53 replies to this topic

[Hana-Nezumi]

You think aganim and vaati are related just cuz they're both ganon's pawns and have an eye as a symbol!? Soul Calibur 2!? oni link and aganim! rediculous!

[Hana-Nezumi]

no, darkseid, i wasnt talking about you, i was talking about everyone that did think that

[Zythe]

If you decide to include Soul Calibur 2 in the canon, then that means you're including the Spawn series and the Tekken series as well. Their connections to Soul Calibur 2 are just as strong, and if one is connected, then they all are.

Am I the only one who sees how utterly ridiculous that, and therefore anyone treating SC2 as canon, is?

And on top of that, look at his weapon selection... he has items from all throughout the series. All of this, plus the fact that he is a cameo fighter designed specifically to market a 3rd-party game, screams non-canon to me.

Might as well start including Super Mario RPG in the Zelda timeline. After all, Link can be seen in an inn there, so it must be part of it.

I find the fact that anyone would even consider including it in the canon very bewildering. In this quest for the timeline that wen've all been doing, it seems that some have forgotten the point, and that is to enjoy the timeline of the Zelda games. Instead you're so obsessed with finding some arbitrary truth that some of you actually consider treating a marketing stunt as canon. I almost pity you.






Here:

Thanks for the upload. Eyes are everywhere in Zelda.

[Neon Z]

Why are they a just a gameplay extra? What makes them any less trustworthy then the fact that Link is there at all? If you're going to decide that one Zelda thing is in SC2 is canon, then you should at least do so consistently. Picking and choosing what is canon just to that it fits your desired timeline is bit on the low side.

I'm not picking and choosing anything. Soul Edge had extra weapons too, but, you know what, those weapons were not canon. I'm not saying that Link's extra weapons aren't canon. I'm saying that everyone's extra weapons aren't Soul Calibur canon. The weapon gallery may be canon, but the Extra weapons aren't.

Also, don't you think that if everyone had weapons stronger than the Soul Edge(every legendary weapon is stronger than the Soul Edge) there wouldn't be so many storylines only about searching for the Soul Edge?

See the description of Mitsurugi's Korefuji. It says that his lord confiscated it after Mitsurugi's first quest for the Soul Edge, and it went missing several years later, when his lord died. Now, if it's missing, Mitsurugi can't really have it, can he? What about Link's Magical Sword, which is stated in an underground maze? Or his Mirror Shield, which is stated to be resting in the Spirit Temple?

Also, how would everyone gather all shards of the Soul Edge and have their own full Soul Edges? <_<

And, Don't you think that it's awfully suspect that no Legendary weapon's description mentions any charachter from Soul Calibur? Also, see Necrid. Did you notice how every one of his weapon's descriptions sounds awfully overpowered( He has two weapons which supposedly are able to destroy all life in the planet, if they're fully powered), but the only weapon which mentions him is his normal one?

Oh? Who said this, again? I would bet my life that Soul Calibur 2 is, in fact, a Soul Calibur game... not a Zelda one

Then, give me your life! XD

Aonuma said it.

[Mr. Aonuma displays a movie featuring Super Smash Bros. Melee and Soul Calibur II]What you just saw were two Zelda titles developed by other creators after my involvement with Zelda began.

The first was Super Smash Bros. Melee, and I'm sure you are all aware that this was developed under the direction of Masahiro Sakurai, who is also speaking here at the GDC this year.

The second was Soul Calibur II, which was planned in collaboration with Namco, and which featured Link as an exclusive playable character in the Nintendo GameCube version.

While I was not directly involved in development of these titles, both teams were extremely careful with how they handled the Zelda characters and universe, and their work led to even further expansion and development of the Zelda franchise.

In planning collaborations like these (and the Capcom-developed Oracle games for Game Boy which were listed in the timeline), there can be difficulties in fitting the direction that creators want to take with the existing Zelda universe. And there is also the risk that collaboration work will feel forced -- or even worse -- that it will negatively affect the franchise. But allowing other talent to pioneer new possibilities for the Zelda games is a very important development for the series.

Hum... Your reply will probably be something along the lines of "Might as well start including Super Smas Bros Melee in the Zelda timeline. After all, Link is playable in there, so it must be part of it."

But... don't forget that SSBM lacks something very important... a storyline. It can't be included in any storyline theory if it doesn't have its own storyline.

That little part of my post shouldn't have been there... it's part of something I've thought and disapproved of for a long while, but it is more or less unrelated to Soul Calibur 2 canon debates. Offtopic, basically.

Hum... Ok. But... Just out of curiosity... Does that have anything to do with your dislike for Split Timeline theories?

[coinilius]

Smash Bros. 'storyline' to me, given the opening of the original N64 version, was that it was a child's imagination - a hand (Master Hand) dives into a toy box, takes out some action figures and one, two, three, snaps them to life where they start fighting. They didn't even bother with that in SSBM.

[lord-of-shadow]

Hum... Ok. But... Just out of curiosity... Does that have anything to do with your dislike for Split Timeline theories?

Actually, yes, it does. I'm surprised you've noticed that, actually... I haven't been doing much of my old ranting on the subject lately


And I'll concede the point on the weapon master mode thing... since, obviously, you're right.


In the end though, I still think it's ridiculous to include Soul Calibur in the canon. It's not Zelda; it's a whole other game universe. The thought that the Soul Edge has a place in the Zelda story seems completely ridiculous and out of place to me. Almost blasphemous

I truly do not see why anyone could possibly argue that it should be part of the canon... it's a completely differnet series, a completely different game, with a completely different story, made by a completely different company. I'd include the CD-i games in the canon before I include Soul Calibur. And I would never include the CD-i games in anything.

[Neon Z]

Seriously, if this quote is referring to both SSBM and SC2 then all the info that you state about it has to be relevent to both, you can't choose that one works and one doesn't. It's either both or neither. My choice is neither, as the story of Link in SC2 is kind of lacking, and the story of anybody in SSBM is non existent.

I've never said that SSBM wasn't a Zelda game. I've just said that, because it doesn't have a storyline, it can't be part of the Zelda storyline. SC has one... it's a completely different situation.

In the end though, I still think it's ridiculous to include Soul Calibur in the canon. It's not Zelda; it's a whole other game universe. The thought that the Soul Edge has a place in the Zelda story seems completely ridiculous and out of place to me. Almost blasphemous

I see your point, and I can understand your reasoning... though I don't really agree with it.

I truly do not see why anyone could possibly argue that it should be part of the canon... it's a completely differnet series, a completely different game, with a completely different story, made by a completely different company. I'd include the CD-i games in the canon before I include Soul Calibur. And I would never include the CD-i games in anything.

But... There were 11 members of Nintendo listed in SC2 credits under a "Nintendo Team", that's much better than the CD-i games, which only had Zelda's license, and were developed without any influence from Nintendo.

[Zythe]

Back to the Zelda's wizards debate.

Aghanim may well be Shadow Ganon, same attacks, same style of fighting, similar relationship to Ganon (one controlls the other) etc.

Vaati may well be Dethl - big eye. Vaati may well emulate some god called Dethl, (a big statue in FSGBA shows some relic that Vaati worships). Vaati may have become the eye, when he had near-god status, as he was trying to be some god throughout the whole game ... but then without the Wishing Hat he lost his sorcerer form and became stuck as a big eye.

The AoL wizard? Who knows? No one. End of story on him.

Ganon - trident, ToP, Gerudo king. Is he a man that became a demon? A demon with the form of a man? The trident is evil, it has great power, and is the focus of HA - but did it make Ganon. I think not. I see it as MC-OOT-MM-TWW-FS-OOA/S-HA-LTTP-LA-LOZ-AOL.

No more SCII 2 talk. If any admins whould wish to continue with this, they can always split the topic in two, and have a seperate SCII-canon debate. /end

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Somebody a few threads back said that Vaati was ganon's pawn. In MC he definitely is not.

Also, Vaati when he transforms tends to take on a shadowy mass that has a slight hint of a single red eye in it, before turning into his sorcerer form, then his more powerful sorcerer form and then his God forms respectively.

I believe Vaati is the origin of this one-eye God thingie.

[MikePetersSucks]

Or since it's like, a spiritual entity that only exists as a manifestation of the Wind Fish's nightmares, but Cheese's theory works too.

*to quote Hex from Discworld*

BZZT! OUT OF CHEESE!

[coinilius]

Zangus - it means the Impa stainglass window in tWW

[coinilius]

That's ok, I remember scratching my head over that one when I first saw that comparison picture as well, before I realised what they were talking about

[Zythe]

Somebody a few threads back said that Vaati was ganon's pawn. In MC he definitely is not.
 
Also, Vaati when he transforms tends to take on a shadowy mass that has a slight hint of a single red eye in it, before turning into his sorcerer form, then his more powerful sorcerer form and then his God forms respectively.
 
I believe Vaati is the origin of this one-eye God thingie.

Or, the one-eye God thingy is the Hylian equivalent of the Devl, which is why these dark magick-wielders have the symbol of the eye, in awe of where their powers come from. Dethl, maybe?