62 replies to this topic

[Pinecove]

As you can see, Hyrule has had more than one war.

But the "wars" can reference not different wars themselves, but a war consisting of battles over different things.

Before the King of Hyrule had unified this country... there was a violent war.

Hmm...that's interesting.

Also why didn't the translators get that done (not to be offensive or anything it's just that I'm curoius.)?

[Average Gamer]

But the "wars" can reference not different wars themselves, but a war consisting of battles over different things.

I don't see how. Gor Coron didn't say prolonged battles or prolonged war (since a war with many battles would still just be one war), he said prolonged wars, as in more than one.

Also why didn't the translators get that done

LA's translators did cover the Sprout's speech; I just posted one part of it.

Edited by Average Gamer, 24 December 2009 - 06:52 PM.

[Pinecove]

I don't see how. Gor Coron didn't say prolonged battles or prolonged war (since a war with many battles would still just be one war), he said prolonged wars, as in more than one.

This is why we need the Japanese translations for this. Until then it's a matter of opinion.

LA's translators did cover the Sprout's speech; I just posted one part of it.

I meant Cor Goron in TP.

[Average Gamer]

I meant Cor Goron in TP.

As far as I know, nobody requested it. I'm not sure when you could get it translated either, since Jumbie's doing other stuff, jacensolo06's apparently taking a break, and MPS hates going through text dumps.

[Fin]

I don't see how. Gor Coron didn't say prolonged battles or prolonged war (since a war with many battles would still just be one war), he said prolonged wars, as in more than one.

Isn't Japanese sometimes a little ambiguous about whether a word is singular or plural? It may have been possible to translate the original phrase into either prolonged war or prolonged wars.

[Average Gamer]

Isn't Japanese sometimes a little ambiguous about whether a word is singular or plural? It may have been possible to translate the original phrase into either prolonged war or prolonged wars.

Like I told Destiny, we can't really check right now. At the moment we only have the NoA quote to work with.

[Fin]

Oh I know, just food for thought.

[Pinecove]

I forgot to bring this up but: In both the prolonged wars and the fierce war the sheikah were said to have died out: This proves the wars are connected in some way.

[Nerushi]

I forgot to bring this up but: In both the prolonged wars and the fierce war the sheikah were said to have died out: This proves the wars are connected in some way.

Doesn't prove that the interloper conflict is connected to either of them though.

[Average Gamer]

I forgot to bring this up but: In both the prolonged wars and the fierce war the sheikah were said to have died out: This proves the wars are connected in some way.

I don't recall any specific quote that said that the Sheikah had died out in the Fierce War, just that they were thought to have died out by the time of OoT. The Fierce War would just fit into the prolonged wars anyway.

[Pinecove]

Alright you guys win. Thanks for the contributions.

[Altum]

Yeah, you can't use English translations as a given in debates of "war" versus "wars." I studied Japanese for years (though I'm a bit rusty now) and as far as I can can recall, plural and singular are generally not differentiated. It would be the same word.

[Average Gamer]

Yeah, you can't use English translations as a given in debates of "war" versus "wars." I studied Japanese for years (though I'm a bit rusty now) and as far as I can can recall, plural and singular are generally not differentiated. It would be the same word.

We can't get the line translated right now though, and I recall MPS once saying that Japanese sometimes says specific things to indicate plurals.

[MikePetersSucks]

Keyword here being sometimes.

[Average Gamer]

Keyword here being sometimes.

I know. That "prolonged wars" line might be one of those instances, but we can't check right now.

[Altum]

We can't get the line translated right now though, and I recall MPS once saying that Japanese sometimes says specific things to indicate plurals.

Right. I'm just saying it's pointless to argue over it because we don't have the original text to look at. It's likely they used the basic word for war in this context without any sort of modifier, because it's such a minor line (if I recall correctly). If anyone has the actual Japanese for me to look at, I could probably tell you.

[Perry_]

Am I the only one that has noticed that with our currently knowledge it's extremely unlikely that any game involving the triforce takes place after TP? The triforce of power currently in the twilight realm causing who knows what level of havoc. Assuming any triforce central games come afterwords would be using an Occam's Razor argument.

On another note: Hi I'm Perry and looks like interesting forum you have here, figured I might hang around for a bit.

[Fin]

What makes you think the Triforce of Power is in the Twilight Realm? Ganondorf dies in Hyrule, and all we know besides that is that he lost the Triforce.

[MikePetersSucks]

The triforce of power currently in the twilight realm causing who knows what level of havoc.

Did you even finish the game? Because nothing even remotely similar to anything in that sentence happens.

[Perry_]

The triforce of power currently in the twilight realm causing who knows what level of havoc.

Did you even finish the game? Because nothing even remotely similar to anything in that sentence happens.

Yes I did finish the game (TP spoilers),

Spoiler

and although nothing specific is said it's deeply implied that Zant stole the ToP from Ganondorf. Without the ToP Ganondorf falls over and dies. Now if Zant had the ToP he would become the next dark lord / powerful villain. This also explains why Midna destroyed the mirror after the end credits, destroying the mirror would destroy any means of Zant invading Hyrule, this time with a much stronger power. The shattering of the mirror also however seals the ToP in the Twilight Realm.

Edited by Perry_, 13 January 2010 - 10:31 PM.

[-Kado-]

The triforce of power currently in the twilight realm causing who knows what level of havoc.

Did you even finish the game? Because nothing even remotely similar to anything in that sentence happens.

Yes I did finish the game (TP spoilers),

Spoiler

and although nothing specific is said it's deeply implied that Zant stole the ToP from Ganondorf. Without the ToP Ganondorf falls over and dies. Now if Zant had the ToP he would become the next dark lord / powerful villain. This also explains why Midna destroyed the mirror after the end credits, destroying the mirror would destroy any means of Zant invading Hyrule, this time with a much stronger power. The shattering of the mirror also however seals the ToP in the Twilight Realm.

Wow, no. Never once do they imply that Zant steals the triforce. In fact they imply the exact opposite. After you beat Zant, he states that as long as Ganondorf lives on, he will never die. Then when you beat Ganondorf, it shows a short clip of Zant's head being wrenched sideways along with some cracking noises, implying that he died, because Ganondorf died! Midna shattered the mirror to prevent the twilight realm from ever interfering in the real world ever again.

[Perry_]

The triforce of power currently in the twilight realm causing who knows what level of havoc.

Did you even finish the game? Because nothing even remotely similar to anything in that sentence happens.

Yes I did finish the game (TP spoilers),

Spoiler

and although nothing specific is said it's deeply implied that Zant stole the ToP from Ganondorf. Without the ToP Ganondorf falls over and dies. Now if Zant had the ToP he would become the next dark lord / powerful villain. This also explains why Midna destroyed the mirror after the end credits, destroying the mirror would destroy any means of Zant invading Hyrule, this time with a much stronger power. The shattering of the mirror also however seals the ToP in the Twilight Realm.

Wow, no. Never once do they imply that Zant steals the triforce. In fact they imply the exact opposite. After you beat Zant, he states that as long as Ganondorf lives on, he will never die. Then when you beat Ganondorf, it shows a short clip of Zant's head being wrenched sideways along with some cracking noises, implying that he died, because Ganondorf died! Midna shattered the mirror to prevent the twilight realm from ever interfering in the real world ever again.

That not what I got from it. When Ganondorf was weak Zant seized the opportunity and used some magic (not sure if it's interloper or ToP magic) to steal the ToP and kill Ganondrof. It starts with Ganondorf talking about how it isn't the end but then he unexpectantly looses the ToP, the symbol fades from his wrist and the sound of a machine shutting down is heard. We then see Zant, who is perfectly fine, we then see Zant crack his neck, which would appear to be some sort of spell, which kills Ganondorf. There is no evidence of Zant ever dieing.

Your reasoning why Midna shattered the mirror does not make a lot of sense, Zelda explains in an interesting speech of why the mirror was left in Hyrule and why it should be kept there. Then Midna shatters it, which would completely contradict everything Zelda just said... However if Zant obtained the ToP, like it is implied, he would be a grave threat to both the Twilight Realm and Hyrule. Midna destroying the mirror would stop Zant wreaking havoc again, she would not put Hyrule at risk and allow history to repeat itself. Breaking the mirror would assure Hyrule's safety.

[-Kado-]

The triforce of power currently in the twilight realm causing who knows what level of havoc.

Did you even finish the game? Because nothing even remotely similar to anything in that sentence happens.

Yes I did finish the game (TP spoilers),

Spoiler

and although nothing specific is said it's deeply implied that Zant stole the ToP from Ganondorf. Without the ToP Ganondorf falls over and dies. Now if Zant had the ToP he would become the next dark lord / powerful villain. This also explains why Midna destroyed the mirror after the end credits, destroying the mirror would destroy any means of Zant invading Hyrule, this time with a much stronger power. The shattering of the mirror also however seals the ToP in the Twilight Realm.

Wow, no. Never once do they imply that Zant steals the triforce. In fact they imply the exact opposite. After you beat Zant, he states that as long as Ganondorf lives on, he will never die. Then when you beat Ganondorf, it shows a short clip of Zant's head being wrenched sideways along with some cracking noises, implying that he died, because Ganondorf died! Midna shattered the mirror to prevent the twilight realm from ever interfering in the real world ever again.

That not what I got from it. When Ganondorf was weak Zant seized the opportunity and used some magic (not sure if it's interloper or ToP magic) to steal the ToP and kill Ganondrof. It starts with Ganondorf talking about how it isn't the end but then he unexpectantly looses the ToP, the symbol fades from his wrist and the sound of a machine shutting down is heard. We then see Zant, who is perfectly fine, we then see Zant crack his neck, which would appear to be some sort of spell, which kills Ganondorf. There is no evidence of Zant ever dieing.

Your reasoning why Midna shattered the mirror does not make a lot of sense, Zelda explains in an interesting speech of why the mirror was left in Hyrule and why it should be kept there. Then Midna shatters it, which would completely contradict everything Zelda just said... However if Zant obtained the ToP, like it is implied, he would be a grave threat to both the Twilight Realm and Hyrule. Midna destroying the mirror would stop Zant wreaking havoc again, she would not put Hyrule at risk and allow history to repeat itself. Breaking the mirror would assure Hyrule's safety.

I don't think I'm going to argue with you over this. It's not worth it. Your views on implications are severely skewed and inaccurate, and like a religious fanatic, I can tell that no matter what I say, you will not be swayed. I'll let someone else take the floor.

[MikePetersSucks]

That not what I got from it. When Ganondorf was weak Zant seized the opportunity and used some magic (not sure if it's interloper or ToP magic) to steal the ToP and kill Ganondrof

It's impossible to steal Triforce pieces; this is a fact.

It starts with Ganondorf talking about how it isn't the end but then he unexpectantly looses the ToP, the symbol fades from his wrist and the sound of a machine shutting down is heard. We then see Zant, who is perfectly fine, we then see Zant crack his neck, which would appear to be some sort of spell, which kills Ganondorf. There is no evidence of Zant ever dieing.

What the hell kind of bizarro universe do you live in where SNAPPING YOUR NECK means casting a spell, and not dying? Because when someone's neck snaps, they instantly die. Just like Ganondorf...instantly dies. Zant can live as long as Ganondorf lives, but he can only live as long as Ganondorf is alive. That's their tradeoff.

Your reasoning why Midna shattered the mirror does not make a lot of sense, Zelda explains in an interesting speech of why the mirror was left in Hyrule and why it should be kept there. Then Midna shatters it, which would completely contradict everything Zelda just said... However if Zant obtained the ToP, like it is implied, he would be a grave threat to both the Twilight Realm and Hyrule. Midna destroying the mirror would stop Zant wreaking havoc again, she would not put Hyrule at risk and allow history to repeat itself. Breaking the mirror would assure Hyrule's safety.

How in the hell would Midna even know about Zant? And why not simply tell Link this, and go kick his ass? They've done it before. Hell, Ganondorf demonstrates that the Triforce of Power allows him to travel the realms without needing the mirror, so destroying the Mirror wouldn't stop Zant whatsoever.

Your idea is complete and total crap, dude, sorry.

[Perry_]

It's impossible to steal Triforce pieces; this is a fact.

What the hell kind of bizarro universe do you live in where SNAPPING YOUR NECK means casting a spell, and not dying? Because when someone's neck snaps, they instantly die. Just like Ganondorf...instantly dies. Zant can live as long as Ganondorf lives, but he can only live as long as Ganondorf is alive. That's their tradeoff.

How in the hell would Midna even know about Zant? And why not simply tell Link this, and go kick his ass? They've done it before. Hell, Ganondorf demonstrates that the Triforce of Power allows him to travel the realms without needing the mirror, so destroying the Mirror wouldn't stop Zant whatsoever.

Your idea is complete and total crap, dude, sorry.

Hmm, perhaps I'll go watch the scene again with this in mind. But I could have sworn the above is what happened. Thank you though MikePeterSucks for taking the time to point various things out to me. Before I go back though, I remember the end sequence to have Zant controlling ganondorf like a puppet when he was weak, killing him via cracking his neck making ganondorf crack his neck, taking the triforce, etc. But as you stated it's impossible to steal triforce pieces... I've heard this before as well but I can't think where from. But yes, I'll go and watch this scene again.

Edited by Perry_, 14 January 2010 - 01:43 AM.

[Arturo]

You don't need to use spoiler tags for TP, since it came out 3 years ago.

[Erimgard]

It's impossible to steal Triforce pieces; this is a fact.

??
We see Ganondorf do it in Wind Waker.

[Showsni]

And the backstory of LoZ is Ganondorf stealing the ToP without even a piece of his own to help. It is impossible to steal the whole triforce from someone so long as they live; but steaing individual pieces does seem to be possible.

[Average Gamer]

?? We see Ganondorf do it in Wind Waker.

I think MPS meant that you have to defeat the owner of a Triforce piece and claim it yourself afterward. Zant didn't defeat Ganondorf and the ToP vanishes before Zant's spirit is even seen. Also, Zant presumably couldn't have taken a Triforce piece, as he was dead at that point.

Edited by Average Gamer, 15 January 2010 - 06:25 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

??
We see Ganondorf do it in Wind Waker.

That was the Triforce gathering together into one, as is fated to happen when the three pieces are brought together. That's not Ganondorf stealing it, seeing as...you know, he didn't even get it.

And the backstory of LoZ is Ganondorf stealing the ToP without even a piece of his own to help. It is impossible to steal the whole triforce from someone so long as they live; but steaing individual pieces does seem to be possible.

The Triforce of Power wasn't "within" someone. I would wager that no one technically owned it at the time. Keeping it in a room doesn't seem to count, since Triforces dwell within the owner.