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Let's talk about The Minish Cap


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Poll: The Minish Cap (21 member(s) have cast votes)

Where does TMC go in the Timeline?

  1. Before OoT (12 votes [57.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.14%

  2. After TWW (3 votes [14.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

  3. After TP (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. Some other place, because I'm crazy (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. I don't know, what are you asking me for? (3 votes [14.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

  6. THE TIMELINE IS A LIE (3 votes [14.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

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#211 CID Farwin

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 05:09 PM

I never said it has to be, it's just a golden triangle in a zelda game called 'force.' And it sorta does with a theory I'm starting to think about.

#212 Raien

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 05:10 PM

Just in case my last post got missed at the end of the previous page,

No, what I'm saying is that they're not three different things, because the Japanese calls them all the same thing.


So if it was called "power", does that make it impossible for there to be different types of power? Or different meanings for which the word "power" is used?

The word "Force" has three different meanings depending on the context in which you place it. One meaning is what NOA translated as life force. One meaning is what NOA translated as force gems (the physical embodiment of life force). One meaning is what NOA translated as Light Force (a specific powerful force gem). In TMC, the meaning that "force" represents is Light Force.

#213 CID Farwin

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 05:19 PM

But does the distinction come from the context, or that NoA translated it three different ways?

Are Light Force and Life force so different? I haven't played PH so I wouldn't know yet.

Edited by CID Farwin, 12 April 2008 - 05:21 PM.


#214 Hero of Legend

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 05:28 PM

Are Light Force and Life force so different? I haven't played PH so I wouldn't know yet.

No. Force can be crystallized in a number of ways: The Sands of Hours and Force Gems in PH, Force Gems in FSA, and the Light Force and Elements in TMC. In PH, the Force is the Life Force of every living creature; Tetra is said to possess more Force than what is usual for a human, while demigods and demons like the Ocean King and Bellum are essentially made of the stuff.

I never said it has to be, it's just a golden triangle in a zelda game called 'force.' And it sorta does with a theory I'm starting to think about.

That's cool. I'm fairly certain Nintendo will continue with the Force story - even TP has a shade of it - so we'll see where it goes.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 12 April 2008 - 05:40 PM.


#215 Raien

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 05:48 PM

Even though the Light Force and other Force Gems are made of the same energy, the Light Force has a special power and significance to TMC's story that distinguishes it from other force gems or life force. Even if the name and base entity doesn't change, the context does because of the Light Force's special signifiance.

Edited by jhurvid, 12 April 2008 - 05:48 PM.


#216 LionHarted

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 09:17 PM

The Light Force is significant since it was the one gifted to humans for their use by the Minish, and then passed down through the royal family.

#217 Impossible

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 09:39 PM

It's implied that the light force was invoked. It's not implied that the use of the light force also results in its loss, which seems blatantly false. Zelda possesses a large amount of "force" in both TMC and PH. The Japanese version doesn't distinguish between the two. Because Zelda's force was a gift from the Minish, that has to precede PH. And TMC is clearly in the same Hyrule as its backstory.


The distinction between the Light Force and Force Gems in the Japanese games is created by the context in which the word "Force" is used. In TMC, "Force" has only one meaning, and that is the Light Force. In FSA, "Force" has only one meaning, and that is the Force Gems. Thus, when "Force" is used in FSA, we can deduce it is not referring to the Light Force, and vice versa.


That's not my point. Light force and life force are NOT the same thing, I'm certainly not claiming that. What I'm observing is this:

The light force = Force, and life force = Force, hence light force is made of life force.
All light force may be life force, but the inverse is not at all true, as most life force is not light force. The light force is a special power.

The argument is not that ALttP refers to two Ganons; it is that ALttP does NOT refer to the Ganon from the IW.


LOL :lol:

I'm so glad you've taken to trying to understand creator intent, just as I explained. Wait, no...

Edited by Impossible, 12 April 2008 - 09:40 PM.


#218 Showsni

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 04:37 PM

Stay on topic. I'm splitting the IW/ALttP stuff.

So, whilst we're on the subject, does the triforce have a connection with life or light force? Is the triforce an embodiment of the goddesses' life forces?


#219 Jumbie

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 10:17 PM

So, whilst we're on the subject, does the triforce have a connection with life or light force? Is the triforce an embodiment of the goddesses' life forces?

I don't think the Force and the Triforce could be connected. I also highly doubt the Goddesses have life force. While we're told in various games that the Triforce is the embodiment of the essence and power of the Goddesses, those are very different from life force.

Is that apostrophe right?

Hehe, it is. The question is whether another S should be added after it...;)

#220 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 11:05 PM

I don't think the Force and the Triforce could be connected. I also highly doubt the Goddesses have life force. While we're told in various games that the Triforce is the embodiment of the essence and power of the Goddesses, those are very different from life force.


Or maybe the Goddesses simply have infinite Life Force, and the Triforce is an infinitely powerful trio of Force Gems "programmed" with different rules? :D

#221 Hero of Legend

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 04:21 AM

I also highly doubt the Goddesses have life force.

"My name is Faron. I am one of the spirits of light who dwell in Hyrule. I use the life force of the gods to protect this forest."

It's different in our (EU) version though... So better get to work on that one, huh?

Edited by Hero of Legend, 14 April 2008 - 07:42 AM.


#222 Malu CLBS

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 12:35 PM

I also highly doubt the Goddesses have life force.

"My name is Faron. I am one of the spirits of light who dwell in Hyrule. I use the life force of the gods to protect this forest."

It's different in our (EU) version though... So better get to work on that one, huh?

I just checked the Japanese version, and it doesn't use the "Force" term. Instead, it says "神々の命", which would be "Life of the gods". Again, a NOA mistranslation leading us to conclusions that have no actual basis. :blink:

#223 Jumbie

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 01:08 PM

"My name is Faron. I am one of the spirits of light who dwell in Hyrule. I use the life force of the gods to protect this forest."

It's different in our (EU) version though... So better get to work on that one, huh?

I just checked the Japanese version, and it doesn't use the "Force" term. Instead, it says "神々の命", which would be "Life of the gods". Again, a NOA mistranslation leading us to conclusions that have no actual basis. :blink:

Actually, 命 does not always mean "life", but can also mean "command / order".
Let's see how the European version goes...

My name is Faron. I am one of the spirits of light who dwell in Hyrule. By the order of the gods, I protect this forest.

Heh, NoE rules! ...Well, a little bit.

#224 FDL

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 03:14 PM

I'm pretty sure the "life force" translation is the only in the first release of the game. As an impulse buyer I have both the GC and Wii versions and only the Wii version has that translation.

#225 Raien

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 03:50 PM

I'm pretty sure the "life force" translation is the only in the first release of the game. As an impulse buyer I have both the GC and Wii versions and only the Wii version has that translation.


That's right. When bugs were being fixed in the Wii version of Twilight Princess, NOA also took the opportunity to fix the script. The Gamecube release and all versions of PAL Twilight Princess were the fixed game.

#226 Malu CLBS

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 07:35 PM

That makes a lot more sense, Jumbie, considering the grammar, which I didn't include. Now I know more Japanese vocabulary. :lol:




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