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Jesus Is The Messiah


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#31 Ogmios22188

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 06:56 PM

[quote]Originally posted by arunma+Sep 14 2004, 07:34 PM-->
QUOTE(arunma @ Sep 14 2004, 07:34 PM)
My attempt?  That's what the Bible says.  Besides, it doesn't say that he had children.  Look here.

[quote]Originally posted by Isaiah 53:8@
By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
[/quote]

Offspring doesn't refer to actual children.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/b][/quote]

#32 Reflectionist

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 07:10 PM

Originally posted by www.dictionary.com
off·spring    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (ôfsprng, f-)
n. pl. offspring
The progeny or descendants of a person, animal, or plant considered as a group.
A child of particular parentage.
A result; a product.



Sounds right to me, Ogimos.

No, Jesus never had any children physically. But, in the Bible, it says that God is the Father, and that Jesus is God. Which makes other Christians children of God... so... what is being said is true.... from... a logical point of veiw.

It also helps if you've read the Bible.

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 07:54 PM

Just found out about losing eveything- that sucks. My posts were getting kinda high, too. I was gonna be able to make my own title-thing soon. Ah well.

Oh, yeah- Jesus is the Messiah and stuff. He owns.

#34 Reflectionist

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 07:58 PM

lol

*in context of 'He owns' *

#35 Alakhriveion

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 08:01 PM

I have one thing to say: Halie Salasie.

#36 Reflectionist

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 08:04 PM

Uh.... i don't get it....


are you rooting for the Christians or.... uh... not?

#37 Alakhriveion

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 08:05 PM

Not. Very much Not.

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 08:07 PM

Okay, Alak, mind telling us about that vague reference, there? No one's gonna know what that is, except possibly arunma, and I wouldn't even bet on that.

#39 Alakhriveion

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 08:09 PM

He's and heir of Solomon, and god to Rastafarians. He fits all the prophetry as well as Jesus does.

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 08:14 PM

Dude, you joined this afternoon and you've broken one hundred posts?

Anyway, I know nothing about Rastafarianism, so I can't fight you there.

#41 Alakhriveion

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 08:22 PM

Well, it's a Western Religion, like Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, and it follows the Judaism/Christianity set. It believes that "white" society has corrupted the word of god, and that Halie Salasie, the king of Ethiopia in the seventies, is the messiah. They also believe in Jesus, but hold that he was balck, which I believe is the case. Anyway, their messiah fits Isiah as well as yours.

#42 Ogmios22188

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 08:39 PM

Originally posted by Reflectionist@Sep 14 2004, 08:10 PM
Sounds right to me, Ogimos.

No, Jesus never had any children physically. But, in the Bible, it says that God is the Father, and that Jesus is God. Which makes other Christians children of God... so... what is being said is true.... from... a logical point of veiw.

It also helps if you've read the Bible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Either you didn't read the rest of my post, or you've just decided that you can't refute it well enough. I addressed that whole bit in my post. Why don't you address what I said in yours, and then tell me that it the definition applies to what you said it does, when I previously said it didn't, and you haven't refuted why I said it didn't

#43 GraniteJJ

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 11:07 PM

Originally posted by Reflectionist
It also helps if you've read the Bible.


That sounds a tad condescending...

And the Bible is interpreted to mean whatever people want it to mean. I've heard different priests take the same passage from the Bible and tell me it is about faith, about overcoming strife, about this, and that and the other thing. Reading the Bible doesn't mean squat, because no one interprets it the same as you. Its like...bland poetry...no offense to Christians...

What are the prophecies to become a Messiah?

I'm just wondering...maybe they're not all that hard to do.

I think I will train Alak to become the next Messiah.

#44 arunma

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 11:31 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Ogmios22188+Sep 14 2004, 06:56 PM-->
QUOTE(Ogmios22188 @ Sep 14 2004, 06:56 PM)
That seems like children to me.  It's not like the Bible said "the offspring of his teaching" or something to that effect.  It basically says "the offspring of him".  Notice the lack of the capital? If it was Him, they could be talking about the offspring of God, humans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/b][/quote]

The NIV doesn't capitalize pronouns in reference to God.

[quote]Originally posted by Alak@
I have one thing to say: Halie Salasie.[/quote]

#45 Kairu Hakubi

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 11:57 PM

Where does it say the messiah would have red hair? And Jesus -is- from the line of David, so that fixes that bit.
What's funny to me is that a lot of religions (buddhism, judaism, sometimes Islam) or at least the people in them, will say that they respect Jesus as a prophet or a great teacher but not as the messiah.. well I'm sorry, but wouldn't logic dictate that Jesus is either the messiah or a really huge liar? It's nice to try to make peace, but above all try to make sense ^^' If you don't believe in him then you believe he was a liar.. or at least that lies were written about him later on. meh.

Nice guy, that Jesus. (It's a great name, isn't it?) XD

#46 arunma

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 12:03 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Kairu Hakubi+Sep 14 2004, 11:57 PM-->
QUOTE(Kairu Hakubi @ Sep 14 2004, 11:57 PM)
What's funny to me is that a lot of religions (buddhism, judaism, sometimes Islam) or at least the people in them, will say that they respect Jesus as a prophet or a great teacher but not as the messiah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/b][/quote]
Very good points. Just two things. Actually, Islam always respects Jesus, because they believe he is a prophet. They don't think that the Gospels are accurate, which is why they have some grounds for believing as they do. As for Judaism, there's no official position on Jesus.

As Alak can attest, Jews believe it is impossible for God to become a man, so they have an aversion to Jesus. One Ashkenazi Rabbi pointed out that it's OK for Gentiles to worship Jesus, but not Jews. Other than that, the Jewish community doesn't really believe anything about him. I've met Jews who despised Jesus, and others who thought that his teachings have done the world a great service by bringing us out of paganism. So it varies quite a bit.

#47 Alakhriveion

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 09:54 AM

[quote]Originally posted by arunma+Sep 14 2004, 11:31 PM-->
QUOTE(arunma @ Sep 14 2004, 11:31 PM)
The NIV doesn't capitalize pronouns in reference to God.

[quote]Originally posted by Alak@
I have one thing to say: Halie Salasie.[/quote]


#48 arunma

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 12:35 PM

Well Alak, one difference between Jesus and Selassie is that Jesus did claim to be the Messiah.

#49 Alakhriveion

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 01:22 PM

His followers, who built an empire on the claim, said he did. Myself, I'm sceptical.

#50 Reflectionist

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 02:40 PM

Okay, in my Bible (Youthwalk devotional) If you read any of the four gospels, it says "so that the prophesy will be fulfilled" a^ and there are at least seven on every page, it seems, pointing to that prophesy in the Old Testament.

And, i think someone in an earlier post said something about Isiah, and those other prophet dudes that were "messiahs" Yes... then again, there were five "integral anomolys" in the Matrix that failed before Neo Saved everyone... just a little thought to shed some light on the subject. No more will be said about the matrix

and, another point, how do you debate the virgin birth? You can't just say "Joseph thought she was a virgin, and so did everyone else, but she knew Bill Clinton... blah blah blah..." no, it's not like that. The virgin woman had a child.

Jesus was taken up into Heaven. Ascension. He's not going to go on some talk show, that would ruin the state of free will that God gave all of us. So, He is alive. Still is. He even says that He'll come back later, and, Revelation is a prophecy that has yet to come, but when it does, in no uncertain terms... well... you guys are screwed.

:-P

EDIT: Bethlehem means Bethlehem. "He" or "Him" is never capitalized in the Bible at all. I did read all of your post, Ogimos. and don't forget about the albino rastafarians in the matrix.

#51 SteveT

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 04:53 PM

He and Him weren't capitalized because Greek only really used capital letters when you were engraving things. The point of capitalizing He and Him in respect to God is to make them proper nouns instead of pronouns.

#52 arunma

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 08:49 PM

Actually, in Jesus' day, Hebrew and Greek letters didn't even have capitals. There was no capital specifically for the word "God." The Hebrew word elohim (plural) was used to refer to God and to false gods, and the Greek word theos (singular) similarly referred to God as well as false gods. "Lord Jesus Christ" was also written Kurios Iesous Kristos without any special capitals or other distinguishing marks. People back then were obviously smart enough to figure out the important stuff on their own.

#53 Alakhriveion

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 08:53 PM

El, of course, being the singular.

#54 arunma

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 08:57 PM

El almost always referred to false gods. The only time it was used for God was in the term "El-Shaddai" (roughly translated "God Almighty" or "the Sovereign LORD").

Also, I think Eloah was the singular for Elohim. But you're the Jew, so you'll probably know where to check and see if I'm right or wrong, because I may be confusing it with something else.

#55 Alakhriveion

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 09:03 PM

Naw, "El" just means god, like the English word god.

Also, god has a lot of names in Hebrew. These are usually passed off as "God Almighty" "The Lord God" and such, but really, each name has a different personality. I direct you to James Miller's "God: A Biography".

#56 arunma

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 09:35 PM

But this one Jew I talked to said it's forbidden for Jews to worship El. Are you sure El is used in reference to YHVH?

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 01:12 PM

The trouble with calling Jesus the Messiah is that it assumes that there is a God in the first place.

Personally, I don't know either way. I do know that Jesus, man or Messiah, meant well, though. He did seem a little nuts with that whole cannibalism shit though.

#58 SteveT

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 01:41 PM

Well, I know Greek HAD capital letters, but they were soley for engraving. The lower-case letters were way too round and wavy to put on rocks.

#59 Goth Kirby

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 01:54 PM

im not quite whats going on here but a none beliver in any religen exept myown 121 members and counting, may make a official site or somtin lol

but lookin at the title "jesus is the messiah" id say that is wrong, buddah has the right idea

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 02:01 PM

A couple things I'd like to say.

Firstly, history tells us Jesus and His apostles existed. This much is fact. It also tells us that Jesus died on te cross because He was a "troublemaker."

However, here is the point I'd like to make, and this too is historical. Jesus' followers went into hiding directly after His death, but three days later, something happened that caused them to again believe His message and speak in its favor. And on that day of Pentecost, something happened that convinced several thousand people that Jesus the Nazorean was the messiah.

I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, and before you try to argue against Him I'd like you to explain what's going on in the above paragraph, which is historical fact.




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