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#1 Sign of Justice

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 03:05 PM

I posted this over on ZU (zeldauniverse) and it also got posted recently on ZI (zeldainformer) so I thought I'd post it over here too.
http://bszelda.zelda...ideotran1.shtml I find it very interesting that it talks about the SW. It also talks a little bit of the creation. I don't know if you guys think this is canon or not. But I see no reason for it not to be canon.

#2 Impossible

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 10:23 AM

Thank you, this is great. I wasn't aware we were missing KnS stuff. :D It goes over the SW, it's the same as in ALttP. No six years (which only refers to when ALttP happened), and, once more, Ganon never left the Dark World. Interesting that this was in 1997. And that Lex's crappy argument once again fails to hold water. It's very clear here that ALttP's manual was still canon, and the SW still precedes ALttP. Although that's an insanely redundant statement: "ALttP's backstory precedes ALttP". Who would argue that? ...Oh. Another five years later was ALttP GBA, by the way, which is still completely consistent on this.

It also includes something else from ALttP's manual: "Indeed this is the time when the King of Evil, Ganon, was born." This is a quote I've talked about before as a reference to LoZ, and I'd still be interested in confirming that, since I recall it being contested last time it was discussed.

Edit: KnS, BS Zelda, whatever. >_<

Edited by Impossible, 06 January 2009 - 12:12 AM.


#3 Raien

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 11:01 AM

For the record, the "six years" quote was retranslated on Zelda Informer and established that it did not say Ganon took the Triforce six years before KnS.

#4 Lexxi Aileron

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 11:40 AM

Thank you, this is great. I wasn't aware we were missing KnS stuff. :D


Impossible: This isn't from KnS, actually; it's from LoZ BS, the remake of LoZ. The Seal War here is not being presented as a backstory to ALttP, but to LoZ.

Edited by Lexxi Aileron, 05 January 2009 - 11:42 AM.


#5 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 02:09 PM

Lex, those are screenshots are accessible from KnS. It's ALSO called "BS Legend of Zelda." All the BS games were intended to be played as a whole, like the Oracles games.

#6 Sign of Justice

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 04:15 PM

Why would they be released years apart then? Oracles were released on the same day.
@Impossible: This is not KNS/AST. This is BS LoZ which is a remake of LoZ.

Edited by Sign of Justice, 05 January 2009 - 04:15 PM.


#7 Raien

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 04:18 PM

Why would they be released years apart then? Oracles were released on the same day.


BS Zelda and KNS were not released on a traditional cartridge format; they were experimentally released in episodes via television broadcast. It would be impossible to release them in the same way as Oracles.

#8 Showsni

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 04:29 PM

As people have said, this looks like LoZ BS, not KnS; this is the "third quest," if you will. It seems as though it's set after Ganon is sealed, but before ALttP. The obvious problems this would bring up are:
1. How had Ganon escaped?
2. Why is the triforce here?

Possibly these will be made clear in other weeks, particularly week four... It doesn't seem as though it's mentioned anywhere that this is the Triforce of Wisdom. Maybe it's not actually the triforce, but something more like a force gem?


#9 Impossible

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 12:10 AM

Looks like I made a mistake... I'm actually away from home right now and looking at things in a hurry, so I thought it was related to KnS. Nevertheless, it's still interesting for the same reasons. Obviously, it connects the Seal War to LoZ, and that could cement (again) that ALttP was intended as a prequel... But it remains to be seen if the rest of the story is told in KnS, actually linking the games, or if that's it. I haven't gotten around to playing the BS games at all yet, and I didn't know that there was story added to BS Zelda. This might make its status in the canon a point of contention, since nobody really cared before now, but we may be forced to treat it as a legitimate remake - a revised version of the story in light of ALttP, much like other remakes that add story details relating to sequels (Sword of Mana, Metroid Zero Mission). The trident already hinted at this, but now I really want to see if there's any more to be learnt.

Too bad it was Japan-only, so its remake status is somewhat messy... Come on Nintendo, use the VC well for once! No, of course not. -_- That would be far too intelligent. Imagine how people would flock to getting to play these "lost" Zelda games.

#10 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 03:11 PM

As people have said, this looks like LoZ BS, not KnS; this is the "third quest," if you will. It seems as though it's set after Ganon is sealed, but before ALttP. The obvious problems this would bring up are:
1. How had Ganon escaped?
2. Why is the triforce here?


The character you're playing is experiencing a temporary, dreamlike world weaved by a fortune teller, that's pretty much told at the start.

And KnS also implies it's the same hero, and the past game was a sort of "awaken to your calling" training experience.

#11 Gibdo Master

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 09:13 PM

KnS?

#12 Raien

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 07:05 AM

KnS?


The second BS Zelda game, based upon ALttP.

#13 Showsni

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 06:16 PM

Variously KnS, AST, Kodai no Sekiban or Ancient Stone Tablets. Is it the second BS Zelda game, or the third?

#14 Raien

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 06:22 PM

Variously KnS, AST, Kodai no Sekiban or Ancient Stone Tablets. Is it the second BS Zelda game, or the third?


There are only two BS Zelda games, so this would be the second.

#15 Showsni

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 06:56 PM

Well, there's a BS version of ALttP. Basically just ALttP released on the BS, with no changes. It seems that the broadcast date for it is unknown, though.

#16 Arturo

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 06:03 AM

And it's name seems to be Inishie no Sekiban, according to what Serkol said.

#17 Viral

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 11:40 PM

Great find Sign. Definately going to have to look into this more, I havn't really had any discussions about it at ZU.

#18 Impossible

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 07:05 PM

The character you're playing is experiencing a temporary, dreamlike world weaved by a fortune teller, that's pretty much told at the start.

And KnS also implies it's the same hero, and the past game was a sort of "awaken to your calling" training experience.


I somehow seem to be completely unaware of this. Is what you're saying that BS LoZ is basically a prelude to KnS that never actually happened? Seems like it was obviously a retcon made by KnS... But it makes this backstory very relevant to KnS. Hell, it makes it sound like KnS was planned from the start. And it means that I WAS right (if inadvertently) that this is all related to ALttP and KnS, not LoZ. This is the missing part of KnS's BS.

Edited by Impossible, 10 January 2009 - 07:10 PM.


#19 Duke Serkol

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 08:22 PM

That's just a possible interpretation, not canon facts (not even BS-X canon, if you will).

I think MPS is referring mostly to my theory that the Hero of Light is the very same in both games... that much could be a fact, seeing as the mascot you play with represents you, the player, and the player shouldn't become a completely different and separate person between games ;)

As for the idea that the player is "experiencing a temporary, dreamlike world weaved by a fortune teller"... there are some things that could be taken as indications of that. Both games start in a fortune teller's hut (though BS LoZ's has some of Ganon's minions hiding behind a curtain until the player departs... I dunno why. Maybe the fortune teller is sending Ganon someone who can gather the Triforce for him?) and in BS LoZ the old man doesn't say, when time is almost up, that you will soon leave that world, rather that it soon will disappear/vanish. Which IS kinda weird.
I didn't really see anything indicating that the first game only serves as training, though.

#20 Raien

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 06:53 AM

Wasn't there a quote in KnS saying that the Hero of Light would appear centuries later (i.e. BS LoZ)? I remember it from previous discussions of these games.

#21 Duke Serkol

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 09:36 AM

No, that was speculation by me, based on what I mentioned in the previous post (the starring character being the player's avatar). Possibly ill-placed speculation that got confused with facts (my bad ^^")

#22 Erimgard

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 02:09 PM

Obviously, it connects the Seal War to LoZ, and that could cement (again) that ALttP was intended as a prequel...

?
It proves that the Seal War prequels LoZ, but not that aLttP does.

#23 Arturo

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 06:27 PM

One would have to twist ALttP too much to get LoZ between the game and its backstory. But then again, twisting ALttP seems to be some sport for certain people...

I'd personally say it proves LoZ irrelevancy to timeline: by giving it the same backstory as ALttP has they just said both ALttP and LoZ are retellings of the exact same story

#24 Impossible

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 07:30 PM

Unless there are more scenes further in BS Zelda that continue the story. Who starts a story without finishing it?

Also, there's clear continuity between the events of ALttP's backstory and ALttP itself. So if all these events are part of LoZ's backstory, then so is ALttP, which is what I'd like to know about for sure. I think this story is here in order to give Ganon's backstory due to the fact that he's in LoZ as well, which is consistent with the original implication of ALttP's manual: that the story it told was the backstory of LoZ's Ganon, meaning that LoZ would come later. But if BS LoZ continues to reference ALttP, we may have something interesting here.

Edited by Impossible, 12 January 2009 - 07:33 PM.


#25 Raien

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 07:36 PM

Why are people looking so deeply at an obvious copy/paste job? LoZ BS uses ALttP's back story because it provides an origin for the characters, as opposed to just saying "Here's the villain. Here's what you have to do to kill him".

But then again, I don't see why people consider the BS games canon; the fact that an avatar from the real world replaces the lead character should be enough to set off alarm bells in people's minds. Maybe it's just because this is Zelda Theorising; if Marvel comics released a one-shot involving someone from the real world appearing and replacing Peter Parker as Spider-man, I seriously doubt people would be considering it in the canon. You can only go so far into absurdity...

Edited by Raien, 12 January 2009 - 07:46 PM.


#26 Duke Serkol

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 10:02 PM

Unless there are more scenes further in BS Zelda that continue the story. Who starts a story without finishing it?

Each week of AST had the same images shown while it was loading (to serve as introduction) but with different voice acting to accompany them.

Therefore yes, I too thought that may be possible, that the first week started off telling the backstory of ALttP and later ones would give more insight. Unfortunately, we do not have recording of those intro sequences, only the first one and then gameplay of later weeks (without intro sequences) :(

#27 Lexxi Aileron

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 11:45 AM

LoZ BS uses ALttP's back story because it provides an origin for the characters, as opposed to just saying "Here's the villain. Here's what you have to do to kill him".


I find it somewhat ironic that it would use the backstory for ALttP as supplying Ganon's background while simultaneously completely ignoring the description of Ganon's invasion in LoZ itself, the game it is a remake of.

It's not a matter of us considering the game itself as canon; it's a matter of looking at the game as a window into the thinking surrounding the game it derives from.

#28 Raien

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 12:24 PM

It's not a matter of us considering the game itself as canon; it's a matter of looking at the game as a window into the thinking surrounding the game it derives from.


If we treat the BS games as serious reflections of the canon, then we miss the point of why the games themselves are not canon. Non-canon stories exist as avenues for writers to exploit their creative freedom, offering alternative interpretations of the canon and/or questioning/parodying the nature of the canon. It is only because the BS games are not windows into the canon that we have already determined that they are not canon.

Edited by Raien, 13 January 2009 - 12:40 PM.


#29 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 01:54 PM

This is, of course, ignoring that the creators seem to think KnS is a true Zelda game, and thus canon.

#30 Raien

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 02:12 PM

This is, of course, ignoring that the creators seem to think KnS is a true Zelda game, and thus canon.


They do? Where have the creators said they think KnS is a true Zelda game?




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