63 replies to this topic

[Gibdo Master]

I wouldn't mind a Zelda that took place in an alien environment. Just set it up as an alternate dimension and there you go. I don't mean futuristic, to be clear. Just environments and enemies that have the art style of the Prime games.

Classic Hyrule would be there too. They could even have it so that certain weapons and items can only work in one world or the other.

[Kairu Hakubi]

I think the point you guys are missing is that while it should be obvious that randomly jamming sci-fi into a fantasy series is a terrible idea, and can easily ruin stuff, Zelda is special. If ANYBODY can do it properly and make it awesome, Zelda games can. They have an established cool unique fantasy universe that already deals with anachronistic elements quite well. As long as the 'futuristic' setting was still sufficiently magical/oldtimey/bizarre, it'd be fine. Like that time Mario went to the moon.. but I digress.

[Nameless_Joe]

Link went to the moon before Mario!

A quest in the Twilight Realm could satisfy four desires of many gamers: 1) Midna's return. 2) A sci-fi element. 3) A spiritual successor to Majora's Mask. 4) More thoroughly fleshing out the Twililght Realm. It wouldn't have to be exactly like it was in TP; it could be restored from its corrupted state in that game.


Edit: A slightly more advanced culture in Hyrule could also work, a steam era would be fun. After all, many items are not strictly from the medieval era. OoX had minecarts, which are from a later period. TWW had telescopes, also from much later. Many other examples, but I can't think of them at the moment.

Edited by Nameless_Joe, 17 February 2008 - 06:19 PM.

[Showsni]

Neon lit jukeboxes at a bowling alley? Steamships? A Virtual Reality game?

[CID Farwin]

Yes, Zelda is full of ana-whatzits, so I really wouldn't mind too much if they did something like that, but only within the boundaries that have already been set. I mean, they've already had an alien abduction!

What I'm opposed to is the total overhaul that people are suggesting. The cyberpunk stuff and link with a skateboard/motorcycle. It's just...UGH! *shivers*

And since Jumbie brought it up, the Twilight realm in TP was one thing that I really hated. Example: I'm going along playing Zelda and I come up on a wall that looks like a circuit board and I get a giant WTPF Now that I've been able to think about it and find out what it was that they were ripping off. I can feel more comfortable, and even laugh at how good a job they did. I think it probably wouldn't bee so awkward if they hadn't made Hyrule look like Middle-Earth style high fantasy-type world. But then again, maybe that's what they intended...I don't know.
[/rant]

But yes, if anyone is going to pull it off, it would be Zelda because, as with the Twilight Realm, they've shown that they can pull it off and still be a great fantasy game.

Edited by CID Farwin, 18 February 2008 - 04:45 PM.

[D~N]

In response to that last sentence, Farwin..I was just wondering what exactly is so technologically advanced about the twilight realm? Why do people keep citing it as an example of another anachronism? And why don't I remember something this important about the Twilight realm?! So many questions

[Raien]

From what I've read, I think CID Farwin has a very specific view of what he expects from a Zelda game, and if any part of a game infringes on that expectation, Farwin shows immediate dislike. But what I think most people can agree on is that The Legend of Zelda epitomises traditional heroic fantasy in video gaming, and any large movements into science fiction would not be appreciated by the fans.

[SnowsilverKat]

I think the reason people equate the Twilight Realm with technology is that the darkness/light patterns resemble computer circuit boards. It gives it a very scifi TRON-like vibe, a very angular, inorganic feeling. I'm guessing a lot of it was to sharply contrast Twilight with the world of Light. Also, things like the floating platforms in the Twilight Palace and Zant's hologram-like sentinels give one the feeling that Twilight has some kind of technological advancements.

[CID Farwin]

SnowsilverKat, on Feb 20 2008, 01:05 PM, said:

I think the reason people equate the Twilight Realm with technology is that the darkness/light patterns resemble computer circuit boards. It gives it a very scifi TRON-like vibe, a very angular, inorganic feeling. I'm guessing a lot of it was to sharply contrast Twilight with the world of Light. Also, things like the floating platforms in the Twilight Palace and Zant's hologram-like sentinels give one the feeling that Twilight has some kind of technological advancements.

Quite.

jhurvid, on Feb 20 2008, 11:23 AM, said:

From what I've read, I think CID Farwin has a very specific view of what he expects from a Zelda game, and if any part of a game infringes on that expectation, Farwin shows immediate dislike.

Given what I've posted, I don't blame you for that. Actually, come to think of it, that's exactly true. Except that I don't have some sort of preconceived idea of what Zelda is, It's really just more...a feeling. TP didn't 'feel' anything like Zelda until I was halfway through the second dungeon, and that turned me off way too much.

Quote

But what I think most people can agree on is that The Legend of Zelda epitomises traditional heroic fantasy in video gaming, and any large movements into science fiction would not be appreciated by the fans.

Thank you. *bows*

[Nameless_Joe]

Showsni, on Feb 18 2008, 12:53 PM, said:

Neon lit jukeboxes at a bowling alley? Steamships? A Virtual Reality game?

Yeah, all those things. (and others) R2-D2, coffee, tea, Tingle Tuner, etc.

CID Farwin, on Feb 18 2008, 05:39 PM, said:

Yes, Zelda is full of ana-whatzits, so I really wouldn't mind too much if they did something like that, but only within the boundaries that have already been set. I mean, they've already had an alien abduction!

What I'm opposed to is the total overhaul that people are suggesting. The cyberpunk stuff and link with a skateboard/motorcycle. It's just...UGH! *shivers*

My sentiments exactly.

[Runty Grunty]

So my steampunk idea is still being debated, huh? Cool.

Just to add to discussion, I had another idea. Remember how Square got together with Mario back in the 90's and made Super Mario RPG? What if something similar were done and a Zelda RPG were made? Now, I know you're thinking Zelda's already an RPG title, but I was thinking more in the vein of Final Fantasy.

If anything, it'd be a neat concept. You could still keep Link as a silent protagonist, like Crono was in Chrono Trigger (I love that game), but other characters would join Link to save the kingdom. Maybe even Zelda would have to be a regular character to his party, acting as your party's mage or cleric of sorts. Of course you'd need other party members, but I'm not looking into that right now. Just the initial concept.

Comment please.

[TheAvengerLever]

That WOULD be fun.


Though who would be in that lineup?

[CID Farwin]

Runty Grunty, on Feb 26 2008, 11:32 AM, said:

Just to add to discussion, I had another idea. Remember how Square got together with Mario back in the 90's and made Super Mario RPG? What if something similar were done and a Zelda RPG were made? Now, I know you're thinking Zelda's already an RPG title, but I was thinking more in the vein of Final Fantasy.

If anything, it'd be a neat concept. You could still keep Link as a silent protagonist, like Crono was in Chrono Trigger (I love that game), but other characters would join Link to save the kingdom. Maybe even Zelda would have to be a regular character to his party, acting as your party's mage or cleric of sorts. Of course you'd need other party members, but I'm not looking into that right now. Just the initial concept.

Comment please.

Now, I think that this is something that I can agree with; especially since Mario RPG felt like..Mario in an RPG, not like any Final Fantasy. (That and it spawned the whole Paper Mario franchise... )

The only downside to me is that the gameplay would certainly change, which has become somewhat integral in the games, especially as fights are getting better.

Overall, it wouldn't be any too drastic of a change, and would probably be accepted by most of the fanbase(myself included.)

That is of course, unless it sucks...

TheAvengerButton said

That WOULD be fun.


Though who would be in that lineup?

At at least one point there must be Tingle.

And I think the whole team from TP would do fine.

[Runty Grunty]

Tingle, IMO, is a bit of a painintheass. He's so weird. I wouldn't really like him as a party member, but to each his own.

As for party characters, well you'd obviously have Link and Zelda. Link would be your standard party leader: good combat skills and moderate magic, and he's with you the whole game. Zelda would be your spellcaster, with high magic power but low durability. Whether Zelda would be a Black Mage or White Mage style spellcaster would be up for debate.

For other characters, you'd need a big muscle guy, probably a Goron. All physical power, with either weak or no magical abilities. You'd also need some kinds of specialists of sorts. Maybe one party character could be an archer, another could be an agility-based fighter. The list goes on, but I think whatever the case is, it's going to require some completely new characters. As much as Midna would be welcome, I think we'd need someone else. Maybe you guys could come up with some ideas.

As for gameplay, it would need some innovation. Whether the battles should be like earlier Final Fantasy titles or like other RPGs (i.e. Star Ocean) is debatable, but I'd personally think turn-based would be best. But as a must, it would need to be a bit difficult, or it won't be fun. I'm sure you agree with me on that. I presently don't have any ideas as to what kinds of innovative gameplay could be in a Zelda RPG, so I'm open to suggestions.

Please discuss some more.

[Nameless_Joe]

The idea of a Zelda RPG similar to the SNES Mario title has been kicked around for at least 5 years, if not more. I've always been in the camp supporting this idea; since the programmers wouldn't have to focus on visuals as much as with an adventure game (Zelda isn't a true RPG) and a much more immersive backstory could be scripted. In addition, there could be a REALLY large assortment of enemies, the likes of which haven't been seen since LttP. Nice as it sounds, will Nintendo ever listen to the fans on this point? Doubtful, especially now that Fire Emblem has gone international. Between Paper Mario and Fire Emblem, there isn't much room for a Zelda RPG. (Unless you consider Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland...)


Of course Link would be the party leader. Since the dialogue would most likely be in text form, he could act as either silent protagonist or (easily) have lines for a change. Zelda could act as the white mage while and Midna could return *yay!* as the black mage. If going with the common RPG motif of a four-character party, secondary characters could be cycled in and out. Of course, today's gaming platforms can easily accomodate larger parties if going for more of a military strategy theme.


I'm currently playing through Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance. (It is the first Fire Emblem title I've tried.) One point that disappoints me is the lack of ability to explore towns, etc.; with the exception of a bit of dialogue in between chapters, the game goes straight from one battlefield to the next. I wouldn't want that limited scope of control in Zelda.

[Runty Grunty]

Nameless_Joe, on Feb 26 2008, 11:54 PM, said:

The idea of a Zelda RPG similar to the SNES Mario title has been kicked around for at least 5 years, if not more. I've always been in the camp supporting this idea; since the programmers wouldn't have to focus on visuals as much as with an adventure game (Zelda isn't a true RPG) and a much more immersive backstory could be scripted. In addition, there could be a REALLY large assortment of enemies, the likes of which haven't been seen since LttP. Nice as it sounds, will Nintendo ever listen to the fans on this point? Doubtful, especially now that Fire Emblem has gone international. Between Paper Mario and Fire Emblem, there isn't much room for a Zelda RPG. (Unless you consider Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland...)


Of course Link would be the party leader. Since the dialogue would most likely be in text form, he could act as either silent protagonist or (easily) have lines for a change. Zelda could act as the white mage while and Midna could return *yay!* as the black mage. If going with the common RPG motif of a four-character party, secondary characters could be cycled in and out. Of course, today's gaming platforms can easily accomodate larger parties if going for more of a military strategy theme.


I'm currently playing through Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance. (It is the first Fire Emblem title I've tried.) One point that disappoints me is the lack of ability to explore towns, etc.; with the exception of a bit of dialogue in between chapters, the game goes straight from one battlefield to the next. I wouldn't want that limited scope of control in Zelda.

Fire Emblem isn't really an RPG. Rather, it's more of a turn-based strategy game than an RPG. But yeah, Fire Emblem: PoR is good.

And yeah, I'd want the ability to explore towns in a Zelda RPG. Also, like in Zelda titles, there should be secrets everywhere, and dungeons should need to be like a Zelda title (to some degree). Puzzling, but very fun (with the possible exception of OoT's Water Temple).

[Fyxe]

Nameless_Joe, on Feb 27 2008, 04:54 AM, said:

I'm currently playing through Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance. (It is the first Fire Emblem title I've tried.) One point that disappoints me is the lack of ability to explore towns, etc.; with the exception of a bit of dialogue in between chapters, the game goes straight from one battlefield to the next. I wouldn't want that limited scope of control in Zelda.

As already mentioned, Fire Emblem is a Strategy-RPG, so the fairly linear progression through the chapters is just how the game works. However, you'll find you do have a surprising amount of variation in the way you play; it's all about Support Conversations and if you keep certain people alive or manage to turn others to your side, the plot can change in some ways. You can also tackle certain chapters in entirely different ways. Try experimenting. ^^

That said, PoR is one of the more linear FE games; the GBA games have alternate chapters and hidden chapters to go through. PoR makes up for this by being a very long game and being very balanced. It's also just plain excellent in general. XP

Uhm, back on topic. >.>

Edited by Fyxe, 27 February 2008 - 05:02 PM.

[CID Farwin]

Now, I'm not sure what most people are thinking of, but when I think "Zelda RPG" I picture something that still captures most of what Zelda is, and only changing, say, the fight system, which is really the only difference.

Lufia 2, anyone? in that game, which is a pretty well 'classic' RPG, you still use arrows, bombs, etc. I don't see how there would be that drastic of a change, except new characters(which would be a total plus)

Quote

Tingle, IMO, is a bit of a painintheass. He's so weird. I wouldn't really like him as a party member, but to each his own.

well, I personally think he would be awesome, especially as some sort of secret unlockable character near the end of the end of the game with awesome attacks(Wind Waker Game Boy 2nd player style) that use rupees. Again, an optional character, so those who hate his essence don't have to have him.

[CloneWarrior]

Well, considering all the sidequests in the Paper Mario games, if Nintendo made a Zelda RPG, I'd assume there'd be many in that...

So characters could be:

Link: Has many weapon-based moves, including the sword, bombs and boomerang.
Zelda: Uses magic and defensive attacks.
Goron: Mainly physical attacks, could use the Goron Drums.
Zora: Has water-based magic, fin-cutters and guitar.
Sheikah: Ninja-style sneak attacks, smoke bombs, weak magic.

Tingle could be optionable, with his attacks using a certain amount of rupees, rather than magic.

Different clothing and badges could be bought for the characters.

Maybe different weapons, if only for Link or for everyone...

[D~N]

If it were up to me, characters would range from Link to Postman to Deku Butler to Old Man. Seriously, if they made a Zelda RPG, it'd have to be HUGE. I'd want everyone, and maybe that's greedy, but I can only think big when I think rpg's.
As for the party, Link as an obvious leader, with Zelda as an obvious mage. The super-awesome-anti-ganon-team-go from Twilight Princess (Shad, was it? and the rest of them) would be a shoe-in for party members, easly in the game at least. Later on we can drop them for cooler people, like maybe a generic goron (or, a specific goron, though who this specific goron would be beats me) or a Zora soldier.

Deku guards from MM could make a much-needed return, but for their class, I have no idea. Perhaps just a "balanced" party member, or something...I dunno. A Hylian guard would be cool. But we need more variation. How about, and this would be a very late option, but link should definately transform human-->wolf mid battle when he wants. Also, for kicks and giggles, Barnes would be an awesome party member.

Midna is Zelda's best character to date, so I'm certain this hypothetical RPG would bring her back as a black mage. Additionally, past teammates would have to return, and I don't mean Navi. Ricky, Dimitri, and Moosh. Bring 'em back!!!! If they made this rpg, it would almost be a spin off (or as close as Zelda should ever get to one) so I think they should take advantage of the opportunity and defy the laws of the timeline just this once, for the sake of a good rpg.

Bring back the successful parts of AoL. Magic system, experience points, overhead map with random enemy encounters, and towns - lots and lots of towns. However, no sidescrolling please. Not that I don't want sidescrolling to return to Zelda - it's a good idea, to be sure. Just not for an RPG, obviously. No limited extra lives x___x And while we're at it, improve the leveling up system to make it less...stupid.

All in all, they could easily do this. Since graphics aren't the main concern, they should just take TP, like the entire GCN build, and just copy-->paste it. Using more of the areas they took out of the game, though, like the woods from some early gameplay footage/trailers would be cool. But if they just copy-->pasted TP, made the overworld bigger, added more TOWNS, and made the combat system true to RPG's, than that's all I'd need. Plus Moosh. MOOOOOSSSHHHH!!

Edited by D~N, 27 February 2008 - 04:07 PM.

[Runty Grunty]

CID Farwin, on Feb 27 2008, 01:56 PM, said:

Now, I'm not sure what most people are thinking of, but when I think "Zelda RPG" I picture something that still captures most of what Zelda is, and only changing, say, the fight system, which is really the only difference.

Lufia 2, anyone? in that game, which is a pretty well 'classic' RPG, you still use arrows, bombs, etc. I don't see how there would be that drastic of a change, except new characters(which would be a total plus)

Reference to Lufia 2? You've got the right idea, man. That system would work well for a Zelda title.

[LionHarted]

Ideas for a "party" that I've been playing with:

Link (obviously); well-rounded
Zelda; mage / Sheik; thief
Rusl; swords/animals
Auru; guns
Ashei; advanced sword
Shad;
Fyer&Falbi (maybe?)

[Kairu Hakubi]

Much as I love parties, I hate turn-based combat. Fortunately that's no longer considered necessary for a 'true' RPG thanks to Tales and that one FF game that nobody liked.

[Nameless_Joe]

Just curious, would that FF game happen to be Crystal Chronicles? (I played that one for about three hours before losing interest) Or are you referring to another one?

[Raien]

Nameless_Joe, on Mar 3 2008, 01:28 AM, said:

Just curious, would that FF game happen to be Crystal Chronicles? (I played that one for about three hours before losing interest) Or are you referring to another one?

I think he means FFXII, since it abandoned traditional turn-based combat.

[Chiaki]

jhurvid, on Mar 4 2008, 04:53 AM, said:

Nameless_Joe, on Mar 3 2008, 01:28 AM, said:

Just curious, would that FF game happen to be Crystal Chronicles? (I played that one for about three hours before losing interest) Or are you referring to another one?

I think he means FFXII, since it abandoned traditional turn-based combat.

Crystal Chronicles didn't have turn based combat either...and it was a ton of fun to play with my friends, too.

[ShadyUltima]

Am I the only one who thinks that if they make a Zelda RPG... it would not have ANY prior characters?

Notice, Link is the ONLY character who has appeared in every LoZ game. Even Zelda isn't in all of them.

So in all honesty, if they made a Zelda RPG, first off, I'd prefer for them to go back to Termina. In fact, Termina needs a re-visit... or at LEAST the Fierce Diety does!

A likely party would be

Link
Zelda
Important Goron - along the lines of Darunia or something like that, but a new character.
Important Zora - a female, most likely, as the most recognizable Zoras are female.

And probably some other characters.
Also, depending if it's a first party Zelda, or a licensed game would depend on Tingle. If the game was made for a Western audience, he probably would not be there, as what happened in TP. I personally hate him, and wish they would never put him in another Zelda game at all.

[Chiaki]

ShadyUltima, on Mar 5 2008, 11:42 AM, said:

Am I the only one who thinks that if they make a Zelda RPG... it would not have ANY prior characters?

I think you're the only one who remembered that factor. I liked the characters (well, most of them anyway) in TP, so it would be nice to see them again, but you're right, its probably not too likely.

[KeeSomething]

I don't believe this rumor, but it would be wonderful if it turned out to be true.

I think most fans can agree that the Zelda series has been dramatically water-down since the N64 games. The gameplay feels more like tutorals, and the writing feels as uncreative and cheesy as most fanfictions you read on forums. I really don't trust Aonuma directing Zelda games anymore. I think the series needs a complete overhaul, and it needs to go back to its roots: exploration, puzzles (without the hand-holding), and a boy with a sword. Retro Studios, or Intelligent Systems, would be perfect developers to take over Zelda. Retro knows how to create beautiful games with rewarding exploration and unpredictables boss battles. Intelligent Systems knows how to write a great story with great characters, and they also know what makes a game fun and rewarding.

I would really love to hear this rumor confirmed true, but I can't see it happening. Not after Phantom Hourglass, possibly the most watered-down Zelda yet, sold so well.

Quote

So in all honesty, if they made a Zelda RPG, first off, I'd prefer for them to go back to Termina. In fact, Termina needs a re-visit... or at LEAST the Fierce Diety does!

No. Majora's Mask is my favorite game, but I don't think you can recreate that world without it feeling shallow in camparison to the original. The whole world of Termina was bound together by a specific them, the moral on Majora's Mask. Unless they build up another Zelda ground up with that theme in mind, I don't think you could successfully recreate Termina.

Instead, I'd rather Nintendo take the series into a new land and compeletely forget about the mythology behind Hyrule or Termina. We've seen Hyrule over and over, in 3D and 2D, and quite frankly, I'm tired of visiting the same places over and over. I wouldn't mind exploring a more industrial or alien world. Retro Studios is amazing with art and level design, and I think it would restrict their creativity if they were limited by the rules of Hyrule: 1 Lake, 1 mountain, 1 forest, 1 desert, 1 castle town, etc..

[Nameless_Joe]

KeeSomething, on Mar 5 2008, 07:11 PM, said:

I think most fans can agree that the Zelda series has been dramatically water-down since the N64 games. The gameplay feels more like tutorals, and the writing feels as uncreative and cheesy as most fanfictions you read on forums.

I would love to see a revised combat system in a 3-d title. Something similar in feel to a fighting game, perhaps. It would be more interesting if a player was required to use different attacks rather than hitting the 'sword button' a few times at each enemy and moving on. The games definitely need to be harder.

Quote

Instead, I'd rather Nintendo take the series into a new land and compeletely forget about the mythology behind Hyrule or Termina. We've seen Hyrule over and over, in 3D and 2D, and quite frankly, I'm tired of visiting the same places over and over.

*Applauds* Yes, I am so tired of 'exploring' the same land, having Ganon/Ganondorf be the final boss, etc. (Excluding the islands of the Great Sea) Zelda players haven't quested across new terra firma since 2001, when the Oracle games were released.

One other thing I've considered: Zelda needs more blind ambushes. Remember playing OoT and having enemies jump out ? It was similar to being attacked in a horror game. Nintendo needs to reincorporate some of those "jump clear off the sofa" moments into Zelda.