113 replies to this topic

[Vertiboy]

This is Onox.

http://upload.wikime...n/d/d1/Onox.gif

This is Zant. (Not the best picture.)

http://upload.wikime...wilightking.jpg

This is Veran.

http://upload.wikime.../0/0f/Veran.gif

This is Midna. (Not the best picture.)

http://upload.wikime...dnatrueform.jpg

I'm not 100% sure about this, but doesn't Seasons say that Onox is from a dark realm or something?

Could Onox and Vernan be Twilit?

Edited by Vertiboy, 03 February 2007 - 11:14 PM.

[joeymartin64]

"I was summoned from the Dark Realm by Twinrova!"

This occurred to me a while ago, but I never got around to bringing it up. It's very possible there's some sort of connection, as terms for realms have been known to shift around a little. Thing is, I highly doubt the Oracle era or characters will ever be mentioned again, so it wouldn't affect much. It's a shame, too, since that would make a really nifty connection.

[MikePetersSucks]

Except the OOX Baddies clearly aren't Twili, in appearance or ability, and it's not even a possibility for the Dark Realm and the Twilight Realm to be connected if you place the Oracle games post-TP. But regardless of all that, the Dark Realm they're referring to might be some miscellanious Hell-like plane or something.

[Crazy Penguin]

A while ago someone (I forget who, sorry!) confirmed that in the Japanese version the term used for "Dark Realm" is the same term used for the Dark Wold/Evil Realm in A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time and Four Swords Adventures (the GBA screen thingy, not the level in the forest).

I think someone also pointed out that Veran and Onox wear Gerudo symbols.

[Fyxe]

Onox at least definitely has the 'new' Gerudo symbol (not the old moon one from the old editions of OoT) on his armour. His armour is also extremely similar to the Iron Knuckles from OoT.




Veran, oddly, has what appears to be a deformed vesion of the Sheikah symbol.

Edited by Fyxe, 04 February 2007 - 09:07 AM.

[Duke Serkol]

Veran has that symbol for her association with Shadow Magic (but she -could- also be an evil Sheikah descendant)

Also like Onox she has the new Gerudo symbol on her shoulders. I think they both wear it because of their servitude to Twinrova, not because they are Gerudo themselves.

[Fyxe]

Oh yes, it is on her shoulders, I didn't notice.

And yes, their human outfits (or even their very forms) were probably given to them by Twinrova. Obviously Onox certainly can't be a Gerudo, and frankly, neither of them can, as they're both monsters.

[FDL]

Yeah, I was thinking that they may come from something like the Underworld mentioned in AoL. Someone where demons and ghosts reside in. It's possibly the Underworld of LoZ, the Dark Realm of OoT/ALttP, or the Twilight Realm.

[Fyxe]

THE UNDERWORLD OF TLOZ IS LITERALLY UNDERGROUND. Just like the 'underworld' in Super Mario Bros. Why do people never understand this?

The underworld in Zelda II is 'makai', meaning the same sort of thing as hell, or a realm of demons. However, this word is also used sometimes for the Dark World, I believe.

The Dark Realm in the Oracles is exactly the same word used for the Dark World. They are one and the same thing.

Edited by Fyxe, 04 February 2007 - 12:37 PM.

[Arturo]

Makai was the term used for Evil Realm in OoT, except for one time, where Zelda uses Yami no Sekai

[FDL]

THE UNDERWORLD OF TLOZ IS LITERALLY UNDERGROUND. Just like the 'underworld' in Super Mario Bros. Why do people never understand this?

It's still crawling with monsters, though. I don't even think it is where Onox and Veran are from, it's more likely something from AoL/ALttP/OoT.

[joeymartin64]

A while ago someone (I forget who, sorry!) confirmed that in the Japanese version the term used for "Dark Realm" is the same term used for the Dark Wold/Evil Realm in A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time and Four Swords Adventures (the GBA screen thingy, not the level in the forest).

Eh, yeah, that kind of puts a damper on things. Still, it's a bit curious that Zant's armor (the helmet especially) would resemble Onox's so closely, or that Midna's skin color would be the same as Veran's. Even so, the Dark Realm being confirmed to be the Evil Realm destroys any connection quite handily. So why the similarities? A not-so-subtle nod? Coincidence? Unfortunately, nothing will probably ever come of it.

[coinilius]

Eh, yeah, that kind of puts a damper on things. Still, it's a bit curious that Zant's armor (the helmet especially) would resemble Onox's so closely, or that Midna's skin color would be the same as Veran's. Even so, the Dark Realm being confirmed to be the Evil Realm destroys any connection quite handily. So why the similarities? A not-so-subtle nod? Coincidence? Unfortunately, nothing will probably ever come of it.

Veran has the same hair colour, eye colour and lipstick colour as Midna as well.

[Vertiboy]

Doesn't Twilight Princess refer to the Twilight Realm as some kind of dark realm or something?

[joeymartin64]

It does. A "realm of shadows" or even "darkness" at one point, I think. However, the nail in the coffin is that the Japanese terminology for the Dark Realm is the same as it is for the Dark World/Evil Realm.

As an aside, does anybody know what the Japanese term is for the Twilight Realm?

[Vertiboy]

It does. A "realm of shadows" or even "darkness" at one point, I think. However, the nail in the coffin is that the Japanese terminology for the Dark Realm is the same as it is for the Dark World/Evil Realm.

As an aside, does anybody know what the Japanese term is for the Twilight Realm?

That's what I was curious about. Perhaps in the Japanese version, the Twilight Realm is referred to with the same word used for dark realm or something.

[Duke Serkol]

Obviously Onox certainly can't be a Gerudo, and frankly, neither of them can, as they're both monsters.

Can we tell for sure about Veran? I mean sure, she turns into a monster (or several, actually), but Ganondorf does too.
With Onox it's easy since he himself states he is really a dragon... but Veran doesn't state which is her true form, does she? (All the more since she'd have to pick one out of many )

Oh and Fyxe, did you get my PM?

Edited by Duke Serkol, 04 February 2007 - 09:59 PM.

[coinilius]

The Mirror of Twilight is 陰りの鏡 (Mirror of Shade) in Japanese - with the meaning of shade in question being: shadow or cloud (e.g. on someone's happiness); shade; gloom

Going by the japanese wiki entry for TP, the name of the Twilight Realm in Japan is: 影の世界「トワイライト」 World of Shadow "Twilight"

[D~N]

Could "shade" have anything to do with The Hero's Shade from TP?

[coinilius]

Could "shade" have anything to do with The Hero's Shade from TP?

The wiki article only has that character listed under 'wolf of gold' that I have been able to find.

[joeymartin64]

"World of Shadow?" "Kage no sekai?" Or, on the offchance that it's "yami no sekai," that could seriously change things. It's not unheard of for that translation to be done like that, since the Shadow Temple was "yami no shinden" in the Japanese version of OoT.

[coinilius]

"World of Shadow?" "Kage no sekai?" Or, on the offchance that it's "yami no sekai," that could seriously change things. It's not unheard of for that translation to be done like that, since the Shadow Temple was "yami no shinden" in the Japanese version of OoT.

No, it's not yami... It's shadou.

The wiki article also seems to accept the split timeline theory...

シリーズのつながりは、『時のオカリナ』でガノンドロフを倒したリンクが戻ってくる時代から百数年後の世界という設定で、『風のタクト』とはパラレルワールドとなっている[1]。

The being connected of the series, 'with the setting, world of over hundred years later from the times when the link which pushes down [ganondorf] with the ocarina of the time' returns, 'the takt of the wind ' has become the parallel world, [ 1 ].

Edited by coinilius, 04 February 2007 - 11:11 PM.

[joeymartin64]

Shadou? It's written as a loanword? Or is there a Japanese word for "shadow" that happens to sound like that?

Eck, someone who actually knows Japanese (unlike me) take over on this one.

[coinilius]

Shadou? It's written as a loanword? Or is there a Japanese word for "shadow" that happens to sound like that?

Eck, someone who actually knows Japanese (unlike me) take over on this one.

Unless I'm mistaken, it's a loanword... 影 = shadou/shadow. 影の世界 was how it was written in the wiki article. They also call it by just 'twilight world' ( トワイライト世界) as well.

Edited by coinilius, 04 February 2007 - 11:35 PM.

[Fyxe]

Can we tell for sure about Veran? I mean sure, she turns into a monster (or several, actually), but Ganondorf does too.

The difference is that Ganondorf changes into essentially a completely different being, Ganon, the beast. This is the true form of Ganon (once Ganondorf was corrupted by the Triforce of Power, presumably) but it is not Ganondorf's true form. Ganondorf's true form is a human, always has been.

However, Onox's true form is a dark dragon, and Veran's is shape-shifting bug thingie. Unlike Ganondorf, their monster forms presumably came first.

Think of it like Agahnim compared to Ganon in ALttP. Agahnim is an alter-ego of Ganon, but Ganon's true form is of the pig beast we all recognise.

With Onox it's easy since he himself states he is really a dragon... but Veran doesn't state which is her true form, does she? (All the more since she'd have to pick one out of many )

Well, I can't remember if she says it's her true form, but she seems to suggest it is (and it'd make sense if it was, given that Onox also changed into his true form) but her true form varies. Presumably her true form is the rather odd looking jumping bug, as that's the one she always appears as first. Or her true form is even merely that flat mask-like face. Although she refers to her true form as being hideous, or something like that, so I assume it's the bug.

Could "shade" have anything to do with The Hero's Shade from TP?

The official name for that character is the Hero's Spirit. I'm not sure where the name 'Hero's Shade' is from, but if that's the Japanese name, 'shade' is another word for spirit anyway.

Edited by Fyxe, 05 February 2007 - 09:19 AM.

[FDL]

No, it's not yami... It's shadou.

The wiki article also seems to accept the split timeline theory...
The being connected of the series, 'with the setting, world of over hundred years later from the times when the link which pushes down [ganondorf] with the ocarina of the time' returns, 'the takt of the wind ' has become the parallel world, [ 1 ].

That's interesting, I guess it's saying that TWW is a parallel world to TP? That does appear to be referencing the split. I just wish Aonuma or whoever would straighten out the end of OoT. TWW works pretty easily with the Adult ending, but TP references all aspects of OoT while not linking(no pun intended) together the "ancient hero" and Ganon aside form the fact that they're both mentioned to have owned a piece of the Triforce. But TP never explicitly states who subdued Ganon and what, exactly, makes the ancient hero so revered. However, I'm still pretty sure that the ancient hero is OoT Link, it works best like that. While it may not reference the ending of OoT but it references the rest of OoT quite a bit. I find that interesting, as TWW did the opposite. It referenced the very end of OoT but nothing else.

[Duke Serkol]

she refers to her true form as being hideous, or something like that, so I assume it's the bug.

The line was more or less "I'll make you pay for forcing me to appear in this hideous form!" and it was the pillbug thingy. She doesn't call it her true form, so I'd hold out the verdict on it.

[joeymartin64]

That's interesting, I guess it's saying that TWW is a parallel world to TP? That does appear to be referencing the split. I just wish Aonuma or whoever would straighten out the end of OoT. TWW works pretty easily with the Adult ending, but TP references all aspects of OoT while not linking(no pun intended) together the "ancient hero" and Ganon aside form the fact that they're both mentioned to have owned a piece of the Triforce. But TP never explicitly states who subdued Ganon and what, exactly, makes the ancient hero so revered. However, I'm still pretty sure that the ancient hero is OoT Link, it works best like that. While it may not reference the ending of OoT but it references the rest of OoT quite a bit. I find that interesting, as TWW did the opposite. It referenced the very end of OoT but nothing else.

I would take these translations a little lightly, as they seem to have been done with an online translator.

[Fyxe]

And it's translating Wikipedia. It's hardly a reliable source.

[joeymartin64]

An even better point.

Anyway, Veran's quote is: "I hoped to avoid revealing this vile shape..." Which may or may not mean that it's her true form. But, since Onox's dragon form is his true form (that one's plainly stated,) I would guess that it is. No real confirmation, though.