139 replies to this topic

[Lexxi Aileron]

I know this probably doesn't affect what most of you think, but I personally was excited to see the story ideas set back in 1998 reappear in a developer interview today. The direct quote from the interview is shown below:

"Each of the races has a character fated to become one of the sages later on. We named them after towns in The Adventure of Link so it would appear that the towns had been named after them. (In the world of Zelda, the events of Ocarina of Time occur before the events of The Adventure of Link)."

http://i34.tinypic.com/55jqmv.jpg

[NM87]

Of course the events of OOT occur before AOL. The towns were named after the one person from each of the races who would become sages later on. So he could be referring to the first part of OOT before the split. Or he is saying that AOL occurs on the timeline which includes the second half of OOT.

CHOOSE YOUR DESTINY.

[jacensolo06]

NM87, all this really says is that, at the time OoT was made, the other games came after the Adult ending. But we pretty much already knew that.

It is pretty cool to see AoL mentioned these days.

[Lexxi Aileron]

Yeah, this proves nothing new, it's just nice to see that these ideas are still in circulation and that Nintendo hasn't totally forgotten them.

[Impossible]

Congrats Lex, you've proved that something that was in an interview 10 years ago was in the minds of the developers 10 years ago. Yes, in fact, reality does not change, something that was the case in 1998 will ALWAYS have been the case in 1998. I do understand that your concepts of time, reality and consistency are a little different, though, so I forgive you. (And I do realise that this interview is new.)

What's sad is that I read this a couple of days ago and knew someone would bring it up here. There are a couple of legitimate points raised by it, though. Is the part in brackets an editor's addition, or Aonuma's comment? And just how DOES Aonuma currently perceive the first four Zelda games in the timeline? Is it really something they've gone back to recently, with the huge changes in the timeline?

Edited by Impossible, 22 November 2008 - 05:33 PM.

[Lexxi Aileron]

I do understand that your concepts of time, reality and consistency are a little different, though, so I forgive you.

Is there a reason for the talking-down, or did you not read that I already acknowledged that the interview has no new significance and never acknowledged otherwise?

The only reason this is worth posting is it's the only comment related to the timeline in the past year. With a new Zelda in the works and no news on it so far, this is as close as we get to an idea of what they have in mind right now. Even so, we don't know if this comment is even related to the next game, it just happens to have come up again after 10 years.

Edited by Lexxi Aileron, 22 November 2008 - 07:20 PM.

[wring]

The way they phrased it, they made it sound like Adventures of Link happens on the Adult Timeline. They said the towns were named after the Sages, you could say that the Sage's awakened on the Child Timeline as well, but we don't really have evidence to support this claim ofcourse, we can't deny the claim either. But the way the person said it really implied that the Sage's awakened in Ocarina of Time, and then the towns were named after them. He didn't reference any events outside of Ocarina of Time, which he would've done if the Sages awakened twice once on each timeline. He implied that the sages awakening in Ocarina of Time, and the naming of the towns were directly connected. I gues you could say that Link told Zelda the names of the would be sages, and then the towns were named after that, and that is what connects the two events together.

[Lexxi Aileron]

Well, if you go purely by the parenthesis, AoL happens after "the events of OoT" which implies Adult timeline.

[MikePetersSucks]

Not like it matters. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess seemed to retcon the shit out of that.

[Lexxi Aileron]

I personally disagree; TP and TWW only really made it impossible for ALttP to be a direct sequel to OoT.

[spunky-monkey]

I do understand that your concepts of time, reality and consistency are a little different, though, so I forgive you.

Is there a reason for the talking-down, or did you not read that I already acknowledged that the interview has no new significance and never acknowledged otherwise?

No, I'm fairly confident he's not speaking about you negatively; you've merely revealed to us something that has been common-knowledge in the community for quite sometime now... I suppose you didn't raise a legitimate question or phrase the information speculatively enough to cover yourself.

Not trying to patronise you, but if I were to boldy state the obvious now (e.g. Link's the chosen hero) you can guarantee some guy would bite me on the arse for that, yet I'd have only myself to blame.

[Lexxi Aileron]

I guess I misinterpreted him saying "I know your concepts of time are different" as him saying "you're a dumbass."

Wait, I still don't think I misinterpreted him. -.-

Edited by Lexxi Aileron, 24 November 2008 - 02:39 PM.

[Hana-Nezumi]

Wait, so Aonuma can directly state "the events of Ocarina of Time occur before the events of The Adventure of Link" and people still aren't convinced?

[Impossible]

Nobody ever claimed that AoL occurs before OoT.

And since we don't know the circumstances of the interview, we can't say that Aonuma really did "directly state" anything; it was an addendum in parentheses.

[Showsni]

Wait, so Aonuma can directly state "the events of Ocarina of Time occur before the events of The Adventure of Link" and people still aren't convinced?

Creator quotes are noncanon sources, right?

[spunky-monkey]

Wait, so Aonuma can directly state "the events of Ocarina of Time occur before the events of The Adventure of Link" and people still aren't convinced?

While I retain mutual respect for the man, Eiji Aonuma wasn't even involved with the development of Adventure of Link, so why even bother to credit him? This is especially true once you reconsider that he publicly admitted to gamers how much he hated the NES Zelda games.

Let's just say *for arguments sake* we consulted designer/director Takashi Tezuka for his say on the chronology of the Zelda series; if he were to at any moment confess that he absolutely loathes the Capcom games, don't you think that would effectively negate his entire opinion and creditability on said topic?

If Eiji expresses his sincere dislike for a game then I'm astonished he was even referenced by the fan community as a reputable source of information at this point. "WTF" springs to mind.

[wring]

Nobody ever claimed that AoL occurs before OoT.

And since we don't know the circumstances of the interview, we can't say that Aonuma really did "directly state" anything; it was an addendum in parentheses.

He just said it right before the parentheses. He clearly states the towns are named AFTER the sages. That means that Adventures of Link is after Ocarina of Time, and implies the adult timeline, very heavily. Since the Sages arn't there in the Child Timeline, so it'd be difficult to imagine the towns being named after them.

Edit: Is there any other canon info in the article?

Edited by wring, 25 November 2008 - 03:58 PM.

[Lexxi Aileron]

While I retain mutual respect for the man, Eiji Aonuma wasn't even involved with the development of Adventure of Link, so why even bother to credit him?

Because his statement is about Ocarina of Time, a game he did work on, and its relationship to Adventure of Link.

If Eiji expresses his sincere dislike for a game then I'm astonished he was even referenced by the fan community as a reputable source of information at this point. "WTF" springs to mind.

This sounds like a generic "I don't want to believe this so I'll find bulls*** reasons to discredit it" argument. Just saying.

Edited by Lexxi Aileron, 25 November 2008 - 06:58 PM.

[Arturo]

And this is how Aonuma personally confirms me that there's no unified timeline, just a few different timelines, completely unrelated with each other.

Edited by Arturo, 25 November 2008 - 07:19 PM.

[Raien]

I think most of you are missing the most important thing about the statement that AoL follows OoT in the timeline; namely the fact that it was in brackets. In interviews, brackets contain information that the interviewers added after the interview has taken place. Whatever is in those brackets was not said by Aonuma.

This means that Aonuma only referred to the fact that Adult OoT was originally intended to take place before AoL (something we already knew from other developer statements). It does not mean that Adult OoT still takes place before AoL today, after the creation of TWW and TP.

[wring]

I think most of you are missing the most important thing about the statement that AoL follows OoT in the timeline; namely the fact that it was in brackets. In interviews, brackets contain information that the interviewers added after the interview has taken place. Whatever is in those brackets was not said by Aonuma.

This means that Aonuma only referred to the fact that Adult OoT was originally intended to take place before AoL (something we already knew from other developer statements). It does not mean that Adult OoT still takes place before AoL today, after the creation of TWW and TP.

I don't think that kind of thing changes. Atleast not very often. So its more likely then not that if that's what they intended when they made the game, its still the same today.

[Raien]

I don't think that kind of thing changes. Atleast not very often. So its more likely then not that if that's what they intended when they made the game, its still the same today.

It changes when new games make the aforementioned circumstances practically impossible. TWW floods Hyrule and the kingdom becomes a memory; who's going to know the names of the OoT Sages and name towns after them?

The fact is that what Aonuma said was purely in the context of OoT's development; he isn't making a statement about the timeline and the subsequent brackets were added in by Nintendo Power's writers. There is nothing in the interview that implies Aonuma was reconfirming an old timeline placement.

[wring]

I don't think that kind of thing changes. Atleast not very often. So its more likely then not that if that's what they intended when they made the game, its still the same today.

It changes when new games make the aforementioned circumstances practically impossible. TWW floods Hyrule and the kingdom becomes a memory; who's going to know the names of the OoT Sages and name towns after them?

The fact is that what Aonuma said was purely in the context of OoT's development; he isn't making a statement about the timeline and the subsequent brackets were added in by Nintendo Power's writers. There is nothing in the interview that implies Aonuma was reconfirming an old timeline placement.

Not entirely true. There is still the legend about the Hero of Time. It could be that the sage's names were remember in legend aswell. Then the islands were reconnected over centuries reforming Hyrule, and creating a giant landmass that we see in Adventures of Link. Then people went up there and built cities on the new land, and named them after the Sages that were passed down in legends. We don't even know if anybody knew who the sages were, all we know is they knew their names.
Ok I'm making new timelines to fit this new piece of info.

Adult MC-OoT-WW/PH-FS/FSA-LoZ/AoL-OoX-ALTTP/LA
Child MC-OoT/MM-TP
Explanation: I dunno, this timeline looked better in my head... The Master Sword gets lost in Wind Waker, and a new one appears in OoX, which is then the one used in A Link to the Past. I thought it'd be a good way to explain the Master Sword being lost at the end of Wind Waker. And none of the games inbetween mention the sword! Basically, I baised this timeline off of the Master Sword.

Adult MC-OoT-WW/PH-LoZ/AoL
Child MC-OoT/MM-TP-FS/FSA-ALTTP/LA-OoX
Explanation: On the Child Timeline, Ganondorf gets his trident, and gets sealed in time for Alttp, and then revived in OoX. LoZ and AoL happen on the adult timeline on the new land of Hyrule formed. No Master Sword in those two games because it was lost in Wind Waker and no trident because he didn't obtain one on that timeline.

[Hana-Nezumi]

I think most of you are missing the most important thing about the statement that AoL follows OoT in the timeline; namely the fact that it was in brackets. In interviews, brackets contain information that the interviewers added after the interview has taken place. Whatever is in those brackets was not said by Aonuma.

Maybe square brackets, but I've never seen parentheses used for editor comments.

Edited by enchantedtoast, 25 November 2008 - 09:55 PM.

[Raien]

Maybe square brackets, but I've never seen parentheses used for editor comments.

I see square brackets used when the editor replaces an interviewee's words (for example, the word "He" might get replaced with a person's name), but I see round brackets used when the editor adds his own information. Since Aonuma is clearly not talking about the timeline in his comments, the editor has clarified the relationship between OoT and AoL in his own words.

That said, I have never seen an interviewee's words surrounded by parenthesis.

Then the islands were reconnected over centuries reforming Hyrule, and creating a giant landmass that we see in Adventures of Link. Then people went up there and built cities on the new land, and named them after the Sages that were passed down in legends.

After lots and lots of debating on the subject, everyone except Lex will tell you that the idea of the people reforming Hyrule on the Deku Tree's forest island is not only farfetched but totally contradictory to the message in TWW. The King of Hyrule's wish was to destroy the kingdom so that the people could start afresh on a new land disconnected from the traditions of the past, and that is what the players were left with. To bring back Hyrule would be a complete reversal of that message, making the King's wish ultimately irrelevant.

[Lexxi Aileron]

The King of Hyrule's wish was to destroy the kingdom so that the people could start afresh on a new land disconnected from the traditions of the past

I'm sorry, Raian, but your interpretation of that scene, even the interpretation of all of LA, does not invalidate all other interpretations of that scene. Moreover, if the new land was truly disconnected from the past, what would it base itself on at all? Clearly the people of the flood maintained some connections to Hyrule, as the sage traditions survived in a less explicit sense and worship of the gods continued. Real historical "reborn" civilizations never "disconnect" from the past. Even the ancient Jews, whose primary legacy was found in distinguishing themselves from the pagan cultures around them, drew many of their understandings, including for example their creation myth, flood myth, and so on, from preexisting cultures. Apply this to a Hyrule template and a new Hyrule would just be a "progressed" version of the first. Besides, there are enough differences between the 2D games and the 3D ones.

As for your comments about the bit in parenthesis: I don't credit them to Aonuma at all. It does intrigue me that he sees fit to bring up this particular tidbit among others given that we currently await a new Wii Zelda, but Aonuma clearly isn't trying to dictate the timeline to us here. That's not how the question was phrased; he has no reason to answer it that way.

Edited by Lexxi Aileron, 26 November 2008 - 01:04 AM.

[Raien]

I'm sorry, Raian, but your interpretation of that scene, even the interpretation of all of LA, does not invalidate all other interpretations of that scene.

Hence, I said, "Everyone except Lex agrees", because it is true that you are the only person on this forum who believes that the people start a new Hyrule after TWW.

Moreover, if the new land was truly disconnected from the past, what would it base itself on at all?

The island societies.

[Lexxi Aileron]

The island societies.

Who based their societies upon WHAT, pray tell?

[Arturo]

Ergo Turks are the Roman Empire. Fantastic, Lex.

[Impossible]

Raian said everything I could possible have wanted to express on this subject; I'm not even sure what I can post now. (Ed: Lex is wrong.)

Edited by Impossible, 26 November 2008 - 12:30 PM.