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#1 GuardianNinja

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 09:01 PM

http://www.destructo...ng-139498.phtml

Nintendo confirms there is no timeline with a boilerplate response (premade for fans that keep sending messages/letters about the same thing)
Kinda a buzz kill, but I always knew this was the truth for some reason. Whats your guy's take on this?

#2 Impossible

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 09:13 PM

Thoughts:

1. LOL NoA.

2. The guy who made that is a fucking idiot, and nothing makes me rage more than seeing one of those shitty YouTube timelines gets widespread internet attention. I've seen that on two sites now, and it's disgusting, nobody should be watching that garbage. Seriously, please don't watch it, save yourself the pain. Not only is he an arrogant douchebag, but his theories are incoherent garbage that suggests barely a passing knowledge of any of the games.

3. LOL NoA.

4. Sure, there's no real possible continuity, which is why every single Zelda game ever made, save for the original and FS, had explicit and official connections to at least one other Zelda game at the time of its release, and by extension, to nearly every Zelda game.

5. Did I mention... LOL NoA.

*vanishes for another month... fuck, I need to get version 1.6 out before ST comes out...*

Edited by Impossible, 18 July 2009 - 09:17 PM.


#3 GuardianNinja

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 09:17 PM

My favorite part is when one of the members said this:

There is a timeline and it's pretty obvious.
It starts with Ocarina of Time, because it is the best game because everyone says it is the best game, followed by Majora's Mask because Masks are cool. Then comes the NES games because they are old and therefore should come in the middle so the retro fans don't get pissy. The handheld games don't count as they are handheld and thus shouldn't count. Twilight Princess comes next because Wind Waker was too kiddy to be part of the HARDCORE timeline because the graphics don't look like realism. Then Ocarina of Time again because Blue is the color of Linkens tonic is blue like the sky which is up high. Sony needs to make these things more clear.

It made me laugh... hard.


Edit:

Nintendo even confirmed that the connections with the newer games (mentioning an event or two) to the older ones is just for the hell of it too.

Edited by GuardianNinja, 18 July 2009 - 09:19 PM.


#4 Selena

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 09:25 PM

Wrapping all the games into a universal timeline - shitty, needlessly convoluted story.

Games standing on their own with the occasional direct sequel - much better.

#5 Person

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 11:22 PM

I think I saw that video. Lol NoA. His theory sucked anyway.

#6 GuardianNinja

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 11:55 PM

Yay timelines mean nothing! again. Well I was gonna try to make a single time line because of how I believe time works, but now I feel like why bother.

#7 Person

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 12:18 AM

Yay timelines mean nothing! again. Well I was gonna try to make a single time line because of how I believe time works, but now I feel like why bother.


You know Miyamoto and Aonuma still say there's a timeline. This was just an NoA form letter response to some douchebag on YouTube.

#8 Smertios

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 12:59 AM

How can someone take NoA seriously about that?? <_<

#9 GuardianNinja

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 01:28 AM

Quite easily actually.

#10 Duke Serkol

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 09:11 AM

Wow, I don't think lol NoA even begins to cover this... maybe more like

ROTFLMFAO NOA!!111111

There, I think that should suffice :)

#11 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 01:41 PM

NoA has no authority on this matter. All they really do is translate and publish the games for their part of the globe. Now if Nintendo of Japan, which actually created the games and wrote the plot, said this, you'd be on to something, but they said the exact opposite.

Also, I'm starting to suspect this GuardianNinja guy is a troll, since all he says is "There's no timeline" over and over and over.

#12 GuardianNinja

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 03:17 PM

Thats my theory -_- You telling me I cant have a theory without being suspected as a troll, even though I have been a member for years..

#13 Jarsh

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 04:26 PM

Too bad that response NoA sent has been around since... sometime after the release of The Wind Waker. Seriously, I've asked them before and got the same response, it's nothing new. Also, ocarinahero's timeline made me vomit in my mouth. Notice how EVERYBODY IS PRAISING HIM IN THE COMMENTS.

I would like to join in on this great thread:

LOL NoA.

#14 Average Gamer

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 04:46 PM

Lol NoA.

Lol ocarinahero10's shitty timeline.

#15 Showsni

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 06:17 PM

And even if Shigeru himself came and said that there's no intended timeline, does it really matter? Personally, I think trying to put together and argue a coherent timeline is a fun endeavour whether or not you're trying to discover "Nintendo's One True Timeline."

#16 Duke Serkol

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 07:42 PM

You telling me I cant have a theory without being suspected as a troll, even though I have been a member for years..

It's more of a lack of theory than one really. But really what MPS attacked you for is that since you discovered this, you've posted into several thread to say essentially nothing more than "lulz, it's all pointless, there ain't no timeline".
Which is something that when done within debate topics of a message board about the storyline, is in fact appropriately considered trolling.

I mean, you can pursuit this theory if you want to, but not by just posting into any random threads to bring up that statement. If you really feel there's no timeline, then to defend/promote that position you ought to point out flaws in attempts at constructing a functioning timeline, show us why there actually would be no timeline, with evidence more to the point of the specific thread than "NoA says so".

#17 joeymartin64

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 09:10 PM

The canon status of frigging Miyamoto's and Aonuma's comments is debatable. No way in hell you can take NoA seriously in any way regarding this stuff.

Short version: LOL NOA

Personally, I've kinda taken to not giving a rat's ass about Nintendo's intentions. I just kinda shove the games into an order that seems to fit, make shit up for the interim time periods, and shift/revise that as new releases require. As long as stuff isn't outright contradicted by anything, I throw it into a "good enough for me" category, and don't care about convincing anyone else. Much more enjoyable when it's not Serious Business. Not that I actually have a timeline written down anywhere. It's been years since I've done that.

#18 SOAP

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 10:39 PM

Even if there's no timeline, I don't understand why it would be pointless to come up with our own? Sure none of them would be canon but that doesn't mean we can't do it just out pure fun and establishing a community. It's a part of fandom. It doesn't have to have a point, it just needs to be fun. I'd agree that it's pointless to bicker and get worked up over time lines though.

Anyways, what MPS said. Yadda yadda. *goes back to doing the homework he's SUPPOSED to be doing*

#19 bjamez7573

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 12:54 AM

I join too:

LOL NOA

It's also really annoying when people like ocarinahero10 are all, "my timeline is the only correct one." How are we going to find the truth about the LOZ story without expanding our minds to other people's points of view? Attitudes like that only take the fun of out theorizing.

Also, ocarinahero's timeline made me vomit in my mouth. Notice how EVERYBODY IS PRAISING HIM IN THE COMMENTS.


There may be a reason for that - each comment requires approval. He may only be letting comments that praise his timeline be posted.

#20 spunky-monkey

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 08:47 AM

Had to laugh at Ocarinahero10's timeline, such a sad mess, giving no proper explanation as to why he's connected the games in that order. He assures himself (hey he's fooling no one else) that his pompous self-righteousness will prevail through thick and thin, only to said enormous ego deflated by NoA telling him what was already old news to most older fans of the franchise: There is no single Zelda timeline in its entirety.

His "Save Zelda" campaign is ridiculous, moreso than that convoluted mess; no employee in Nintendo would ever undertake the trivium of trying to connect all these games together while removing any inconsistencies, keeping the rabid fans happy and 'filling in the gaps' between titles. In a sense I'm glad Ninty have denounced an overall timeline as I prefer to have it this way:

Timeline #1 LoZ > AoL
Timeline #2 ALttP >LA/DX
Timeline #3 OoT > MM
Timeline #4 OoS < > OoA
Timeline #5 WW > PH
Timeline #6 MC > FS > FSA

There you go, but if you still insist on one perfect timeline (and a pony for Christmas), knock yourself out.

#21 GuardianNinja

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 10:47 AM

Splitting them up makes a whole shit more sense if you ask me, :D

#22 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 01:46 PM

Timeline #1 LoZ > AoL
Timeline #2 ALttP >LA/DX
Timeline #3 OoT > MM
Timeline #4 OoS < > OoA
Timeline #5 WW > PH
Timeline #6 MC > FS > FSA


WW and TP are confirmed sequels to OOT, but otherwise, more power to ya.

#23 GuardianNinja

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 01:56 PM

Where/when was that confirmed?

#24 joeymartin64

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 02:51 PM

They both definitely occur after OoT, but direct sequelage is from a creator quote, I believe, and some don't consider those canon.

#25 Person

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 06:30 PM

They both definitely occur after OoT, but direct sequelage is from a creator quote, I believe, and some don't consider those canon.

Direct sequelage for both of them is right there in text for the games. Even Showsni, one of the only single-timeliners left in our ranks, leaves TP out of his timeline because it doesn't fit with a single-timeline.

#26 joeymartin64

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 06:49 PM

I'm a single-timeliner, but I don't know if I'd still qualify for the "ranks." I totally get why it's "right there" in TWW, but I never understood why everybody just assumed that the "hero" everyone kept harping on about in TP was the Hero of Time. It's never explicitly stated, and what IS said about the hero could just as easily apply to the Hero of Winds.

#27 Person

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 07:59 PM

I'm a single-timeliner, but I don't know if I'd still qualify for the "ranks." I totally get why it's "right there" in TWW, but I never understood why everybody just assumed that the "hero" everyone kept harping on about in TP was the Hero of Time. It's never explicitly stated, and what IS said about the hero could just as easily apply to the Hero of Winds.

The whole deal that Ganondorf has never fought Link before, and the Master Sword is in the Temple of Time like it was in OoT, and no flood is ever mentioned, and Ganondorf is only remembered as some criminal from the past, not the King of Evil, and Ganondorf gets the Triforce via Deus ex Machina rather than breaking open the Sacred Realm. The reason he's never called the Hero of Time is because he never traveled through time in the people's perspective. We also have the songs from MM written on stones that Link howls. If the common fan theory that Hero's Shade is indeed OoT Link is correct, that's the only explanation as to how they got there, because only OoT Link would know those songs.

And the Japanese text of TWW implies a split timeline even more. It says that Link went back in time and disappeared. Most single-timeliners say that the reason he didn't show up to stop Ganon is that he went to Termina which is only implied by the American version and was probably a translation screw-up.

Edited by Person, 21 July 2009 - 08:02 PM.


#28 joeymartin64

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 09:40 PM

This'll be fun. Bear in mind, I'm not trying to "convince" you that I'm right, just that my way isn't impossible, so please don't pull Occam's Razor on me.

The whole deal that Ganondorf has never fought Link before...

Where does it say that?

...the Master Sword is in the Temple of Time like it was in OoT...

Doesn't necessarily imply anything. It moves around a lot, and there's no reason one of its resting places couldn't be a former one.

...and no flood is ever mentioned...

The Triforce is never mentioned, either. TP is stupidy ambiguous about that sort of thing.

...and Ganondorf is only remembered as some criminal from the past, not the King of Evil...

Nobody in TWW except the major players even knew anything was going on.

...and Ganondorf gets the Triforce via Deus ex Machina rather than breaking open the Sacred Realm...

It's unprovable how he got it, or when he got it.

The reason he's never called the Hero of Time is because he never traveled through time in the people's perspective.

The prophecy is all about the "Hero of Time." There's also the Ocarina of Time and the Temple of Time, all from before anybody did any time travel at all. Still, given TP's ambiguity, this is of little consequence.

We also have the songs from MM written on stones that Link howls. If the common fan theory that Hero's Shade is indeed OoT Link is correct, that's the only explanation as to how they got there, because only OoT Link would know those songs.

I don't think those are really anything more than shout-outs and 64-era fanservice, based on how people recieved TWW. "You want stuff from OoT and MM? Fine." Also, the Hero's Shade could very well be the Hero of Winds. He died before new Hyrule was complete, hence he could pass on his teachings, which include moves that TWW Link had (I know, technical limitations, my own shout-out argument, ect. I don't hold this point up too much, but I may as well mention it.)

And the Japanese text of TWW implies a split timeline even more. It says that Link went back in time and disappeared. Most single-timeliners say that the reason he didn't show up to stop Ganon is that he went to Termina which is only implied by the American version and was probably a translation screw-up.

He went back in time and starred in a sequel where he went to another world. "Disappeared" is a bit more ambiguous, but that's really all it can mean. Also, MM Link is seen back in Hyrule during the ending, so I have no bloody idea why anybody would think he never got back.

I always assumed that Ganondorf simply returned after OoT Link's natural life ended, and people just misunderstood the term "Hero of Time," thinking he could always show up, when in fact he was just a kid who happened to have some time-controlling trinkets, but couldn't come back from the dead.

Erm... this is getting off the established topic here, but only so many people can say "LOL NOA" until the topic is played out. Should we take this to another thread, or continue here?

#29 Person

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:46 AM

This'll be fun. Bear in mind, I'm not trying to "convince" you that I'm right, just that my way isn't impossible, so please don't pull Occam's Razor on me.
Where does it say that?

Ganon doesn't recognize the Master Sword. I'd say it would be a bit of a stretch to say that he wouldn't remember the sword that killed him.

Nobody in TWW except the major players even knew anything was going on.

The pirates know about it, and Ganon was mentioned in the ancient legends in the prologue. And then we're still left with the OoT problem.

He went back in time and starred in a sequel where he went to another world. "Disappeared" is a bit more ambiguous, but that's really all it can mean. Also, MM Link is seen back in Hyrule during the ending, so I have no bloody idea why anybody would think he never got back.

I always assumed that Ganondorf simply returned after OoT Link's natural life ended, and people just misunderstood the term "Hero of Time," thinking he could always show up, when in fact he was just a kid who happened to have some time-controlling trinkets, but couldn't come back from the dead.


You're still left with the problems of the TWW prologue. Link defeats Ganon and travels back in time, disappearing and not returning when Ganon breaks out of the Sacred Realm. We're also left with the ridiculous "The world de-flooded" argument that really has no basis given the finality of TWW's ending.

About the Master Sword, TP specifically seems to indicate that its placement isn't supposed to just shift around.
OoT-In the ToT
TP-In the ruined ToT, which have become overgrown. The ending even gives an exact parallel to the official art from ALttP depicting the MS in the Lost Woods.
ALttP-In the Lost Woods.

The only time it shifts placement is in the adult timeline, when its in the castle. This is ultimately inconsequential as it's stuck underwater and forever at the ending.

#30 joeymartin64

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 01:40 AM

Ganon doesn't recognize the Master Sword. I'd say it would be a bit of a stretch to say that he wouldn't remember the sword that killed him.

Not necessarily. He may just be acting all boastful. How likely is it for an egotistical villain to say something like "That sword ruined my shit, so you really have a chance"?

The pirates know about it, and Ganon was mentioned in the ancient legends in the prologue. And then we're still left with the OoT problem.

Still, not many people knew. Plus, there really wouldn't be a reason for the flood to come up specifically in TP if the legend is common knowledge. A story known by everyone is basically a universal "that one time."

You're still left with the problems of the TWW prologue. Link defeats Ganon and travels back in time, disappearing and not returning when Ganon breaks out of the Sacred Realm. We're also left with the ridiculous "The world de-flooded" argument that really has no basis given the finality of TWW's ending.

No, you're not. TWW doesn't specify how much time passes before Ganon rolls up. It could easily, easily be that he just comes back after Link dies of age. Link, being dead and all, wouldn't be able to return in that case. To the people, it would look like he "disappeared" because he presumably didn't do anything of note after returning from Termina.

No basis? Deku Tree? The fact that Ganondorf mentions "people that would one day awaken Hyrule"?

About the Master Sword, TP specifically seems to indicate that its placement isn't supposed to just shift around.
OoT-In the ToT
TP-In the ruined ToT, which have become overgrown. The ending even gives an exact parallel to the official art from ALttP depicting the MS in the Lost Woods.
ALttP-In the Lost Woods.

Eh, yeah. Still, this isn't hard proof for anything. Could be that the King placed it in the castle as part of his master plan, then it was put back in its "rightful place" after the world revived. Plus, if you're driving at those ultimately being the same place, you'd run into the problem of the place itself shifting around.

The only time it shifts placement is in the adult timeline, when its in the castle. This is ultimately inconsequential as it's stuck underwater and forever at the ending.

I'm assuming a single timeline, and, like I said, this doesn't really prove anything.

Edited by joeymartin64, 22 July 2009 - 01:42 AM.





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