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#31 Hana-Nezumi

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 10:20 PM

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10. How does a thick forest become a barren, mountainous area with two rivers?

9. How does all of Kakariko Town become a graveyard?

8. This comparison also depends on a grassy, forested area somehow becoming barren and rocky.

7. Not very reliable, but better than the other compared areas.

6. ALttP's river leads to Lake Hylia. LoZ/AoL's river leads to the ocean.

5. Spectacle Rock does match up there.

4. ALttP's Hyrule Castle was on a large mass of land with a moat around it. The area you marked on the LoZ map is just a barren island in the middle of a lake.

3. ALttP has a peninsula there while LoZ has an island.

2. These spots can possibly match up, though the Eastern Palace area was less of a desert and more of a place experiencing a drought.

1. That works, though Zora's Domain is absent in LoZ/AoL.

While I do believe that LoZ and ALttP are supposed to be in the same land (Old Hyrule), the comparisons you made were not very good.

10. Some Dodongos burned down the forest.
9. There was a plague and almost everyone died, so they tore down the town and built a graveyard in its place in memorial of its citizens.
8. Another fire caused by rampant Dodongos *sigh*
7. I don't know, it doesn't seem to match up very well...
6. I don't see an ocean on that map.
5. But how did the rocks get disconnected?
4. The Hylians built a castle on the island.
3. Another canal dug by the Hylians.
2. Climate change.
1. The Zoras migrated because of a toxic algal bloom.

#32 Average Gamer

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 11:23 PM

10. Some Dodongos burned down the forest.


What basis do you have for this? Even if the forest burned down, that doesn't explain the large amount of rocks that would need to pop up to make the comparison work.

9. There was a plague and almost everyone died, so they tore down the town and built a graveyard in its place in memorial of its citizens.


Again, what basis do you have for this? Also, why would they demolish an entire town and build a graveyard in its place rather than keeping the town and adding a graveyard to it?

8. Another fire caused by rampant Dodongos *sigh*


Again, what's your basis for this?

7. I don't know, it doesn't seem to match up very well...


Yeah, the comparison's not very strong.

6. I don't see an ocean on that map.


Destiny cut off part of the map in that image, and the ocean can be seen in the manual's depiction of the map and AoL.

5. But how did the rocks get disconnected?


I think the actual Spectacle Rock is on top of that connected area. Either way, it matches up better than anything else.

4. The Hylians built a castle on the island.


It looks more like land that had a moat dug around it. The waterway in ALttP doesn't match up to the one in LoZ anyway.

3. Another canal dug by the Hylians.


Why would they flood the peninsula though? That was meant to allow people to cross the river, not bring them to a pointless island.

2. Climate change.


That's a possibility, but it shouldn't be relied on heavily.

1. The Zoras migrated because of a toxic algal bloom.


What's your basis for this? That doesn't explain the LoZ map's lack of a passageway to Zora's Domain anyway.

Edited by Average Gamer, 12 September 2010 - 11:40 PM.


#33 Person

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 12:23 AM

Every way to explain away the discrepancies between the maps will invariably involve huge heaps of fanfiction to justify it. I try to build my timelines with a minimum of that. It's the first reason I separated FSA from ALttP in my timeline. Way too many holes that needed filled with fanfiction. It's easier just to say "The manual backstory just happened sometime after TP" than to try and explain how FSA is the "real" version of the ALttP backstory like I used to try and do. With the supposed confirmation that the FSA games aren't supposed to predate OoT anymore, I sort of separate them off because there are no deliberate connections to any other games in the series beyond the numerous ALttP references in FSA which were probably artifacts from early in development when the plot was different.

#34 Hana-Nezumi

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 02:11 AM

My post was a joke. I'm just trying to point out that you're nitpicking at things that don't matter. No two Hyrules are going to look exactly the same. And for a good reason: that would be boring and bad game design. But you can see where things are generally in the same area in relation to each other and just have to accept that the landscape somehow changed over time. How it changed is not important so it's not told to us, and any attempt to explain it WILL be fanfic.

#35 Average Gamer

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 05:44 AM

My post was a joke. I'm just trying to point out that you're nitpicking at things that don't matter.


:victory: That's good to hear. My post up there at first began with a "I can't tell if you're joking or not," line, but I didn't want to offend you so I removed it. The sad thing is that people on forums such as ZU actually take posts like your joke one seriously. I figured that it'd be better to play it safe and make some sort of serious response.

No two Hyrules are going to look exactly the same. And for a good reason: that would be boring and bad game design.


Agreed. Fans need to realize that geography is a poor timeline indicator.

#36 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 02:26 PM

Which is why I personally consider Geography to absolutely be worthless, and any argument that relies on it is automatically null and void to me.

#37 Pinecove

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 04:24 PM

I'm not going to bother with the people who don't care about geography, I just wanted to post this:
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#38 ganonlord6000

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 05:02 PM

Which is why I personally consider Geography to absolutely be worthless, and any argument that relies on it is automatically null and void to me.


Are landmarks like the Temple of Time/ Master Sword worhless? Or would those fall under a different category?

I've mentioned many times that geography can't possibly be used for timeline evidence. TP is proof of that. That is why I rarely use geography as timeline evidence. I only use what the games give us for timeline evidence, and I only look at any connections that are very obvious, and I really don't like using a lot of speculation.

With that said, I think I will move the FSS to the Child timeline between TP and ALTTP, as the idea of Ganon remerging on the AT would go against the point of TWW and ST, and would fit with Ganon's dying words in TP.

Coming soon (as in sometime this week or next week): A few theories (not related to the timeline)that I'm making for fun.

#39 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 01:24 PM

Are landmarks like the Temple of Time/ Master Sword worhless? Or would those fall under a different category?


Man-made constructs aren't geography.

With that said, I think I will move the FSS to the Child timeline between TP and ALTTP, as the idea of Ganon remerging on the AT would go against the point of TWW and ST, and would fit with Ganon's dying words in TP.


Ditto. This is pretty much the main reason I reject the placement, as it requires ignoring the spirit of the games to try and fill in your own theory.

#40 Showsni

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 03:40 PM

My feelings:

One of the problems with using geography is seperating what's real from gameplay cosntraints. I mean, when you're building a timeline you try to ignore obvious gameplay constriants; people telling you how to perform basic actions, a seemingly limitless inventory, hidden heart pieces being able to extend your life... Geography is a bit of a grey area. Obviously, we'd imagine the geography is as close as possible to how it "real"ly looks; but on the other hand, it's clearly tailored heavily with the gameplay in mind. The map can fit neatly ina square divided into grids; north is at the top, where all the mountains are; there's impassable terrain at all the borders; etc. There's no "real" reason for blocking areas off with rocks and bushes; but there are gameplay reasons for doing so, to guide the player to the right area first. So, geography is compromised. We can't tell how much of it is made up purely for gameplay reasons, which should be ignored in a timeline theory. Thus, it's shaky evidence at best.

Edited by Showsni, 14 September 2010 - 03:41 PM.


#41 ganonlord6000

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 09:44 PM

My feelings:

One of the problems with using geography is seperating what's real from gameplay cosntraints. I mean, when you're building a timeline you try to ignore obvious gameplay constriants; people telling you how to perform basic actions, a seemingly limitless inventory, hidden heart pieces being able to extend your life... Geography is a bit of a grey area. Obviously, we'd imagine the geography is as close as possible to how it "real"ly looks; but on the other hand, it's clearly tailored heavily with the gameplay in mind. The map can fit neatly ina square divided into grids; north is at the top, where all the mountains are; there's impassable terrain at all the borders; etc. There's no "real" reason for blocking areas off with rocks and bushes; but there are gameplay reasons for doing so, to guide the player to the right area first. So, geography is compromised. We can't tell how much of it is made up purely for gameplay reasons, which should be ignored in a timeline theory. Thus, it's shaky evidence at best.

Thank you! This is pretty much what I was saying about geography, as most of it is due to gameplay. That's why I try to rely on artifacts like the MS to decide a game's placement because most of the ancient monuments were said to be in existance since before OOT, and those have no reason to move.




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