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Sage Observation


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#61 Guest_BlackHawkA100_*

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 08:02 PM

Okay, this can probably be easily explained, I already have an idea how it can be (I don't like it, but I have it) but if the ancient sages are still alive during this whole thing why would Link have needed to find new sages?

#62 Guest_Moonman_*

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 09:54 PM

Black Hawk: Zythe is saying that Fado and Laruto are the ancient sages. Therefore, it is only after they are killed in the WW backstory that replacements are needed.

Zythe: I've heard that island explanation before. It doesn't make the assumption any more necessary.

#63 Guest_BlackHawkA100_*

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Posted 01 November 2004 - 10:19 AM

I realize what Zythe is saying Moonman, but if there are infact Sages alive during the OoT period, presumably the Ancient Sages according to this theory, why would Link have had to find new sages? Sorry if my question was unclear.

#64 Guest_Moonman_*

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Posted 01 November 2004 - 01:19 PM

Ah, gotcha. Well, even though I don't support the ancient Sage theory, I think I know the answer. The reason is that all the other sages save for Rauru, Fado, and Laruto, somehow passed away, and for some reason their duties weren't passed on until OoT. It's a rather weak theory. I mean, why should other sages die and not Fado and Laruto? I can understand Rauru, they can say he was sealed away in the temple of light until the hero nabbed the MS, although even that is kind of iffy. But the other two should have died from natural causes, as their prayers are needed to keep the MS powered up.

#65 Guest_BlackHawkA100_*

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Posted 02 November 2004 - 10:09 AM

Alright, that works. I'll agree with you on this one, it's an interesting theory, but it just doesn't quite fit in correctly in my mind. There's nothing to suggest that Fado and Laruto are ancient sages, not even a rumor, I mean, they're completely unknown to the islands. Which does suggest that they were killed before the time of the flood, but not that it was hundreds of years ago. If people continue to insist that the Master Sword did in fact need to be powered up at the time of OoT, it makes more sense to say that there were other sages praying for it, but even that doesn't make sense. I guess I need to do more research to come up with a reasonable answer.

#66 Guest_Moonman_*

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Posted 02 November 2004 - 04:16 PM

Yeah, the ancient sages are totally ambiguous, and people are using the ambiguity of the whole "How does the Master Sword actually work?" question to try and make them more than a rumor.

#67 SOAP

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 01:27 PM

Which does suggest that they were killed before the time of the flood, but not that it was hundreds of years ago.


If they were killed before the flood then they were killed hundreds of years ago as well.

Anyways, I think Fado and Laruto were ancient sages, but only when compared with Medli and Makar. That doesn't neccesarily mean they were ancient in OoT's time period as well, if they existed as sages at all. Nor does it connect them with Rauru and KG. Though it might be possible Rauru and KG could be the original Earth Sage and Wind Sage (Nothing's to stop Rauru from working double elements now ithere?) but that's just mere speculation. But then again, we know that Rauru is somehow responsible for the construction of the Temple of time which housed the MS. So logicly he could be one of the ones who helped forged the MS and placed in charge of keeping it powered up. However, when it comes right down to it, it's still just speculation. There's really to prove or disprove any of it.

#68 Guest_BlackHawkA100_*

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 11:26 PM

If they were killed before the flood then they were killed hundreds of years ago as well.
 


Sorry, you're right, must not have been thinking with my general capacity right there. And in fact I'm not even positive what I was trying to say. Just that they were killed before the flood, and that that doesn't prove they were in existance for any huge amount of time before that.

And true, with that theory of yours there isn't anything to prove or disprove, but saying that Rauru, one of the sages whom we rarely see in OoT, is in charge of praying for the power of the Master Sword, makes a ton more sense than saying that these two sages in WW, which takes place many hundred years after OoT were alive then.

#69 Guest_Moonman_*

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 01:10 AM

Yeah, there's nothing to say it isn't *possible* for Rauru to have two elements...but...there's really no reason to argue for it either. Also...

But then again, we know that Rauru is somehow responsible for the construction of the Temple of time which housed the MS


No, we don't know anything of the sort. Some people assumed that because he was so knowledgeable about everything, and was the only sage initially around, that he was from a previous set of sages. However, he could have just as easily been someone in Royal employ, the one sage needed to pass down the knowledge of the generations. So basically, we don't know anything for sure.

#70 Guest_Spikey_*

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 06:26 AM

No, Moonman, it's not THAT simple either. Listen to this:

Zelda:
"So, the ancient Sages built
the Temple of Time to protect the
Triforce from evil ones."

Rauru:
"I am Rauru, one of the ancient Sages..."

So he might not be exactly responsible, but he did take part in building the Temple of Time.

#71 Kairu Hakubi

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 12:17 PM

i sorta took that to mean 'one of the ancient order of the sages' but that's not supported or anything.

#72 Guest_Spikey_*

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 02:44 PM

Well, I think those two particular quotes are rather straightforward and self-explanatory.

#73 Guest_Moonman_*

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 02:45 AM

Indeed, I stand corrected. I totally missed that bit when I played last. So Rauru is an ancient sage. Still, it doesn't really lend any more credibility to Fado and Laruto being ancient sages. Good to know though...once again, I had totally forgotten about that.

#74 Guest_Spikey_*

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 06:35 AM

No indeed, we have no clue as of they are ancient sages.

It's a common mistake btw to think that Rauru isn't an ancient sage. There was this website who dictated that Rauru built the Temple of Time. That's incorrect, it's well spread that the ancient sages built the Temple of Time. However, Rauru was an ancient sage, and that is often overlooked. So he did take part in building, but he didn't built it by himself.

#75 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 02:06 PM

I don't think Laruto and Fado are the ancient sages who took part in building the Temple of Time. In the TWW Fado told Link to tell the the King that he would love to play for him in the next life...of course that King being Daphnes--obviously the only ancient King that Link can relay the message to. Since Daphnes was the king when Ganon came back from the Sacred Realm, Fado existed during that time, cuz that's the king he played for when he was alive, but later he was killed by Ganon while praying in the temple.

#76 Guest_Moonman_*

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 05:51 PM

Exactly! There's nothing to say that the Sage orchestra bit wasn't post OoT. In fact, because there is no evidence of such a thing in OoT or it's back story, it's even likely that it occurs after OoT, thus people shouldn't lump Fado and Laruto in with Rauru. Surely they are ancient relative to WW, but so are the sages from OoT. It doesn't mean that they are of the group of sages storyliners have dubbed as the ancient sages.

#77 SOAP

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Posted 06 November 2004 - 01:13 PM

Ancient is too relative of a term anyways.




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