything we cook up.

No, not really. I agree that it would be cool to have this guy and this game expand on something one of the previous games brought up (Master Sword origin aside). I just seriously doubt, based on what's happened in the past, that it will happen. For every new release since at least since TWW (possibly before that), we've all gone over the loose plot threads other games brought up, or tiny bits of backstory they didn't really delve into, and thought about how cool it'd be for the new game to give us some more detail on them. It's never happened, though, and I doubt it will happen this time. Some of what ganonlord says is true though; they are going out of their way to portray the origin of the Master Sword, so maybe they are going for a more series-spanning story-based approach. I'm not getting my hopes up, but I'd be happier than anyone to see me proven wrong about this.

Oh then it's me that missed your[ point and took your post too seriously. LoL, my bad.

[Fin]

I was just reading the translation for that and it is starting to get a little confusing. Holy Land is the Japanese name for the SR, and that was used in the US text. Not to mention this Holy Land was where the Triforce was left. Did Nintendo mess up with they're mythos when making that scene?!

One important thing to remember is that 'holy land' is actually a pretty generic title. In fact, the exact Japanese words are 聖地 (seichi), which literally means 'sacred place' and can also be used to refer to shrines, temples, and the like. The term was also used in Twilight Princess to refer to the Goron mines.

汝求めし黒き力は　誇り高き山の種族の聖地にあり
The black power you seek lies in the sacred grounds of the proud mountain race.

With this in mind, it seems to me that the Sacred Realm actually plays no role whatsoever in Twilight Princess. The game instead uses that term to refer to Hyrule itself, which is actually rather fitting, given that Hyrule is the land of the chosen people, and intimately connected to the Triforce. Hyrule may be connected to a hidden holy land, but it makes perfect sense to think of Hyrule itself as a holy land too.

And now it makes very little sense as to why the triforce was in that scene. It certainly seems they were after the Triforce, though. Maybe that incident was the reason the SR was sealed off in the first place?

I actually don't think the Triforce was literally involved in that conflict. If you sync up Jumbie's translation with the visuals of that scene you'll notice that the Triforce first appears onscreen at the same time as we are told that the people were very 'faithful'. When the Triforce finally disappears it's being covered by the Fused Shadow, which serves a similar symbolic function to the Mirror of Twilight (known as the Mirror of Gloom in Japan). The idea seems to be that the Triforce represents the people's faith. Near the end of the war the people had lost all faith, and their despair is symbolised by the rising helm obscuring the Triforce.

I think the text is the only thing we can really go by to understand what literally went on during that war, and the text notably only describes the conflict as a war over Hyrule. Neither the Triforce or 'the power of the gods' are mentioned.

It's very open to individual interpretation of course. That's just my reading of the scene.

[SOAP]

I actually don't think the Triforce was literally involved in that conflict. If you sync up Jumbie's translation with the visuals of that scene you'll notice that the Triforce first appears onscreen at the same time as we are told that the people were very 'faithful'. When the Triforce finally disappears it's being covered by the Fused Shadow, which serves a similar symbolic function to the Mirror of Twilight (known as the Mirror of Gloom in Japan). The idea seems to be that the Triforce represents the people's faith. Near the end of the war the people had lost all faith, and their despair is symbolised by the rising helm obscuring the Triforce.

I think the text is the only thing we can really go by to understand what literally went on during that war, and the text notably only describes the conflict as a war over Hyrule. Neither the Triforce or 'the power of the gods' are mentioned.

It's very open to individual interpretation of course. That's just my reading of the scene.

So basically it'd be like if they instead showed a big cross on top of the hill being obscured by some Satanic upside down star. I never saw it that way but it makes sense. It's sad that a lot of the religious overtones were waterdown in the English translation, which probably created the whole confusion in the first place. I always forget that the Triforce is a religious symbol in Hyrule as well as a powerful relic.

Edited by S.O.A.P.R. China, 13 March 2011 - 05:41 PM.

[Raien]

I actually don't think the Triforce was literally involved in that conflict. If you sync up Jumbie's translation with the visuals of that scene you'll notice that the Triforce first appears onscreen at the same time as we are told that the people were very 'faithful'. When the Triforce finally disappears it's being covered by the Fused Shadow, which serves a similar symbolic function to the Mirror of Twilight (known as the Mirror of Gloom in Japan). The idea seems to be that the Triforce represents the people's faith. Near the end of the war the people had lost all faith, and their despair is symbolised by the rising helm obscuring the Triforce.

I don't think the Triforce was involved in that war either, but I think it represents the kingdom of Hyrule, since the Triforce is Hyrule's symbol and all. After all, the war was for control of Hyrule, which was why the characters were running towards it. The Fused Shadows rise up when the Shadow Tribe took control of Hyrule.

[FDL]

I'm not in the mood for a huge debate, though I do have nostalgia for our old arguments Raien, but I have to say I disagree with you guys. I think the Twili were a part of the prolonged wars and machinations over the Triforce and Hyrule, the same ones in ALttP and OoT no less. I feel that TP goes to some lengths to continue connecting ALttP and OoT with both imagery and language, as opposed to disavowing those connections. Honestly, though, I'd love it if we got the giant timeline document of legend for the 25th birthday of Zelda celebration. Clear the air, explain the dang connections between games, and thus put us back to zero for the next 25 years of butting heads over creator intent.

[ganonlord6000]

I'm not in the mood for a huge debate, though I do have nostalgia for our old arguments Raien, but I have to say I disagree with you guys. I think the Twili were a part of the prolonged wars and machinations over the Triforce and Hyrule, the same ones in ALttP and OoT no less. I feel that TP goes to some lengths to continue connecting ALttP and OoT with both imagery and language, as opposed to disavowing those connections. Honestly, though, I'd love it if we got the giant timeline document of legend for the 25th birthday of Zelda celebration. Clear the air, explain the dang connections between games, and thus put us back to zero for the next 25 years of butting heads over creator intent.

I've been trying to get this point across for a while as well. I really like your idea for the Zelda series's 25th birthday, though. Nintendo could clear up the current timeline, and I have a feeling that SS will, and then give us a couple new ones down the road that completely mess with us. If they did that....I can't think of anything nice at the moment.

[CID Farwin]

Aw, no love for my mad MSPaint skills?

It would be really nice if Nintendo decided to finally tell us what they're thinking timeline-wise, especially since they're not nearly as clever as they think they are (read: "the girl is the Master Sword"). Might as well get all the nasty retcons out of the way now so I can work on my arguments for why Nintendo has no idea what they're doing with the series.

[Fin]

I liked it, CID.


And as interested as I would be to hear Nintendo's official stance on all this timeline stuff, it wouldn't really affect my interpretations of the stories. I'm less concerned with what they intended to portray, and more with what they ended up portraying.

Edited by Finbarr, 17 March 2011 - 01:25 PM.

[Average Gamer]

Personally, I think that the Triforce and the Sacred Realm did play a part in the war involving the Twili's ancestors, if only because the Triforce is pretty much the ultimate treasure of Hyrule. The Sacred Realm has also been stated to be a part of Hyrule as far back as OoT, and after the Fused Shadows fall in the cutscene, the Triforce is nowhere to be found. I always took that to mean that, after the Light Spirits defeated the Twili's ancestors, the Sacred Realm was locked up and knowledge of how to enter it was either hidden or forgotten.

Anyway, while it would be nice, I can't really see Nintendo revealing info about the overall timeline for the 25th anniversary. Keeping it hidden keeps the fan base active and, more importantly, allows Nintendo to change things around with minimal problems.

[SOAP]

They could at least show a list of how all the games fit in chronological order and let the fans fill in the blanks. Most fan timelines are very simmilar anyways and doubt if they do show us a timeline it would be anything shocking. Or at the very least spill the beans on whether OoT is still the IW or not. That will finally end [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of unneccessary conflict in the fanbase. They confirmed the split timeline so they could do this too.

[joeymartin64]

And yet there are those of us who still reject a split timeline. Ho ho ho.