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#1 Impossible

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 02:22 AM

Sometimes I think the discussion is only dead around here because we have a fear of making new topics. We have great discussions when one actually gets made. A new Zelda game is announced, and nothing?

Anyway, from my RAEG over the way people jumped to conclusions about PH, and even TP, before they were released, I advise against looking too far into things. In other words, if you see some kind of visual parallel or potential reference to a Zelda game, don't start saying it supports your timeline. It's been done a few times, sadly. Nevertheless, I think we should talk about it in some sense, at least what we think/expect/hope for, and what we may have noticed in the trailer. I don't normally do this with newly announced Zelda games, but we've just been starved with anything new for so long, and I'm sure we're all curious about the direction they plan on taking the story in, since we haven't seen a trace of that since TP (PH just being a side-story that didn't develop anything).

As someone who constantly tries to logically focus on development and the way the games are made, probably more so than the majority, I find the use of PH's engine and graphics interesting. OoX excepted, this usually means a direct sequel, and OoX has its own reasons (particularly relating to it being the first non-Nintendo made Zelda). Still, we see Link bowing to Zelda in a formal, unfamiliar meeting. So I have to say it isn't Link from TWW/PH, and it's not Tetra. Still, almost the natural decision, even from Nintendo's perspective, might just be to still have it continue after PH, but due to the usual "two games per Link" rule, extent the time between them to a couple hundred years... Which would seriously fuck with TWW's intention. I don't think it would mean that's what they had in mind this whole time - Nintendo make the games first, they don't make a game FOR a timeline-related reason, period. It would be a spur of the moment thing resulting from wanting ST to make sense, as it just looks similar. They're taking it one game at a time. Of course, we don't even know that the setting has to be Hyrule, but there is a castle and Zelda is a princess, so I would guess so.

It's also been proposed as a game between OoT and TWW, which would be a bit sad, because the DS can't do justice to the cel-shaded Hyrule I've wanted to see since TWW gave us a glimpse of it. And wow, how many sequels to OoT can Nintendo make?!

Personally, I'm pissed off by ST being a PH rehash for other reasons (like the gameplay and graphics being very different to what I'd like from a Zelda game), even if it ends up being on the Child Timeline. But don't you think there's something inherently confusing about that? Sure, TMC/FS/FSA borrowed from TWW's style, but they weren't identical, just based on it. Here we have the same character models and everything, leading people to already assume a connection to PH. Same system + same engine and graphics basically always has meant that before, but here we have a break in the usual "pair" of games per system (a la OoT/MM), due to PH being the pair of a game on another system. So who knows where they're going? Hopefully there will be interviews about this soon, as current Nintendo seems to be okay with talking about the timeline placement of the newest game, usually. Too bad nobody ever asks them about the older ones.

Edited by Impossible, 08 April 2009 - 09:22 AM.


#2 Average Gamer

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 03:00 AM

I agree that we shouldn't look into this too much at the moment. Honestly, we don't know a thing, and even if we had a clue there'd be plenty of time for a script revision or for Miyamoto to come in and upend the teatable.

#3 Erimgard

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 09:55 AM

I'm gonna wait before jumping to conclusions as well.
For all we know, the Link/Tetra spirtes could have just been reused for the trailer, and aren't final.

It's interesting to see a WW-looking Hyrule castle though.

#4 TheAvengerLever

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 10:23 AM

ZOMG ITS THE GREAT FLOOD STORY.


LINK IS GONNA DISAPPEAR ON HIS TRAIN AND HYRULE WILL BE FLOODED.

#5 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 10:57 AM

"Link, stop playing with your train set and save us!" "Fuck off, Sages."

Also, perhaps they reused the graphical style because it's just GOOD? The TWW style is like, the most likable and appropriate style for the series I've ever seen, and I've been playing since LA. But I'll totally laugh if it turns out this is the country Link came from in LOZ, named after the non-canon country in the comics. What was it called, Caladar or something?

#6 Fin

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 11:00 AM

Calatia, I think it was?

I hope the theme for this game is the Thomas the Tank Engine music. And Ringo Starr does Link's voice.

#7 SOAP

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 12:32 PM

Personally, I'm pissed off by ST being a PH rehash for other reasons (like the gameplay and graphics being very different to what I'd like from a Zelda game), even if it ends up being on the Child Timeline. But don't you think there's something inherently confusing about that? Sure, TMC/FS/FSA borrowed from TWW's style, but they weren't identical, just based on it. Here we have the same character models and everything, leading people to already assume a connection to PH. Same system + same engine and graphics basically always has meant that before, but here we have a break in the usual "pair" of games per system (a la OoT/MM), due to PH being the pair of a game on another system. So who knows where they're going? Hopefully there will be interviews about this soon, as current Nintendo seems to be okay with talking about the timeline placement of the newest game, usually. Too bad nobody ever asks them about the older ones.


What's so bad about breaking tradition? Especially one as silly as "two-game" per Link? I mean it's not like they haven't broken traditions before. Before TWW, each new Link had debute game, and direct sequel quickly following behind. Also each time they released a new game, besides direct sequels, they set further and further back in the Zelda timeline. Then TWW came out and every game since they've been going fowards, back again, and sideways in the timeline. TWW didn't get it's direct sequel till four other storyline unrelated Zelda titles came out. The Zelda series is starting to break out of it's formulaic pattern.

Edit: I think it's a new Link though. Though it could be TMC Link or TWW Link. With the Multiple timelines it could very well be the same Link as TWW and take place at the same time only in the otherside of the timeline split in a version of Hyrule that was never flooded. Perhaps taking place before or after TP.

Edit Edit: It isn't exactly true taht this forum is void of newew Zelda game discussion. See, Zelda general above. :)

Edited by SOAP, 26 March 2009 - 12:41 PM.


#8 FDL

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 12:43 PM

I hope the theme for this game is the Thomas the Tank Engine music. And Ringo Starr does Link's voice.


Fucking THIS. Anyway, I'm thinking this game looks good. The idea of a train being so integral is strange, but a nice change of pace from horses and boats. Timeline-wise I'm thinking this should be a sequel to PH, maybe giving us an idea of what Tetra and Link's new land is like. But who the hell knows?

#9 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 02:17 PM

Calatia! That was it! I'd love if it turned out Spirit Tracks took place in Calatia!

#10 Showsni

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 03:37 PM

Storyline wise, we don't have all that much to work on yet... Steam trains mean a certain level of technological sophistication; possibly this is some time after PH, with its steam boats.

I found a videotape from when I was younger, the other day. It's nothing but Thomas the Tank Engine episodes, recorded one after the other. (Michael Angelis ones, so I guess they're from when I was four or five.)


#11 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 07:11 PM

SPIRIT Tracks. It's a magic train, so technological level is irrelevant and thus a moot point of discussion.

#12 Average Gamer

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 08:40 PM

Not really story related, but I'm posting this anyway.

Courtesy of ZU:

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#13 Duke Serkol

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 08:42 PM

possibly this is some time after PH, with its steam boats.

I think/hope so too.

SPIRIT Tracks. It's a magic train, so technological level is irrelevant and thus a moot point of discussion.

Yes, Spirit TRACKS indeed: not necessarily spirit locomotive (and it doesn't really look magical to me. I wish it did)

#14 TheAvengerLever

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 09:57 PM

I'm going to laugh if this game proves the SINGLE TIMELINE.

#15 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 10:16 PM

Which is impossible. Which would make Spirit Tracks non-canon. Therefore, we can all go home.

#16 Hero of Slime

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 10:38 PM

I would be shocked if this game proves anything about the timeline. Has any game ever done so without making the timeline more complex?

#17 Erimgard

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 11:57 AM

Pretty sure that it's not just "BOOM MAGIC TRAIN WITH NO TECHNOLOGY".
Why would there be train tracks all over the fucking place if they hadn't really invented trains?

Also, my early observations on the limited knowledge of geography. Nothing too earth-shattering:
http://www.zeldainfo...amp;#entry34287

#18 SOAP

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 01:19 PM

Why is a train so hard to swallow in the Zeldaverse? Zelda games always had their occassional anachronism and yet somehow they always manage to fit in. I wish people would get out of this notion that Hyrule MUST be locked in medieval stasis for all eternity and any deviations are not allowed. I mean seriously, it's not like he's on a monorail.

#19 Erimgard

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 01:21 PM

I don't mind him being on a train at all.
I mind that, based on the teaser, the train is just a land-version of the PH's boat. Even down to them both having a canon. Too repetitive and generic.

Technologically, I have no problems with advancements in the "Zeldaverse"

#20 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 02:37 PM

Pretty sure that it's not just "BOOM MAGIC TRAIN WITH NO TECHNOLOGY".
Why would there be train tracks all over the fucking place if they hadn't really invented trains?


Whenever the tracks change, there are little fairy flutters. Perhaps the train tracks were summoned magically and their presence is part of the plot?

Why is a train so hard to swallow in the Zeldaverse? Zelda games always had their occassional anachronism and yet somehow they always manage to fit in. I wish people would get out of this notion that Hyrule MUST be locked in medieval stasis for all eternity and any deviations are not allowed. I mean seriously, it's not like he's on a monorail.


Ditto, but that's not what people are complaining about.

#21 SOAP

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 02:54 PM

Ditto, but that's not what people are complaining about.


I guess I was mistaken. It is what people are complaining about outside of LA though,

#22 Masamune

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 03:04 PM

I'm going to laugh if this game proves the SINGLE TIMELINE.


Well, given that the Single Timeline is ALREADY proven... I guess they could have Ganondorf show up and say, "Oh. Masa and Steve... those guys who post at LA? Yeah, they were right."

#23 Fin

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 04:38 PM

I'm more interested in seeing how this game will fit in on the triangular timeline.

#24 Duke Serkol

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 06:15 PM

Also, my early observations on the limited knowledge of geography. Nothing too earth-shattering:
http://www.zeldainfo...amp;#entry34287

Nice work... have you considered comparing the map in the trailer with those in Tingle RPG? (In particular the one with the Deku Tree).

#25 Evilsbane

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 03:57 AM

Nice work... have you considered comparing the map in the trailer with those in Tingle RPG? (In particular the one with the Deku Tree).

There's nothing to compare. The map only has a castle and a large tree as reference points.

For the record, it may be worth noting that the map seen in the trailer is only the southwest corner of the overall world - much like PH's map had four quarters.

#26 Duke Serkol

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 09:10 AM

Is it said anywhere in the trailer that is the southwest corner?

#27 Evilsbane

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 01:42 PM

Is it said anywhere in the trailer that is the southwest corner?


If you look at the map (at around 0:35), you'll see worn, torn edges on the left and the bottom, but not the right or top. This indicates that we're looking at the southwesternmost corner of a larger map.

Edited by Evilsbane, 28 March 2009 - 01:46 PM.


#28 Erimgard

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 02:04 PM

Also, my early observations on the limited knowledge of geography. Nothing too earth-shattering:
http://www.zeldainfo...amp;#entry34287

Nice work... have you considered comparing the map in the trailer with those in Tingle RPG? (In particular the one with the Deku Tree).

Yeah, I took a look, but like Evilsbane said...there's not much to use as a reference point. The only landmarks are a castle [which is not in FPTRR] and the Deku Tree. The rest of both maps in that general area is field and forst, but FPTRR of course also has lots of water in that area.

Significantly south of the Deku Tree is where Tingle's house and the first town are. No signs of civilization are shown in the trailer, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

I don't see much to connect the two land masses at this point.

#29 Duke Serkol

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 02:51 PM

If you look at the map (at around 0:35), you'll see worn, torn edges on the left and the bottom, but not the right or top. This indicates that we're looking at the southwesternmost corner of a larger map.

Excellent observation! :)

#30 Evilsbane

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 03:40 PM

Yeah, I took a look, but like Evilsbane said...there's not much to use as a reference point. The only landmarks are a castle [which is not in FPTRR] and the Deku Tree.

Were there not ruins of a castle of some sort in the west of Lon Lon Meadow?

Excellent observation! :)

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Edited by Evilsbane, 28 March 2009 - 03:43 PM.





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