45 replies to this topic

[spunky-monkey]

The biggest problem with this trailer is that it hasn't shown off any of the gameplay, levels or other features that actually make you *want* to buy a game. This content alone is not enough to promote said game.

First, Rare and Rareware are the same thing.

Wow, you can live only a few hours drive from the place and STILL someone on the Internet thinks they know better. The Rareware teams that m-a-d-e up the company are long gone... it's dead as dodo. Everything was sold off and a new business started up consisting of Microsoft hired employees and newbie University graduates who now work there under the name "Rare Ltd" (and it's become a very depressing place indeed).

No, Hero of Winds understands that anything done by Rare is gaming perfection.

You haven't been keeping up with recent events have you? Virtually every game made by Rare Ltd has bombed on the Market. Microsoft bought Rareware so they could *dismantle* it.

Rare is Rareware.

Nope.

[Sety II]

In Banjo you have to stop and prepare one of many very similar attacking moves, and the only one you're likely to use often is the roll, which is clearly the most useful one and most smooth one, but still not as smooth as Mario's dive.

The aerial peck attack was also rather useful....but yeah, thats besides the point.

[Hero of Winds]

Seriously trying to compare Banjo Kazooie to Mario is a no go.....Banjo is a all-round multiplayer but it has nowhere near the tight controls and graphical sharpness of Mario 64. As somebody earlier said Banjo Kazooie is definitely a 'poor mans' Mario. Only thing it has going for it over Mario is its own brand of humour, thats about it otherwise I've always despised the much slower engine and art style.

I like Banjo Kazooie as a game and I'm actually a fan of Banjo Tooie simply because they upped the pace of the game so much more, but its not anything even worth close to "ZOMG BANJO IS BACK!" At its core Banjo Kazooie has always felt like something a University student made as a final year project if he had a actual team thats just passable as a mainstream game.

LMAO

If there's one thing B-K has going for it over SM64, it's superior visuals.

Eh? Sandboxes do have edges.

You either don't understand what I'm talking about or have utterly mutilated the joke.

The biggest problem with this trailer is that it hasn't shown off any of the gameplay, levels or other features that actually make you *want* to buy a game. This content alone is not enough to promote said game.

This is just an announcement, not a full-fledged trailer. It's on the same level as the Halo 3 teaser from E3.

Wow, you can live only a few hours drive from the place and STILL someone on the Internet thinks they know better. The Rareware teams that m-a-d-e up the company are long gone... it's dead as dodo. Everything was sold off and a new business started up consisting of Microsoft hired employees and newbie University graduates who now work there under the name "Rare Ltd" (and it's become a very depressing place indeed).

You haven't been keeping up with recent events have you? Virtually every game made by Rare Ltd has bombed on the Market. Microsoft bought Rareware so they could *dismantle* it.
Nope.

Those two paragraphs alone prove that you have absolutlely no idea what you're talking about.

[Fyxe]

You either don't understand what I'm talking about or have utterly mutilated the joke.

Joke? There was a joke? You're right, I have no idea what you're on about.

Those two paragraphs alone prove that you have absolutlely no idea what you're talking about.

By all means correct him if you're just going to claim he's wrong.

[spunky-monkey]

Sure Banjo Kazooie is better on visuals but that's only because Mario 64 was a launch title. SetyII does have a point though, SM64 is actually graphically sharper than BK.

Those two paragraphs alone prove that you have absolutlely no idea what you're talking about.

Okay... so you're trying to say that I don't live in the UK? I wasn't paying attention to what happened between Nintendo, Stamper Bros & Microsoft? My friends and I aren't bitter about Rareware being liquidated? And that I managed to sneak in a second paragraph somewhere without my own knowledge?

[Hero of Winds]

Joke? There was a joke? You're right, I have no idea what you're on about.

You don't know what sandbox gameplay is?

By all means correct him if you're just going to claim he's wrong.

Shouldn't be too difficult.

Wow, you can live only a few hours drive from the place and STILL someone on the Internet thinks they know better.

Considering how secretive Rare is, it doesn't matter if you live next door to them or live on the opposite side of the world. Your location in proximity to Rare's means absolutely nothing.

The Rareware teams that m-a-d-e up the company are long gone... it's dead as dodo. Everything was sold off and a new business started up consisting of Microsoft hired employees and newbie University graduates who now work there under the name "Rare Ltd" (and it's become a very depressing place indeed).

Complete and utter lies. Though there have been a few people who've left Rare (including Ken Lobb) since MS purchased it, the number of employees who've left has been grossly exaggered, probably by bitter Nintendo fanboys.

And in light of this article, I find it hard to believe that the Rare of yesteryear has ceased to exist. It also dispells any fears people have of 'new Rare' ruining the Banjo series.

You haven't been keeping up with recent events have you? Virtually every game made by Rare Ltd has bombed on the Market.

You're the one who hasn't been keeping up with recent events. Both Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo sold quite well; at the very least, they've done quite the opposite of 'bombing.'

Microsoft bought Rareware so they could *dismantle* it.

So MS spent $375 million so they could take apart a 2nd-party video game company? Do you have any idea how ludicrous the sounds?

[Sety II]

So MS spent $375 million so they could take apart a 2nd-party video game company? Do you have any idea how ludicrous the sounds?

They spent $1.7 Billion to lose $400Million on the XBox do you have any idea how ludicrous it sounds? Oh. Wait. Its true! Oh shi---

[Hero of Winds]

They spent $1.7 Billion to lose $400Million on the XBox do you have any idea how ludicrous it sounds? Oh. Wait. Its true! Oh shi---

The loss of money is acceptable (to MS, anyways) if it means building the foundation for their spot in a $30 billion industry. But spending hundreds of millions of dollars just to take apart a company? What part of that even remotely makes sense?

[Sety II]

The loss of money is acceptable (to MS, anyways) if it means building the foundation for their spot in a $30 billion industry. But spending hundreds of millions of dollars just to take apart a company? What part of that even remotely makes sense?

Ask EA, they did it to just about every company they've purchased and are one of the highest grossing games companies in the world. Changing organisational structures to match your own company is a perfectly viable reason that happens all the time. Secondly this isn't about that, its about the fact Rare are past their prime and only range from cruddy/below average-average nowadays and no higher.

Secondly don't claim others not upto date and Kameo did 'quite well', it did completely bomb selling only around 70k units which is very pathetic in the large picture over the period of 4 months.

The highest selling 360 game period was Call of Duty 3 which even then only reached 250k regions which is just reasonable, so no matter how well PDZ did it can't have been much better or very impressive either.

Edited by Sety II, 02 October 2006 - 02:28 PM.

[spunky-monkey]

Considering how secretive Rare is, it doesn't matter if you live next door to them or live on the opposite side of the world. Your location in proximity to Rare's means absolutely nothing.

Rareware have always been 'media shy', but always had good contacts with UK video gaming magazines. A month never went by without some news article concerning their projects and success story.

Complete and utter lies. Though there have been a few people who've left Rare (including Ken Lobb) since MS purchased it, the number of employees who've left has been grossly exaggered, probably by bitter Nintendo fanboys.And in light of this article, I find it hard to believe that the Rare of yesteryear has ceased to exist. It also dispells any fears people have of 'new Rare' ruining the Banjo series.

The R&D teams starting leaving the company since the Goldeneye days for goodness sake, that article is a load of rubbish. If you buy and replace all the parts for your old shovel does that still make it your old shovel? No, of course not.

The British people were far from thrilled to hear that Rareware would be sold off to software giant Microsoft. Why do you think the ending to Conker's Bad Fur Day, their last N64 title, was so miserable and sad?

You're the one who hasn't been keeping up with recent events. Both Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo sold quite well; at the very least, they've done quite the opposite of 'bombing.'

'Grabbied by the Ghoulies', 'Conker's bad remake' and 'Mr Pants' all performed terribly and PDZ despite being an improvement didn't sell nearly as well as Microsoft would have wanted.

So MS spent $375 million so they could take apart a 2nd-party video game company? Do you have any idea how ludicrous the sounds?

The loss of money is acceptable (to MS, anyways) if it means building the foundation for their spot in a $30 billion industry. But spending hundreds of millions of dollars just to take apart a company? What part of that even remotely makes sense?

This is Microsoft we're talking about now. MICROSOFT. As Sety II just said, £375 million is NOTHING to them.

Edited by Ricky, 02 October 2006 - 03:13 PM.

[Hero of Winds]

Rareware have always been 'media shy', but always had good contacts with UK video gaming magazines. A month never went by without some news article concerning their projects and success story.

That's a lie. UK gaming mags never get those kinds of exclusives and if they do, they would've been all over the Internet before they hit the street.

The R&D teams starting leaving the company since the Goldeneye days for goodness sake, that article is a load of rubbish. If you buy and replace all the parts for your old shovel does that still make it your old shovel? No, of course not.

I provided a source, from Eurogamer (and because of it's location it must know more than the rest of the world about what Rare's up to ), stating the core members of the original Banjo team are still there. If you want to refute that, that's fine, but the fact that you have not provided a source tells me that you're lying yet again.

People have left Rare, but like I said, the number has been grossly exaggerated. And considering that the key members of the Banjo team are still there, I'd say that your argument about Rare being sold off and replaced by MS employees and college grads (which is the biggest amount of bullshit you've posted in this whole thread) is completely without merit.

The British people were far from thrilled to hear that Rareware would be sold off to software giant Microsoft.

The British people as in the people at Rare, or actual British gamers? If it's the former, then that's simply untrue, since Rare was sold to Microsoft. If it's the latter, then what do I care?

Why do you think the ending to Conker's Bad Fur Day, their last N64 title, was so miserable and sad?

Having never played the game, I don't know what you're talking about. I do know, however, that the original ending to the game involved Conker committing suicide, but it was removed. I also know that MS didn't become the majority stock holder for Rare until 18 months after Conker was released.

'Grabbied by the Ghoulies', 'Conker's bad remake' and 'Mr Pants' all performed terribly and PDZ despite being an improvement didn't sell nearly as well as Microsoft would have wanted.

You know what also sold poorly? Jet Force Gemini, Blast Corps, and Conker's Bad Fur Day. Even the original Perfect Dark's sales did not meet Rare's expectations.

This is Microsoft we're talking about now. MICROSOFT. As Sety II just said, £375 million is NOTHING to them.

If you're going to use that argument, then stop. Spending millions of dollars makes sense if it helps secure your position in the industry, but spending millions just to "dismantle" a company? That doesn't make any sense, unless you're using the word "dismantle" in the context that Sety provided.

Edited by Hero of Winds, 02 October 2006 - 05:20 PM.

[Fyxe]

That's a lie. UK gaming mags never get those kinds of exclusives and if they do, they would've been all over the Internet before they hit the street.

You have no idea what you're talking about. It's a fact that the UK magazines got many exclusives, especially back when the internet was fairly slow when it came to gaming news stories. I live in the UK, I know what I'm talking about - there were plenty of exclusives and stuff from Rareware. Nowadays Rare has pretty much died in the UK. Xbox gamers are, lets be honest, generally only interested in Perfect Dark Zero.

You know what also sold poorly? Jet Force Gemini, Blast Corps, and Conker's Bad Fur Day. Even the original Perfect Dark's sales did not meet Rare's expectations.

You have to remember that that was the N64, most games sold fairly poorly, unfortunately for many. However, there is hardly any excuse for selling badly on the Xbox.
Also, four games out of many more games that Rareware used to release. A bit harsh considering that almost *all* of their recent games have sold poorly.

[Veteran]

I seem to remember plenty of Rareware interviews in the gaming mags I used to read back in the day. Rare was the only gaming identity the UK had and was heralded in nearly every issue.

But anyway, regardless of how many original Rareware employees are still employed by Rare Ltd (wikipedia says 80 people at least have left since Conker, but no citation given), the opinionated fact is that Rare Ltd undoubtedly sucks. [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img]. And by that definition Rare Ltd is not Rareware because Rareware didn't suck.



EDIT: Perfect Dark Zero is terrible.

[Hero of Winds]

You have no idea what you're talking about. It's a fact that the UK magazines got many exclusives, especially back when the internet was fairly slow when it came to gaming news stories. I live in the UK, I know what I'm talking about - there were plenty of exclusives and stuff from Rareware. Nowadays Rare has pretty much died in the UK.

Exactly what year(s) are you referring to? Maybe UK mags did get Rare exclusives during the SNES and N64 days, but that was, as you said, when the Internet was slow. The lack of such exclusives in 2006 has less to do with Rare belonging to MS and more to do with the enormous online gaming community that manages to find (for the most part) new information before it's officially announced.

You have to remember that that was the N64, most games sold fairly poorly, unfortunately for many. However, there is hardly any excuse for selling badly on the Xbox.

Actually there's plenty of excuses:

Grabbed by the Ghoulies - The Xbox had already defined itself as a console for adults by 2003. Releasing a title like this was not going to be big a seller.

Conker: Live & Reloaded - The port of a four-year-old game that sold poorly is, obviously, not going to sell wonderfully either.

Perfect Dark Zero - If you couldn't get your hands on a 360, why the hell would you buy a 360 game? By the time the console started becoming more available, there were better shooters on the market (though 160K copies solid isn't that bad).

Kameo: Elements of Power - Same reasons as Ghoulies and PDZ (minus the second sentence, since the 360 has yet to recieve a better adventure game than this).

EDIT: Perfect Dark Zero is terrible.

Yeah, it is pretty awful. Some parts of the game are just so laughably bad that I have to question what their QA team had been smoking all these years. It's almost as if this and Kameo were made by two completely different companies.

Also, I just had a thought... why are equating sales to the quality of a game? ICO, one of the greatest adventure games of this generation, sold very poorly. Would you say that's a bad game?

Edited by Hero of Winds, 02 October 2006 - 09:23 PM.

[Fyxe]

That's a point, lets ignore sales for the moment, because when skimming though my Nintendo magazine last night I figured out what my primary problem with Banjo Threeie is, and I'll point it out in a second.

First, I just want to mention about 'Grabbed by the Ghoulies'... That's not really an excuse. o.o It just makes me wonder why they released it. Or, hell, why they let themselves get bought up in the first place. I doubt Banjo will do well either...

Anyway, my main problem with is is this...

Have you guys seen (or just seen trailers and clips, at least) Madagascar? Or Over The Hedge? Or especially Open Season? Man, the bear in Open Season looks so much like this new Banjo it's weird. I think it's the eyes, and the slightly squareness of the limbs. Anyway, that's the problem with it. Severe unoriginality. Hell, the way Banjo looks now doesn't suit his original design. He's meant to be a hick. A bit of an idiot. Now Kazooie looks like the dumb one.

Rareware has never been the most original company out there but the fact that they've had Banjo hop onto a bandwagon is disturbing. What have people got to distinguish it from film tie-ins from those films I mentioned? Very little, as judging from that trailer, it's very generic humor. No sense of Rare's traditional irony. Maybe it's a bit harsh to judge a trailer so quickly, though, but my problem with the unoriginality of the design and them screwing up Banjo's concept still stands.

They did the same thing to Joanna Dark and Perfect Dark. It's... Cheap.

Edited by Fyxe, 03 October 2006 - 06:45 AM.

[spunky-monkey]

That's a lie. UK gaming mags never get those kinds of exclusives and if they do, they would've been all over the Internet before they hit the street.

It's no lie my friend. Forget the on-line 'community' for one minute, Rare exclusives were being published every month from around Christmas 1997 to Spring 2001 in N64 Magazine and NOM (Nintendo Official Magazine). And these are just the issues I have, my cousin has a really old interview going back when they just completed Solar Jetman for the NES.

I provided a source, from Eurogamer (and because of it's location it must know more than the rest of the world about what Rare's up to), stating the core members of the original Banjo team are still there.

One or two executive Rare Ltd producers doesn't make it a Rareware team.

People have left Rare, but like I said, the number has been grossly exaggerated. And considering that the key members of the Banjo team are still there, I'd say that your argument about Rare being sold off and replaced by MS employees and college grads (which is the biggest amount of bullshit you've posted in this whole thread) is completely without merit.

Drop the insults HoW. Olimario originally posted this on the IGNboards years ago where Ex-Rareware employees were talking about the company in retrospect:
http://forums.advanc...hread.php?t=857

The British people as in the people at Rare, or actual British gamers? If it's the former, then that's simply untrue, since Rare was sold to Microsoft. If it's the latter, then what do I care?

Have you ever actually considered that some people DON'T want to work for Microsoft? The Stamper brothers retired by selling their shares, all employee contracts were scrapped, and the rest of Britain watched as Rareware committed corporate suicide.

You know what also sold poorly? Jet Force Gemini, Blast Corps, and Conker's Bad Fur Day. Even the original Perfect Dark's sales did not meet Rare's expectations.

This is why Nintendo sold their shares. Rareware games did not sell as well as predicted; every single title was repeatedly delayed; Nintendo had to devote a lot of time and resources to them; and their games didn't help the N64 gain any kind of advantage over the apparently invincible Playstation.

If you're going to use that argument, then stop. Spending millions of dollars makes sense if it helps secure your position in the industry, but spending millions just to "dismantle" a company? That doesn't make any sense, unless you're using the word "dismantle" in the context that Sety provided.

It's called industrial espionage. Microsoft entered the console wars and needed a slice of the Sony dominated market so it buys Rare in the hope that Nintendo gamers will immediately switch over to XBox. To an extend that's exactly what happened.

Edited by Ricky, 03 October 2006 - 09:59 AM.