76 replies to this topic

[Neon Z]

There is no reason for Fado and Laruto to be praying in the background of OoT. We see in OoT that the MS alone isn't enough. It also takes the power of the sages to defeat Ganon. I would then suggest that it's after that point that they would then assign the new role of powering the MS to the sages. Besides, if they were both powering up the MS in OoT, shouldn't the sword be glowing?

The gem at the center of the Master Sword was yellow in OOT, just like the powered up Master Sword in WW. That proves that the Master Sword in OOT is the about the same as the level 2 Master Sword in WW even before the seven sages powered it up during the final battle. The glowing blade is either just a design difference, or because new sages are, somehow, better than the old ones.

[SOAP]

You point at me and say I lack evidence, well read your above quote. There is no reason for Fado and Laruto to be praying in the background of OoT. We see in OoT that the MS alone isn't enough. It also takes the power of the sages to defeat Ganon. I would then suggest that it's after that point that they would then assign the new role of powering the MS to the sages. Besides, if they were both powering up the MS in OoT, shouldn't the sword be glowing?

Who said Fado and Laruto were keeping the sword powered up in the background of OoT? The flood didn't occur directly after OoT. The events of OoT were passed on "generation by generation" until it became mere legend. So at least more 100 years must have passed since then. Laruto and Fado could've existed anywhere in within that time period.

You fail to see the connection I am using. Laruto and Ruto don't simply have the same letter or some such stupid connection, their names are derived from one another the same way in which words are derived from each other in the real world. You could at least recognize that, and no, it isn't proof that they are related, neither does it provide aid in placing the two chronologically (either name could have been derived from the other), but it is reason to suspect a relation.

I know what you're saying. "Laruto-La=Ruto" Duh! What we need is a valid reason to believe ANY relationship even exists between Laruto and Ruto. Simmilar names and being part of the same race isn't enough to draw such a conclusion. I bet there's other Puerto Ricans with the same name as me. In fact, there's [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] actually. Doesn't mean I'm related to any of them. Without any hard evidence to back up your claim it's just mere speculation. Nothing more.

Yes, Laruto was implying a connection with Medli, but what she is saying means that sages must be connected by blood. So, I then propose that she, being a Zora, and knowing only of one other Zora sage, got her Sage's blood from Ruto, if indeed Ruto is her predecessor.

Doesn't mean that Laruto can't be the first in her family to be the sage of anything. As far as we know, neither of Ruto's parents were sages. And the OoT Sages themselves weren't related to each other. So why should Laruto and Ruto be related? All that quote implies is that Medli is the next Earth Sage in that bloodline.

That's not really the difference between royal and non-royal. It's more like the difference between storyline characters and generic zoras. I mean, the band in MM has a bunch of unique zoras, but it's never mentioned that any of them are Royal.

Laruto was a storyline character as well. If they wanted to imply a relationship between Laruto and Ruto, they should have made her look like her, not like a generic Zora.

Ok, I can't "back up" much of what I'm saying because most of it is logical speculation based on what one little line from WW could mean. And when I made the Calc 3 reference I was actually cut off by a friend who wanted to do Calc 3 homework. I wanted to finish whatever train of thought I had going, but I had to go. So, to close off real fast I merely said what was happening. I think it bugs you so much because you think I'm trying to say that I'm smarter than you cuz I'm in Calc 3. I don't mean to say that at all. Besides, being good at math means little in reference to these forums.

Bah! I'm not pissed at you. This is just Zelda debate. I do these things for fun. I just.... well, let's just say I have strong opinions.

[MikePetersSucks]

Wow, this topic is soo stupid. Moonman, I think you need to be providing quotes or shut your trap. Also, I find it suspicious you don't even bother to acknowledge Mario's harp comment, which right there DESTROYS your entire argument. Air Grady, Mido and Saria can't have children, as they're eternally children themselves. Also, I think Kokiri are born from the Deku Tree or something, so however spewed that rumor needs to be backhanded. Also, comment: Why is it that the Master Sword needs only two sages? I always thought that Sages came in sets of 7, and the Master Sword seems awfully important to have just TWO SAGES. Is this an error on the Goddesses' part, or are there 5 other sages that were never awakened O.o

[Tri-Enforcer]

(Moonman) You point at me and say I lack evidence, well read your above quote. There is no reason for Fado and Laruto to be praying in the background of OoT. We see in OoT that the MS alone isn't enough. It also takes the power of the sages to defeat Ganon. I would then suggest that it's after that point that they would then assign the new role of powering the MS to the sages. Besides, if they were both powering up the MS in OoT, shouldn't the sword be glowing?

Here are quotes from both Fado and Laruto in reference to what they were doing before Ganon killed them:

I am Fado of the Kokiri tribe. I know I appear to you as a child, but the eyes canoft deceive. I am a most esteemed sage.I had been praying here so that the power to repel evil would continue to be contained within the blade of the Master Sword...But I was attacked by the evil Ganondorf...and this is what happened to me.

My name is Laruto.I am a Zora sage. For an age, I offeredmy prayers here in the Earth Temple,praying that the power to repel evil wouldever remain within the Master Sword.And yet...unfortunately, due to Ganondorf'sevil designs, the Master Sword you holdhas lost this power.After his defeat at the hands of the Hero ofTime, Ganondorf was sealed away...but notfor all time. He was revived, and hereturned to Hyrule in a red wrath.He attacked this temple and stole my soul,knowing that he had to remove the powercontained in that enchanted blade.In order to return the power to repel evil toyour sword, you must find another to takemy stead in this temple and ask the godsfor their assistance.You must find the one who carries onmy bloodline... The one who holds thissacred instrument...Nothing can stop the flow of time or thepassing of generations...but the fate carriedwithin my bloodline endures the ravages ofall the years. It survives.

There's your proof that they were praying over the sword before they got wacked.Also, who's to say that a sage can only have one function...or can't be used for something else in case others fail or if the objective has changed.

[SOAP]

I'm begining to think the Koroks are their natural form, so yeah, they're like tree sprouts and all probably come from the Deku Tree himself. Which is probably why Fado never hinted a lineage between him and Makar. They'd be more like brothers or something with a couple hundred years difference.

Having simmilar names is not enough. If we go by that logic then Malon, Romani, and Marin must be related and that's damn near impossible.

[SOAP]

I think all these "hints" in TWW were only put in there purely for nostalgic reasons. I've yet to see anything that's grounds to believe Fado and Laruto are related to the OoT Sages or any OoT character for that matter. They do hint an actual relationship between the Rito behind the desk and the postman from MM but that's also impossible. They probably meant the Running Man or something.

[SOAP]

That's just one theory. Other's believe the Rito have always existed. It's just that they're now being seen since the flood has brought everyone to their level pretty much. I prefer the Zora-Rito theory though.

Anyways, that was just one Rito.

[MikePetersSucks]

o.o; anyway...yea...names do not mean crap when it comes to bloodline, Mario Jr. is 100% correct on this matter, so this topic should just be dropped

[MikePetersSucks]

If this topic annoys you so much, I would prefer if you wouldn't bother posting in it, or even reading it. You have no right to say my stuff is crap. Nothing you have contributed has the smallest bit of significance to this topic.

Well, in regard to that, you have no idea whether she has a harp as a family heirloom or not. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. And yes, I know that doesn't mean she does have it either. All I'm trying to say is that it's possible. Besides, the King conducting the seven sages may have been a post OoT event, and thus the harp came into the picture later.

If she did have it, she probably would of used it when she became a Sage, since it's called Fate's Instrument, and seems to be CRUCIAL to the Earth Sage's powe o.o




The Deku Tree claims to be the Father of the Kokiri, and calls the Korok his children. gee, I wonder what that means...

Your case is different than that of Ruto and Laruto. They exist in a story world in which we only get one name most of the time. In real life, if someone had your last name, you might suspect they are related to you somewhere along the line. Unless, of course, your name is rather common. However, there is no evidence that Ruto is a common name. In fact, I would argue otherwise because royalty in fantasy worlds rarely have common names.

Keyword here. Fantasy WORLD! let's also take into account all the people throughout the games that have similar names. There's more to the Zelda planet than Hyrule. not everyone has a unique name, thusly, similar names do NOT mean a thing! let's also note that Ruto and Laruto are based off two different kinds of fish. A salmon does not give birth to a shark, just like a princess does not give birth to a commoner -.-;

Except that you have no other Zora to compare her to in WW, so you can't come to a definite conclusion because of the huge art difference between OoT and WW.

wow, and amazingly, you overlook the post Mario made several posts ago. way to have selective hearing. Art differences mean nothing. they still have no simularities at all, atleast with Link, Zelda, and Ganon, you can atleast see SIMULARITIES! there are nil to none between Ruto and Laruto.

Thanks for the quotes. However, I was never trying to disprove that they were praying when they were killed. I was also not saying that sages can't have more than one role. However, it would appear that someone must be actively praying in the temple to lend power to the MS.

Or, the more obvious choice, after the MS served the purpose it was DESTINED to serve in OOT, it's power starting waning? Oh wait, your going to say that's a dumb idea. so is your connection of Ruto and Laruto based on a name.

If this topic annoys you so much, I would prefer if you wouldn't bother posting in it, or even reading it. You have no right to say my stuff is crap. Nothing you have contributed has the smallest bit of significance to this topic.

wow, and I was under the impression that I had the rights of a human being ~.~; I read this topic because this is a debate forum and your idea is wrong

[SOAP]

X.X I'm... just going to take a brief hiatus from this particular topic until you two stop arguing about me instead of the original debate at hand.

[Zythe]

Are there any quotes to suggest that the harp governs the sage's power?

There are two different sets of sages, IMO, the Ancient Sages that made the Master Sword and the Sealing Sages that trapped Ganon. Laruto and Fado are two of the said sealing sages along with Rauru and Kaebora Gaebora. Medli and the little Korok dude are descended from Laruto and Fado (zora and kokiri) and it is from thei blood they get their powers. Directly. Come the move to the new land, the King appoints wholly new sages and it is they that the sages & maidens of LTTP are descended from.

Is MikePetersSucks, actually Mike Peters: knowing that using that name no one would guess?

[MikePetersSucks]

Zythe, I'm not Mike Peters, Jesus, If I was, I'd give you all permission to kill me in the most horrible way imaginable (Has actually talked to him on AIM, ugh, the horror)

Anyway, I never said the Instruments GOVERNED the Sages' power, but channeled it, because everytime the TWW Sages need to use their power, they use music. I doubt the King's idea to have a musical set of Sages would somehow change how their powers work. Also, I really do think their are variants to the Zora, as we have several games to base them on, and their ALWAYS different. We also have a few quotes from Oracles here and there that suggest Zoras evolved into seperate breeds, but I do not have them, but I think Mario Jr. does. I'd also like to point out that GossipStones are called GossipStones for a reason. They probably remember rumors that they come across or something (or make some up somehow) but it doesn't matter how they get the rumors, but they are. We also don't know how they're communicating, but as TWW suggests, a person is on the other line, likea primitive, magical phone. And since they are commonly shaped like Owls, it might be possible that Kaepora Gaebora is controlling them, and it could be possible that that specific quote is just Kae trying to make himself sound important so Link will heed his advice more often

[MikePetersSucks]

Uh...yea, they ARE related! their both GOSSIP STONES! x.x if they're not a connection, then one of them isn't a Gossip Stone. I like to think the Gossip Stones of OOT are similar to the ones in TWW, but the OOT Gossip Stones record rumors that are said around them or something. Either way, since their GOSSIP Stones, they aren't all that reliable.

[SOAP]

Zythe. If MikePetersSucks was Mike Peters, he would've hightailed it out of this topic long time ago once he saw my PDN. Also, MikePeters sucks, could you give me his s/n? I'd like to have a long overdue chat with my dear ol' friend...

[Zythe]

Heh, I had never put that much thought into the gossip stones. However, I don't think that there really was someone on the other end, nor would I think that Kaepora Gaebora was that person if there indeed was a person on the other end. I think that saying that the stones on WW are related to the gossip stones in OoT was just another way to vaguely connect the two games, because as far as we know, there are no real similarities between the two different magical items.

And uh...Zythe...why do you think that Fado and Laruto were sealing sages?

Because it was their position, as Sages that give life to the Master Sword. The Master Sword in OOT was fully powered before you made sages of Saria and company, so It would seem that the Ancient Sages (or replacements of said Sages) are alive throughout OOT. I haven't played TWW in a while, but I do have a memory, and either Fado or Laruto said that Ganon had them killed, assumedly, to weaken the MS so it couldn't harm him.

Zythe, I'm not Mike Peters, Jesus, If I was, I'd give you all permission to kill me in the most horrible way imaginable (Has actually talked to him on AIM, ugh, the horror)

Anyway, I never said the Instruments GOVERNED the Sages' power, but channeled it, because everytime the TWW Sages need to use their power, they use music. I doubt the King's idea to have a musical set of Sages would somehow change how their powers work. Also, I really do think their are variants to the Zora, as we have several games to base them on, and their ALWAYS different. We also have a few quotes from Oracles here and there that suggest Zoras evolved into seperate breeds, but I do not have them, but I think Mario Jr. does. I'd also like to point out that GossipStones are called GossipStones for a reason. They probably remember rumors that they come across or something (or make some up somehow) but it doesn't matter how they get the rumors, but they are. We also don't know how they're communicating, but as TWW suggests, a person is on the other line, likea primitive, magical phone. And since they are commonly shaped like Owls, it might be possible that Kaepora Gaebora is controlling them, and it could be possible that that specific quote is just Kae trying to make himself sound important so Link will heed his advice more often

That makes sense, I am dubious of new members though, because I knew of times where Mike Peters had come back and no-one was any the wiser, but that person isn't here anymore so when I saw 'MikePetersSucks' I thought 'It's him!'.

[SOAP]

Seems logical. Anyways, here's the said quotes in question:

LARUTO, AFTER LEARNING THE EARTH GOD'S LYRIC:

O great hero, chosen by the Master Sword!

My name is Laruto.

I am a Zora sage. For an age, I offered
my prayers here in the Earth Temple,
praying that the power to repel evil would
ever remain within the Master Sword.

And yet...unfortunately, due to Ganondorf's
evil designs, the Master Sword you hold
has lost this power.

After his defeat at the hands of the Hero of
Time, Ganondorf was sealed away...but not
for all time. He was revived, and he
returned to Hyrule in a red wrath.

He attacked this temple and stole my soul,
knowing that he had to remove the power
contained in that enchanted blade.

FADO, AFTER LEARNING WIND GOD'S ARIA:

Are you the new hero?

I am Fado of the Kokiri tribe. I know I
appear to you as a child, but the eyes can
oft deceive. I am a most esteemed sage.

I had been praying here so that the power
to repel evil would continue to be contained
within the blade of the Master Sword...

But I was attacked by the evil Ganondorf...
and this is what happened to me.

I took the liberty of highlighting the important stuff in bold. They're still kinda ambiguous. Especially the last line Fado's speech. All we know is that they're now dead and Ganondorf's the one responsible. It's not that hard to put two and two together.

[Zythe]

The reason you don't see them in OOT, is because the outer islands of TWW are not visible in OOT. Look at the Mountainous Islands (amongst which is Windfall Island) that take up the two rows below the top row of islands. They are Death Mountain. The islands where you find the ghosts of Fado and Laruto are either above Death Mountain (unreachable in OOT) or below the Kokiri Forest (unreachable in OOT).