120 replies to this topic

[Masamune]

Okay guys, I'm seriously ashamed to see no thread on this here. I beat the game and nothing? Way to drop the ball guys.

*ahem* Anyways.

So I beat the game and...


Holy crap!? Is that the EFFING WINDFISH!?

I... didn't see that coming. I guess Tetra's pirates never showing up was something of a clue but uh, okay Nintendo. Thanks for creating an original set of islands and then POOFING THEM. Okay.

Anyways. Linebeck survived I guess. No real impact on the timeline to speak of, I think.

Interesting note that the King and his four knights are named after Mutoh and his carpenters (the TMC versions at least).

Bremor = Bremeur
Mack = Max
Brent = Brant
Doyle = Doylan

Edited by Masamune, 11 October 2007 - 09:40 PM.

[SOAP]

Personally I saw that coming a mile away.

[Masamune]

Really? How?

[LionHarted]

Who said the islands went poof? It looked like you just went back in time to me.

[Masamune]

No, Oshus said that he was returning them to their own world. So... while it's possible it wasn't a dream, it definitely wasn't the same world as Hyrule.

[SOAP]

Really? How?

C'mon! Link and Tetra get lost in a fog. Tetra gets kidnapped. Link falls into the ocean and washes up ashore of some mysterious island where a fairy greets him. It's very simmilar to Link getting tossed off his boat during the storm and washing up on Kohilint where Marin finds him and nurses him back to health. Besides the whole Ocean King thing gave me an impression that he would turn out to the Windfish. Whales are kinda the kings of the ocean.

That and TWW just gave the impression of a very wet ALttP. So when I first heard of there being a sequel for the DS, it was only logical it'd follow suit and invoke the feeling of LA.

Oh yeah, and at one point, the creators reffered to it as Zelda's Awakening.

[Hero of Legend]

I knew PH was a spiritual sequel to LA when Nintendo revealed that Link would get lost at sea and awaken on an unfamilar island.

I don't think the Ocean King IS the Wind Fish. He has no colours or wings or anything like that.

No, PH doesn't say change much from a timeline perspective, but it does tell us where the Four Swords games go. Now we need a sequel about new Hyrule, Nintendo...

[LionHarted]

No, Oshus said that he was returning them to their own world. So... while it's possible it wasn't a dream, it definitely wasn't the same world as Hyrule.

This is more or less what Zelda said when she sent Link back in time at the end of OoT.

And I can guarantee that it is the same world as Hyrule, otherwise you get a lot of paradoxes, since that world is referenced constantly throughout the intro before they ever could have entered/discovered it.

[Masamune]

No, PH doesn't say change much from a timeline perspective, but it does tell us where the Four Swords games go.

You mean the inclusion of Force Gems/Rupoors/Pseudo-Rupees? Those don't mean anything, unless you're referring to something else.

Now we need a sequel about new Hyrule, Nintendo...

That's Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland.

And I can guarantee that it is the same world as Hyrule, otherwise you get a lot of paradoxes, since that world is referenced constantly throughout the intro before they ever could have entered/discovered it.

I'd definitely like to believe that. Care to elaborate?

Edited by Masamune, 12 October 2007 - 08:15 AM.

[LionHarted]

I'd definitely like to believe that. Care to elaborate?

They say these seas are
protected, yeah?
Something about a spirit
called the Ocean King.
Wouldn't a spirit like that
protect the ships?
Unless there really is an
evil Ghost Ship...

"These seas" are protected by the Ocean King (as opposed to other seas?).
"These seas", in fact, seem to be the "world of the Ocean King".

[Hero of Legend]

You mean the inclusion of Force Gems/Rupoors/Pseudo-Rupees? Those don't mean anything, unless you're referring to something else.

Yes, well, actually, they do mean something. It might be easier if you read this. Personally, I'm going to assume Nintendo's obvious efforts to link the games weren't completely meaningless.

That's Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland.

I'm listening.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 12 October 2007 - 09:07 AM.

[Masamune]

They say these seas are
protected, yeah?
Something about a spirit
called the Ocean King.
Wouldn't a spirit like that
protect the ships?
Unless there really is an
evil Ghost Ship...

"These seas" are protected by the Ocean King (as opposed to other seas?).
"These seas", in fact, seem to be the "world of the Ocean King".

Ah, I forgot about the mention of the Ocean King before that. Granted, if the Ocean King is some kind of Windfish deity, then he can exist both in his own world and the real one. But I like this.

Yes, well, actually, they do mean something. It might be easier if you read this. Personally, I'm going to assume Nintendo's obvious efforts to link the games weren't completely meaningless.

Hmm. I dunno. Force Gems are used in a different context here (they were currency in FSA, after all). I don't think they in any way indicate a timeline placement coinciding with TMC or the FS games. After all, we might say FSA takes place at the very END of the timeline because they ONLY use Force Gems (or at the very beginning before they came up with Rupees). If we're going to make speculation about that, I might theorize:

All Rupee Zelda Games > The Adventure of Link (market crash! no rupees!) > Four Swords Adventures (a new currency standard)

Of course that's rather silly, so I think the Force Gems are just a throwaway reference. It helps to canonize the Four Sword trilogy, but doesn't really work it in anywhere specific like, say, the Four Sword Sanctuary in ALttP.

That's Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland.

I'm listening.

Well it's rather clever, really. The game brings back the Great Deku Tree, which is significant. His appearance greatly resembles the one in The Wind Waker.

More significantly, the game takes place on a series of islands. Key locations include the Deku Forest (obviously the Lost Woods) and the volcanic Mount Desma - which could very possibly be Death Mountain. The significance of this? These islands are EXTREMELY close to eachother, but still separated by small straights of ocean. You might say to yourself, "Perhaps the Great Deku Tree succeeded in pulling the islands back together or after the water level receded some." ... and you could be right in saying so! Tingle's Rupeeland could very well be the kind of game that exists in the transitional phase from the tiny islands from TWW to the larger landmasses loosely connected in Rupeeland... into whatever Zelda game you want to put afterwards.

[Hero of Legend]

Hmm. I dunno. Force Gems are used in a different context here (they were currency in FSA, after all). I don't think they in any way indicate a timeline placement coinciding with TMC or the FS games.

Heh. Yes, I suppose you are right about that. However, while Force Gems are used as currency in the minigames of FSA, I'm afraid we both of must realise that it's simply a gameplay mechanic. The whole point of the Force Gems is provide power to the Four Sword. They're magical pieces of power, and that part of the story takes precedence. Besides, the light force wasn't used as payment in TMC, and that's a part of PH too. You are right in that it only canonizes the Four Swords series though. However, it's quite obvious it takes place after TWW anyway.

As for Tingle, I'm looking for a new land found by Link and Tetra. Good theory, though.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 12 October 2007 - 03:39 PM.

[Masamune]

Well my example of the currency wasn't a serious one, obviously. I don't think, after all, that FSA is an indication that they had to replace Rupees with another currency standard. But yeah, while it's true the Force Gems are intrinsically linked to the Triforce mythos (courtesy of PH's Force Gem puzzles), it doesn't tell us anything outside of that. Four Sword is really an awful name. It should be the THREE Sword, because it creates three duplicates of Link. Which would've been better, since that would make it seem more related to the series preoccupation on things coming in threes.

Obvious that PH comes after TWW... well yeah. Unless you're referring to the Four Swords Trilogy?

I dunno if we'll ever see Link and Tetra finding a new land though. Phantom Hourglass was pretty much our only shot at that. The unspoken rule of all Zelda games now: (1) They only come in pairs and (2) GOTTA REFERENCE OoT ZOMG

[Evils Bane]

Obvious that PH comes after TWW... well yeah. Unless you're referring to the Four Swords Trilogy?

hmm...i have been thinking about the idea of FS/FSA coming after PH and i think that maybe, just maybe, it could work. think about it. on one side of the timeline (child half) you have the whole story of the triforce/master sword, and on the other (adult half) you have the story of force gems/four sword. it just seems cleaner and simpler that way. i know right now this idea may seem a little farfetched since FSA seems like such an obvious prequel to ALttP and we have no proof (yet) of a new Hyrule being founded, but now that PH is out and it seems to make some references to the FS games, this could be what nintendo is planning. just a theory

[LionHarted]

... Of course, I'm still convinced that the Triforce is just the "Force Gems" of the goddesses, especially after PH.

[SOAP]

Obvious that PH comes after TWW... well yeah. Unless you're referring to the Four Swords Trilogy?

hmm...i have been thinking about the idea of FS/FSA coming after PH and i think that maybe, just maybe, it could work. think about it. on one side of the timeline (child half) you have the whole story of the triforce/master sword, and on the other (adult half) you have the story of force gems/four sword. it just seems cleaner and simpler that way. i know right now this idea may seem a little farfetched since FSA seems like such an obvious prequel to ALttP and we have no proof (yet) of a new Hyrule being founded, but now that PH is out and it seems to make some references to the FS games, this could be what nintendo is planning. just a theory

I'm actually thinking that FSA may be parallel to ALttP on the othervside of the split timeline. That would explain the similarities and borrowed themes more than it being a prequel/sequel.

I also already called dibs on the Triforce being Force Gems of the Goddesses in the other thread.

[Hero of Legend]

Well my example of the currency wasn't a serious one, obviously.

Yeah, I got that.

Obvious that PH comes after TWW... well yeah. Unless you're referring to the Four Swords Trilogy?

Four Swords. Maybe I wasn't clear on that.

I dunno if we'll ever see Link and Tetra finding a new land though. Phantom Hourglass was pretty much our only shot at that. The unspoken rule of all Zelda games now: (1) They only come in pairs and (2) GOTTA REFERENCE OoT ZOMG

Hah. Unfortunately, yes. However, Aonuma once said: "We can have an unlimited number of stories in the Zelda series. A new adventure may be waiting for them if they just wander into the sea next to the one they're sailing." And the TWW style apparently has been deemed favorable for future handheld games.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 13 October 2007 - 04:34 PM.

[Evils Bane]

I'm actually thinking that FSA may be parallel to ALttP on the othervside of the split timeline.

my point exactly

[SOAP]

Personally I'd like to see them drop the two-game-per-Link rule. And definately the "must relate to OoT" rule. That one is getting tiresome.

[Masamune]

I'm actually thinking that FSA may be parallel to ALttP on the othervside of the split timeline.

my point exactly

So... I guess that would imply that in one timeline, the Four Sword is this pimping weapon (FS, FSA) and in another... it just kind of gets forgotten (ALttP Four Sword Sanctuary).

[SOAP]

I'm actually thinking that FSA may be parallel to ALttP on the othervside of the split timeline.

my point exactly

So... I guess that would imply that in one timeline, the Four Sword is this pimping weapon (FS, FSA) and in another... it just kind of gets forgotten (ALttP Four Sword Sanctuary).

Or that the FS sanctuary in ALttP is an Easter Egg. Like the Legend of the Fairy.

[Hero of Legend]

So... I guess that would imply that in one timeline, the Four Sword is this pimping weapon (FS, FSA) and in another... it just kind of gets forgotten (ALttP Four Sword Sanctuary).

Well, the Master Sword apparently is forgotten following TWW, so it kinda evens out. Explains why it's never used against Vaati/Ganon, too.

Personally I'd like to see them drop the two-game-per-Link rule. And definately the "must relate to OoT" rule. That one is getting tiresome.

Aye, I hear ya, mate. Fortunately, I doubt there will be any more OoT sequels. The split timeline is over and done with, and the "OMG OoT sequel!" strategy evidently fails to make the game more popular. Thus, a new direction is what we'll get from here on.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 14 October 2007 - 11:06 AM.

[Masamune]

Or that the FS sanctuary in ALttP is an Easter Egg. Like the Legend of the Fairy.

Laaaaaaaame. If you're technical enough to go to the extreme of splitting the timeline, you can't just pass off stuff like that as an Easter Egg! You can call the Mario painting in OoT an Easter Egg... but an entire piece of plot relating to Tingle? An ENTIRE dungeon?

No sir, you can't write that off your taxes.

[SOAP]

The only way the FS sanctuary makes sense is if the Link in FS and ALttP is the same Link. It has nothing to do with the split since even in a single timeline that doesn't make sense.

[Masamune]

I see where you're coming from, but that's rather bunk. Yeah, you have to beat FS to access the Four Sword Sanctuary, but that's a gameplay mechanic and nothing more. Are we to believe that in Link's Awakening, Koholint is LITERALLY black and white, unless magically it's color and you have the Color Dungeon? Or that in the Oracles games, the Advance Shop will ONLY open if Link somehow has a GBA?

Of course not. All those locations still exist, but they just have silly gameplay mechanics attached to them that we're free to dismiss - in the same way we can dismiss people telling Link to equip items to C or to talk with A and stuff like that. Navi is no less real in the game just because she tells Link how to equip items to C.

[LionHarted]

The only way the FS sanctuary makes sense is if the Link in FS and ALttP is the same Link.

Not true; ALttP never references FS (outside of the dungeon itself).

[Evils Bane]

So... I guess that would imply that in one timeline, the Four Sword is this pimping weapon (FS, FSA) and in another... it just kind of gets forgotten (ALttP Four Sword Sanctuary).

right. and then you have the master sword which in one half of the timeline is very powerful and revered, and in the other half buried beneath the waves never to be used again... how ironic. i think it makes for a very good storyline

[LionHarted]

I also already called dibs on the Triforce being Force Gems of the Goddesses in the other thread.

I called it when FSA came out.

[SOAP]

I see where you're coming from, but that's rather bunk. Yeah, you have to beat FS to access the Four Sword Sanctuary, but that's a gameplay mechanic and nothing more. Are we to believe that in Link's Awakening, Koholint is LITERALLY black and white, unless magically it's color and you have the Color Dungeon? Or that in the Oracles games, the Advance Shop will ONLY open if Link somehow has a GBA?

Of course not. All those locations still exist, but they just have silly gameplay mechanics attached to them that we're free to dismiss - in the same way we can dismiss people telling Link to equip items to C or to talk with A and stuff like that. Navi is no less real in the game just because she tells Link how to equip items to C.

No obviously you don't see where I'm coming from if you think if it's as bunk saying everything is really was black and white in LA or taking comments that break the fourth wall seriously.