278 replies to this topic

[Ize]

Then the Triforce of Courage should be shattered in the Child Timeline too.

Not really, only the physical ToP was shattered, at that point there would be no actual triforce (as an object) on the child timeline.

That still doesn't work. What happens in the Sacred Realm happens in Hyrule, and vice versa. For example, the emptying of a lake will have an effect in both worlds. How does this work with Two Hyrules and one Sacred Realm? You'd have a flood in one Hyrule, so there'd be some sort of equivalent of a flood in the Sacred Realm. But because there's a Flood in the Sacred Realm, guess what happens to the Hyrule on the other side?

But we only see those changes affecting the other realm in ALttP, when Ganondorf has transformed the sacred realm into a twisted reflection of Hyrule. Ando no, you can't say that the sacred realm has always been a reflection of Hyrule, because we have no recent evidence of that and the only other time we get to see the sacred realm is in OoT, where it all looks like some weird "energy place" and not a reflection fo hyrule. I know that we only see the chamber of the sages, but there was no need to actually make it so weird, they could have made a regular temple.
Most of those things about the sacred realm were stated before the timeline was split, so we have no recent evidence of anything regarding the sacred realms laws.

One thing, I haven't played ALttP in a long while, I can't remember any moment in which you change something in Hyrule and that changes sometihng in the dark realm, I always thought it went only the other way. I'm quite possibly wrong, but it would be nice to know.

And you know, what happens in the sacred realm...stays in the sacred realm.

Sorry, had to do that.

[Sparx401]

Actually, there is evidence that Hyrule affects the Sacred Realm. That piece of evidence is when you have to enter the Swamp Palace. Link needed to open the waterway in the Light World in order for him to gain access the rest of its Dark World equivalent. Sahasrahla's remark on the matter (from the GBA script) makes no indication that it the interactions are a one-way deal:

Link, it is I, Sahasrahla.
Objects in the Light and Dark
Worlds mimic one another.
If the form of a thing changes
in one world, it will change the
shape of its twin in the other.

[SOAP]

That still doesn't work. What happens in the Sacred Realm happens in Hyrule, and vice versa. For example, the emptying of a lake will have an effect in both worlds. How does this work with Two Hyrules and one Sacred Realm? You'd have a flood in one Hyrule, so there'd be some sort of equivalent of a flood in the Sacred Realm. But because there's a Flood in the Sacred Realm, guess what happens to the Hyrule on the other side?

Actually something of an equivalent does happen to Hyrule in TP. Perhaps the equivalent of a flood in Adult Hyrule would be a drought in Child Hyrule, and TP Hyrule looks especially arid.

[MikePetersSucks]

Not really, only the physical ToP was shattered, at that point there would be no actual triforce (as an object) on the child timeline.

That's nonsense. You're basically proposing that the physical form and spiritual essence of the Triforce have been separated in the two timelines, which means the ToC in the Adult Timeline would be powerless and useless, and furthermore shouldn't be able to enter Link. But this is not the case. Therefore, the Triforce of Courage is perfectly divine in both timelines and exist in states that do not reflect their counterpart. Ergo, they are existing independently in two timespaces. There are two Triforces of Courage. With that, your entire premise is bunk.

But we only see those changes affecting the other realm in ALttP, when Ganondorf has transformed the sacred realm into a twisted reflection of Hyrule. Ando no, you can't say that the sacred realm has always been a reflection of Hyrule, because we have no recent evidence of that and the only other time we get to see the sacred realm is in OoT, where it all looks like some weird "energy place" and not a reflection fo hyrule. I know that we only see the chamber of the sages, but there was no need to actually make it so weird, they could have made a regular temple.

Uh...so what? There's areas like that in normal Hyrule too. And according to OOT, the Sacred Realm is a mirror at all times, along with TP implying that the Sacred Realm was part of Hyrule. If anything, all Ganondorf's wish did was twist the reflection, not actually create a twisted reflection.

Most of those things about the sacred realm were stated before the timeline was split, so we have no recent evidence of anything regarding the sacred realms laws.

There's no reason to change them. Especially if the games keep going on like the same thing happened. Plus LTTP is after the timesplit, which means the laws can't have changed.

Actually something of an equivalent does happen to Hyrule in TP. Perhaps the equivalent of a flood in Adult Hyrule would be a drought in Child Hyrule, and TP Hyrule looks especially arid.

No way. There's way too much water in TP Hyrule. The only drought is a result of the interfering Twilight anyway. If there is a counterpart to the Flood, it's probably the incoming, consuming Twilight veil.

[Arturo]

Uh...so what? There's areas like that in normal Hyrule too. And according to OOT, the Sacred Realm is a mirror at all times, along with TP implying that the Sacred Realm was part of Hyrule. If anything, all Ganondorf's wish did was twist the reflection, not actually create a twisted reflection.

No, no, the Sacred Realm is not a mirror of Hyrule, at least not in OoT. It's a mirror of the soul of the one who enters/touches the Triforce, and it's explicitely said that the sacred Realm took a shape similar to Hyrule because of Ganondorf's wish.

[Average Gamer]

No, no, the Sacred Realm is not a mirror of Hyrule, at least not in OoT. It's a mirror of the soul of the one who enters/touches the Triforce, and it's explicitely said that the sacred Realm took a shape similar to Hyrule because of Ganondorf's wish.

In OoT it only says that the Sacred Realm was conquered by Ganondorf/became a Makai due to him entering. He didn't turn it into a reflection of Hyrule. In ALttP the Sacred Realm was already a reflection of Hyrule before Ganon ever touched the Triforce. He didn't make a twisted reflection, he twisted the pre-existing reflection.

Edited by Average Gamer, 09 May 2009 - 05:31 PM.

[Ize]

[quote]That's nonsense. You're basically proposing that the physical form and spiritual essence of the Triforce have been separated in the two timelines, which means the ToC in the Adult Timeline would be powerless and useless, and furthermore shouldn't be able to enter Link. But this is not the case. Therefore, the Triforce of Courage is perfectly divine in both timelines and exist in states that do not reflect their counterpart. Ergo, they are existing independently in two timespaces. There are two Triforces of Courage. With that, your entire premise is bunk.[/quote]

I think you didn't understand. The power of the triforce of courage flows from the physical piece itself. The power we see in TP is just that, the power of the triforce, not the actual object itself. In the adult timeline, the triforce is a physical object, and that's why it's shattered. The triforce still has power in the adult timeline, there's absolutely no reason to say it doesn't have any. There is no evidence that the triforce has a limited amount of power, the triforce and it's power are not separated, the triforce in TP is more like an "echo".

[quote]
There's no reason to change them. Especially if the games keep going on like the same thing happened. Plus LTTP is after the timesplit, which means the laws can't have changed.[/quote

I didn't mean to say that it happened before the timeline was split in the zelda universe, I meant before the people at nintendo came up with the split.

[Average Gamer]

I think you didn't understand. The power of the triforce of courage flows from the physical piece itself. The power we see in TP is just that, the power of the triforce, not the actual object itself.

Oh for fuck's sake. Nintendo actually gives the fans the benefit of the doubt for once, hoping that the Triforce won't have to be named every three seconds for fans to realize what it is, and instead we get this crud.

So, the way I see things just as Ganondorf (child version) was being executed, Ganondorf (adult version) was claiming the triforce of power.

Aonuma said that the execution scene in TP happened years after the Child Timeline ending of OoT. Since we know that Ganondorf touched the Triforce and acquired the ToP on the same day he entered the Sacred Realm (or at least in that year if you're picky) in OoT, the two events couldn't happen at the same time.

Edited by Average Gamer, 09 May 2009 - 09:22 PM.

[SOAP]

I think you didn't understand. The power of the triforce of courage flows from the physical piece itself. The power we see in TP is just that, the power of the triforce, not the actual object itself. In the adult timeline, the triforce is a physical object, and that's why it's shattered. The triforce still has power in the adult timeline, there's absolutely no reason to say it doesn't have any. There is no evidence that the triforce has a limited amount of power, the triforce and it's power are not separated, the triforce in TP is more like an "echo".

I understand what you're trying to say but there's no reason to think it's an echo. There's nothing to suggest such other than the word "Triforce" appears no where in the dialogue (which is odd but doesn't mean anything) and it's never explained how Link and Zelda got their respective pieces nor is it explained in what condition the Triforce is after Ganon's death. Other than that, there hasn't been any indication that we're dealing with anything less than what occured with the Triforce in OoT (three people of destiny, ecah wielding a piece of the Trforce). The only thing that's really odd and may give one pause is how Ganon's Triforce of Power, just fades from his hand when he dies. Did the ToP leave him? Did it seek a new vessel? Did it get transfered to Link or Zelda? If so how come they didn't used the combined pieces to wish for Ganon's evil to be undone a la ALttP's ending? TP's ending raises more questions then it settles.

I don't think we're dealing with an echo effect though I can see why one might think that. Taking TWW in consideration, I always thought it odd that Ganondorf was very careful not to kill Link or Zelda, he just beat them into submission. Was it because they were children or because he'd risk losing that particular peice and would have to start from square one to find it again? Is this what happened to the ToPat the end of TP? If so, it makes for an interesting sequel with a new villain to weild the the ToP for once.

I think you didn't understand. The power of the triforce of courage flows from the physical piece itself. The power we see in TP is just that, the power of the triforce, not the actual object itself.

Oh for fuck's sake. Nintendo actually gives the fans the benefit of the doubt for once, hoping that the Triforce won't have to be named every three seconds for fans to realize what it is, and instead we get this crud.

So, the way I see things just as Ganondorf (child version) was being executed, Ganondorf (adult version) was claiming the triforce of power.

Aonuma said that the execution scene in TP happened years after the Child Timeline ending of OoT. Since we know that Ganondorf touched the Triforce and acquired the ToP on the same day he entered the Sacred Realm (or at least in that year if you're picky) in OoT, the two events couldn't happen at the same time.