77 replies to this topic

[SteveT]

I just finished a round of editng on my second novel. If anyone is interested in critiquing the current draft, I might be inclined to send a copy.

[SteveT]

I'd like to call you attention to this thread:

http://forums.legend...-mighty-smiter/

It's a new one.

[Selena]

So I decided to write my novel from a different character's perspective because that voice ended up being 'louder' due to... well, a large combination of things. This is the same story as my last intro excerpt but from a different POV. This is the new version. First two pages:

Spoiler

She couldn't do it. Nanshe had been staring at the same line on the screen, the one that asked her to type in her name, for ten minutes. Her arms started shaking every time she tried to lift them up to the keypad. It was not a matter of cowardice, because there was nothing on Izina that could actually be considered a threat. It was not a matter of insecurity, because she had been one of the academy's most qualified graduates. Her academic scores had been through the roof and her field work, though not the absolute best, was still above average. She could have had any job the local army offered. Everyone joined the military on Izina after they finished their studies. It was expected. She'd already broken tradition by taking a gap year to enjoy her freedom, and she'd only be in the service for two years, so why couldn't she bring herself to fill out the damn forms?

It wouldn't have been so bad on any other planet. She could have been transferred all across the settled galaxy and seen the shining jewels of human civilization. That wasn't an option. Nanshe had the misfortune of being born on Izina, and once you set foot on Izina, whether you were assigned there or born there, you were never allowed to leave. For someone who had adventure in her soul, the thought of patrolling the same plot of land every day threatened to destroy her from the inside out. There were only so many things that the military could do on Izina. Her gap year, full of boundless wandering through the wilderness beyond the cities, had spoiled her.

There was something depressing about doing exactly what everyone else did. She'd seen it play out countless times with the older members of her generation. They did their stint in the military, settled down with whomever they managed to attract while in the service, gave birth to a screaming baby, and went into some mind-numbing construction or colony support career. They all lost their zest for life after a few years of mindless repetition. Why should she follow the rest of society when the path ahead was a miserable one? Any way she cut it, Nanshe did not want to enlist. She only wanted one thing: freedom.

Except...

No, no except. It was her life, and it was her decision. The opinions of other people, even those close to her, were not her concern. They were going to be upset with her for going down an unconventional path, but strategic pouting and shiny gifts would appease most of them. The remaining tempers would be diffused with time. Intuition screamed at her to turn away, and, because it had never failed her before, that was exactly what she did.

Nanshe stood up from the computer terminal and walked out of the large room where a handful of other recent graduates were filling out their enlistment forms. She returned to the lobby, where various family members of all potential enlistees were waiting in long rows of chairs, and went up to the main desk. The officer on duty, quite dapper in the gray and blue uniform worn by all active Iduz personnel, looked up from his work and offered her a smile.

“You're done early,” he said. “Did you receive your confirmation number?”

“I decided not to enlist.”

“You... what?”

“I decided not to enlist. I'm sorry for taking up one of the terminals,” Nanshe said.

He cracked a nervous smile. “I don't understand. You were one of the academy's top graduates last year.”

“I don't really understand either,” Nanshe said, “and I envy you, because you won't have to worry about the reasons. Thank you for your time, sir."

Which I think works better, myself. So that's what I've been working on lately. I've churned about about 40 pages so far.

[Alardonin]

In the last couple of years everything I've wrote has mostly been in English and other languages other than my native--it's helpful and fun at the same time. I love to write too, when I can, but now it's starting to become more of an obligation, simply because of the fact that I have all of these ideas that keep constantly appearing in my head and I have to put them somewhere.

"What do you write? Novels, fanfics, RPs, vidjamagame scripts?"

Mostly short-stories, novels and Scripts.

"What genre do you prefer? Sci-fi, fantasy, horror?"

When it comes to writing, it doesn't make a difference to me. From a point of novels I have two Sci-fi ideas to do, one thriller, two fantasies and quite a few others. A few short-stories as well and I'm planning two scripts right now that I'm probably not going to shoot any time soon. I want to start a novel very soon, but I have no idea yet which of my ideas I'm going to start with--probably one of the two sci-fi ideas, since I've been dying to get them out, but haven't yet pushed myself to do so.

One of them is basically the hardship present in the adaptation of certain sections of human society, when humanity is facing its fastest and most progressive evolutionary stage in the history of the species. The other is... you could say that it's mostly a touching on the subject of the origin of a species while relating it with humanity as a whole, in this case though, I'm using a society built of machines. It's a very superficial translation on both of them, but it will have to do. I've developed a lot of it so far, but I really have to truly start them one of these days.

"What are some of your favorite stories?"

That's really a tough one. I really can't bring it down, it encompasses a lot of genres. But just to say something, I love Sci-fi too: I enjoy Orson Scot, William Gibson, Isac Asimov, Aldous Huxley among quite a few others.

"Any writing pet peeves? What type of stuff annoys you when you're reading?"

Mostly a story and setting I know won't surprise much just by reading the first few chapters. When I'm reading a story, I want it to challenge my ideas, my views, my morality, to keep my imagination flowing and my senses attuned. I also have this thing with stories that lack a lot of humanity traits, where characters are just very boring with no imagination whatsoever or no sense of humor at times. It's kind of like the personification a lot of stories do with military people--the tough kind and very quiet who have absolutely no personality, or whose brains don't amount to much. Coming from a guy who's had a lot of experiences with that kind of people, the image couldn't be more wrong--of course there are exceptions.

I guess the above answers the next question.

[Egann]

So I decided to write my novel from a different character's perspective because that voice ended up being 'louder' due to... well, a large combination of things. This is the same story as my last intro excerpt but from a different POV. This is the new version. First two pages:

It DOES work better. Significantly so; the original--I presume this is a redraft of what you posted on Page 2--didn't really hold personality. This has personality. Perhaps not as much as I'd like, but it's there.

The problem I'd like to stick in your craw should you want to re-write it is that the monologue comes in a disembodied, unplaced voice that seems to be forking over exposition. Had we seen the scene start with her beginning to fill out the form, then get stuck and start to question "why can't I fill out the form?!" it would be better because the monologue would be called for. Personally, I think it's calling for a scene to show us 1) the expectations on this planet, 2) the general attitudes of the people around the narrator, and 3) the narrator's own attitudes.

As that I know you're a sucker for Star Wars examples, I'll give you one. Remember A New Hope when Luke arrives home and starts cleaning off the droids? What is he doing when 3PO is coming out of the bath? He's playing with a model Imperial Shuttle; a child's toy he should have grown out of years before. And not thirty seconds later he admits he hates the Empire. He is so bored out of his mind watching the dew drip out of the moisture-vaporators his fantasies aren't about being an ace fighter pilot for the rebellion, he wants to be A PARTS HAULER FOR PEOPLE HE HATES. It doesn't get much lower than that.

Considering that, in writing, you can get into your characters' heads without problems, I'm sure you can figure out a way to communicate such frustration without needing a--VERY--attentive re-watch to catch what's going on.

[SteveT]

Yeah,I also like it. I'm just worried that maybe you should be a little more explicit what she's not doing earlier. For some reason, and maybe this is irrational, but waiting 8 paragraphs to get to the punchline seems too long.

[Egann]

OK, now for Steve's story. (It took me longer because it is, well. . .longer. Sorry.)


I found it to be genuinely amusing in several places. In a lot of places, really. The beginning and the end in particular. That said, I have 3 problems with it.

1. It's a little too close to religious doctrine for comfort. If you could somehow play off of generic Fantasy divinity, that would be fine, but as that much of the doctrines you play off in the first act are Christian and/ or Greek in derivation, it comes perilously close to hitting a nerve. That--obviously--could be difficult because "generic Fantasy divinity" is usually derived directly from those sources....

2. The narrator's personality is a bit too flat. He always talks about the value of suffering and then proceeds to shout whenever anything goes the least bit wrong for him. . .which obviously means that, to him, either suffering is purely hypothetical and something he hasn't learned from abstraction OR that he inflicts himself with suffering to continue growing himself. Both have strong possibilities, but aren't communicated. If you're sticking with pure humor, I'd say go with the first, but the second has a unique appeal of using humor as a backdrop to make a VERY serious point. Especially considering the story ends.

3. There's a huge section in the middle--the overwhelming bulk of the story--that I just...didn't find funny. Oh, there were enjoyable spots, but by and large reading the middle was a drag compared to the first third and especially compared to the last third. As that I'm not a humor writer myself, I can't exactly put my finger on the problem, but the action of the narrator becoming the Dark Lord/ Smiter-Dude doesn't exactly seem conducive to joking material which says to me "get this part over with as quickly as possible."

[SteveT]

1. It's a little too close to religious doctrine for comfort. If you could somehow play off of generic Fantasy divinity, that would be fine, but as that much of the doctrines you play off in the first act are Christian and/ or Greek in derivation, it comes perilously close to hitting a nerve. That--obviously--could be difficult because "generic Fantasy divinity" is usually derived directly from those sources....

I'm ok with hitting a nerve. I'm not actively trying to offend, but any time you put fake gods in a story, people are going to read into it what they will. I don't see any point in tiptoeing around it.

2. The narrator's personality is a bit too flat. He always talks about the value of suffering and then proceeds to shout whenever anything goes the least bit wrong for him. . .which obviously means that, to him, either suffering is purely hypothetical and something he hasn't learned from abstraction OR that he inflicts himself with suffering to continue growing himself. Both have strong possibilities, but aren't communicated. If you're sticking with pure humor, I'd say go with the first, but the second has a unique appeal of using humor as a backdrop to make a VERY serious point. Especially considering the story ends.

The intent was kind of a combination. I modeled his personality on middle-class suburban teenagers who are discontent with their easy lives, and have this self-destructive romanticized view of suffering. So he's fascinated by suffering and thinks it would somehow benefit him and everyone else, but he only sees the side of it that leads to growth, not the part that sucks. I'll have to go back in and see if I can make that come through better. My goal wasn't so much humor as satire/deconstruction.

3. There's a huge section in the middle--the overwhelming bulk of the story--that I just...didn't find funny. Oh, there were enjoyable spots, but by and large reading the middle was a drag compared to the first third and especially compared to the last third. As that I'm not a humor writer myself, I can't exactly put my finger on the problem, but the action of the narrator becoming the Dark Lord/ Smiter-Dude doesn't exactly seem conducive to joking material which says to me "get this part over with as quickly as possible."

That section is more serious by design. It's where thing stop being fun for Acerbus, too, so he's taking it all a little more seriously. I also have to ask: do you read a lot of fantasy? I spent a lot of time taking pot-shots at fantasy tropes in that section, so that might influence your enjoyment.

Thanks for the comments. I'll keep that all in mind next time I read through it.

[Egann]

Found this and IMMEDIATELY knew I had to share.

Murderous Passives


The room was walked into by a man by whom strong, handsome features were had. The bed was lain upon by her. Then the bed was lain upon by him. Clothing was removed from them both. Sex was had. Climax was achieved. Afterward, cigarettes were smoked by them. Suddenly, the door was opened by the husband of the woman by whom the bed was lain upon. A gun was held by him. Some screams were screamed and angry words exchanged. Jealousy was felt by the man by whom the gun was held. Firing of the gun was done by him. The flying of bullets took place. Impact was felt by bodies. The floor was hit by bodies. Remorse was then felt by the man by whom the gun was held. The gun was turned upon himself.

[SteveT]

The sentences were arranged inefficiently. A very cliche and simplistic plot was written by the author.

[Steel Samurai]

Now I've actually got time, this is a sample of some stuff I've been working on for class this semester. Both of them really work better as feature length scripts than the ten pages they are, but that was the assignment.

Attached Files

•  Succession - Final.pdf   15.5K   2 downloads
•  DreisDraft 3.pdf   16.78K   1 downloads

[Egann]

I'm not really into the script department, but I seem to remember writing a ten page script for one of my classes, myself. Too bad I can't find it on my HD to compare notes....

All of my experience is from interacting with live-action theater, so if this is for cinema throw these comments out the window.

Unless your name is Tennessee Williams, directors, actors, and set designers tend to hate it when the author gets specific with details. The general attitude is "give me a script, let me figure out my own blocking, timing, and props." For instance, when my local theater put on "A Flea in Her Ear," they actually added a spit-take as a recurring gag which was not in the original script. Your job as the writer is to make characters and situations the actors can BEGIN to sink their teeth into and play their parts. You are the writer, but you also aren't making this production alone; you have to give others involved in the creative process creative breathing room.

In general, you're OK with this, but when it comes to being specific about how old characters are (like you did with both samples here) begins to get draconian. Particularly in Dreis, where you give numbers and build information; most acting houses can't afford star-actors of every possible age, sex, race, and physical appearance. Realistically, you have a few good actors who are good and who default into the lead roles, even if there are MASSIVE contradictions with what you've defined them as. Good production values will make up for this, but it would be easier on them if you make your vision less specific to begin with.

FYI: This is a really common problem with scripts. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

Edited by Egann, 12 May 2011 - 09:18 PM.

[SteveT]

These guys are looking for short stories for an anthology themed around Augmented Reality. Sounds like something Selena, in particular, might be into:

http://blackmoonbook.../mirror-shards/

[SteveT]

New old short story over hyar:

http://kalhariaonline.com/wordpress/?p=135

[SOAP]

Okay I have dilemma guys. Whenever I try to start a story, I always end up abandoning it for some new hairbrain idea that comes along. I think I need to pick just one and stick with it but I'm not sure which one is worth investing in. Here are some ideas I've been bouncing around.

Steam
A scifi/fantasy story about humans living on a harsh desert planet that once was a penal colony of a now dead spacefaring civilization. The only drinkable water on the planet is buried deep underground or gushes out of the planet in scolding hot geysers scattered across the surface, giving the planet's it's nickname "Steam." The only descendants of mother Earth, the last humans in the universe are watched over by seven AI wardens who were designed to occasionally "reboot" human civilization by causing global disasters that kept the prison population low enough so they don't deplete all the planet's resources and to keep humans from developing the technology to leave the planet. Over time, the warden become petty and cruel and begin to personify each of the Seven Deadly Sins that they witnessed within humanity. After nearly destroying each other, along with humanity itself, the nearly godlike wardens go into seclusion, allowing mankind to once again flourish to large numbers. A hydraulic steampunk empire forms as well as a religion that worships the wardens as gods, who still speak to humanity via specially ordained prophets. A prophecy is made that a child will be born who will have command of devils and destroy the world. It is commanded by the wardens that the child be put to death before he reaches his thirteenth birthday. A mysterious human/alien hybrid named Koal lives as a pariah in this world and is regarded as demon by humans and he has no knowlege of the other half his ancestory except for ancient myths of demons from the sky that once waged war with the old gods. One day, Koal intervenes when a boy around his age is being chased by church sanctioned missionaries. After saving the boy, the two make a pact to protect each other.

This story I really want to do the most but I discovered it's too similar to two animes, Scrapped Princess and Gun X Sword with maybe some Trigun thrown in. Maybe it's the part of me that's into the whole Crapsack World genre that's picking up elements from these shows. Hopefully my other ideas are more original.

Saudade
Another sci-fi fantasy, this one having a buttload of different idaes I just threw together. Basically it's a parallel world to ours where our moon is larger and has it's own atmosphere and biosphere. This encouraged humans to develop space travel thousands of years earlier. The jump in technology is also explained by monotheism never really taking hold and the Roman Empire never falling. Instead, humans continued to worship the old gods, though as science and reason came into the picture, they mostly became just metaphors. Magic exist but it is no longer mystical but rather a form of science. However, much like in Full Metal Alchemist, only state sanctioned individuals called Craftsmen can perform magic legally. It is also illegal for women to perform magic at all as women are regarded to be connected to a darker, more unpredictable form of magic. People, male or female, who perform magic illegally are called Witches. Once discovered, they are apprehended and sent to Hecate, Earth's evil twin that shares it's same orbit and serves as penal colony of sorts. Enter Karin, a prodigy child of sorts for she is the first female Craftsman sanctioned by her country because her innate ability to create a ghostly hologram of the events of a crime. The way it functions is very much like replaying a surveillance video, as in the ghostly figures in the hologram simply replay the last moments of their life and don't interact with humans. Usually a lot of fancy equipment is needed to perform such a spell but Karin can do it with just her mind alone. Because of this ability, she is sent on assignment to investigate a scurge of serial killing in her hometown which authorities suspect may have been the work of a witch. As she gets deep and deeper into her investigation, however, odd things start happening, and the ghosts begin to talk to her directly, warning her to stop meddling with dark forces beyond her control. Along the way, she meets a man who's wife was one of the victims. As a witch and a heretic who worships a "one true god" he becomes the polices' number one suspect but Karin isn't yet convinced he's the killer because he was too distraught over her death. He does however become obsessed with Karin's as he comes to believe she is the key to bringing back his dead wife. As the two draw closer together, Karin becomes involved in a shadowy world of sex, drugs, forbidden magic, and sacrilege. She also begins to remember a dark secret from her own childhood that ties her to the real killer, who may not even be human at all.

Pilgrimage
A straight up scifi taking place entirely in space. A lost fleet of humans have been drifting through space for countless generations that they no longer remembered where they came from, or where they were heading. All they know is that the heavens around them shift around them as they can see through their portholes and sky domes so they just assume this is just the normal way of things. The ships they reside in are actually alien technology, though their previous occupants no longer reside there. The ships themselves are massive living starships and completely automated to make human life liveable on board, by recycyling water, air, and even dead human tissue to create food. Occasionally they're attacked by another mysterious alien force. No one knows who or what they are or why they attack, only they do so quite frequently, causing the humans to either fight back until their ships automatically "jump" to a new area. As a twist, the living starships can only be interfaced by female humans, and only those who have not yet had intercourse with a man as male DNA seems to currupt the whole process. Instead, women who enroll in a special academy must adhere to a strict form of celibracy as far as heterosexual coupling is concerned. Lesbian relationships are somewhat frowned on but encouraged nonetheless. Once a woman has sex with a man, she automatically loses her ability to interface with the ship's technology and becomes a normal civilian as are the men. Obviously, because of this, boys and girls are kept seperate from birth until they reach a certian age where women are given a choice to either become a pilot, a navigator, or join the male population and live a quite life as a civilian.During times of war, pilots fuse with specialized suits resembling giant mechas, which they use to battle their mysterious foes hand to hand in space, protecting the fleet. Only when the battle is over can they separate again. Navigators make the ultimate sacrifice of being pernamentally fused with their home starship, much akin to the babbling tub ladies from Battlestar Galactica, where they manage all the systems on the ship, from managing atmospheric conditions, to food production, to collaborating with the other navigators to make sure all the ships jump to same area.

Obviously lots of Lesyay in this story.

Undertown-
Loosely based of Alice in Wonderland (as if that hasn't been done to death already), a young girl named Alice chases a mysterious youth with a bunny mask into a parallel world called Undertown where everyone is pretty much insane. No one is crazier than Henry Heart, a gay, trigger happy mafia both who has a penchant for the color red and shooting people in the head when they tick him off. Pretty much a gay version of King Henry the VIII, he has several husbands. Rex Heart is his eldest and probably the most sane person in Undertown. Jackie Heart is a drag queen who likes to cut things, especially herself. Ace Heart is the youngest and most violent. And there's several other men who mostly serve as eye candy and only have a number for a name. When alice stumbles into their world, the Hearts family is already embroiled in a massive turf war with three other gangs: Lucky and Nightclubbers, Stella and the Golddiggers, Jem the Disco Dancers. All four respresenting a suite of cards. The mysterious youth Alice was following is Wyatt, Henry's hitman whose mission is to kill the leaders of the other gangs, only for Alice to show up and get in his way every time. Alice's only friend in this bizarre world is a mysterious jazz player named Chester who tries to convince her she's the key to overthrowing Henry Heart and bringing back the sun which hasn't shined on Undertown ever since Henry came to power.

[deep]

Write all of them. When you get tired/stuck/need a break, you'll have something else.

[SOAP]

Well technically that's what I've been doing but it's been years now and none of them are passed the first paragraph. I need to make an efort to actually come back to one of them.

Here's another idea I had.

Zombies vs. Vampires is the basic premise. It pretty much explains itself with it being a war between mindless zombie masses and superhuman vampire elitists with humans being caught in the middle. But I wanted to do something unpredicteble and make the main character a zombie who has his "soul/mind/personality" forced back into his zombie body just as he just about to be shot by a group of zombie slayers lead by a human sympathizing vampire.

[deep]

If you're only one paragraph in then you aren't writing any of them. Write. Don't think about writing.