60 replies to this topic

[Alakhriveion]

Well, I'm happy, because I can now buy all the high-powered weapons I want, without having the cops on my back, and I'm hell-bent on the total destruction of American values. The rest of you?

[Hero of Winds]

Hell-bent on the total destruction of anti-American values.

[Alakhriveion]

Still, what do you think of the fact that people like me can just carry an AK-47 for recreation?

Also, if you need a hundred rounds a minute to kill a deer, try a new sport.

[SteveT]

Gun laws only stop non-criminals from packing heat. People bent on destruction just use a thing called the Black Market anyway.

However, this does present a problem when aspiring criminals who lack connections are involved.

[Alakhriveion]

Well, this just makes it easier for them. Remember, the Black Market is small and hard to use, Kmart is much easier.

[SteveT]

Right, that's where things become problematic. But if everyday average citizen is armed just as well as tense, jittyery aspiring criminal, we don't have a problem.

Personally, I'd like the maximum level of weapons technology to top off around steel swords, but that's just me.

(No, I'm not suggesting it's actually a good idea for everyone to have an AK-47. There should be no need for that.)

[arunma]

Ahh Steve, the voice of reason as always.

In any case, I'm opposed to assult weapons (and I'd favor a ban on them). Carrying guns shouldn't be a right. Who needs to kill stuff, anyway? Why not just let people carry atomic bombs in their pockets, if we truly deserve the right to "bear arms?"

[Korhend]

The problem is the bill didn't have enough power, it kept away scary looking/sounding guns while other one have been on the market all this time. The D.C. sniper's rifle was comparable with an AR-15. Still I wish I was 18. Then I could have walked in to the gun store monday muttering "kills them all!" and see if they would still sell me the gun

[Alakhriveion]

Originally posted by SteveT@Sep 15 2004, 08:45 PM
Right, that's where things become problematic.  But if everyday average citizen is armed just as well as tense, jittyery aspiring criminal, we don't have a problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh yes, we do. Vigilantism is a VERY bad thing.

By the way, I'll say it again, I hate the president, I drink nine cups of coffee a day, my blood is 95% testosterone at age 15, in a few months I'll have a driver's liscence, and I CAN BUY A MACHINE GUN!

[SteveT]

Well, what if the man starts housing soldiers in your guest room?

Vigilantees are technically criminals. ie: people who don't respect the law. They're another class of people who find other means to get their weaponry.

I'm talking about self defense. Very, very potent self defense and surely overreactive self defense, but self-defense nonetheless.

[Alistia]

Originally posted by arunma@Sep 15 2004, 09:46 PM
Ahh Steve, the voice of reason as always. 

In any case, I'm opposed to assult weapons (and I'd favor a ban on them).  Carrying guns shouldn't be a right.  Who needs to kill stuff, anyway?  Why not just let people carry atomic bombs in their pockets, if we truly deserve the right to "bear arms?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed.

[Alakhriveion]

Originally posted by SteveT@Sep 15 2004, 08:49 PM
Well, what if the man starts housing soldiers in your guest room?

Vigilantees are technically criminals.  ie: people who don't respect the law.  They're another class of people who find other means to get their weaponry.

I'm talking about self defense.  Very, very potent self defense and surely overreactive self defense, but self-defense nonetheless.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's a thin line, self-defense and vigilantism. Anyway, let's err on the side of caution and just ban all guns, period, OK?

[SteveT]

Yes, put the law-abiding citizens at a huge disadvantage in matters of their own life and death.

Oh, and I should also mention that it's very thick, well defined line. It's vigilanteism when you initiate a deadly encounter with a criminal. It's self-defense when the criminal initiates the encounter with you, and threatens you.

[arunma]

Originally posted by Alakhriveion@Sep 15 2004, 08:52 PM
It's a thin line, self-defense and vigilantism.  Anyway, let's err on the side of caution and just ban all guns, period, OK?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK (no, I really do agree). But just as you kicked me out of here the other day when I had to get to class, I'm gonna have to eject you so that you can observe the Holy Day.

*Beats Alak with a Tanakh*

[Alakhriveion]

Leaving. You win.

[arunma]

...

Hope I didn't hurt him too bad.

Aw man, I dented my Tanakh. This is all your fault Alak!

[Coltxdoom]

Originally posted by Alakhriveion@Sep 15 2004, 07:30 PM
Well, I'm happy, because I can now buy all the high-powered weapons I want, without having the cops on my back, and I'm hell-bent on the total destruction of American values.  The rest of you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Step out of my way and don't piss me off, i'm off to get a MACHINE GUN!!!

gahahahahhaha! We shall fufill the prophesy called THE GODFATHER!


muahhahaha!

[arunma]

There you are Dea...I mean, Colt.

[Dan Smith]

Technically, you could have bought assault rifles before; most weapons manufacturers found ways around the bans. From what I've heard, most of the things banned were things such as flash suppressors, and various knick-knacks.

[SteveT]

Yes, the ban had a lot of holes. It's actually better to just start from scratch, I would say, if you insist on having a ban in the first place.

I still say we should let people have guns, but crack down on shooting poeple with them.

[arunma]

Why? Are guns used for anything other than shooting people? Last time I checked, guns used for "self-defense" are more likely to kill someone other than the intended target (i.e. household firearm accidents).

[SteveT]

Guns remain a tool. People own drills and never use them. People own chopping axes and never use them. People also kill people with drills and axes, should they be illegal too?

Guns, likewise, are a tool for not getting yourself victimized. They're great for waving at theives, intruders, boys your daughter brings home, etc. (Yes, I know I'm exaggerating, but there is some in the standard NRA rhetoric.) And again, these laws only hurt the people who respect the law and wouldn't shoot anyone anyway.

But, of course, American laws tend to favor making potential illegal, not actual actions. Look at drug laws. It's not illegal to be high, but it sure is illegal to own pot. The difference is, you're can still get arrested for shooting people, which is the real problem anyway.

Also, to address the accidents: being an idiot isn't illegal, because you don't need the government's help in punishing yourself.

[arunma]

True Steve. But the fallacy is that drills and axes really are tools that have purposes other than killing. Guns don't have any purpose other than to kill people. They're not really a tool.

The Simpsons even mocked this idea by having Homer explain that a gun was a tool.

[SteveT]

Aside from hunting, which is of course, killing, but a more legitimate form.

But yes, that is a good point, save considering it a tool of self-defense.

[arunma]

Yes, guns are used for hunting. But rifles can be used for hunting purposes. And they are much safer, because they're far more conspicuous than handguns.

[SteveT]

We're on handguns now?

Ok, the cool thing about handguns is that, once again, it's a great crime deterrent. Aspiring criminals will be much less bold if they have no clue who's armed and who isn't.

[arunma]

Yeah, but it's easier for a pissed off lady to kill her ex.

[GraniteJJ]

Guns just make it easier for wannabees to kill someone. That guy who has always hated his boss finally gets the surge of initiative to do it when he has a gun in his hand. Otherwise, he will always wuss out.

It takes a real psychopath to murder someone with a drill or axe, and pyschopaths are fewer in number then the simple dead-beat criminal.

Example: A kid who is made fun of a ridiculous amount at school isn't going to go in and try to kill people with a power drill or an axe. Those don't give a sense of power to a kid who just wants to inspire some fear in his tormentors. Why? Because the power drill and axe can be turned against a person. A missed swing, or lunge, and your enemy could quickly have the weapon.
A gun inspires a sense of power, and allows you to release your anger without fear, because with a gun you feel like you are untouchable. Anyone tries to move near you, you shoot them, they're down. There's no uncertainty of whether you hacked the right area, or drilled the right area. Its just "bang, you're dead".
Again, you do have to be a psychopath to get a thrill out of killing with a drill or axe. Psychopaths usually do that because they get a sadistic thrill out of killing people with something other then a gun. Its like a challenge.

[SteveT]

Right, those are examples of a confrontation between an unarmed person and an armed person. If both are armed, the aggressor will think twice.

More importantly, they are also conflicts between someone who respects the law and someone who doesn't. Like I've said before, if you seriously want someone dead, you will find a way to kill them whether you have to shop at the black market, Walmart, or the hardware store. If you have enough disrespect for the law to murder someone, you sure as hell aren't gonna care about breaking gun restriction laws.

[arunma]

What Granite said.