79 replies to this topic

[jman]

That was DC, and besides it just complicated things further.

No it wasn't, I have an interview with the guy that created Xmen, he talks about Earth 616, it wasn't DC. Dc makes superman and batman and wonder woman etc.
Go to marvel.com and you'll see. The whole basis for those stories is different realities. Occassionally characters cross over but not that often. FYI: Marvel had the 'what if' because I have one called "what if the Hulk killed Spiderman?", they are both Marvel, not DC.
Who cares if it complicates things, they have stated that Earth 616 is the only 'canon' string of events in their creations, anything else are alternate realities.

When did DBZ do it?

The Androids saga, future Trunks came back into the past to save his friends which he then realized was an alternate reality, because when he went back to his time, his world had nt changed. They even had a DBZ movie called History of Trunks which is about him going back in time to that alternate reality to save his friends. So you see, in the original DBZ timeline everybody died... Yet Trunks going back to a different reality was able to save those people (in the different reality to his) from the Androids and the story continued there. This means all the characters die, but in a different reality they live on.

[jman]

Theres all this talk about the seal transcending time. If you look at ALTTP's manual it states that the King ordered 7 sages to seal the sacred realm. I don't think the seal transcends time neccesarily, but Ganon has to have the TOP in the child timeline because Link has the TOC in the end sequence in the garden with Zelda.
Also for those that doubt the split, the ALTTP manual states that "the seal was thought to last for eternity..." i.e. What the hell else could they be speaking about but OOT's seal?

[Raien]

Also for those that doubt the split, the ALTTP manual states that "the seal was thought to last for eternity..." i.e. What the hell else could they be speaking about but OOT's seal?

The Sages in TP said the seal was meant to last for eternity but it wasn't strong enough.

[TheAvengerLever]

Jman, I know you don't do it [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] but please don't double post. If you have something to add edit your first post. I'm stepping beyong my boundaries by saying this but oh well.

[jman]

Jman, I know you don't do it [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] but please don't double post. If you have something to add edit your first post. I'm stepping beyong my boundaries by saying this but oh well.

Didn't know there was a rule against DP.

There is an alternative reading to the OOT ending and it goes along with the intro to MM, where Link and Zelda are in the garden. The only difference is that in MM, Epona is there and Link rides off on her after Zelda gives him the oot.
What I'm saying is the ending sequence of OOT where Link has the tOC maybe the same sequence as the intro to MM where he leaves Hyrule i.e. maybe some time passed between when Link was sent back and between when he left. In this time gap the king may have ordered the sages to form the seal (assuming the original doesn't transcend time) and thus Ganondorf was resealed. Ganon would still get the TOP, but the triforce would split anyway and he wouldn't be able to attack Hyrule because he'd be stuck in the SR, only to break the seal centuries later in ALTTP.

[LionHarted]

The Sages in TP said the seal was meant to last for eternity but it wasn't strong enough.

So they banished Ganondorf to the Twilight instead. Again, where is it said that the seal was broken?

[Raien]

So they banished Ganondorf to the Twilight instead. Again, where is it said that the seal was broken?

If the seal still worked then why did the TP Sages apologise that it didn't last forever? According to you, the seal lasted until it was broken in ALTTP. Why apologise for the seal failing when it didn't fail at all?

Edited by jhurvid, 18 November 2006 - 08:43 AM.

[LionHarted]

If the seal still worked then why did the TP Sages apologise that it didn't last forever? According to you, the seal lasted until it was broken in ALTTP. Why apologise for the seal failing when it didn't fail at all?

"We didn't make the seal strong enough" =/= "the seal broke."

Again, Ganondorf was sent to the Twilight [possibly because the seal on the Sacred Realm wasn't strong enough--it'd be like moving a prisoner from a secure prison to an even more secure prison], which we know is merging with Hyrule because of Zant. This would give Ganondorf a way into Hyrule (if the seal was broken already, why didn't he escape a long time ago?). They may be apologizing for this--they didn't make the seal strong enough, and their course of action to attempt to remedy this allowed him to escape.

Edited by LionHarted, 18 November 2006 - 09:23 AM.

[Raien]

"We didn't make the seal strong enough" =/= "the seal broke."

Again, Ganondorf was sent to the Twilight [possibly because the seal on the Sacred Realm wasn't strong enough--it'd be like moving a prisoner from a secure prison to an even more secure prison], which we know is merging with Hyrule because of Zant. This would give Ganondorf a way into Hyrule (if the seal was broken already, why didn't he escape a long time ago?). They may be apologizing for this--they didn't make the seal strong enough, and their course of action to attempt to remedy this allowed him to escape.

I want to play the game before discussing this any longer. It is apparent though that if the seal wasn't strong enough to reliably hold Ganondorf with just the Triforce of Power then it shouldn't have held his more powerful form in ALTTP for centuries, should it?

[LionHarted]

I want to play the game before discussing this any longer. It is apparent though that if the seal wasn't strong enough to reliably hold Ganondorf with just the Triforce of Power then it shouldn't have held his more powerful form in ALTTP for centuries, should it?

Did it? If OoT=SW, and the timeline is linear, then ALttP Ganon could have been in the Realm for any duration after he rediscovered it, from days to months to years to centuries. We frankly wouldn't then know, because the legends refer to the SW, not to the rediscovery. There would be no legends surrounding Ganon's rediscovery of the Realm--he would have entered, and he would have already been trapped by the still-intact Sages' seal. No war. No legend.

Edited by LionHarted, 18 November 2006 - 10:01 AM.

[jman]

Did it? If OoT=SW, and the timeline is linear, then ALttP Ganon could have been in the Realm for any duration after he rediscovered it, from days to months to years to centuries. We frankly wouldn't then know, because the legends refer to the SW, not to the rediscovery. There would be no legends surrounding Ganon's rediscovery of the Realm--he would have entered, and he would have already been trapped by the still-intact Sages' seal. No war. No legend.

I've got no idea what you guys are on about any more, cos your spoilers keep coming up as lines and not words. I'm just gunna play TP before I come back on here.

[Doopliss]

Unless the act of creating the seal trascends both timelines

Impossible. When Link returned to the past a different timeline which was identical to the timeline where adult Link beats Ganon was created. The seal doesn't exist in either timeline. Then, the 'new' timeline will develop independently and differently from the 'original' one. One timeline can't affect the other. Each time a paradox occurs, a new timeline is created, but this split doesn't affect the different timelines.

[Arturo]

But the Goddeses are omnipotent, so they can make the seal trascend time. There is no therical problem. It is possible.

[MikePetersSucks]

No, it's not. Because it requires ridiculous leaps in logic. If the seal transcended time, Ganondorf would've been BORN into the Sacred Realm and it would've been already there when the Sages were making it, creating a loop where either it gets stuck in a loop of existing and not existing (The Sages make it, then are about to make it but realize it's already there so they don't, then make it again because they didn't make it and so it's not there, etc.) or it would be infinitely getting stronger forever and ever and ever and ever.

And if it transcended time, then the breaking of the Seal would've negated it's existence so it was never made EVER and Ganondorf was never sealed. It requires so many leaps in logic as to be more retarded than Bush on a Bender.

[LionHarted]

But the Goddeses are omnipotent, so they can make the seal trascend time. There is no therical problem. It is possible.

Goddesses cannot undo logic. The seal cannot be cast if it transcends time, because transcending time means that it never didn't exist.

Each time a paradox occurs, a new timeline is created, but this split doesn't affect the different timelines.

By this logic, there are at least three splits as a result of OoT.

Edited by LionHarted, 20 November 2006 - 08:17 AM.

[Doopliss]

By this logic, there are at least three splits as a result of OoT.

This is only in case that the multiple timelines theory was true. I was just making an assumption to make the discussion easier. I'm not Jumbie.

So deux ex machina, Arturo? It doesn't sound very convicing...

[Arturo]

I never wanted it to be convincing.

It's not my style to say "The goddesses did it".

And yes, it's a deus ex machina, but it's the only theory that explains why Zelda is in the Castle in OoT and why Hyrule is in peace in MM WITHOUT contradicting canon

[CID Farwin]

By this logic, there are at least three splits as a result of OoT.

What?

And yes, it's a deus ex machina, but it's the only theory that explains why Zelda is in the Castle in OoT and why Hyrule is in peace in MM WITHOUT contradicting canon

NOT the only theory.

[MikePetersSucks]

It's as simple as Ganondorf's threat being neutralized, Hyrule being safe, and Zelda being able to go back to the castle by the sheer virtue of Link not tampering with the Sacred Realm. Come on now.