141 replies to this topic

[Arturo]

It's fanfiction and speculation until the agme comes out. Of course it's not fanfiction saying taht something happens after TWW. But since PH hasn't come out...

[Raien]

Amen to that. The emotional resonacnce of TP's final battle was nothing by comparison. (Not that it wasn't a good game, simply saying that the final battle wasn't as good story-wise.)

I disagree wholeheartedly. TP's ending is the only one in the entire series that I have watched repeatedly because I enjoyed it so much. It wasn't the emotions of the characters that made it so fantastic, but the artistic license given when designing the scenery. Puppet Zelda, with her blue skin and golden eyes, was just the spookiest thing ever put onto a Zelda game, and floating in the air, she looked like a banshee. Then there was Ganon, who had that cool religious chanting whenever you got close to him, and that made him feel really Satanic in presence. Ganondorf was twice the size of Link, and the camera was constantly on the floor throughout the battle, which only emphasised further his size and power compared to Link. And then of course, there were all the cutscenes in-between. Zelda looked radiant when her soul returned to the body, Ganondorf died standing up (WOW!) and Midna made a crack about Link's lack of speech. I loved it.

It's fanfiction and speculation until the agme comes out. Of course it's not fanfiction saying taht something happens after TWW. But since PH hasn't come out...

Fanfiction refers to an event or cause that has been completely constructed by a fan. Interpretation is when you look at official evidence and suggest the meaning behind it. Referring to Aonuma is not fanfiction, but interpretation, especially within months of the game's release.

[MikePetersSucks]

Midna made a crack about Link's lack of speech.

And that, people, is why TP had the best ending ever.

[FDL]

Firstly, Hyrule Castle was more complex than the final dungeon of TWW, I thought.

Yeah, I really liked Hyrule Castle and I can't understand why some people didn't. Every 3D Zelda game has had a short, easy final dungeon.

Also, you guys, get over it, OoT was NOT that epic. It had it's moments, but it really, well, wasn't that epic. TP and MM both surpass it in epicness because they actually involve some, y'know, plot. OoT has, about... Three 'epic' moments. Ganondorf on the horse, waking up in the future, and fighting Ganon at the end. And that's it. The rest of the game is fairly standard dungeon hopping. Twilight Princess has a lot more dramatic and excellently directed moments. Come on, the first horse fight with King Bulblin was just awesome.

What I mean to say is, in it's simplicity OoT felt like you were really living out a legend. However, you're right, TP did have many individual moments which were epic. The Bulblin and Argorok fight, as well as going down Zora's River on that bird, come to mind. And the Ganon fights were also epic, just not as much as OoT's was. However, I may feel that way only because the circumstances in which I played these games were different.

And MM has a whole epic FEEL. The world is ending. Is that not enough for you? Eh. Can't please some people even if you improve the directing, characterisation and dialogue. No, no, they just want swordy swordy demon Ganon and they're happy.

MM was better than OoT in almost every way but I didn't consider it "epic". That doesn't matter, though.

And I can't say I agree with FDL about the other post-OoT games. TWW, I though, was quite good. The opening, the first visit to Hyrule, Ganondorf, the ending. Excellent, all of it. Sure, OoT might have one of the best build-ups for the final battle ever, but Ganondorf's words as he draws his dual swords out of nowhere made for a pretty damn badass scene, too.

I dunno, I didn't really like the ending of TWW. I know I'm alone in that, but it's just how I feel. However, I agree that the part where you go to Hyrule and the opeing had a gret feel to them.

I also loved the inspiration from ALttP, such as the sewers, the dungeon cells (two of them, just like in ALttP) and the castle tower.
I always considered the final battles almost a 'bonus'. The game could have finished with Zant if they wanted and ignored Ganon altogether (just increase the size of Twilight Palace and the Twilight Realm and make Zant tougher) but I thought the inclusion of Ganon was clever and full of nice touches. And I liked the Wolf Link against Beast Ganon fight. It was very enjoyable and much better than rehashing the Ganon fight from OoT.

Yeah, but what I meant(and I think HoL meant as well) was that the atmosphere was better.

I LIKE OoT, but I just think it's overrated, and people are unfairly claiming that it's a better game than TP. TP has so much effort put into it, it's just not fair to claim that OoT is better.

I never said OoT was better. TP was better in nearly every way. The only thing is that the feeling I used to get from OoT was never topped by TP. But, again, nostalgia is probably why in some of the points.

I disagree wholeheartedly. TP's ending is the only one in the entire series that I have watched repeatedly because I enjoyed it so much. It wasn't the emotions of the characters that made it so fantastic, but the artistic license given when designing the scenery. Puppet Zelda, with her blue skin and golden eyes, was just the spookiest thing ever put onto a Zelda game, and floating in the air, she looked like a banshee. Then there was Ganon, who had that cool religious chanting whenever you got close to him, and that made him feel really Satanic in presence. Ganondorf was twice the size of Link, and the camera was constantly on the floor throughout the battle, which only emphasised further his size and power compared to Link. And then of course, there were all the cutscenes in-between. Zelda looked radiant when her soul returned to the body, Ganondorf died standing up (WOW!) and Midna made a crack about Link's lack of speech. I loved it.

I gotta say, you reminding me of that stuff made me remember how cool some of those things were, the chanting in the Ganon fight especially.

[Fyxe]

I disagree wholeheartedly. TP's ending is the only one in the entire series that I have watched repeatedly because I enjoyed it so much. It wasn't the emotions of the characters that made it so fantastic, but the artistic license given when designing the scenery. Puppet Zelda, with her blue skin and golden eyes, was just the spookiest thing ever put onto a Zelda game, and floating in the air, she looked like a banshee. Then there was Ganon, who had that cool religious chanting whenever you got close to him, and that made him feel really Satanic in presence. Ganondorf was twice the size of Link, and the camera was constantly on the floor throughout the battle, which only emphasised further his size and power compared to Link. And then of course, there were all the cutscenes in-between. Zelda looked radiant when her soul returned to the body, Ganondorf died standing up (WOW!) and Midna made a crack about Link's lack of speech. I loved it.

You have just pointed out many of the wonderous things about the finale of TP.

May I also note the sky. THE SKY. Outside Hyrule Castle, from the top. It's amazing, and reminds me so much of the ending of ALttP (and the view of the Dark World from the Pyramid of Power, obviously).

For once in the 3D games we finally get to see how big Hyrule actually is, and for once it actually looked like a real world.

[Raien]

You have just pointed out many of the wonderous things about the finale of TP.

May I also note the sky. THE SKY. Outside Hyrule Castle, from the top. It's amazing, and reminds me so much of the ending of ALttP (and the view of the Dark World from the Pyramid of Power, obviously).

For once in the 3D games we finally get to see how big Hyrule actually is, and for once it actually looked like a real world.

I would have pointed out the sky, but I was skimming on a lot of things that I found awesome in TP's ending. I thought the best effect though was the curtain of Twilight that we saw when first leaving Faron Woods. Even after seeing all the game trailers, my mind went "WOW!" after seeing those wonderful colour illusions above Hyrule Field. The best backdrop for a 3D Zelda game.

[Hero of Legend]

For once in the 3D games we finally get to see how big Hyrule actually is, and for once it actually looked like a real world.

Except Hyrule Castle itself, which completely lacked doors on the first floor...

I dunno, I always thought Twilight Princess' final battle was a bit... off. Yes, Ganondorf is towering and menacing, but that only makes it seem even weirder when Link is able to overpower him once they lock swords. And while on the subject, it sure doesn't explain why he somersaults when hit. The fact that he's so slow doesn't help much either, especially when compared to Ninja-Ganondorf from TWW, whom was still just as powerful. Of course, OoT wins over both, since Ganondorf doesn't actually die in that one... Though, I recon TWW had the better death. TP could have been cool, but Zant just confused it.

Obviously, I’m not saying TP was bad, just that it wasn’t the best, either.

[Fyxe]

Zant didn't confuse anything, it's just that people are too dumb to understand symbolism.

Yes, the Zant thing has gone too far. If people don't understand it, they're just being fools. That's the nub of it.

I see vaguely what you mean about the final battle, but about Ganondorf somersaulting, that's because Link swipes at his legs I thought. And he wasn't *that* slow, he just didn't rush around. I'm glad they didn't rehash the battle from TWW too much.

Hyrule Castle lacking doors? Maaaaybe that cos Ganondorf rearranged the castle. Bad guys do that sort of thing. I mean, really, having the throne room at the top of the tower is more than a little odd.

[Raien]

Since we're off-topic here, will no one reply to my destiny topic?
...after I spent so much time on it as well. *sniff*

Edited by jhurvid, 01 May 2007 - 07:45 PM.

[Hero of Legend]

Zant didn't confuse anything, it's just that people are too dumb to understand symbolism.

Yes, the Zant thing has gone too far. If people don't understand it, they're just being fools. That's the nub of it.

You know, your interpretation isn't exactly fact. No, it really isn't. Shocking, I know. Not that I'm saying you're wrong...

Regardless, Nintendo definitely could have handled it better.

Hyrule Castle lacking doors? Maaaaybe that cos Ganondorf rearranged the castle. Bad guys do that sort of thing. I mean, really, having the throne room at the top of the tower is more than a little odd.

I suppose we could assume Ganondorf changed the castle, but then I've got to say, Vaati did a hell of a lot better job than him.

Oh, and I nearly forgot; Twilight Princess worst crime against Zelda-ness? Ganondorf's new voice (Shame on you if you didn’t notice!). Not that the new guy is bad, but his "Mwuhuhu..." laugh just can't compare to "Muhahahaha!"

Takashi Nagasako, you shall be missed. *sniff*

Edited by Hero of Legend, 02 May 2007 - 05:51 AM.

[Arturo]

The throne chamber was in the same place with Zelda as ruler, remember the cutscene where she resigns.

[SOAP]

Since we're off-topic here, will no one reply to my destiny topic?
...after I spent so much time on it as well. *sniff*

There's nothing much to discuss in that thread.

[Fyxe]

The throne chamber was in the same place with Zelda as ruler, remember the cutscene where she resigns.

We don't see where the chamber is though.

You know, your interpretation isn't exactly fact. No, it really isn't. Shocking, I know. Not that I'm saying you're wrong...

It is fact. I'm don't care if it technically isn't, it IS because the alternatives are utter BS.

Regardless, Nintendo definitely could have handled it better.

Well I understood it was symbolism.

[SOAP]

Maybe Zelda is just antisocial. Or thinks of herself a god. Or maybe both.

Edited by SOAP, 02 May 2007 - 06:25 AM.

[Hero of Legend]

It is fact. I'm don't care if it technically isn't, it IS because the alternatives are utter BS.

Not really. That scene could easily symbolize Ganondorf losing the power of the Twili (which he apparently obtained from Zant), or anything else you want it to.

[Sentient]

What is your interpretation of Zant's appearance during Ganondorf's death, Fyxe? I see it as just showing that the bond they shared disappeared now that both of them were dead.

[Fyxe]

Not really. That scene could easily symbolize Ganondorf losing the power of the Twili (which he apparently obtained from Zant), or anything else you want it to.

That's precisely my point. It's symbolism. It could mean various things, but my problem is with the people who think it was a real event involving Zant killing Ganon, which is a great pile of rubbish piled on top of an ancient burial ground. Where they buried rubbish.

Sentient, I believe it means a similar thing, it basically just symbolises Zant's death. If we didn't see that image, the player would be wondering 'but what about Zant?', yet that image shows us that Zant is defeated at the same time as Ganon, because Ganon's death means he will not be reborn as he hoped.

[Arturo]

We don't see where the chamber is though.

But we see the sky from the window, as we did in Ganny's chamber. It is the only place where you can't see any castle towers.

[Fyxe]

But we see the sky from the window, as we did in Ganny's chamber. It is the only place where you can't see any castle towers.

Hm, good point.

Well, I'd expect he rearranged the main room of the castle at least. Unless they expected everyone to travel by Clawshot. o.o

[Showsni]

Hm, good point.

Well, I'd expect he rearranged the main room of the castle at least. Unless they expected everyone to travel by Clawshot. o.o

Naturally. Like every single temple in Zelda...
(I.e. getting around any temple is clearly much too complex for what a temple's supposedly for).

[Fyxe]

Ah, but they're dungeons as well as temples, and ruins also, and everyone knows that dungeons and ruins HAVE to be rediculously difficult to get through, otherwise they can't be classified as real labyrinths.

[SOAP]

Didn't one of the old games say that the temples were purposely designed the way they are to keep out evil? I think the Castle was rearranged by Ganon's magic though. Same with a the TWW Castle to a lesser degree. We see many towers and rooms from the outside but none of them are accessible from the main hall, which has plenty of spaces for for doors and such.