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#61 Ransom

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 05:07 AM

I didn't find Captain Falcon or Jigglypoof (yes, the "poof" was intentional) to be broken characters, but I did find this to be the case for Falco. I've not yet tried my favorite pair of Ice Climbers on the mutant bird, but other wise I think Falco's attacks are WAY too fast; this makes him cheap. Very cheap.

Fox was faster than falco? much faster.

Samus = cheap. Lon range punishment that even I have trouble getting around... but then again, I've only seen one person who hides in the corner of a level and fires missiles at everyone, so I wouldn't know.

Samus is probably the best character in melee. She's got a killer regular B move, A long range grab, and heaps of devastating long range attacks, but you can still own fighting up close.
kindve like link... but better and faster.

#62 Splash

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 11:50 AM

One of the best players I've ever seen in action used Ice Climbers.
I'm not the kind of person who will call a character cheap just because I suck against it. Ice Climbers are not cheap in the least, but man, they're quite formidable when you find someone who knows what they're doin' with 'em.

#63 Lagelace

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 12:04 PM

So far I haven't met many people who do know what they are doing with them. I know I don't.

#64 Flint

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Posted 03 March 2007 - 09:55 PM

they're quite formidable when you find someone who knows what they're doin' with 'em

The same can be said for all characters. That's one of the great things about the Smash Brothers games that separates it from most other fighting games. There is no "good" or "best" character. It all comes down to who you're good at using and how well you know your opponent.

#65 Lagelace

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Posted 03 March 2007 - 10:10 PM

I agree. There may be some slightly broken characters, but when it comes down to it, the players skill is what wins it.

#66 SnowsilverKat

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Posted 03 March 2007 - 10:11 PM

I have a friend who is very, very good at Smash Brothers Melee.

I have another friend who is insanely good at Smash Brothers Melee.

They got into a wager that if the latter could beat the former when the former was playing his best character (Fox) and the latter was playing Pichu, he'd swear off of Smash Brothers Melee.

...the former doesn't play the game very much anymore.

Just goes to show that it is in the use of a character's strengths and weaknesses on certain levels and with clever use of items that can really sway some matches.
I'm also an advocate of using items and randomizing levels, two things I disagree with in more formal tournaments. I mean, some characters are just at an advantage when you use a small flat stage like Final Destination.

#67 Fyxe

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Posted 03 March 2007 - 10:21 PM

No, i'm referring to the people going OMGGGGGGGGGGGGG PITT IS SO DREAMY ^O^;;; SUPER KAWAII DESUUUUU I CANT WAIT TO PLAY AS THAT BISHY!!!!11111

Yep, you're mainly referring to me, we know. Except I never said anything in Japanese.

I'm sorry, but Pit IS hot and cute. And you know what? I don't care. He is. 'Get over it?', or something? Anyway, guess who my favourite character in Melee is? Roy. So I don't care if Pit looks similar to Roy. He has wings, and a bow, and twin swords. He's even cooler than Roy.

However, Flint, I DO agree with you, there's no best character. Thankfully another person who doesn't give a damn about that silly 'tier' thing.

But, if there's no best character, then Pit won't suck. I've seen enough of him in action to know that he looks very enjoyable to play as. And that's enough. It's not all looks and cuteness. I really do genuinely think he looks fun to play as. His fighting style looks akin to Talim in Soul Calibur II. Um, except with a bow and wings, of course.

#68 Flint

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Posted 03 March 2007 - 10:51 PM

Yep, you're mainly referring to me, we know. Except I never said anything in Japanese.

I was paraphrasing, and you are not the only person with that attitude.

#69 Fyxe

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Posted 03 March 2007 - 11:00 PM

I was paraphrasing, and you are not the only person with that attitude.

Okay, true, there are a few, and I kind of do it to be purposefully annoying.

AND IT WORKED.

I win. No, I really do know I'm being over the top when I do it. It's, um, postmodern, you see. o.o But I do like Pit. I am a genuine Kid Icarus fan.

#70 DarkJuno

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Posted 03 March 2007 - 11:25 PM

It's one thing to eagerly anticipate Pit in the game due to loving Kid Icarus on the NES and him never once being used since then. I can't speak for Flint, but what annoys me are all the people going around and talking about how awesome he'll be despite the fact that we have no clue on how he'll actually play besides a few videos here and there. This sort of thing happends with every fighting game out there, true, but it's annoyed me to no end since people began to tout how awesome Akuma or Reptile would be.

#71 Captain Jack Sparrow

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 02:31 AM

Godzilla!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In super smash bros...

PWNAGE!!!!!

#72 Goose

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 06:45 AM

I would like to see a tokyo level, but other than that, he'd be too bulky to be of any use. Bowzer would destroy him.

#73 Arturo

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 01:01 PM

My characters:

SSB: Pikachu, without any doubts

SSB:M Zelda/Sheik and Ganondorf. And sometimes Pikachu

#74 Flint

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 06:18 PM

Okay, true, there are a few, and I kind of do it to be purposefully annoying.

AND IT WORKED.

I win. No, I really do know I'm being over the top when I do it. It's, um, postmodern, you see. o.o But I do like Pit. I am a genuine Kid Icarus fan.



It's just that i've grown a very short tolerance level for giddy, wapanese school girls who swoon over every male anime figure and go nuts with the smileys and foreign words and squeal and that sort of crap. I don't mean to just ignorantly lump you into that annoying category, because I like to think that hopefully you're more mature than that, but all I see on these boards as well as other places is people going crazy for Pit just because of how he looks and it's really rediculous. Don't get me wrong, I know lots of guys are ruining perfectly good pants over Zero Suit Samus, but jeez. You know? And also I find it hard to believe so many of these people have actually played Kid Icarus. I know you have and I'm not saying you haven't. But.. Kid Icarus isn't exactly one of those "big" games that people think of when they start talking about Nintendo's history. Mario, DK, Link, Samus, then.... who? some fruity Angel named Pit? Despite what people claim, I think the truth is a majority of people had never even HEARD of Kid Icarus until the announcement of Brawl, or at least when they got a Pit trophy in Melee. I admit to being one of these people.

So i'm sorry if it felt like I was attacking you. Just making a cynical jab at giddy fangirls in general.

And by the way, it's true that the player's skill is what really wins or loses a match. But like it or not, tiers do exist, and they weren't just randomly set. Any genuine Mr. Game & Watch pro can kick the snot out of an average Link player, but some of the characters do have certain traits that make them.. easier (guess that's the word) to use. This could be the range of their basic attacks (a short-armed punch versus a sword slash, for instance) their weight, their reaction time, and speed in general. There are reasons not many people prefer Game & Watch, Pichu, Mewtwo, or Zelda. Link is a higher tier than Young Link. But they're clones, so why is there a difference in their tier? Because Link has greater range and his attacks hit harder. Marth is ranked higher than Roy due to his speed and agility (the power difference between the two isn't substantial enough, at least to hardcore tourney players). So my point is, even though I think tiers are retarded and the "hurrr hurr final destination no items shiek vs falco match" tourney people are douchebags, and that the quality of a character all comes down to how well a person can play as them, it's still possible for a character to have more disadvantages than advantages. For Pit to be a "terrible excuse of a character" he could end up being slow, jerky, short-ranged, or something like that. A character nobody plays unless they're a horny fourteen-year-old girl. Sure, if you're really good with Pit, he could still be formidable. But i'm hoping for him to be a general embarassment, just to spite the people who already say he'll be the best ever.

#75 Fyxe

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 07:50 PM

It's just that i've grown a very short tolerance level for giddy, wapanese school girls who swoon over every male anime figure and go nuts with the smileys and foreign words and squeal and that sort of crap. I don't mean to just ignorantly lump you into that annoying category, because I like to think that hopefully you're more mature than that, but all I see on these boards as well as other places is people going crazy for Pit just because of how he looks and it's really rediculous.

No, you have an entirely fair point, and I can see why you would feel the need to have a go at Pit fans as a result. On the other foot, I could find it annoying. Like, for example, if it was a bunch of people going loopy about, um... I dunno. Naruto or something.
Except he's not slightly hot, so a bad example, but anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I know lots of guys are ruining perfectly good pants over Zero Suit Samus, but jeez. You know? And also I find it hard to believe so many of these people have actually played Kid Icarus. I know you have and I'm not saying you haven't. But.. Kid Icarus isn't exactly one of those "big" games that people think of when they start talking about Nintendo's history. Mario, DK, Link, Samus, then.... who? some fruity Angel named Pit? Despite what people claim, I think the truth is a majority of people had never even HEARD of Kid Icarus until the announcement of Brawl, or at least when they got a Pit trophy in Melee. I admit to being one of these people.

Okay, you're right, a lot of them probably haven't, but I think Pit is actually better known than that. While it's true that Melee introduced me to Fire Emblem, hence my love for the series now, I knew about Kid Icarus for a good while before that. There was always talk of him appearing in Melee, and so people are genuinely pleased to see him in Brawl. And also, it's stunning how he actually looks cool. He's no longer a 'fruity Angel' that he originally was, now he's a cool Greek hero who rivals Link in style. You have to give the designers some credit. C'mon! The little halos on his arms actually turn into the light arrows for his bow. Nice touch.

As a side note, even if people haven't heard of him before, does that necessarily give them less reason to be excited? He's something new and interesting to them, like Marth and Roy were. And if he resonates with what they want from a character, that's pretty good going. In fact, I'd argue that a lot of the fuss about him is that he *is* so new. The other characters we all know from recent games, Pit is either entirely new to a person, or so old that this incarnation essentially *is* new.

I'm surprised people aren't making more fuss about Snake, mind.

So i'm sorry if it felt like I was attacking you. Just making a cynical jab at giddy fangirls in general.

Which I have no problem with whatsoever. I'm exactly the same. I mean, for god's sake, PROFESSOR SNAPE IS NOT SEXY. Ew. Nobody's sexy in Harry Potter.

And by the way, it's true that the player's skill is what really wins or loses a match. But like it or not, tiers do exist, and they weren't just randomly set. Any genuine Mr. Game & Watch pro can kick the snot out of an average Link player, but some of the characters do have certain traits that make them.. easier (guess that's the word) to use. This could be the range of their basic attacks (a short-armed punch versus a sword slash, for instance) their weight, their reaction time, and speed in general. There are reasons not many people prefer Game & Watch, Pichu, Mewtwo, or Zelda. Link is a higher tier than Young Link. But they're clones, so why is there a difference in their tier? Because Link has greater range and his attacks hit harder. Marth is ranked higher than Roy due to his speed and agility (the power difference between the two isn't substantial enough, at least to hardcore tourney players).

No, you're right, to some extent, tiers 'exist', but they seem to be based primarily around speed and agility. Traits that are effective on stages like Final Destination, but are less important on others. Not only that, but tiers also seem to be linked to 'who is easiest to use'. I don't think tiers are substatial enough in a game like Melee to make an ounce of difference in most normal fights. People seem to put too much emphasis on some traits but not on others.

A character nobody plays unless they're a horny fourteen-year-old girl. Sure, if you're really good with Pit, he could still be formidable. But i'm hoping for him to be a general embarassment, just to spite the people who already say he'll be the best ever.

I don't think he'll be the best ever. I think he will be very enjoyable to play and will be just as balanced as most other characters. I don't want him to be an embarassment, because he's Pit. He deserves to be a classy character to play.

#76 Splash

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 11:40 AM

Those posts are way too huge for a thread about the Super Smash Bros. series.

Wapanese people suck.
Some characters are considered "better" than others, hence the tiers.
However, each character has the potential to be as good as any other one (with practice).

Bing, bang, boom.

#77 Splash

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 01:41 PM

Sorry to double post, but;

http://www.thetanook...ns-and-desires/
^ updated information on characters in SSBB ^

Spoiler : click to show/hide
I like that they're replacing Young Link with Windwaker Link, but why take out Ice Climbers and Mr. Game and Watch? Oh, well... at least the new addition of Ridley is almost guaranteed to kick ass.

Edited by Splash, 05 March 2007 - 01:42 PM.


#78 SL the Pyro

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 02:02 PM

So far I haven't met many people who do know what they are doing with them (Ice Climbers). I know I don't.

Hehehe, I do! I know a lot of tricks with the Ice Climbers. I'll post a few because I'm feeling generous:

1) You need both Ice Climbers for this. Jump into the air and use your Down + B special move (Blizzard). Instead of Popo and Nana facing different directions, they'll both blow frigid air forwards. Good for dealing a lot of damage quick if you have a nice follow-up (Forward Smash works great).
2) Again, you need both Ice Climbers for this. Grab someone and press A repeatedly; the Ice Climber who grabbed the enemy will headbutt him/her, while the other climber will bash him/her with his/her hammer. Then throw them after a bit. A nice way to irritate your enemy and do some nice damage.
3) This should only happen if you are either separated from the CPU-controlled Ice Climber far enough, or if the CPU-Ice Climber has been KO'd. If you get sent away from the edge and try to get back up, DO NOT USE UP + B (Belay)! Use Forward + B (Hammer Spin) instead, and do it IMMEDIATELY after you've maxed out your second jump; this gives you a bit of a boost. Be careful, though; you can't grab edges while using the Hammer Spin (which is why you use the move right away, so that you might be able to grab the edge after the move finishes), so make sure you're high enough into the air before attempting it. If you can grab the edge initially without doing the attack, do so. If you are too far away, use the Hammer Spin to get closer and try grabbing the edge while you are in free fall.
4) Try getting doubles of the same item. Projectile and Clobbering weapons (and sometimes even jumping with Screw Attacks) work wonders. A word of advice; don't try to get double Super Mushrooms unless you're feeling confident; when one Ice Climber grows big, he/she tend to take the extra mushroom(s), so make sure that he/she is well enough out of the way and that the smaller Ice Climber is able to get the mushroom afterwards.

EDIT: *reads Splash's spoiler*
...
...
...
THEY'RE GETTING RID OF THE ICE CLIMBERS!?!?!?!?!? NOONONONONONONONONONONOO! :deadlink:

Edited by Shadow_Link, 26 April 2007 - 09:18 AM.


#79 Fyxe

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 03:03 PM

Splash, Shadow_Link, that rumour is old and entirely made up.

#80 Splash

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 04:32 PM

We don't know for a fact until it comes out, I guess.

#81 Fyxe

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 05:20 PM

No, we know that rumour is false, because it's been around for ages and is entirely baseless. It's utterly wrong. Elements of it might turn out to be correct, but other than that, it's wrong.

Trust me. XP The only information we'd get is straight from Nintendo, and trust me, they've never said anything like that.

Heck, check the article. It even states itself that it was a just a baseless rumour.

#82 SL the Pyro

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 07:37 PM

*sigh of relief* *knocks Splash upside the head* Don't freak me out like that ever again!

I at least hope the Ridley aspect of the rumor is true...

#83 Lagelace

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 08:01 PM

I wants it... the BRAWL!h

#84 Flint

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 08:02 PM

You actually thought Ridley would be a playable character? That would be like playing as Giga Bowser.

Also, "Link from Wind Waker" would just be a retarded character decision.

#85 Keen

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 08:41 PM

If you want canon at this point, Nintendo's website should be the place to go. Anything else is... dubious.

#86 Splash

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 09:37 PM

Hey, I didn't say it was fact. x_o Hell, for all we know that site could be completely true! Windwaker Link makes sense, anyway, and I could see why they would take out Game and Watch...
I'm just curious if the revived rumor of a Sonic character is going to surface again.

#87 Keen

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 09:44 PM

I think they should not remove any characters, but they ought to change a few and make a few into costumes. I'm looking at you, Dr. Mario.

#88 Splash

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 10:49 AM

They should make a Tetris piece a playable character.

#89 SL the Pyro

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 10:56 AM

They should make a Tetris piece a playable character.

Splash... where the HELL did that come from? O_o

Or better yet, a Tetris STAGE. Smashers would have to make their way through the blocks while pounding each other before getting flattened, resulting in (probably) 30% damage and being teleported back to the top.

Edited by Shadow_Link, 06 March 2007 - 10:57 AM.


#90 Splash

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 11:06 AM

Where didn't it come from?

Also, yes, that would kick ass.
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