218 replies to this topic

[TheAvengerLever]

...That's it?

If I believe in something strongly I'm going to preach it as much as I can, but I'm not going to stress it's importance as much as accepting Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior.

[Fyxe]

Yes, that's it.

There's nothing more to say. I hate preaching. I hate preachery. Let people make up their own minds. Stop trying to influence them and concentrate on your own beliefs rather than trying to justify your own by persuading others.

Especially don't preach a dangerous belief. Belief in the end of the world is dangerous no matter how you swing it. Someone who believes that the end of the world is nigh or inevitable may feel they can do anything and it won't matter.

Don't preach it.

Edited by Fyxe, 20 September 2006 - 09:10 PM.

[Nevermind]

Of course, you can always preach under the guise of personal speculation. It's just a matter of using discretionary phrases such as "As far as I'm concerned..." and "I, personally, think that..."


Also, a common favourite is the popular "In my opinion..."

The trick is to, rather than tell people what is going to happen, tell them what YOU THINK is going to happen


It is through brainstorming, suggestion, and speculation that people are more inclined to listen to, and/or believe you.

Edited by Lazurukeel, 21 September 2006 - 12:21 AM.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

It's always unfortunate when an otherwise interesting post is marred by false information such as this (no offense to you Wolf, but the above statement is false. The Nicene Council did not canonize the Bible. In fact, the Nicene Council had nothing to do with the Biblical canon. The Council met primarily to discuss the Arian and Passover controversies.

Yes, er... my bad. I rewatched the documentary and I realised I misheard. I thought Tony Robinson said St. Athanasius (who was heavily involved in something similar to the Nicene creed), when he actually said St. Augustine.

The belief that Revelations was reffering to Nero came about when some guy decided to mathematically connect the numbers to Nero's name and made more people speculate as to whether John was talking about him or some future event (which...sounds way more interesting to begin with) Anyway, if someone knows how he did it, please post it here.

It's perfectly logical, though, considering that Hebrew letters can also represent numbers.

Edited by Wolf_ODonnell, 21 September 2006 - 05:15 AM.

[TheAvengerLever]

Yes, that's it.

There's nothing more to say. I hate preaching. I hate preachery. Let people make up their own minds. Stop trying to influence them and concentrate on your own beliefs rather than trying to justify your own by persuading others.

Especially don't preach a dangerous belief. Belief in the end of the world is dangerous no matter how you swing it. Someone who believes that the end of the world is nigh or inevitable may feel they can do anything and it won't matter.

Don't preach it.

Sorry, Jesus told me to, and I'm going to keep teachin' it.

BTW, Christians just plant a seed. They don't try and force someone to come to Jesus. People can't hear about him unless told, but yes, they have to make up their own minds.

[Arturo]

The problem is that Revelations is a book of really doubted canonicity. Though the Catholic Church accepts it as canonic, there were many doubts between the Fathers of the Church about is canonicity.

Revelations was written as a consolation book, for a persecuted church. Its simbolism refers to Rome, called Babyblon or Egypt and how God will triumph over it. Nothing more. For example, when it says that 144000 people were saved 144000 is nothing more than the whole humanity, or a great many (12 Tribes of israelx12 Apostles who preach to all the worldx1000 A great number)

But no end of worlds. The Revelations is about consolation, not about the End of the World.

[Fyxe]

Sorry, Jesus told me to, and I'm going to keep teachin' it.

Jesus did not 'tell' you to no more than he told me not to listen to Doomsdayers.

Jesus was about acceptance and tolerance, not about burning unbelievers.

What makes you so special that you have divine right to know what he does and doesn't want you to preach? Tons of people do horrible things because 'Jesus told them to', or justify racism and bigotry with 'Jesus told me to'. You're not doing anything really horrible but what makes you an oracle?

Let people learn by example, not by telling them. Nobody should be told what religion to believe in. They should find it themselves, by asking, not by being told.

[TheAvengerLever]

Nothing makes me an oracle, but Jesus said in the Gospels to teach his teachings. I don't know what God plans for our world, but I'm going to teach it as I read it.

Jesus was about tolerance and acceptance, yes, but he is not burning unbelievers. They're burning themselves. Jesus said to accept him or burn. He lets us have the choice.

It's not like I'm doing wrong by teaching it this way. It gives Christians hope in it's words.

If Jesus told me to tell other people about him, I'm going to. But they have to make that choice themselves. It's not like you're forcing them to become a Christian. That IS wrong.

By the way, why do people find it so hard to accept Jesus as their Savior? And why do they blame it on him when they choose to burn in hell?

[MikePetersSucks]

Jesus didn't teach Damnation or Worldly Doom. That was John. You're preaching HIS teachings

Furthermore, people find it "Hard to accept Jesus" because they don't believe him. Most people want facts to believe something, and Christianity can't provide that.

[Oberon Storm]

Jesus was about tolerance and acceptance, yes, but he is not burning unbelievers. They're burning themselves. Jesus said to accept him or burn. He lets us have the choice.

It's not like I'm doing wrong by teaching it this way. It gives Christians hope in it's words.

Accept him or burn. How nice. Just fills me with hope.

By the way, why do people find it so hard to accept Jesus as their Savior? And why do they blame it on him when they choose to burn in hell?

I don't take kindly to ultimatums like that.

[Korhend]

Yes, that's it.

There's nothing more to say. I hate preaching. I hate preachery. Let people make up their own minds. Stop trying to influence them and concentrate on your own beliefs rather than trying to justify your own by persuading others.

Especially don't preach a dangerous belief. Belief in the end of the world is dangerous no matter how you swing it. Someone who believes that the end of the world is nigh or inevitable may feel they can do anything and it won't matter.

Don't preach it.

You do realise your preaching right now?

[Selena]

By the way, why do people find it so hard to accept Jesus as their Savior? And why do they blame it on him when they choose to burn in hell?

Because not everyone shares the same opinion. That's the beauty of opinions.



...Though, this IS America, not the depths of the Amazon. Everyone pretty much knows what Christianity is, and we can hop on over to check it out or convert. So the 'making everyone aware' thing... I never saw how it applied here.

And, yeah, the 'do this or burn in hell' tactic doesn't win many people over, I imagine. I'd think the preaching about the nicer aspects of the religion would be more efficient.

[TheAvengerLever]

Jesus didn't teach Damnation or Worldly Doom. That was John. You're preaching HIS teachings

...

You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains

Jesus says there will be wars and diseases, but then he says the end is still to come, meaning that it's going to get a hell of a lot worse. Sounds like Worldy Doom to me.

Accept him or burn. How nice. Just fills me with hope.

You know what fills me with hope? Knowing that he loves me and died violently for me, and the fact that I'm going to be with him in Heaven.

I don't take kindly to ultimatums like that.

Trust me, I don't like the sound of it either.

[Korhend]

You know what fills me with hope? Knowing that he loves me and died violently for me, and the fact that I'm going to be with him in Heaven.

You know why I chose Statolatary instead of Christianity. Because hundreds of thousands, neigh millions of others died violently for me. Some suffered depravations far worse then Jesus did, and the fact that the merest hint of their greatness reflecting on me is better then Heaven.

[TheAvengerLever]

I suppose you mean Statolatry, which has it's roots in totalitarianism and facism, both of which implied idolatry of the state.

By the way, though Jesus' death is very important to me, the fact that he was ressurected makes it all the better

Concerning what you said about "better than Heaven" even I cannot grasp how great Heaven could be, and a statement like what you said is just bigotry on a whole new level, with all due respect.

Edited by TheAvengerButton, 21 September 2006 - 06:41 PM.

[Korhend]

I suppose you mean Statolatry, which has it's roots in totalitarianism and facism, both of which implied idolatry of the state.

You would be correct.

[TheAvengerLever]

...Which affected the world for the worst...

[Oberon Storm]

You know what fills me with hope? Knowing that he loves me and died violently for me, and the fact that I'm going to be with him in Heaven.

Except that he demands our love. Or we burn.

[Fyxe]

You do realise your preaching right now?

Yes, I'm totally 'preaching' the idea that people should make up their own minds. That's obviously the same thing as preaching a religion. Clearly.

Except not.

Asking someone not to preach is not preachery in itself. Otherwise you might as well say that any statement or concept expressed by anyone ever is 'preaching'.

[TheAvengerLever]

Except that he demands our love. Or we burn.

He doesn't demand it at all. He gives us a choice. It's not his fault that we burn anyway, it was our fate since those forbidden fruit eaters.

So it's either Jesus or hell (which isn't exactly burning, we don't know what it is, all we know is that it's ultimate punishment is being totally severed from God) I'd pick Jesus. But that's just me.

[Oberon Storm]

No. He is the one that decided to send us to hell if you don't accept him and love him and all that stuff.

[Korhend]

Yes, I'm totally 'preaching' the idea that people should make up their own minds. That's obviously the same thing as preaching a religion. Clearly.

Except not.

Asking someone not to preach is not preachery in itself. Otherwise you might as well say that any statement or concept expressed by anyone ever is 'preaching'.

You are imploring someone to accept your value (Non-Preaching).

You can't argue that your not Preaching because your preaching a seperate value system. Otherwise you could say that one is not preaching if one 'preaches' the idea of following Islam, because its clearly a different value system.

[Fyxe]

How is 'make up your own mind' a different value system? Getting a little pedantic here. It's not even a value system because it varies from person to person. It's not a system at all.

You honestly cannot equate that to preaching a religious belief.

[TheAvengerLever]

No. He is the one that decided to send us to hell if you don't accept him and love him and all that stuff.

No, we decide our fate. Jesus provided a way out of suffering, not condemning us to it.

[Korhend]

"I'm not preaching because hes wrong"?

Edited by Korhend, 21 September 2006 - 08:53 PM.

[Oberon Storm]

No, we decide our fate. Jesus provided a way out of suffering, not condemning us to it.

He's the one that created the place for the expressed purpose of sending us there if we do not bow down. It really isn't much of a choice. Especially for those of us that need a little more to believe than "because the Bible said so."

[Nevermind]

It's as much of a choice as every other person gets. Be good, give a damn, don't be a dick. Not a hard lifestyle.

Also, "eternal suffering" does not exactly mean "Hell". From what I've read, those that reject him at the end of days will simply not receive "eternal life". [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of signs point towards complete non-existence, rather than existence with infinite pain.

[Hero of Legend]

It's as much of a choice as every other person gets. Be good, give a damn, don't be a dick. Not a hard lifestyle.

Except that if you believe in Jesus, all your sins will be forgiven. If not, you go to hell. That's why nice believers like Hitler enjoy eternal paradise while I, no matter how goody-goody I am, will burn in hell for eternity.

Ah, I can just feel the love of God.

He doesn't demand it at all. He gives us a choice.

Sorta like one of the worst dictators imaginable. You can go and spit him in the face, that's your choice, but don't expect to live and see tomorrow.

Yes, choice.

Makes me wonder why Americans like democracy so much anyway... Their god sure ain’t democratic.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 22 September 2006 - 04:53 AM.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Concerning what you said about "better than Heaven" even I cannot grasp how great Heaven could be, and a statement like what you said is just bigotry on a whole new level, with all due respect.

Except for the fact that bigotry means a state of intolerance, and Korhend didn't say anything that suggested he was intolerant of Heaven or of you.

[Fyxe]

"I'm not preaching because hes wrong"?

I'm not preaching because I'm not saying I'm right or he's wrong. I'm saying people should be allowed to make up their own minds without being influenced.