77 replies to this topic

[Selena]

*wipes dust off section* There will be life here, dammit.



Well, as evidenced by one of the newer threads in the Commons, we do have at least a few writers on the board! Writers who want to break into the industry, writers who do fanfics, the dedicated RPers, or people who just write as a hobby. Writing can be a lonely activity for obvious reasons. It's you crouched over a keyboard by yourself for several hours. Unless you belong to some kind of writer group, you don't get much of a chance to talk about it. Because the usual reaction from laypersons when you say you're a writer is:

"Oh, you're a writer! What have you published?"
"....Well, nothing just yet."
"Oh. Well, I guess you can always marry someone rich."

I've gotten that before, at least.

So this is a thread like the Single's Club or whatnot. But not for whining about romance. Unless you write whiny romance. And if you do, pick a new genre. It's where the writers of LA can come together to discuss the insane hobby we share.


What do you write? Novels, fanfics, RPs, vidjamagame scripts?

What genre do you prefer? Sci-fi, fantasy, horror?

What are some of your favorite stories?

Any writing pet peeves? What type of stuff annoys you when you're reading?

And what do you prefer instead?

Tips and tricks of the trade?




(Oh, and to save him time on advertising, go buy Steve's book. Or do cover art for it.)

[Elvenlord]

Somewhat surprisingly, I do poetry. Which I think is rather good, and am thinking about trying to get some more done and get some published.
Also, I'm attempting to write a fanfic set in LotR. I got about 2 chapters in, then BAM. College.

Oh, and I think I should say, my fanfic has (almost) none of the main characters in it, and those that are more of background characters. None of this "OMG I SAVED HELM'S DEEP AND MINAS TIRITH AND LORIEN AND MIRKWOOD AND EREBOR AND DALE AND RIVENDELL AND ETC" crap either.

Edited by Elvenlord, 30 November 2010 - 10:06 PM.

[SteveT]

Well, it's no secret that I do some writing. To the questions!

What do you write? Novels, fanfics, RPs, vidjamagame scripts?

I've written one novel, and started another. It's about 2/3 done, thanks for asking. I also do the occasional short story.


What genre do you prefer? Sci-fi, fantasy, horror?

I'm almost pure fantasy.


What are some of your favorite stories?

I enjoy just about anything by Terry Pratchett. David Edding's The Belgariad was one of my favorites, and I read a lot of his other stuff, but I feel like his quality declined pretty sharply over time. George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire is awesome, he just needs to finish book 5 already.

Quite possibly the best book I've ever read is The Picture of Dorian Grey by Oscar Wilde. It's a shame that he wrote mostly plays, because I hate reading scripts. Phenomenal writer, though.

Any writing pet peeves? What type of stuff annoys you when you're reading? And what do you prefer instead?


Things that annoy me:

1) The attitude that Art needs to be incomprehensible. I subscribe to the idea that writing is a form of communication. If you're leaving the reader with the power to decide what exactly the details of your plot are, then you have failed to communicate. I much prefer writers that stimulate conversation about what the book was about, not what happened.

2) Plucky farmboys saving the world from evil overlords. It's been done, and done well. Time to let that trope die. This one got so bad that I had to write my own book to escape. Since then, I've discovered authors more to my taste. If I had found Martin and Pratchett five years ago, I probably never would have felt the need to write my own book.

3) Ralated to the above, shallow villains. No one wakes up one morningand thinks "How can I prove how evil I am today?" Not many people think of themselves as evil. They might think of everyone else as evil, and deserving of punishment. They might think of themselves as inherently superior to other people,and thus have a right to dominate. But authors need to say that. Villains often drive the plot, so I strongly feel that they need to have interesting, rational, clear motives. They also shouldn't commit random atrocities just to make sure the reader will hate them.

4) There's more. I hate everything. No point in listing it all.


Tips and tricks of the trade?

Find someone who you can trust to tell the truth, and make them read your stuff. Get feedback. Listen to the feedback, even if you disagree with it at first. Half of writing is telling a story you want to tell. The other half is telling a story that other people want to hear. It all comes down to writing being a method of communication. If someone didn't understand your totally sweet metaphor, or have to ask what a character's motive is, then you've made a mistake somewhere. Learning to gracefully accept and reflect upon criticism is the only way to improve.

The other part to that is that if you have someone reading your stuff, then you have more motivation to actually write. For me, personally, I fall into despair and stop writing if it's just going to sit on a thumb drive until the day I die. If just one person is reading it, I find myself far more likely to care. My Motivation Buddy got me through writing my first novel, and he's doing the same thing on the second.

[Sir Turtlelot]

I actually do enjoy writing, whenever I can actually make myself sit down and do it. I RP in the Chronicles and I've written several war stories during my senior English class. My teacher recommended that I continue working on it, although I haven't even looked at it since. Maybe I should post here....

I also have several different stories thought up in my head, but I lack the motivation to actually sit down and type them up. I plan to... eventually...

[Egann]

@ Elven: Hey, my best friend does poetry, too, actually.


In any case, there's almost a 90% chance I'll be published in the Spring 2011 Mountain Laurels (My college's periodical of student art and literature. They practically reject nothing, so being published there means just that; nothing. But it's a start.) The short story is already written (well, drafted, anyways.) I've also got two novels in pre-writing stages. A sci-fi action- adventure...which is on indefinite suspension until I can figure out what the crap I want to do with it, and a VERY introspective fantasy work that derives a lot of precursor thought from Trinity Blood and Claymore.

Yeah. Originality's been one of my big concerns. The short story was originally a Final Fantasy VIII fanfiction between myself and the Quistis (Hey, I can dream, can't I?) that kind of bloomed off into an origins story for how Seifer turned bad. Not to derail the thread, but beta-reading would be appreciated :wink: but as that this is for publication (i.e. I can't legally put it in public domain and post it on the forums) it'll have to stay in PMs.

What do you write? Novels, fanfics, RPs, vidjamagame scripts?

Whatever inspiration strikes for. In the past that's been short stories and a couple of fanfics which reached deep into the novella length, but I eventually want to write novels.

What genre do you prefer? Sci-fi, fantasy, horror?

I am VERY eclectic. If forced to choose, I'd pick apocalypse sci-fi because when it's good, it's REALLY good (The Road and Alas Babylon). Too bad it can also be REALLY BAD, to (Water World). But I read and write just about everything.

What are some of your favorite stories?

Memento. I seem to be one of the few who got this movie first time through. The Road is great, as is The Lord of the Rings and World War Z is an occasional guilty pleasure.

Any writing pet peeves? What type of stuff annoys you when you're reading?

Wasted words and excessively long paragraphs. I tend to read just the first and last sentences of large paragraphs because, to be honest, there's usually little need for the words in between to get the story.

And what do you prefer instead?

Subtlety. Pulling off subtlety correctly is incredibly hard, but having a story which grows on you in symbolism and metaphor each time you read it is one of the most beautiful feelings in the world.

Tips and tricks of the trade?

Proper Pre-writing Prevents Poor Presentation. Getting fiction out of your head is a lot like making wine; you can get grape juice immediately, but if you want to make a fine wine you have to be selective about your grapes and mull over things for a bit. I mulled over my last short story for three months....although I guess that mulling WAS a bit filled with fantasies of a hot teacher in leather.

[Selena]

As I've developed the terrible life goal of someday getting published the old-fashioned way, I've done my share of info hunting when it comes to breaking into the existing industry. Some of it (most of it) fairly depressing, but not always. About an equal amount has been useful or at least something to ponder when starting a new project. So many of my answers have been shaped by what I've learned.




What do you write? Novels, fanfics, RPs, vidjamagame scripts?

I write short stories, novels, actively participate in RPs around here, and once dabbled in fanfics. I have three short stories essentially done. I have one novel ready to be started at any time, and another novel idea in the brainstorm stage. My fanfic days are over and thankfully long gone, but they were important in terms of getting some practice. Not anything I'd want to bring back up. They were mostly set long before or way after their basis - ways to shape the world by inventing backstory or adding deeper layers of story.

What genre do you prefer? Sci-fi, fantasy, horror?

Sci-fi. Less the technobabble lasers and robots everywhere kind, and more the future of society kind. I have a very small soft spot for historical fiction, but only for the barely-known eras of the world.


What are some of your favorite stories?

Ender's Game is probably my favorite contemporary novel. Mythology has always been a favorite of mine - specifically Sumerian and Norse. It's where this whole 'writing' business got started, after all. You know, apart from mundane record keeping.



Any writing pet peeves? What type of stuff annoys you when you're reading?

I have quite a few of them - I'm a picky reader.

1. Serious Business Writing. Writing without humor. There are holocaust survivors who made light of their situation while they were stuck in death camps, so there's no reason for handsome brooding heroes to brood that damn much all the time. Because it's usually over nothing major. Batman only gets away with it because his villains are so amusing. It's also not more artistic to have a humorless piece of work. To laugh is to be human. We laugh when we're nervous. We crack jokes to ease the tension. A world (in fantasy or reality) without laughter is not one I want to stay in. A character - especially a main character - that is extremely stoic doesn't have much of a character at all. Not one that I want to pay attention to, anyway.

1B. Your funnies have to actually be funny, though. Humor can sometimes be harder than straight drama.

2. Info-dumping. If it starts sounding like a textbook entry, then I'm going to be put off. Which has nothing to do with ADD. It eats up time and there are better ways to incorporate backstory than to vomit it all up in a huge section of text that disrupts the flow of things. Also annoying if characters have to explain things that everyone should already know in their world. "Hey, remember when that guy enslaved the whole country a few years ago?" "Yeah, wild times, man."

3. Preaching. Authors who very bluntly insert their own moral values or ideologies into characters. A reaction of "Well, that tangent was unexpected and out of place," usually signals that a preacher moment has happened. Worse if it happens in the narration itself. I like storytellers, not preachers. It should not read like an Aesop fable. Focus on the story aspect, not getting a message across. There are many messages to be taken away from just one action - let me choose which one it is. Preaching appeals to only one group of readers - the ones that share the author's opinion - and turns off everyone else. Which is going to be the majority of people when it comes to most controversial issues.

4. Agreed about the plucky farmboy saving the world. Along with any innocent bystander getting caught up in the action. And heroes who set off into the world after their villages are horribly burned down by wandering bandits/generic badguys at the start of the story. Or after their parents are unexpectedly murdered by the same type of generic badguys. Basically, I like my heroes to be motivated from the start. Not people who go "oh, my barn burned down, time to go fight evil and get revenge on the dark overlord." Especially if they have many layers of motives. Generally just don't like the innocent boyscout heroes.

5. Characters without realistic weaknesses / characters who have over the top skills. It's not interesting to read about invincible people. It's the weaknesses, and learning to work around them, that make for an interesting person. Not the strengths. Even big tuff guys have some degree of vulnerability.


And what do you prefer instead? / Tips and tricks of the trade?

My favorite stories always have a great blend of angst/humor/suspense. Getting this balance right can be extremely tricky, but once you have it down, it's gold. I think the best compliment I ever got was that I made someone cry and laugh at the same time. Which is not to say I've mastered this balance out at all. You've got to work on it.

Info-dumping was something I used to do because I thought it was inevitable. It's what you as an author want to do. I mean, why else did you create all these damn notes? It takes great willpower to resist the urge to info-dump, and it requires more skill to flesh out a world without it. You have to think of it from a reader's perspective. The reader is essentially like someone who's been beamed directly into the story - that's why "kid is literally sucked into a fantasy land" tales are so popular. The readers learns about the world from actions and spoken words. They're being taken along on the ride. Info-dumping disrupts the natural flow of things. A lot of people skip over big blocks of informative text into order to get back to the dialogue and action. That's where they feel most connected.

Multi-layered characters. A literary agent talked about this once (Nathan Bransford if you're interested in Googling him - he has a nice blog, but I haven't checked it in a while). Characters with conflicting interests and ulterior motives. He used this example (quoted from his blog):

Here's a way of illustrating that, Super Mario Bros. style.

Good: plumber wants to save the princess.
Better: plumber wants to save the princess while besting green-clad brother with similar goal
Best: plumber wants to save the princess while besting green-clad brother with similar goal, but although he is brave he is plagued by the creeping sense that the gamer controlling his every move might want him dead

And.... yeah. It's late, and I've lost my train of thought! But that's a good starting point.


Also, feel free to post up short stories and/or offer critiques to any that are put up! I might show off one soon, but we'll see.

[Doctor Pogo]

What do you write? Novels, fanfics, RPs, vidjamagame scripts?

I write poetry. I've got a few not very good short stories stashed away, but these days, when I write to write, it's usually a poem. I've been published in a few obscure journals and no-name regional magazines. Most I've ever gotten paid is $75 for one publication of one piece. Usually it's more like $25. But it sure is fun to write.

What genre do you prefer? Sci-fi, fantasy, horror?

I'm an Imagist. It's weird to label yourself, but I've read my work and that's what I am. And I like to play with sounds and mouthfeel. I like poems that are fun to say out loud.

My short stories always were of the Ray Bradbury school; there may be science fiction elements or magic, but the story is about humans.


What are some of your favorite stories?

Hm. I grew up with Sherlock Holmes and Huckleberry Finn. I love the stories in the Pogo comic strip by Walt Kelly, and Bone by Jeff Smith. The Flashman Papers novels by George MacDonald Fraser gets my vote for the best historical fiction ever written. I have a soft spot for historical fiction. My favorite writer is Shirley Jackson - seek her out, the woman never published a bad sentence, seriously. My favorite work of hers is the novel We Have Always Lived In The Castle.

It's easier to list favorite poets than favorite poems. I love Wallace Stevens and William Carlos Williams; I like Frost's craft better than his pieces, but they're still great; I love Richard Brautigan's poems and Kobayashi Issa's haiku; Theodore Roethke and e.e. cummings always make me smile.



Any writing pet peeves? What type of stuff annoys you when you're reading?

My writing pet peeves are best explained by reading The Elements of Style, Strunk and White, et al. It is the only book you need. Master its teachings and you will write beautiful, easy prose and sharp, concise prosody.

Specific peeves:

1. The Hero Myth. This is that plucky farmboy stuff previously mentioned by several of you. Joseph Campbell was great for a while, but it's time to put the Hero Myth to bed. The idea that there's this guy who is born with greatness in him and destiny will pick him out and he will rise to great power and heroism on the shoulders of his long-suffering friends (who were not born with as much greatness in them) is not only a gross misreading of the human condition, it's detrimental to our culture to have that ingrained in every story we tell.

2. Word Vomit. I'm looking at you, Stephen King. Do they pay you by the syllable now, or what?

3. Pseudo. Don't be lazy or generic. I hate stock characters and stock phrases and stock accents. If you want your character to speak in Middle English for some reason, fucking learn Middle English. I don't go for that pseudo-archaic pseudo-Elizabethan pseudo-intelligent mushspeak. Use the language of the here and now, and the words of the characters, wherever the here and now may be and whoever the characters may be. A character is more than a speech impediment or an accent or an Italian.


And what do you prefer instead? / Tips and tricks of the trade?

The aforementioned style manual. Read more than you write. Write something, anything, every day. Work in forms, work against forms. Play. Submit things. Show, don't tell. Practice your craft. Learn about what you're doing. Research. Take your most commonly used style and genre of work, and don't write anything in that style or genre for a year.

Play.

[Selena]

Posting time! I know Egann's got a thread for his, but I think I'll just put my story here in a spoiler tag for those interested.




This is called "The Healing Power of Delinquency." It's mostly something I did for shits and giggles.


It's not edited up, so expect the occasional small error. The copy/pasting from my document has ruined some of the formatting, but should still be readable.

Spoiler

The Healing Power of Delinquency

The advertisements made it seem so dramatic. Asura had been a naive young woman seeking adventure, and scenes of giant exploration vessels soaring away from the homeworld with engines ablaze had baited her into joining the Armada. With two voyages under her belt, Asura had come to the conclusion that life as an interstellar explorer was one part awesome and nine hundred parts mind-numbing boredom. It may have been exhilirating to set foot on a wild planet, but the crew had to spend an astronomical amount of time in transit to see anything interesting. With nothing to occupy her mind during those long voyages, Asura was learning about the finer aspects of space madness.
As a surgeon attached to the Medical Department, she was one of the first to succumb to the plague of insanity. Medical depended on the poor luck and stupidity of others to stay busy, but the crew hadn't had any accidents and the nearest headcold was always a billion kilometers away. The lack of stimulation ate away at her brain. Asura and the rest of the Med staff couldn't remember when 'war' was declared, but they had formed a bitter rivalry with the Science Department at some point during the last tour.
One morning, a young nurse came into Med's break room crying her eyes out. Asura, who had been reading news reports on her electronic assistant, hopped up from the table and went to the other woman. Asura wrapped her in a hug, and the nurse clung to her with such ferocity that Asura felt physical discomfort. A few other staff members gathered around for support.
"Tell me what happened," Asura said.
It came out in a choked sob. "Science!"
Those knaves. "What have they done now?"
It took the young nurse a moment. "Liquid nitrogen, and..."
"Shh, it's all right. What did they do with the liquid nitrogen?"
"They took the clothes from my room, dipped them in the nitrogen, and then smashed them to pieces all over the floor. Asura, this is all I've got left!" The nurse motioned to the uniform she had on. "What am I supposed to do? You can't shop in space!"
"That goes too far," said another doctor. "Asura, we need to strike back before they can do this to someone else. They've had the upper hand throughout this whole trip."
"Oh, don't worry. They'll pay. The attack goes against the laws of engagement." Asura looked down at the nurse. "This wasn't fair to you, and I apologize. It's your first tour. They should know better than to go after you. You're not yet mad enough to be a valid target."
The department's only anesthesiologist stared at the far wall with a wild look in his eyes. "Start hiding the practice cadavers in their quarters."
Keeping one arm wrapped around the distraught nurse, Asura pointed at him and glared. "I have repeatedly told you that we can't play the dead body card this early into the voyage! That's our finisher!"
"Sorry."
Asura brightened. "Although, since you seem so eager to cause havoc, I think I can put you to use." She patted the nurse on the arm and released her. "As for you, head down to Crew Services and request additional clothes. They always have some spares available. We'll take care of the mean, nasty scientists."
The nurse wiped her eyes. "All right."
Asura turned around to face the group in the break room, waving her arm as if she were giving a grand political speech. Like children at play, those who had lost their minds to space boredom were quick to descend into melodramatic roleplaying in order to bring a sense of adventure to their lives. "Citizens of Medical, the time has come to launch our counterattack. The shattering of undergarments will not be tolerated. Prepare to begin Operation Feelgood!"

* * *

A xenobiologist by the name of Tirana was seated in the ship's small library. Though her slim frame was physically unimposing, everyone knew that she was the evil overlord of Science. She would have been the one to order the liquid nitrogen assault, and she was the one who was going to pay. Asura marched into the library with her nose upturned, the sound of her boots against the deck drawing all sorts of attention from curious onlookers, and stopped at her rival's desk.
"I was wondering when you would show your ugly face," Tirana said, not looking up from her work.
"Step outside."
Tirana smiled and folded her hands over her papers, looking at Asura out of the corner of one eye. "Is this a duel or a meeting between generals?"
Asura tilted her head toward the exit. "Just come with me."
"If this is your declaration of surrender, then I won't know whether to be joyous or disappointed."
The two women retreated to the barren corridor and, keeping a few feet apart, stared each other down. They had met to discuss the rivalry on a few occasions, thinking that the unofficial stations they held were just as important and serious as any other position of government authority. Shows of force had to be made, and, with that mentality, the two had a knack for prolonging the conflict. It was entirely possible that their mutual stubbornness was the solitary fuel behind it.
"You do not destroy someone's personal belongings in space," Asura said. "That's too much."
"Crew Services always has extra rags. Your nurse will be fine," Triana replied in a crisp tone.
"She's also not crazy yet. There was always an unsaid agreement to avoid the sane until they'd fallen on their own."
"Your new underlings need to learn that this is a dangerous place. If you don't want your rookies to get caught up in the situation, then perhaps you should admit defeat."
Asura's eyes flared with emotion. "Never."
Tirana clicked her tongue. "Very well. I still don't understand why you chose to come after us in the first place, but if you insist on inflicting pain upon yourselves, then that's your business."
"You started it, not us," Asura said. "You started stealing our equipment!"
"You weren't using it. Science needed it. Why waste?"
"You did not need it! You stole it to pick a fight!"
"Don't think I didn't see you people looking across the corridor with envious eyes. Sci had so many experiments to conduct. You had nothing. We borrowed your equipment, and you used that as an excuse to overreact and start this whole mess."
Asura waved her hand. "I'm not getting into this conversation again. You will no longer go after the new people unless you want to unleash the full wrath of Med."
"Your threats are adorable, but let us remember which department has more legitimate firepower. If you're smart, you'll run back home and cower within your department. I won't get my hopes up," Tirana said. She turned on her heel and walked back to the library.
Asura's hands tightned into fists and she yelled out something that was most certainly not library-friendly. All for show. While Tirana had been occupided with the meeting, Asura's off-kilter anesthesiologist, who had been hiding behind a bookshelf, snuck over to Tirana's cup of tea and dropped in a cocktail of potent drugs. Served her right for selecting an isolated work station. It wasn't anything harmful, of course, because murder would draw far too much attention to their quiet war. It was just enough to knock her out. Asura watched from the hall as Tirana sat down, took a long drink of the spiked tea, and resumed her work.
After a few minutes, Tirana began to unconsciously rock back and forth in her chair. Another library patron, who was walking by the scene on a quest to find additional materials, noticed her behavior and stopped to check on her.
"Miss, are you feeling okay?"
Tirana sat back in her chair, roughly, and stared at him. "I don't know."
"What do you mean?"
"I mean, I don't feel bad. I don't really feel much of anything. That's weird, right? Look-it." Tirana jabbed her left arm. "Nothing. I'm invincible."
The man widened his eyes. "You're numb? And it came on all of a sudden?"
"It's kind of like bein' drunk, but the room isn't spi-- oh, there we go. Now's like bein' drunk."
The innocent bystander looked to the main desk. "I think you'd better get some help. Can you walk?"
"Of course I can walk! I've been a champion walker since the age of two!" Tirana slid her chair back and hoisted herself up. Upon taking her first step, her numbed legs gave way, and she slammed right into the floor. Face still on the deck, Tirana began to flail. "Oh, someone turned up the artificial gravity here. Look out!"
The other occupants of the library stared on in wonder, and the officer in charge of the area made his way over to the area. "What's going on here?"
"She's not feeling well, sir," said the well-meaning man.
"Take her to Med."
Tirana flailed some more. "I don't need to go to Med! Med is full of evil people! With the needles!"
The officer raised an eyebrow. "Inane babbling is not helping your case."
"You just watch! If you don't let us stop them, they'll take over the whole ship and then everyone will see the spinning. There will be plagues and unwanted colonoscopies and she'll steal all my guns--"
It was then that Tirana passed out.
The officer pointed to the bystander who'd inquired about her health. "Help me carry this nutcase to Med."
"Yes, sir!"
In the corridor, Asura's face broke into a wicked grin.

* * *
"Good morning. You had quite the spill. How are you feeling?"
Asura watched with a smug grin as the overlord of Science woke up on one of Medical's cots. She was confused at first, but it didn't take long for her to put the pieces together and snap into an alert sitting position. Her eyes were wide with fear.
"What have you done to me, you miserable little lab rat?"
Asura, flanked on either side by her loyal nurses, widened her smile. "Nothing you can't recover from. The important thing is that you've been reminded that Med has its own sort of fangs. When we ignore that oath to do no harm, look out! You've got a whole crew of morbid, hyper-intelligent lunatics lurking in every dark corner of the ship."
Tirana's eyes narrowed as she fixed a death glare onto Asura. "I might use live subjects when we test our next weapon system."
"You look gorgeous today, by the way."
Tirana was a still for a moment. "Excuse me?"
Asura grabbed a mirror from one of the nurses and held it up, revealing the makeover they had given Sci's leader. Tirana was covered in vulgar sayings that had been scribbled onto her skin with black ink, and both of her hands were dyed bright blue. The ink would come off with a decent amount of soap, but the blue dye would last for a week no matter what Tirana tried. Tirana's face contorted into a snarl.
"I was prepared to offer you peace before this, but now it's too late. Sleep with one eye open!"
Tirana jumped up from the cot and stormed out of Med as the nurses laughed at her expense. Only Asura remained silent, because although she was proud of her victory, she knew that a furious Science Department wouldn't take long to strike back. She'd have to stay one step ahead of them. Rearrange the schedules so that a capable officer would be awake and alert at any given hour. Post nurses as guards. Try to steal some body armor from the few genuine soldiers on board. Her heart sang just a bit. The war was back on, and her boredom would be vanquished.

* * *

Asura woke up one night to the sensation of something against her leg. She used her opposing foot to try and scatch at the area, as throwing back the covers required too much energy in the middle of her 'night.' Instead of skin, her foot came into contact with something round and very hard. As she didn't think a tumor could have exploded from her calf in a matter of a few hours, she sat up and begrudingly flipped her blankets to one side of the bed. The image that she saw next caused her to scream with every fiber of her horrified being.
Insects. Alien insects. Well over a dozen of them. They were shaped like large, scaly buttons and had six legs on either side of their body. They could unleash a massive burst of speed if they felt that their lives were in danger, and they began to feel threatened when the giant ape creature sharing the bed with them started to scream and kick. Insects swarmed in every direction. One went from her foot all the way to her shoulder within two seconds, causing Asura to wildly punch herself in an attempt to fling the creature off.
She fell out of bed, began to crawl toward her door, and finally exited her personal quarters as fast as her legs would carry her. She ran down the Med residental corridor for a good twenty feet before coming to a stop, slapping the rest of the insects off of her body. Her mind caught up with the situation. Her fear turned to fury. Her guards had been sleeping on the job!
"Wake up! Get out here!"
Asura pounded on one door after another, waking any doctors who might have been enjoying peaceful slumber. They began to exit their rooms, but she was already heading into the proper section of the Med Department. Nurses and assistants stared at her as she stomped into the lounge.
"Everyone! Here!"
The staff members of Med crowded around her in the lounge, but were wise to give the furious surgeon a few feet of room. People were still rubbing the sleep out of their eyes when a young woman noticed something. She pointed to Asura's head.
"Oh! There's something moving!"
Asura's eyes widened and she brought a hand to her head, fingers searching through her dark locks until she came in contact with a foul insect trying to nest in her hair. With a hiss, she flung it to the floor and, with no regard for what trouble Sci might get into for losing a specimen, she slammed her foot down on it.
"We're under attack," Asura said. "Why wasn't anyone watching the rooms? Someone slipped through our defenses. More patrols from now on! Everyone go check your quarters and make sure there are no traps waiting for you!"
The ship's dentist raised his hand. "What are we going to do in retaliation?"
"'We' are not going to do anything," Asura said, wringing her hands together. "I am going to do something. Planting foreign creatures in someone's room is the work of a xenobiologist. It was a personal attack, and I will respond to her challenge. It will be beautifully painful."
"Asura, that look in your eyes is a little frightening."
She gave them a shaky, unstable smile. "Don't worry. It's a good, productive rage."

* * *
It was common knowledge that Tirana was dating a very attractive member of the emergency response team. Significant others, provided that they worked outside of Med and Sci, were never involved in the crossfire. The rivalry was a private thing. No one wanted the highest ranking crew members to intervene and put a premature stop to the war. With the targeting of her rookie nurse, however, Asura felt justified in going after Tirana's boyfriend. She was doing him a favor, anyway. No one deserved to be stuck with a crackpot like Tirana.
Asura had one her underlings make note of when the emergency team took their regular meals. Two days later, by random unmanufactured coincidence, Asura decided to eat lunch at the same time they did. The plan might fail if Tirana had successfully warned him about her, but he was tall and strong. Asura hoped that he would be too confident to heed her crazy warnings. What harm could a petite surgeon do?
When the emergency team began to return to their department, she grabbed him by the elbow.
"I'm sorry to bother you, but could I have a moment of your time?"
He stared back with a fair amount of suspicion. She'd gotten to him. Damn. "What is it?"
Not missing a beat, Asura said, "I wanted to ask you about Tirana. Is she feeling well?"
"Why? Are you afraid the drugs you gave her left some permanent damage behind?"
"No, no, this has nothing to do with our little pranks," Asura replied. "She didn't come in for her yearly physical. I suppose it's my fault. I made the mistake of pulling a stunt so close to the date. She really does need to visit. I need to make sure that her condition doesn't act up again."
He raised an eyebrow. "What condition?"
Asura feigned a look of shock. "You mean she hasn't informed you? For your sake, I hope that you two haven't been intimate."
His eyes widened. "Why?"
"Oh, no, you have. I can see it from your expression. I may have to examine you to make sure the infection hasn't spread."
"What infection?"
"Last year she caught a minor disease from a former boyfriend, but it's been difficult to get rid of. She needs to see me on a semi-frequent basis for treatment." Asura spotted a specific crew member out of the corner of her eye. He was also in the area by complete coincidence that had nothing to do with her plotting. He was a burly technician from the bowels of the Engineering Department. Asura pointed him out. "She caught it from him, actually. His infection was much easier to clear up. Transmitted diseases can be strange like that."
A spark went off in his eyes, and he shoved Asura to one side. "Excuse me."
He marched up to the other man and, before anyone realized what was happening, punched him right in the face. Asura stood back in awe as the two began to yell and scuffle, but it didn't take long before she broke into a wide grin. They were in a fight. Blood would be spilled. Someone might need stitches. Stitches involved Med getting to do some work. Double victory!
Other staff members from Med and a few military policemen rushed in after several minutes of fighting, summoned by a cook behind the counter. The medics stared at Asura in confusion while the men were broken up, and she waved her arms to the fight scene.
"Don't just stand there! Get them back to Med and patch them up!"
There was a happy glow in their eyes as the whole group was escorted back to Medical for supervised treatment - the first legitimate work they'd done on the whole voyage. Asura was pleased at her discovery. If the staff needed something to do, she could just go around causing fights!

* * *

An hour later, after the men had left, Asura's own fighting skills would be put to the test. There were no henchmen this time. There were no surprise pranks to shock her into a state of rage. Tirana came alone, and she came without pretense. She ran through the open doorway of Med and pointed straight at Asura.
"I'm going to kill you!"
Asura did not have time to react before the other woman pounced. She was shoved back several feet but was able to steady herself before toppling over. Instinct took hold and, rather than worm her way out of the situation using her intelligence, Asura shoved Tirana back with an equal amount of force. When Tirana came forward again, Asura lowered herself down and tried to ram her shoulder into the other woman's stomach. She struck her mark, but Tirana endured it, taking the opportunity to sling her arm around Asura's neck. Caught in the choke hold, Asura began to flail about like a fish out of water.
"You told him I had a disease?!"
"It might not be a lie!"
The hold tightened and Asura made an awkward coughing sound. Unwilling to put up with her imprisonment any longer, Asura kicked Tirana's shin as hard as she could. Tirana loosened her grip for just a second, but that was enough for Asura to break free. The two gave each other several feet of room, waiting for the right opportunity to strike. They both moved at the same time and ran into each other like two old knights in a jousting match. It wasn't long before they were once again trying to squeeze the air out of their opponent's lungs.
After some time, Asura was able to perform a textbook hip throw, sending Tirana straight into the floor. With victory in sight, Asura prepared to drop her foot down onto the scientist's stomach and en--
"This is the bridge," came a voice from the PA system. "We will arrive at our first destination in five hours. The captain would like to urge the members of our designated away team to make their final preparations before going planet-side. That is all."
Away team. Asura was a member of the away team. She'd read that message in between Science raids. The away team always needed someone from Med to go with them. Away, away! Oh, beautiful day, it was finally time to leave the ship! How strange. It didn't seem like the trip had been that long. She'd been busy putting up with Tirana's infernal attacks. She looked down at her rival, who had a content smile on her face.
"Finally," Tirana breathed.
"No kidding."
Tirana's gaze then shifted to Asura's boot, which still hovered dangerously close to her stomach. In a last act of defiance, Tirana shoved Asura's leg, throwing her off balance. Asura fell onto her hindquarters and let out a string of swear words as her rival retreated back to Sci.
"You can't let her get away with that," said a nurse.
"I'll deal with her later," Asura replied. She stood back up, and, not minding her manners, she rubbed the impact location. She couldn't help but laugh. A weight lifted from her shoulders. "I've got a planet to see."
In that moment, the madness faded, and the woman Asura used to be fought her way back to the surface. She pulled her hair back and her nerves hardened to steel. Thoughts of revenge faded and were replaced by protocol and mission objectives. She reviewed all pertinent data using her electronic assistant and began to check her exploration suit for any damage from the last mission. Her medical gear was examined and neatly - compulsively - arranged in her metal case. She was calm and focused. Everything had to be perfect. There was no time for games.
When the ship entered stable orbit above the wild planet, the away team was summoned to the hangar. The first away team was always small. Tirana, a few other scientists, Asura, and a soldier for safety purposes. Dressed in their gear, they walked in a tight line to their shuttle. Once aboard, they locked themselves into their regular seats and waited for the launch.
Tirana turned her head to Asura. "You weren't very impressive at the start of this round."
"I caught back up," Asura replied. "What about you? You could have drawn unwanted attention by fighting me like that."
"Worth the risk."
"I think I'll call this round a draw," Asura said.
"It's funny how you've never 'lost' a round. It's always a draw," Tirana replied.
"That's because it's true."
"I had your whole department under siege the time before last," Tirana said. "You were too scared to leave. That's more than a draw."
"No, we just felt like staying in. It was merely a coincidence that our decision to keep to ourselves also involved you waiting outside with those non-lethal sonic rifle... things."
"Just a coincidence."
"That's right," Asura said. A pause. "You don't still have those, do you?"
"None of your business," Tirana replied.
Asura nodded. "You know, I'd really go crazy if we didn't do stuff like this."
"It's good for keeping the mind focused."
"I wish you the best of luck in the next round."
"You too."
Asura managed a glare before the shuttle engines kicked on. "No insects next time."

Comments welcome!



This is my feeble effort to actually start sharing what I write.

[SteveT]

Overall, entertaining and amusing. I have a few nitpicks. Comments in spoilers.

Spoiler

1. The narration was often detached and clinical. I think that worked very well for most of the story. It gave the story a Lewis Carol kind of feel. There were a few points where it didn't work, namely the action sequences. Also, the characters spoke in the same voice as the narrator, so the dialog didn't always stand out.

2. The humor was well executed. Comic timing is very difficult in writing, but I think you pulled it off.

And something about this forum skin makes reading large blocks of text annoying to me. I had to copy it into Word.

Well done, though. I enjoyed it.

[Egann]

Ditto SteveT. I liked it a lot and if I weren't almost ADD I would've finished it in one sitting easily. I'll also copy his spoiler-style comments.

WARNING: what follows is, quite possibly, full-blown diarrhea of the mouth.

Spoiler

The Good:

This story's idea is clearly well thought out; well enough that it only needs the most vague strokes of milieu and doesn't need to rely any on the other aspects of story-telling (like character and event) to be a good story. (It would kind of be surprising to NOT be that way; sci-fi is an idea and milieu genre by definition, so character or event stories are much rarer in sci-fi than they are in, say, mystery, where event is the defining aspect.)

As is, my humble opinion is this is definitely publishable, but a lot depends on what audience you specifically intend it for (more on that in a moment.)

The Bad:

1. With the heavy idea aspect concentration, the narration is fine as is, but Asura's narrative presence is totally forgettable. What would be ideal is to have the very beginning show a bored Asura (reflected in her vocabulary and syntax both running on idle), then the "war" shows an excited Asura (potentially almost ADD; how specifically you make her act when she's excited is up to you) and finally, after the captain's announcement, a professional Asura; crisp and very formal. As is the three roles blur together, which is acceptable, but it doesn't lead the reader to ask whether or not the boredom really has driven her schizophrenic the way it could.

Ahem. That IS beyond my abilities, BTW, but if you think you can do it, there you have it.

2. The "frozen panties" problem comes off...a bit too seriously. Having ALL of a nurse's clothes destroyed and not being able to replace them doesn't come across as trivial enough to really play up the comic exaggeration. Making it clear that the supplies officer has plenty (for a long voyage) is one way you could handle this, as is reducing the scope to, say, freezing the outfit she was wearing and making her go back to her room in small-clothes (play up the middle-school likeness with the teasing crush.)

3. As that the whole thing is written in 3PL from Asura's point of view, we spend a lot of time in her head. Here's what that time is like as per an online readability test.

Number of characters (without spaces) : 17,988.00 Number of words : 4,117.00 Number of sentences : 384.00 Average number of characters per word : 4.37 Average number of syllables per word : 1.48 Average number of words per sentence: 10.72

Indication of the number of years of formal education that a person requires in order to easily understand the text on the first reading Gunning Fog index : 8.21

Approximate representation of the U.S. grade level needed to comprehend the text : Coleman Liau index : 7.14 Flesh Kincaid Grade level : 6.08
ARI (Automated Readability Index) : 4.51
SMOG : 9.28


Flesch Reading Ease : 70.58

Notably, the Fog index is only 8.2. That's fine if your audience IS middle schoolers, but Asura herself is educated 12 years more. Just for the comparison, I also polled one of your RP posts (which was a 7.8) and a post in contro of yours (9.7). Bear in mind that Asura's education means that the real person would think and speak closer to the contro post than anything else (unless you are going for ADD.) She doesn't sound like Asura she sounds...well, like you.

Her sentences are also quite short at only 10 words per. Other than that, none of the statistics really jump out at me. They just say "middle to early high school audience." Do you need to take the statistics as the Bible? No. Like I said, I found it enjoyable and just fine as is, and that's the important part. These are just factors you should be aware of when deciding on audiences.


The Ugly:

MY GOD did the forum ruin the formatting. Henceforth I propose that we attach .rtf or .doc files because the train-wreck of the first two paragraphs mangled together. It is VERY hard to read text on a forum without double-returns.


Overall:

A very good story, but unless your target audience is a middle-schooler, you don't use the full potential of the idea you can express.

[SteveT]

I'm going to link to 5 threads down, just in case someone cares this time:

http://forums.legend...etective-story/

[Egann]

Well, I'll go ahead and post comments here. If you WANTED them in your own thread, feel free to yell at me.

EDIT: I've now included that additional stuff....

Spoiler

Well, you started out strongly enough, but kind of lapsed towards the end. At the beginning, not only did I find the humor quite funny, but I immediately noticed the narrator's very strong cynical presence. (Both were pulled off quite well, too.) However, once the showdown with Schemington began that flare disappeared and that cynical air was replaced by an unreliable narrator. The action completely pushes his personality aside except for a few brief glimpses, and those glimpses seem to be of much weaker stock than the beginning.

The big problem, however, was that we were never sold on a reason WHY they were feuding or why it was important. Why was a detective playing along with Schemington in the first place? Now, in Lena's story, we got an impression of the big scale picture of what was going on through a little exposition, but here there is no big picture impressed upon us at all.

I intend to amend this post later (probably later than I'd hope) because real life calls, but basically, GREAT page 1, but page 2 burns up it's inertia and the conclusion makes no sense. OK, it DOES make sense, but it doesn't give me an impression of meaning the way the narrator obviously thinks it has.


EDIT: Now that life no longer barks at my heels and I've had some time to think, I can put my finger on the problem. I presume you're familiar with MICE? If not, google "MICE quotient" to get a rundown.

Your story clearly has reference to the story, but basically it is a character story, with an event thrown in. The event is so weak (OK, perhaps it isn't "weak" so much as poorly communicated) that the story relies on the strong character to pull it off. In a sense this is good; you are relying on your strengths to cover your ankles, so to speak. What's bad is that the poorly communicated event plays a necessary part of the story and the character dumps his energy into hiding how weak it is, leaving no energy left to develop himself positively. This is also WHY the first page is so much better; the event hasn't started and he's not making up for a lack.

What you could do is refine the event, but personally I would shift tact and add in idea. Why are the two characters feuding and why does the narrator play along? What's the significance of any of this? If those questions at least project the air of having a definite answer (even if it's left unspoken) the event will be strengthened enough that the character can use his energy constructively again and keep the humor alive through the end.

Speaking of endings, I get the impression that the narrator feels something meaningful at the story's end, but I have absolutely no clue what it is. It doesn't feel like an ending, it feels like an abrupt arrest.

Edited by Egann, 05 December 2010 - 07:45 PM.

[SteveT]

Interest points. responses in spoiler:

Spoiler

You're right. This is predominately a character piece. Here's what I was going for with this character:

Mack is a man who has a habit of reluctantly letting himself get drawn into acts of heroism. He's worn out, cynical, and disinterested, but somehow he can't ignore all the weird things that happen in his city, and can't resist trying to stop the worst ones. The reason he doesn't explain anything about the conflict between himself and Schemington is because flat-out doesn't care. Schemington does bad stuff. Mack instinctively goes out to stop him. Schemington shares a lot in common with the Riddler in that he broadcasts his every move because he wants to be completely transparent and win anyway. Mack's dealt with him before, so he knows his M.O. and doesn't fall for it. It's not interesting to Mack because dealing with this sort of over-the-top supervillainy is a fairly rote affair for him.

Mack has a base, primal drive to do good, but he's not conscious of it. To him, he's just getting involved in, and putting a stop to, weird crap. He breaks bones and roughs up the henchmen because that's the image he wants to maintain, and that's the person he thinks he is. Hence some of the unreliable narrator aspects. His violent tendencies are his ego, but his heroic traits are his id. The significance of the last line is that he satisfied both.

Anyway, that's what I was trying to do. It apparently didn't come through. I'll have to do some rewriting.

Edited by SteveT, 05 December 2010 - 11:47 PM.

[Egann]

Spoiler

Hmm....Simply re-writing it may not work. Mack's character won't let you address the important questions that the reader will want answered because HE doesn't want them answered, so you've kind of written yourself into a corner. That;s a problem when the character is the strongest part of the story. Possibly you could force Mack to face the questions (and their answers) via Schemington like the Joker did Batman in The Dark Knight. Alternatively, you could put a few suggestive sentences in key places about his motivation and leave it unsaid (explicitly, anyway.) Either way, make sure that Schemington has a motivation (even if it's left unsaid and is "just to fuck with Mack.")

The real problem with this particular situation is that I don't see Mack getting pulled in; why should Mack go? Has Schemington kidnapped his girlfriend or something? So long as it's ONLY the two of them involved, it seems less like an unwilling hero and more like a sibling rivalry. THAT needs some work because it's the selling point of the character's motivation.

You'll also have to kind of feel your own way with humor; it's not exactly my strong point. My gut says that, for your word-count, Mack is too serious a character to reliably pull off humor; as soon as something interesting happens, you'll have to choose between his cynicism being comical and it being insightful of the character. Right now, it feels like the jokes after page one are "cut" into the character, and are encores for the Jacob's ladder at the beginning (nowhere near as humorous.)

One thing that I thought of is for you to play down the character's serious side to maintain the humor until the very end, when you make him the empathic, exhausted hero. Basically, make 90% laughs, and then with the last 10% twist the knife and make the reader suddenly feel like they're the Joker for laughing at a very serious matter.

[SteveT]

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

I made some changes (highlighted) and uploaded a new version. Let me know if that helps. I didn't touch the jokes. That's trickier, and I'm not sure I entirely agree with you. It'll take some thought.

Uploaded to the original thead. I think we should move the conversation there.

Edited by SteveT, 06 December 2010 - 07:28 PM.

[Selena]

Online readability test? I dunno, I don't much trust something like that. Estimating the worth/audience of a story based on mere number crunching doesn't seem like the way to go. Naturally, Contro posts are going to be much higher because of the nature of those discussions. Just because I'm well educated doesn't mean I always throw around five dollar words. Standard conversations aren't very impressive - the difference between a young teenager and an adult is that the adult uses more swear words. Sometimes. Perhaps fewer inclusions of "like." Talking about work is another matter, as is discussing politics or anything else that actually requires you to bust out the fancytalk.

But it's humor, and humor is lighter, quicker, and less involved than standard drama. Written humor is all about wit - either in the dialogue or exposition - and general silliness. That doesn't mean it's geared toward a middle school audience, just that it can be read by someone who's in middle school if they wanted to pick it up. There are probably a great many adult novels that fall into that category as well, especially in the humor category.

That's not me being overly defensive of the story, since the two of you are right in that there are sections where there's work to be done, just that it seems nonsensical to number crunch like that.




Although perhaps that'd be a bit fitting anyway, since the story is about otherwise intelligent people essentially reverting to juvenile mentalities in the face of nothing to do. ...It happens to me at work. I become fascinated by bubble wrap and throwing super balls at the wall in a confined space. I think most everyone can identify with that.

[SteveT]

I agree. Don't judge a book by it's Gunning Fog index.

It's useful for making sure it's appropriate for your target audience, but that's about it.

[JRPomazon]

What do you write? Novels, fanfics, RPs, vidjamagame scripts?
I write short shories and I also RolePlay from time to time (as evidently seen in Chronicles) along with poetry from time to time.

What genre do you prefer? Sci-fi, fantasy, horror?
I do enjoy myself a good fantasy story, though for more "academic" purposes I write from a more modern and realistic perspective, mostly slice of life stuff.

What are some of your favorite stories?
I like Mark Cox's poetry, along with Jared Paul and a couple others. As for stories, I enjoyed Dante's Inferno and The Outsiders but I wouldn't call them favorites.

Any writing pet peeves? What type of stuff annoys you when you're reading?
If I see stuff in writing in a story that I feel belongs in a JRPG or something thats overly romantic/dramatic, I tend to just stop right there.

And what do you prefer instead?
Stories that are interesting and don't bore the snot out of me.

Tips and tricks of the trade?
Write about what you like for fun, that way you don't lose your passion for it the way some people do when they write for work.

[Egann]

Online readability test? I dunno, I don't much trust something like that. Estimating the worth/audience of a story based on mere number crunching doesn't seem like the way to go.

Bear in mind that I only mentioned it because I thought of the work as very close to final draft and at that point, you need to be aware of your language and style, even if you decide to over-ride it. Like SteveT said, it's only a way of fine-tuning the work to an audience. Granted, such a huge info dump makes it LOOK like I think it's more important than that because it soaks up so much of my post.

Looking back, I might've been wrong, anyways. You've got quite a few dialogue sections -more than I thought when I ran the test, anyways- and that naturally pulls down the Gunning Fog Index. (Not just is dialogue more informal, but it also needs tagging lines like "he said," etc. when you put it into prose. That was one of the reasons I didn't apply it to SteveT's work; it has enough dialogue I felt the results would've been skewed and not really meaningful.)

[Selena]

Another short story from the vault. This one's a bit longer than the other (~7000 words), mostly due to there being more exposition than dialogue this time around. And, to avoid the formatting troubles of the last one, I'll just upload the actual document this time. Personal information edited out, of course. Y'all don't need to know my phone number.

Summary: A scientist testing out new interrogation technology in Korean War Part II suffers a slight malfunction.





There was a different (well, extended) ending scene, but I chopped it off for dramatic effect. It originally ended somewhat stereotypically and I didn't like it much. Endings can be just as difficult as beginnings for me. Not sure why.

[Egann]

LOL. And the part I always have trouble with is understanding what's going on in the middle. For some reason, once I know that, how to start and finish become obvious, but before then I stare blankly at a vacuous sheet of paper. I suppose it's because I so like my beginning and end to mirror each other.

Oh, and by the way, big thank you for the formatting. Perfect if not for a glitch with the double-spacing.


The good news is that I see potential in this story. A LOT of potential. To give you an idea of how much, the last work you posted had a moderately good idea which you explored about as far as it could (or should) be; about 90% to just throw a figure on it. Here, the story appears worse from a mechanical perspective, but it's actually because we're only seeing about 15-20% of what the idea is capable of. IF you put another 90% exploration out, I could totally see this about 150 years from now sitting in an anthology next to Bradbury's "A Sound of Thunder." I wish I could say that was flattery.

The bad is that it will be VERY difficult to develop it. Of course.

First off, this story has to be a character-driven story; there's no alternative by design. Don't get me wrong; there's character here, but it's inconsistent. It actually reminds me a lot of Michael Chriton's Prey, where he spent the first 104 pages totally devoted to character development, and then proceeds to not use one bit of it or develop any character for the rest of the book...except for one stereotypical geek T-shirt. It feels...jerky. Second, you could take a bit of your own medicine and not tell us everything about the EEG implant. Just the situation, a casual mention to it being a device, and a few subtle hints that they're civilians and not some DOD freak-project and that's enough, at least until the narrator meets the Chinaman. What you do need is an explanation for the narrator's actions.

Personally, I'd take this story back to the pre-writing phase. The narrator has a VERY forgettable personality and that really shows when the narration is as intimate as it is (The last story could get away with a non-intimate first person narration, but this story's content and nature necessitates an intimate narration, regardless of person.) With this draft in hand, pre-write the narrator's relationship with Mark and the car wreck when she was younger. Chances are, you can use one or the other (or both) in flashbacks to explain the character in the events of the present. Imagine scenes between the narrator and Mark. Imagine the car wreck. Actively look for or introduce parallels to the present action in them and make what happened then mirror what is happening now.

I don't know. It's late and I'm having problems thinking cogently, so this is probably coming out like an inane blathering even though I've spent two days thinking this over. I think that the problem is that you instinctively understand and write the idea, milieu, or event story and write those well, but you don't get characterization quite as well, and it shows when an idea (like this one) needs good characterization to pull off. Maybe this is all projection --I resemble this problem very much-- but I think that your serious writing will always feel flat because the characters aren't capable of surprising us; they are not like an ogre, they have no layers.


....When I looked back at all my hand had accomplished. Meaningless. Meaningless. Nothing was intelligible under the sun. If you understand well enough, ask a question or two. If not...I'll try to re-think this into...I don't know. Something cogent.

[SteveT]

This seems like the sort of thing to post here. They are some helpful things to think about when reviewing anything:

* Human significance
* Social significance
* Aesthetic significance
* Entertainment values
* Critics questions:
o What was the Artist trying to do?
o How well has he or she done it?
o Was it worth doing?

Roger Ebert established himself as a prominent reviewer largely due to his strict adherence to answering the three Critic's Questions.

Anyway, I read that story. I am, however, about as far away from the target audience as you can get (about as far as, say, Planet Vulcan), so I'm not going to go into a detailed review. It wouldn't be fair. If I were to do so, my main complaint would be the pacing.


However, I am PMing Selena a track changes version of the doc with some stylistic comments.

[Egann]

Ebert's criteria are a good start, but I don't think they're particularly applicable in between authors. Critics are concerned with "is this worth the time and effort" while as authors we are concerned with "how do we make this worth the time and effort." The two are closely related because answering our question would probably involve answering the critic's, but it also involves a fundamentally different content and focus. I'll put some thought into making a formula based on Ebert's for our purposes, but I think the real lesson I learned from that post is is to not to make post with long, complicated, and intricate thoughts at 11:00 PM after a full shift at work when my brain is already fried.



This question is (loosly) directed at Lena: she listed it as a specific pet peeve, so she might be in a better position to give an answer, but really I'm looking for anyone with an idea.

In the pre-writing for my novel I've been having problems designing the difference between the protagonist's and antagonist's attitudes. For universe-related reasons, the best difference I can think of would center around how they deal with or react to power, and about a week ago I got an idea; the antagonist thinks of power as a means of dominating others, while the protagonist thinks of it as a means to help others. At this point, two warning flags popped up.

1. This is awful close to cliche material.

2. It will be difficult to pull this off without being preachy.

Now, after some thought I'm not terribly concerned about the cliche part, but the more I think about it, the more difficult it becomes to avoid preachyness. Suggestions and/ or general techniques would be helpful on either part.

[SteveT]

I'm so absurdly close to finishing rough draft of Novel #2. I only expect to need about 5,000 more words and it'll be over. You would not believe how much easier it is the second time around.

[Fin]

2. It will be difficult to pull this off without being preachy.

Now, after some thought I'm not terribly concerned about the cliche part, but the more I think about it, the more difficult it becomes to avoid preachyness. Suggestions and/ or general techniques would be helpful on either part.

One piece of advice that leaps immediately to mind is something I saw attributed to Orson Scott Card. He said that whatever your story is about you should avoid using that word directly. So if you're writing a story about racism don't use the word racism, for example. Not sure how applicable that is to your problem, but I guess the broader lesson is to try to explain things subtextually as much as you can. Put your characters is a lot of situations where they have power over people so the readers figure out for themselves the difference between their philosophies. Maybe have a couple of scenes where each character must confront a similar situation to really contrast the two. Bonus points if the narration of the second scene repeats a few words or phrases from the first scene to highlight the fact that the scenes are parallel.

Edited by Finbarr, 14 December 2010 - 11:46 PM.

[Selena]

Well, without knowing anything else about the novel, it's hard to give a clear answer. But I'd say....

the antagonist thinks of power as a means of dominating others, while the protagonist thinks of it as a means to help others

This is commonly done, and if you want to keep it that simplistic and have it work out, then you'll have to do it very well.

Power and the concept of good and evil are more complex than just that, so you have more to work with. You can 'dominate' others for good causes - average people are not too terribly intelligent and can easily steer themselves toward doom if they aren't kept on a good path by a strong leader with power. People traditionally follow strong, powerful rulers. Not kind boy scouts. Churchill. Charlemagne. Alexander. Alfred the Great. The greatest leaders in the history of humanity have made full use of their power - dominating their people for the sake of prosperity. But you run the risk of turning into a corrupt tyrant that is utterly afraid of losing that power once acquired.

Likewise, consistently helping other people will eventually make them grow dependent on such a hero, resulting in the decay of the collective strength of the society. Your good intentions ultimately cause harm. And, as mentioned above, real people do not tend to be as drawn to selfless, helpful figures. Those sort of people get martyred - I'm sure you're familiar with the most popular example. Someone who is only willing to use their power to help when it's immediately necessary will not command the same sort of respect. He will not hold as much authority with people, so his early vocal warnings will be more likely to go unheard.

You'd have to address:

Why the villain focuses solely on domination. Is he just a misanthrope that wants people to die in a fire?
Why the hero wishes to stop at merely helping others.



Again, not knowing anything about the novel makes this hard to answer.

[JRPomazon]

I'm doing an independent study next semester to finish my minor in writing. However, I have no idea what to write for the plot of my story. I normally write realistic fiction for school, although I have been known to write more along the lines of fantasy. What might be interesting to write about? If I get a solid idea for the plot, I think I can work it from there.

[Egann]

Fin, Lena, thanks.

I'm still in the early pre-writing phase (as you've probably guessed). I've got a great opening subplot planned out, but where I should go from there I really don't know yet. One of the few things I HAVE figured out, however, is that the protagonist and antagonist are identical twins who were separated when they were young (shamelessly lifting from Trinity Blood.)

*Sigh* Outlined universe and opening subplot, and then brick wall when it came to starting the first subplot of the main action. That's exactly how my last draft died, you know. This is pattern I do not like.


@ JRP: *shrug* What I did for my last short story was pre-write another fanfiction, then change the names, places and the genre from commercial fantasy to contemporary literary fiction. To say a lot changes when you go from commercial to literary is an understatement. Personally, I think that it worked REALLY well even if the draft still needs quite a bit of redrafting and ironing; it easily made the roundest and deepest characters I've ever written.

Edited by Egann, 15 December 2010 - 10:05 AM.

[SteveT]

If you have trouble following through, maybe you're too focused on the length. You could be trying to force a short story concept into a novel length, and your subconscious is rebelling.

A story should be long enough for the plot, and no longer.

Edited by SteveT, 15 December 2010 - 09:38 PM.

[Egann]

No, I'm not really concerned about length.

It's kind of hard to describe, but it's kind of like as soon as I get an idea for a universe and cast, an opening gambit immediately pops into mind, but then after that it's sort of "....well, where do I go from here?" I hate to admit it, but it's not like I'm stretching an idea so much as there wasn't ever a good idea in the first place.