278 replies to this topic

[Evilsbane]

Basically I'm asking since I think that FS and FSA might possibly be between OoT and MM, in which FSA depicts Ganon's capture during an assault on Hyrule. If the Sages of TP wanted to execute him, they may have removed him from the Four Sword Seal without realising he had the ToP.

This outlandish theory notwithstanding, please cast your vote since I'm interested in seeing what people think happened in TP's BS.

[Duke Serkol]

There is none (consensus)

[Evilsbane]

There is none (consensus)

A wiseguy, eh? Obviously you vote your personal opinion so that whether there is a consensus becomes apparent. What do you think happened?

[Duke Serkol]

Not trying to be a smartass, but this subject keep being debated very heatedly. That's why I said there is no consensus as far as I can see.

My opinion is that the Sages are presenting the story properly and that Ganondorf did receive the Triforce as we saw it in the video, mysteriously after he was stabbed.

[Raien]

Duke Serkol states the truth; the progression of events from OoT to TP is one massive blank, and wide open to what anyone wants to speculate.

[MikePetersSucks]

IMO, he probably seized it himself like he did in the Adult Timeline. He certainly had the time window for it.

[Showsni]

Possibly some other unbalanced person caused the triforce to split - maybe an ancestor of Zelda or Link touched it, with an unbalaced heart, causing power to spontaneously jump to Ganon? From the sage's POV, it would appear as though he'd got it from nowhere, or the gods, hence divine prank. We know Zelda in OoT planned to obtain the triforce. It could be that in TP she managed to do this, at the same time as the execution... and the rest is history.

[Impossible]

He got it spontaneously when Link split the timeline in OoT

I think this is somewhat poorly worded... If you're actually trying to represent one of the most common views, it should be "He got it spontaneously during the execution scene", which was not when the timeline split (although that doesn't mean there's no connection).

[Raien]

I think Ganondorf got it spontaneously at the point when the timeline split, but it didn't awaken within him until the execution scene.

[CID Farwin]

^That's pretty much what I think

[Viral]

I think Ganondorf got it spontaneously at the point when the timeline split, but it didn't awaken within him until the execution scene.

Ditto.

[Impossible]

I don't know, about that... There's never been anything to indicate that the Triforce does or even could potentially work that way at all. He needed its power sooner, and it would have come to him if he were trying to fight off his captors.

[Evilsbane]

I don't know, about that... There's never been anything to indicate that the Triforce does or even could potentially work that way at all. He needed its power sooner, and it would have come to him if he were trying to fight off his captors.

Link in TP didn't realise he had the ToC until his life was threatened by the Shadow Beast.

[Raien]

Link in TP didn't realise he had the ToC until his life was threatened by the Shadow Beast.

Link in TP didn't even know what the ToC was until Zelda explained it to him.

[Evilsbane]

Link in TP didn't realise he had the ToC until his life was threatened by the Shadow Beast.

Link in TP didn't even know what the ToC was until Zelda explained it to him.

OK, let me rephrase... what should have alerted Ganondorf to the presence of the ToP?

[Raien]

OK, let me rephrase... what should have alerted Ganondorf to the presence of the ToP?

I wasn't disagreeing with you; I just thought that example was kind of funny.

[Evilsbane]

OK, let me rephrase... what should have alerted Ganondorf to the presence of the ToP?

I wasn't disagreeing with you; I just thought that example was kind of funny.

Oh right. Well, you get my point, then - Link in OoT didn't know he got the ToC was either, and he DID know. When a crest goes to its chosen one, there's nothing to alert that chosen one as to what just happened.

I can only imagine how vindicated Ganon must have felt during the execution when he realised he was chosen by the Gods to wield this power.

[Lexxi Aileron]

Link in OoT didn't know he got the ToC

Probably because he was in a magical coma when it happened. Zelda and Ganon certainly realized they got their pieces.

As it stands I see nothing about Ganondorf's scenario that suggests that he or the sages didn't know he had the Triforce of Power. I really can't say whether or not it "awakened" in him prior to the execution- perhaps the fact that he was worthy of it is the divine prank?

[Impossible]

OK, let me rephrase... what should have alerted Ganondorf to the presence of the ToP?

The fact that he NEEDED it earlier to fight off his captors. Nobody could capture him on the Adult Timeline. He would already have been drawing enough into his strength for any power he had to be used. The idea of a dormant Triforce piece is completely baseless. Link is a completely different issue, he gets the ToC in his sleep and has no idea what it is.

I always love how whenever this comes up, Lex will refuse to fill in the gaps in any way that actually results in logical actions from the characters. Actually, it's whenever speculation is necessary no matter what, he won't acknowledge that some speculation could potentially require characters to behave in utterly nonsensical ways.

[Evilsbane]

OK, let me rephrase... what should have alerted Ganondorf to the presence of the ToP?

The fact that he NEEDED it earlier to fight off his captors. Nobody could capture him on the Adult Timeline. He would already have been drawing enough into his strength for any power he had to be used. The idea of a dormant Triforce piece is completely baseless. Link is a completely different issue, he gets the ToC in his sleep and has no idea what it is.

I always love how whenever this comes up, Lex will refuse to fill in the gaps in any way that actually results in logical actions from the characters. Actually, it's whenever speculation is necessary no matter what, he won't acknowledge that some speculation could potentially require characters to behave in utterly nonsensical ways.

Link knows what the ToC is - the whole game arises from his quest to protect all three pieces from Ganondorf. And Ganondorf was caught but not in mortal danger until the execution.

Probably because he was in a magical coma when it happened. Zelda and Ganon certainly realized they got their pieces.

As it stands I see nothing about Ganondorf's scenario that suggests that he or the sages didn't know he had the Triforce of Power. I really can't say whether or not it "awakened" in him prior to the execution- perhaps the fact that he was worthy of it is the divine prank?

Zelda knows she has the ToW, sure - but she's been living in mortal danger for seven years. Besides, her piece bestows wisdom, so it's not surprising that she's more knowledgeable than Link. And Ganon knows he has a piece because he physically took it, remember? It'd be hard NOT for him to know in that situation.

[MikePetersSucks]

Link knows what the ToC is - the whole game arises from his quest to protect all three pieces from Ganondorf. And Ganondorf was caught but not in mortal danger until the execution.

He knows what the Triforce is, but he doesn't know that it can split into three parts. Hell, when he awakens in the Adult Timeline, you perform atleast a couple dungeons under the assumption that Ganon has the full Triforce before the big reveal.

[Impossible]

Ganondorf would have felt that he was in mortal danger and gone to any length to protect himself, just as he went to any length to conquer Hyrule on the adult timeline. The ToP makes his magic much more powerful, and he obviously would have used his magic. Again, where's the evidence that a Triforce piece needs to be awakened first? MPS is right, Link simply doesn't know and he wasn't conscious when he received it.

[Evilsbane]

He knows what the Triforce is, but he doesn't know that it can split into three parts.

Neither does Ganon. Sheik tells us that Ganon wasn't expecting that at ALL. So how would he expect it if he wasn't even IN the Sacred Realm to see the Triforce split?

Again, where's the evidence that a Triforce piece needs to be awakened first?

In TP. Link's ToC activates for the first time in the Twilight Realm. Up until that point, no-one in the Village says anything like 'Hey Link! What's that mark on your hand all about, huh?'. I'm sure if he'd KNOWN he had it, he would've been able to use it before then, but he had no indication (nor indeed, any knowledge of what the Triforce is).

Edited by Evilsbane, 21 January 2009 - 08:32 AM.

[Lexxi Aileron]

Zelda knows she has the ToW, sure - but she's been living in mortal danger for seven years. Besides, her piece bestows wisdom, so it's not surprising that she's more knowledgeable than Link. And Ganon knows he has a piece because he physically took it, remember? It'd be hard NOT for him to know in that situation.

Again, who said Ganon didn't know he had the ToP?

[MikePetersSucks]

Neither does Ganon. Sheik tells us that Ganon wasn't expecting that at ALL. So how would he expect it if he wasn't even IN the Sacred Realm to see the Triforce split?

Ganon was the one who split it, and is described as being left with the one piece. I'm sure he would've figured it out right then and there, he's not stupid.

In TP. Link's ToC activates for the first time in the Twilight Realm. Up until that point, no-one in the Village says anything like 'Hey Link! What's that mark on your hand all about, huh?'. I'm sure if he'd KNOWN he had it, he would've been able to use it before then, but he had no indication (nor indeed, any knowledge of what the Triforce is).

But the mark IS there, so he'd have to be retarded to not know it was there. But again, Link had always had it, and didn't know it's significance. All your points prove is that the piece doesn't need to awaken, but the owner has to realize they have a Triforce piece. It's like saying the book can't awaken until you know how to read it, it's nonsense.

[Evilsbane]

Ganon was the one who split it, and is described as being left with the one piece. I'm sure he would've figured it out right then and there, he's not stupid.

In the AT he is described this way. But in the CT, no-one knows how Ganon got the ToP - probably not even Ganon himself.

But the mark IS there, so he'd have to be retarded to not know it was there. But again, Link had always had it, and didn't know it's significance. All your points prove is that the piece doesn't need to awaken, but the owner has to realize they have a Triforce piece. It's like saying the book can't awaken until you know how to read it, it's nonsense.

No, it's like saying you can't read a book if you don't know it's in your pocket. If it accidentally falls out, or someone tells you it's in your pocket, or you remember putting it there, then you can get it out and read it. If that metaphor makes sense. If not... you started it

[MikePetersSucks]

In the AT he is described this way. But in the CT, no-one knows how Ganon got the ToP - probably not even Ganon himself.

I always figured that Ganon still split the Triforce, then moments later, Link returned and closed the door. I consider all the stuff that happened in the Child Timeline of OOT, like the Well sidequest, to have happened.

No, it's like saying you can't read a book if you don't know it's in your pocket. If it accidentally falls out, or someone tells you it's in your pocket, or you remember putting it there, then you can get it out and read it. If that metaphor makes sense. If not... you started it

The metaphor doesn't work because you're twisting the example. Awakening the Triforce piece isn't the primary purpose of the artifact, and the mere aspect of being needed to awaken is by no means canonical.

[Impossible]

But the mark IS there, so he'd have to be retarded to not know it was there. But again, Link had always had it, and didn't know it's significance. All your points prove is that the piece doesn't need to awaken, but the owner has to realize they have a Triforce piece. It's like saying the book can't awaken until you know how to read it, it's nonsense.

No, it's like saying you can't read a book if you don't know it's in your pocket. If it accidentally falls out, or someone tells you it's in your pocket, or you remember putting it there, then you can get it out and read it. If that metaphor makes sense. If not... you started it

Actually, it's more like if didn't know that you had a book in your pocket, and someone held a gun to your head and the only way to escape was if you had a book to fight him off. Given that the ToP, unlike a book, actually fits that idea completely.

Edited by Impossible, 22 January 2009 - 10:54 PM.

[NM87]

Instead of voting, lets detail each possibility and then explain why it can't work.

At the time he is executed.
During his conquest of Hyrule.
Moment of the Timeline split.

As well as any other possibility one can think of.

[MikePetersSucks]

Haven't we been doing that already?