190 replies to this topic

[SOAP]

Even still, people interepret the Bible differently. Some more literally, others more metaphorically. Some people hold to the teachings but view the stories as just that, nice little stories that help explain God's message. Some people take every little word as accurate scientific and historical truth, despite evidence on the contrary. Some people pick and choose what to believe but in that case where do you draw the line? The Bible says to believe all of it, even the crazy stuff.

While i don't call myself Christian, I do want to believe in God and the Bible and hell I wouldn't mind being called a bible thumper or even going as far as believing the world is literally flat and rain comes down through trapdoors in a very solid sky. But I've been through all every variation of belief, even to that extreme, and never did it make happy. I just became so ignorant and stubborn in my own beliefs that I didn't care if I was unhappy. And I certianly didn't come any closer to God than when I was an athiest. I don't what to beliueve any more. I just go by what I know and I know Christianity never made me happy. Of course, it's no fault of Christianity, right? It never is. It's always because either I'm believing "hard enough" or Satan's plagueing my mind. Yup.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Darn, SOAP, you beat me to the punch... Oh, as for that happiness thing...

"have you considered any of the other major religions? They're all pretty much the same."

Kudos to those who can guess where I came up with that quote!

P.S. AvengerButton, you're right. All those Protestants should be ashamed for breaking away from the Roman Catholic Church.

Edited by Wolf_ODonnell, 20 December 2006 - 11:39 AM.

[TheAvengerLever]

Boo to corruption.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Seriously, Avenger, what did you expect to happen to Christianity when people broke away from a central authority? It's the same reason why atheists don't really have churches and generally do not share the exact same ideals (only the main core concept of "there is no god"). (And have you forgotten the corruption of non-Catholic denominations such as the one in which Ted Haggard used to be in?)

The divisiveness can also be partially traced to condescending attitudes, one of which you may (judging from what I've read so far) be guilty of practising yourself. It's the, "I'm a Christian and you're not a true Christian because you don't believe what I do" attitude. And here we go, back towards the original topic of free ticket to Heaven.

[Fyxe]

It's the same reason why atheists don't really have churches and generally do not share the exact same ideals (only the main core concept of "there is no god").

Last I checked, Atheism isn't an organised religion though. Or a religion full stop.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Last I checked, Atheism isn't an organised religion though. Or a religion full stop.

Well, there's that, and there's also the reason that they don't have a central authority. Frankly, I should have made two examples though, with one of the examples being a political party. Notice how political parties with a weak central authority tend to have members with a wide range of views, compared to more authoritarian political parties?

[TheAvengerLever]

The divisiveness can also be partially traced to condescending attitudes, one of which you may (judging from what I've read so far) be guilty of practising yourself. It's the, "I'm a Christian and you're not a true Christian because you don't believe what I do" attitude.

I don't do that, no. And if I ever made you think I was then I apologize right now.

[SOAP]

The divisiveness can also be partially traced to condescending attitudes, one of which you may (judging from what I've read so far) be guilty of practising yourself. It's the, "I'm a Christian and you're not a true Christian because you don't believe what I do" attitude. And here we go, back towards the original topic of free ticket to Heaven.

That's partially the raeson why I give up on Christianity. It was like no matter how much I tried, I was never a good enough Christian, if such a thing even exists. On the other hand I had other Christians only give me vague and roundabout answers that didn't help me much either. They'd tell me to just hold and hope for the best. Not exactly the most comforting thing to hear in the world. No matter where I turn to, either in the Bible, to my church, or to my Christian friends, no one seems to have the answers.

I grew up in a church and Christinaity is pretty much all I know. I was taught everyone else was Lost, which is a feeling of emptiness that only God could fill. I was also taught that all you need to was repent of your sins and ask Jesus your heart, he will fill you with God's love. That was the difference between being Lost and being Saved. I did those things and was baptized almost a decade ago. I STILL feel empty inside. Is their waiting list until Jesus decides to come into my heart? Did he forget me? Did I not pray hard enough or took salvation serious enough? Did I need to spin aroun three times, sit up, sit down, drink some wine before I'm supposed feel some sort of fuzzy feeling in my heart that something greater than me loves me? Because I don't. Maybe other people do but frankly I still feel more Lost now than I ever did when I first asked to be saved. I still feel empty. So obviously not saved. But I prayed the prayer and still pray every single night as far I can remember and dammit I mean every word of it and yet I still feel empty. So either God just hates me or there is no God. I can possibly try another religion but after studying them they all seem like the same crap all over again just with different cultural customs. I have better chances picky up a nice hobby or whatever. I'm just tired of being lied too and told God loves me. If he did I wouldn't still feel like half a person.

[Fyxe]

I don't know what it's like to be brought up as a Christian, but the purpose of Christianity in my eyes is to give something to those who are *looking* for an answer - not give answers to those within Christianity it who are looking for an answer to the answer.

Feeling like half a person isn't unusual though, SOAP. I think many people do at various times in their lives.

I suggest sex.

...Or you could just make random childish comments like I do to mask my own feelings. Yep.

[SOAP]

Nah I'm trough wearing a mask. I rejoined Christianity because I got tired of wearing the mask of some slutty gay sexoholic. But I was trading one mask for another. I want to be me, the real me and so far I haven't found myself. All I got were a bunch "Gee I dunno's" and half baked theories about why I'm still unhappy. I know it's not uncommon for people feel empty inside but thing is, I was taught only people outside of Christianity feel like that because they're lost and need God in their lives. Well if that's true I never found God in Christianity. I'm begining to believe that we all make up our own gods inside our heads and some of willingly choose to accept that some of them belive in the same god and try to get others to believe the same. But really they don't. That's why no one can agree on what God is or what his will is because they're not the same God. Just a part of of subconciouys that keeps us moral and makes us strive for more spiritual things. I'm never going to become whole following someone elses God.

Edited by SOAP, 20 December 2006 - 08:24 PM.

[spunky-monkey]

I dunno SOAP, but I have heard that Christians get the raw deal in this life and when I say that it's almost as if the entire world is against people having faith in Jesus. You may need to do more instead of worrying about those cryptic force-fed messages in the Bible, at the end of the day your faith and God matter, not a badly translated book.

Try this site out, it might make you feel better and more self-aware again:-

When things get tough

Edited by Ricky, 21 December 2006 - 05:30 AM.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

So either God just hates me or there is no God.

Or alternatively God just doesn't care. Perhaps the greatest hubris is thinking that God would care and/or take interest in what we do.

I can possibly try another religion but after studying them they all seem like the same crap all over again just with different cultural customs.

Really? Buddhism seems different from the other religions to me.

As for that link, Ricky, provided... I don't know about you guys, but I found it rather unhelpful. I clicked on the link for "When inexplicable things happen" and I got a whole page that could have been boiled down to, "Don't worry, God loves you." The rest of it was just as wordy and I think it's pages like those that SOAP was railing against.

What I find worrying is that the only responses to this sort of problem of feeling empty are religious (as far as a Google search showed, anyway), as if religion held all the answers in life. Surely, there are other reasons for feeling empty other than "religious" reasons?

Perhaps, SOAP, your feeling of emptiness is a result of not having that one person in life whom you could depend on? That one person whom you'd want to spend your entire life with? If religion doesn't work, have you tried distracting yourself away from the feeling of emptiness with friends? If it is because of not finding that Mr./Mrs. Right then the best bet is to try looking, but distract yourself from the feeling of emptiness in the meantime. That's what I do.

[SOAP]

Buddhism seems more like a spiritual lifestle than an organized religion. Other people have suggested it. I might take it up. But I dunno. I think I might become Nitchean (spelling?). Those guys speak it like it is.

But anyways, enough about me. I didn't mean to hog the thread like that. This is just something I've had held in so long it just kinda bursted out on me like that last night. I don't deny that maybe religion does bring other people happiness. But it doesn't for me. But hey, I'm just one person. Maybe I'm crazy or something. LOL.

Thanks all y'all who pmed me and gave me support.

Edited by SOAP, 21 December 2006 - 11:10 AM.

[Flint]

In paradise God gave us one command, not ten or two golden rules, just ONE and we couldn't even follow that one. We're to blame for deliberately cutting ourselves off from our God and being ashamed. God cannot have communion with those that sin.

Excuse me, but I have never been to the Garden of Eden. And neither have you or anybody else. None of us ate any forbidden fruit.

It's not our fault we're more intelligent than the first two attempts God made to create humans. He wanted to create us in his image yet failed to grant us his omnipotent view of right and wrong. He also gave us an apetite. Your God is just as fallible as Zeus. And for such a just and loving God, he sure does carry one hell of a stubborn grudge.

Also!

First it is claimed that, because of Adam and Eve, all humans are born sinful, evil creatures.

Then it is claimed that children are pure and innocent and can go to heaven no matter what.

Explain this contradiction.

Edited by Flint, 21 December 2006 - 12:11 PM.

[spunky-monkey]

Ugh...I said it MIGHT help wolf. I personally don't believe it does anything but was hopeful that someone here might find it useful.

Explain this contradiction.

To be honest, I couldn't even give a damn right now Flint. Ask someone who does care about Heaven and Hell.

[Nevermind]

Simple: People are born innocent but with a sinful nature.

Oh noes! Contradiction disbanded!

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Simple: People are born innocent but with a sinful nature.

Oh noes! Contradiction disbanded!

Surely, the contradiction still stands. If they're of a sinful nature, they wouldn't be doing innocent things?

[Nevermind]

Having the ability to do something does not constitute doing something.

[Fyxe]

Nature has a sinful nature.

Deal, Dealy McDealson.

Besides, born with a sinful nature doesn't equal sinful person. Do you go to hell for your nature or your actions?

[SOAP]

Having the ability to do something does not constitute doing something.

So if a person does nothing sinful their whole life, even though they still have a sinful nature, then shouldn't they go to Heaven same as a child regardless if they're "saved" or not?

[Nevermind]

Exactly. It is pretty much the exact same idea of humanity that a cynic holds; people can be inherently good or inherently bad, they just usually choose to be bad. Nature vs Actions though is a difficult one. A bad nature is never okay, but as far as bad actions go, those are contextual.


That's pretty much right, SOAP. As I've said a million times over, SDA's have the best idea with "God weighs the heart". Although, it depends on what you see as "being saved". I mean, if they don't want anything to do with God, then there's no point in Him taking them in when all is said and done, I guess.

Edited by Lazurukeel, 21 December 2006 - 10:58 PM.

[SOAP]

That's pretty much right, SOAP. As I've said a million times over, SDA's have the best idea with "God weighs the heart". Although, it depends on what you see as "being saved". I mean, if they don't want anything to do with God, then there's no point in Him taking them in when all is said and done, I guess.

Which is why I used it quotes. Everyone has their own ideas about what salvation is and even not all Christians got it pegged down. I certianly don't. But what makes you think they want nothing to do with God? Most people know of God. Doesn't mean they know how to reach him with so many diverse religions and variations of religions pulling them in different directions. Feels almost like you're a human yo-yo. If I was the average person I'd stay clear of anything remotely religious like the Black Plague.

[Nevermind]

I'm talking about the ones that go "God doesn't exist", "it's all bullshit", "your God is terrible" and then go "well....why aren't I going to heaven then?"

[MikePetersSucks]

Most of those people don't believe in Heaven anyway.

[SOAP]

I'm talking about the ones that go "God doesn't exist", "it's all bullshit", "your God is terrible" and then go "well....why aren't I going to heaven then?"

How many say that about God and not just what so many different religions claim God is. On contrary a majority of people believe in some sort of "higher Being: so it's not like the ideal of God is bullshit to them. It just the constant bickering between different faiths all claiming to be the one true way that get most people turned off.

Edited by SOAP, 22 December 2006 - 12:35 AM.

[Nevermind]

Then they should stop waiting for someone to tell them what is right, and figure it out for themselves. Do their own research. If there are so many of them, check em all out and see which one THEY think is right, if they are that interested in it.


MPS, if they don't believe in Heaven, then what is the point of them arguing against those that do? Constantly telling them that God doesn't exist and all that jazz. They don't think it's real, so why should they care?

[SOAP]

Some people do their own research. It doesn't always lead to Christianity though.

[Nevermind]

That is their choice to make. I did my own research and I am starting to find [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of similarities between all, if not most, of the religions and what ideals they are MEANT to uphold. You'd be surprised how easily you can meld them together as different interpretations of the same thing.

[SOAP]

And you'd be surprised how people researching the same things can come to very different conclusions. I used to believe that. But just because they have simmilar beliefs doesn't mean they come from the same god. So many religions may have very simmilar teachings but that's because most humans can agree on the most basic morals. People aren't that dumb. You don't need to be religious to know killing is bad. Any religion that'd teach otherwise wouldn't hold very long. I go back to my point earlier taht I think we, as individuals, create own gods taht are uniquely ours. That part of our psyche that tells us to do good and not bad even though what's bad seems more desirable. Some interpret as being the same god as others. Some people interpret it as a guardian angel. Some people interepret as just their concious. Some people interpret as the souls of billions of tiny dead aliens trying to drive them insane. Whatever floats their boat. But my research has lead me to believe that God is as multiple and diverse as the humans that believe in him/her/it/they. No two indivduals have the same god, no matter how simmilar their beliefs are. If they did, God wouldn't be telling them different things.

Edited by SOAP, 22 December 2006 - 01:51 AM.

[Nevermind]

Just depends on whether you find the ideals or the specific god the more important element.