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#1 ganonlord6000

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 06:02 PM

Does anyone remember what I mentioned about wanting more arguements on this site? This thread will be a start for that with my latest timeline idea I came up with after OOT (or now SS) was confirmed to be first. That, and there hasn't been any timelines (or good arguements, if any since I came here over a year ago) here in ages. Here it is:


.........../TWW/PH-ST-TMC-FS/FSA
SS-OOT
...........\MM-TP-ALTTP/LA-LOZ/AOL-OOX

The only games I have problems with in this timeline is where the FSS goes. That is basically the question I'm asking here. Where do they fit best?

I have a few more theories coming here soon.

Edited by ganonlord6000, 06 September 2010 - 06:03 PM.


#2 Jarsh

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 07:24 PM

I personally don't think there's much of a problem with the FS series on the AT, but for me it's hard to ignore FSA's connections to ALttP.

#3 SOAP

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 07:45 PM

I personally don't think there's much of a problem with the FS series on the AT, but for me it's hard to ignore FSA's connections to ALttP.


I personally just imagine FSA as a parallel event to ALttP, just on two seperate strands of the timeline split. Sorta like how TP and TWW are supposedly parallel to each other, both taking place roughly the same amount of time after OoT. Of course, it doesn't explain why FSA Hyrule looks so much like ALttP Hyrule if Old Hyrule long gone in the adult timeline but oh well.

#4 Sir Turtlelot

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 08:40 PM

I've personally always liked the FS series on the AT. On my fanon timeline I placed it there. I think it just eliminates the annoying process of trying to force it somewhere on the CT.

#5 SOAP

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 08:54 PM

I've personally always liked the FS series on the AT. On my fanon timeline I placed it there. I think it just eliminates the annoying process of trying to force it somewhere on the CT.


Well FSA can fit between TP and ALttP if you go with the theory that Ganondorf just reincarnates after TP which goes along with Ganon's ominous speech at the end of TP that suggests he'll be back again. And also, I always imagined if they did make another FS game, it would be the Seal War backstory with the four Links being the Knights of Hyrule. But that's just a personal pipedream. In any case, I can see the FS game feasibly fitting in both splits ogf the timeline. I think that's where the difficulty comes from. Not that they can';t fit anywhere but rather they fit almost anywhere since they borrow elements from so many different Zelda games. And none of thyem directly deal with the Mastersword or the Triforce and Ganondorf is supposedly reincarnated in FSA so they cause little contradictions wherever they're place.

Edited by SOAP, 06 September 2010 - 08:56 PM.


#6 Sir Turtlelot

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 09:47 PM

I probably should have worded that a bit better. :P

It's not that it's hard to find a spot for them, it's the fact that they relate to barely anything on the CT. One thing that has always bothered me about the FS series, was that they have no connections with the Triforce & Master Sword, and that the games on the CT don't ever mention anything about the Four Sword or Vaati. I know that, just because it's not mentioned, doesn't mean they don't exist, but it just bothers me that they aren't. But that's just me. Placing them on the AT eliminates all of those little things.

Like I said before, placing he FS series on the AT is just a personal preference of mine, regardless of whether they are actually supposed to be there.

Edited by Sir Turtlelot, 06 September 2010 - 09:49 PM.


#7 SOAP

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 10:32 PM

I probably should have worded that a bit better. :P

It's not that it's hard to find a spot for them, it's the fact that they relate to barely anything on the CT. One thing that has always bothered me about the FS series, was that they have no connections with the Triforce & Master Sword, and that the games on the CT don't ever mention anything about the Four Sword or Vaati. I know that, just because it's not mentioned, doesn't mean they don't exist, but it just bothers me that they aren't. But that's just me. Placing them on the AT eliminates all of those little things.

Like I said before, placing he FS series on the AT is just a personal preference of mine, regardless of whether they are actually supposed to be there.


Actually FSA at least borrows heavily from both the adult and child timeline, mainly from ALttP and TWW. And Vaati is never mentioned because the rest of the CT games were created way before Vaati was ever conceptualized. But yes, I can see how that might hit a snag with you. If you want a timeline with more consistency then placing the FS games in the AT probably would work better for you. I can see it working in either timeline though.

#8 Pinecove

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 01:32 PM

FSA has no references to TP, but plenty of references to being on the Adult timeline (however small they may be).
I see no problem with the timeline other than:

1. When does the Seal War take place?
2. Why does OoX come after AoL when the Triforce is inside HYRULE castle (not North Castle).

#9 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 01:46 PM

2. Why does OoX come after AoL when the Triforce is inside HYRULE castle (not North Castle).


Just because Link used the Triforce in North Castle doesn't mean he decided to keep it there, and I'd wager that awakening a centuries-sleeping Princess and reuniting the kingdom's most valuable treasure is a good basis for reuniting the nation.

#10 Pinecove

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 03:25 PM

Normally I would accept that, but a developer quote from the Magazine "64 DREAM" seems to also imply that OoX comes after ALttP (and possibly even before LA).

開発初期に64DREAM紙上の紹介で神々のトライフォースと同一の時系列と紹介されている。また、ふしぎの木の実のエンディングにリンクが海へ出航するシーンが存在することから夢をみる島への繋がりを匂わせている。
"Back in the early stages of development, yes, we did say to 64DREAM that this game shared the same time line with ALttp. However in the OOX endings there's the scene of Link setting sail into the sea and since that scene exists, it gives light to the connection to Link's Awakening."



#11 Jarsh

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 05:56 PM

We don't know if that's the actual quote, or atwiki's author talking about the alleged quote.

#12 Average Gamer

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 09:27 PM

Zelda also appears to be meeting Link for the first time in OoX, so it's unlikely that they are the same Link and Zelda from ALttP.

#13 ganonlord6000

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 09:41 PM

Zelda also appears to be meeting Link for the first time in OoX, so it's unlikely that they are the same Link and Zelda from ALttP.


Thank you! I've been trying to get this point across for a while, now!

Normally I would accept that, but a developer quote from the Magazine "64 DREAM" seems to also imply that OoX comes after ALttP (and possibly even before LA).

Quote

開発初期に64DREAM紙上の紹介で神々のトライフォースと同一の時系列と紹介されている。また、ふしぎの木の実のエンディングにリンクが海へ出航するシーンが存在することから夢をみる島への繋がりを匂わせている。
"Back in the early stages of development, yes, we did say to 64DREAM that this game shared the same time line with ALttp. However in the OOX endings there's the scene of Link setting sail into the sea and since that scene exists, it gives light to the connection to Link's Awakening."

I completely forgot about that! If we can find a few other sites that mention this (besides wikis), I might change my timeline to reflect it.

1. When does the Seal War take place?

Oh. In my timeline, the IW occurs at some point between TP and ALTTP in which a new Ganondorf emerges and becomes the next Ganon.

#14 Pinecove

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 03:39 PM

Zelda also appears to be meeting Link for the first time in OoX, so it's unlikely that they are the same Link and Zelda from ALttP.

The Japanese character that Zelda uses isn't unfamiliarity though - more like shock. The only word that English really conveys that in though is "right" which is a bit multi contextual.

I completely forgot about that! If we can find a few other sites that mention this (besides wikis), I might change my timeline to reflect it.

Well unless its some sort of a Japanese scandal, I'm pretty sure it's relevant.

Oh. In my timeline, the IW occurs at some point between TP and ALTTP in which a new Ganondorf emerges and becomes the next Ganon.

And it's the first time the Sacred Realm is discovered?

Also: Why is LoZ on a separate timeline from FSA and TMC?

Edited by Pinecove, 08 September 2010 - 03:41 PM.


#15 Sir Turtlelot

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 04:17 PM

Also: Why is LoZ on a separate timeline from FSA and TMC?

Because they are not on the same timeline as ALttP.

#16 Average Gamer

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 08:39 PM

The Japanese character that Zelda uses isn't unfamiliarity though - more like shock. The only word that English really conveys that in though is "right" which is a bit multi contextual.


However, Jacensolo06 said that the translation indicated that Zelda was meeting Link for the first time. I also don't see why she'd even bother to ask Link who he was if she had previously worked with him to save Hyrule.

#17 Alastair

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 05:25 AM

The relevant passage from the translation thread:

I get back home after Christmas and I have a request. :)

Luckily, I had the screenshot from Ages of this.

あぶないトコロを たすけてくれて ありがとうございます
Thank you for rescuing me from danger.

Thank you for saving me from danger.

わたしの なは ゼルダ あなたが リンクですね ひとめ見れば わかります
My name is Zelda. You must be Link. After taking one look at you, I knew.

My name is Zelda. You must be Link. I knew it at first glance.

It's pretty obvious this is the first time she's met him.



#18 Pinecove

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 03:18 PM


Also: Why is LoZ on a separate timeline from FSA and TMC?

Because they are not on the same timeline as ALttP.


In TMC you have to go through the lost woods t get to a graveyard which contains a dungeon which plays the exact same music (albiet modernized) as the dungeon in LoZ which you have to get to in a graveyard by going through the lost woods.
FSA's "Hebra's hill" is the exact same as LoZ's"lost hills."

Make your own conclusions.

The Japanese character that Zelda uses isn't unfamiliarity though - more like shock. The only word that English really conveys that in though is "right" which is a bit multi contextual.


However, Jacensolo06 said that the translation indicated that Zelda was meeting Link for the first time. I also don't see why she'd even bother to ask Link who he was if she had previously worked with him to save Hyrule.


あぶないトコロを たすけてくれて ありがとうございます
わたしの なは ゼルダ あなたが リンクですね ひとめ見れば わかります

That was a close one! Thank you for saving me.
I'm Zelda. You're Link, right? I can tell just by looking at you.

Note: Hmm. You're right, that is pretty weird. It seems she's heard of him but maybe never met him.
The mystery deepens.



#19 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 01:42 PM

In TMC you have to go through the lost woods t get to a graveyard which contains a dungeon which plays the exact same music (albiet modernized) as the dungeon in LoZ which you have to get to in a graveyard by going through the lost woods.
FSA's "Hebra's hill" is the exact same as LoZ's"lost hills."

Make your own conclusions.


Nintendo recycles content like this all the time. Are you honestly trying to argue that the reuse of classical Zelda music is timeline evidence?

#20 Pinecove

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 11:16 AM

I'm saying the music backs up the similarities between the games yes. And I don't think it's co-incidence that just the FS games made references like that.

#21 ganonlord6000

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 01:48 PM

I'm saying the music backs up the similarities between the games yes. And I don't think it's co-incidence that just the FS games made references like that.

Lol music. I would place LOZ/AOL on the AT if the triforce wasn't in those games. That's the only reason I don't put them there anymore. If the Triforce was in ST, I would put them after FSA.

Nintendo recycles content like this all the time. Are you honestly trying to argue that the reuse of classical Zelda music is timeline evidence?


Don't they do this for like....every game series they've ever made? Since when was music considered evidence, anyway?

#22 Pinecove

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 11:12 AM

Lol music. I would place LOZ/AOL on the AT if the triforce wasn't in those games. That's the only reason I don't put them there anymore. If the Triforce was in ST, I would put them after FSA.


Not lolmusic, lolgeography. And that makes sense I guess (except I take the connections as valid and place AlttP on the AT too).

Don't they do this for like....every game series they've ever made? Since when was music considered evidence, anyway?


GEOGRAPHY!!!

In TMC you have to go through the lost woods to get to a graveyard which contains a dungeon which plays the exact same music (albiet modernized) as the dungeon in LoZ which you have to get to in a graveyard by going through the lost woods.
FSA's "Hebra's hill" is the exact same as LoZ's"lost hills."

Make your own conclusions.



#23 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 02:00 PM

GEOGRAPHY!!!


You cited reused music to help make it valid, bro. Learn2worddefinitions.

#24 Pinecove

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 02:34 PM

The music was a minor thing, but my main point was the geography.
And okay I'll "learn2worddefinitions" as you call it. :P

#25 Sir Turtlelot

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 02:37 PM

If memory serves me right, wasn't geography deemed unreliable theorizing evidence, due to it's inconsistency throughout the series?

Even so, that's one tidbit of similar geography from two vastly different maps. Something I wouldn't base the entire placement of a game on. That's just me though.

#26 ganonlord6000

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 03:23 PM

If memory serves me right, wasn't geography deemed unreliable theorizing evidence, due to it's inconsistency throughout the series?

Even so, that's one tidbit of similar geography from two vastly different maps. Something I wouldn't base the entire placement of a game on. That's just me though.


I thought it was deemed unreliable a while ago. Map comparisons can't work for the NES games, anyway since the map was completely revised for ALTTP. Actually, they very rarely work.

#27 Pinecove

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 03:55 PM

[quote name='Sir Turtlelot]If memory serves me right, wasn't geography deemed unreliable theorizing evidence, due to it's inconsistency throughout the series?

Even so, that's one tidbit of similar geography from two vastly different maps. Something I wouldn't base the entire placement of a game on. That's just me though. [/quote]

I call bullshit on the first statement. You can't just deem something non Canon. That's stupid.
As for the second statement, the only things that determine LoZ's placement are geography and the state of the Triforce (and a developer quote from 1999).

[quote name='Ganonlord']I thought it was deemed unreliable a while ago. Map comparisons can't work for the NES games, anyway since the map was completely revised for ALTTP. Actually, they very rarely work. [/quote]
Posted Image

This is jut one of hundreds of comparisons that work between LoZ and ALttP.

#28 Sir Turtlelot

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 04:16 PM

I call bullshit on the first statement. You can't just deem something non Canon. That's stupid.
As for the second statement, the only things that determine LoZ's placement are geography and the state of the Triforce (and a developer quote from 1999).

First of all, it wasn't a statement, it was a question. When I first started theorizing here, I remember there being a lot of debates on the reliability of geography. It was an open question, asking those who take apart of those debates to clarify that for me.

Secondly, there's a difference from unreliable and non canon. Something can be both unreliable but still canon, it just means that other evidence would be more preferred for when attempting to do something. (Like in this case, making adjustments to the timeline.)

I will admit, I have not been an active theorist for some time now, so things may have happened since I was gone. Last time I checked, ALttP was the recognized prequel to LoZ. I remember having this one told to me constantly for trying to separate the two. So if some new creator quote or ingame evidence has retconned this, please, feel free to correct me.

#29 Average Gamer

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 07:11 PM

Posted Image


10. How does a thick forest become a barren, mountainous area with two rivers?

9. How does all of Kakariko Town become a graveyard?

8. This comparison also depends on a grassy, forested area somehow becoming barren and rocky.

7. Not very reliable, but better than the other compared areas.

6. ALttP's river leads to Lake Hylia. LoZ/AoL's river leads to the ocean.

5. Spectacle Rock does match up there.

4. ALttP's Hyrule Castle was on a large mass of land with a moat around it. The area you marked on the LoZ map is just a barren island in the middle of a lake.

3. ALttP has a peninsula there while LoZ has an island.

2. These spots can possibly match up, though the Eastern Palace area was less of a desert and more of a place experiencing a drought.

1. That works, though Zora's Domain is absent in LoZ/AoL.

While I do believe that LoZ and ALttP are supposed to be in the same land (Old Hyrule), the comparisons you made were not very good.

#30 Pinecove

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 09:49 PM

First of all, it wasn't a statement, it was a question. When I first started theorizing here, I remember there being a lot of debates on the reliability of geography. It was an open question, asking those who take apart of those debates to clarify that for me.


Sorry. I'm just saying Geography may not be the BEST or indicators, but it can still work.

I will admit, I have not been an active theorist for some time now, so things may have happened since I was gone. Last time I checked, ALttP was the recognized prequel to LoZ. I remember having this one told to me constantly for trying to separate the two. So if some new creator quote or ingame evidence has retconned this, please, feel free to correct me.


ALttP was definitely the prequel to LoZ in 1998. The question is whether FSA can separate them entirely. I just think FSA should take place on the same timeline as LoZ as well as ALttP.

Edit: Average that's a bad example, I'll give you something better tomorrow.

Edited by Pinecove, 12 September 2010 - 09:50 PM.





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