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#1 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 02:57 PM

MC-IW-LTTP-LA-FSBS-FSA-FW-OOT-MM-TWW-SZ-LoZ-AoL-Oracles

As you can see from here the IW is not OOT. At the end of the IW and at the start of LTTP Ganon has the whole Triforce to himself, inside the Dark World. At the end of OOT Ganon ONLY had the Triforce of Power when he was sealed. In LTTP one of the maidens says knowledge of the the Golden Land's whereabouts was lost over time, but Ganon rediscovered it, thus triggering the IW:

(Maiden in Swamp Palace)...The Triforce will grant the
wishes of whoever touches it,
as long as that person lives...

That is why it was hidden in
the Golden Land. Only a select
few were told of its location,

but at some point that
knowledge was lost...
The person who rediscovered

the Golden Land was
an evil thief named Ganondorf.
Luckily, he couldn't figure out

how to return to the Light
World...

In OOT knowledge of the realm that holds the Triforce was not lost. Zelda and the Royal Family knew, that's what the Temple of Light was for and they knew it's secrets, that's why Zelda threw the Ocarina to Link, she knew what it would do. Even Ganon at least suspected this--he just didn't have a way to get inside, until Link helped him, indirectly of course:

GANONDORF, TALKING TO LINK TELEPATHICALLY (centered):
Geh heh heh! Excellent work!
As I thought, you held the keys to the Door of Time!
You have led me to the gates of the Sacred Realm...
Yes, I owe it all to you, kid!
(long, roaring laugh)



I placed FSA after LTTP, since the Dark World is around in that game, and many of you know that the realm wasn't called the Dark World until after Ganon touched the Triforce. (Thanks to Octorok, Zol...Fyxe for pointing this out to me) Although Ganon is dead at the end of LTTP, he was apparently reincarnated in FSA. In LTTP Aghanim mentions something about the tribe of evil and in FSA a maiden mentions that Hyrule was once invaded by a "tribe of evil", maybe she's referencing the events of LTTP and most likely the 'tribe of evil" is just general for any evil force or a term used for Ganon and his followers.

At the end of FSA, Ganon is trapped inside of the Four Sword. Somehow he is broken out, maybe by Twinrova, who will later play a role in OOT. Ganon continues his search for power, and soon Hyrule is enveloped in war amongst its races. A Hylian mother tries to escape the ravages of the war, and on her last breath entrust her baby with the Deku Tree. This war will later be referred to as a "fierce war" by the Deku Tree and Zelda Fandom will coin it as the "Fierce War" (FW). We all know what happens in OOT (sort of) so I won't elaborate on it.

I'd go on, but I'd rather stop and see what others think of this, and please speak freely, I'll try to refrain from biting your heads off, if you have a problem with this.

#2 Mystic Kitsune

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 02:59 PM

Thats it, i give up on the timeline...man it screws with my head to much. Very good points indeed Tri-Enforcer, but then again other timelines that are different also have good points. Now ill just concetrate on playing the games instead of worrying about the storyline.

#3 Octorok

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 03:38 PM

The OoT-MM-TWW story arc is somewhat awkwardly placed.

For one thing, and I said this about your first timeline, the Triforce should not be in any games before OoT. Also, I have a hard time imagining how the ToC got into the hands of an old midget in AoL, after TWW. And how the ToP and ToW ended up where they were in LoZ.

#4 Billy Goat

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 04:20 PM

I have to agree with Octorock, but other than that it makes sense.

#5 Doopliss

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 04:31 PM

Octorok, AoL says that Ganon stole the Triforce of Power a long time ago, so after TWW the royal family could have gotten the Triforce (because obviously it had to obtain it at a point), so maybe that explains your doubt.

#6 Octorok

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 04:43 PM

Still, what about the ToC?

#7 Hero of Slime

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 04:46 PM

The Triforce of courage was hidden by the King. It says in the AoL back story.

#8 Octorok

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 04:49 PM

But with a MIDGET?!

The OoT-MM-TWW thing is still poorly placed.

Also, it would make far more sense to have OoX before LoZ- AoL, and have LttP-LA nearby.

#9 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 05:09 PM

The OoT-MM-TWW story arc is somewhat awkwardly placed.

For one thing, and I said this about your first timeline, the Triforce should not be in any games before OoT. Also, I have a hard time imagining how the ToC got into the hands of an old midget in AoL, after TWW. And how the ToP and ToW ended up where they were in LoZ.


Why shouldn't the Triforce be in any game before OOT. It should be a rule of thumb that the Triforce shouldn't make an appearance before the Imprisoning War than anything. We already know why the ToP ends up in Ganon's hands by the time of LoZ--he stole it--as usual. What happened in between TWW and LoZ according to my timeline? I believe that a new kingdom was established quite sometime after TWW. At this point the new kingdom is one country and unified and is at peace. There is so much we can fill in with the gap in beteween TWW and LoZ. Perhpas fater the new kingdom is established, sometime later at evils try to plague land, or Ganon is revived somehow (hey he always finds away to come back that's a given). Once more the Triforce is split, as usual the carekeeper of Wisdom is always the princess.

Then we come to the Sleeping Zelda period (lets assusme Ganon is once again dead or sealed somehwhere), as we know she is put to sleep after she does not disclose the whereabouts of ToW. Judging from the scroll in AoL, nobody possesses (nor has anyone worthy enough has found it) the ToC, it's been hidden away at the last palace in AoL. Just as it's said in that games introduction.

The only thing that fishy is the long gap between TWW and LoZ, from canon we can tell what happened to the ToC (it's hidden); ToW (Zelda the princess gets it); ToP (it's been stolen by Ganon). What we don't know is how did Ganon come back after TWW...and why did the Triforce split again. Well we know from canon that the Triforce has split before when evil emerges--so we can assume that's the reason why the parts weren't together at start of LoZ. That's why I mentioned all that stuff about Ganon possibly was revived again or some other evil arose causing this to happen. So, I used fanfic only that it's slightly leaned on canon facts.

#10 Octorok

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 05:23 PM

Why shouldn't the Triforce be in any game before OOT.

Because it lies undisturbed in the SR by OoT.

We already know why the ToP ends up in Ganon's hands by the time of LoZ--he stole it--as usual

I know how he got it, the question is how it got out from the bottom of the Great Sea.

And also, if I were you, I would switch FS-FSA with LttP-LA, because it better explains Ganon's origins.

#11 Fyxe

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 06:24 PM

...OoT explains the origins of the Dark World. I dislike this timeline just for that simple fact. I'm not even going to start listing *all* the problems with it, just a few that jump out.

It makes little sense if in the Imprisoning War/ALttP Ganon touched the Triforce with no trouble at all, but in OoT it split. It makes more sense if it split the very first time he touched it, and then he later just recaptures the final pieces, as is his eternal struggle.

Octorok, Ocarina of Time better explains Ganon's origins than ALttP or FSA.

#12 Octorok

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 07:06 PM

I know, I meant that FSA explains his origins better than LttP, and since I already pointed out the poor placement of OoT, I figured that I might as well not tell him to move it again.

#13 FDL

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 09:46 PM

...OoT explains the origins of the Dark World. I dislike this timeline just for that simple fact. I'm not even going to start listing *all* the problems with it, just a few that jump out.

It makes little sense if in the Imprisoning War/ALttP Ganon touched the Triforce with no trouble at all, but in OoT it split. It makes more sense if it split the very first time he touched it, and then he later just recaptures the final pieces, as is his eternal struggle.

Octorok, Ocarina of Time better explains Ganon's origins than ALttP or FSA.


Yeah, but FSA has to be before OoT if it's the same Ganondorf. I know the Dark World is supposedly around by then(although it seems to me that the Dark World of FSA is just an alternate Hyrule, not an alternate AND twisted version) but nobody knows who Ganondorf is in FSA besides the Gerudo and they seem to act as though they know him personally. So I think it's possible the FSA Link and Zelda are the grandparents of OoT Zelda and it can just be retconned(I think people know what this means) that they were just attacked by a mysterious creature and didn't find out more about him., although that is confusing.

Still, in my eyes TMC-FS-FSA-ALTTP-LA and possibly the Oracle games are seperate from the others(although TMC and FS I may include before OoT in the OoT timeline)

#14 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 09:28 AM

Because it lies undisturbed in the SR by OoT.

I know how he got it, the question is how it got out from the bottom of the Great Sea.

And also, if I were you, I would switch FS-FSA with LttP-LA, because it better explains Ganon's origins.


Sorry but I can't switch FS-FSA with LTTP-LA. If I did that then the first half of my timeline would look like this: MC-IW-FSBS-FS-FSA-LTTP....etc. That wouildn't work for me, here's why. In between Ganon's inprisonment in the IW and the start of LTTP. Ganon has been sealed and unable to get out of the Dark World. If I placed FSA in between the IW and LTTP that would say that Ganon was outside of the Dark World in between the IW and LTTP, but there's proof he wasn't:

(Maiden in Swamp Palace)That is why it was hidden in
the Golden Land. Only a select
few were told of its location,
but at some point that
knowledge was lost...
The person who rediscovered
the Golden Land was
an evil thief named Ganondorf.
Luckily,he couldn't figure out
how to return to the Light



So FSA coming before LTTP FSA wouldn't work for this. Also, as you've pointed out to me before, it'll be hard to place FSA before the IW since Golden Land wasn't referred to being a Dark World until the IW, before then it was a renowned sacred place. (of course if can always go back to being that way during times of piece).

Because it lies undisturbed in the SR by OoT.

In my timeline, by the time OOT occurs, the sacred realm is in a state of peace and it's been that way for quite sometime, especially since there are now stonger stongholds (Light Temple) magic, and secrets which protect the Sacred Realm at this period. Also, tell me where the heck it says in OOT that the Sacred Realm was never corrupted before. It doesn't really say that it has been corrupted before either, but you're making it seems as if it's actually stated in OOT that it was never corrupted.

...OoT explains the origins of the Dark World. I dislike this timeline just for that simple fact. I'm not even going to start listing *all* the problems with it, just a few that jump out.



Baby gurl...LTTP also explains the origins of the Dark World with the story of the IW. OOT just elaborates on what was already said about it and goe into more detail about its creation (that's only because of the cinema and better graphics that OOT had). That's not a good enough excuse not to dislike my timeline.

It makes little sense if in the Imprisoning War/ALttP Ganon touched the Triforce with no trouble at all, but in OoT it split. It makes more sense if it split the very first time he touched it, and then he later just recaptures the final pieces, as is his eternal struggle.



It could've split on Ganon then as well, requiring him to hunt down the missing parts, just as he had to do in OOT, only that time he was sucessfull. The IW obviously didn't happen in a flash, it had to have taken years, before a final assault was launced against Ganon. Nothing is mention of a green clad hero, as some other backstories do in Zelda games, so when it split there's no chosen one around or one to be found to claim the ToC. As for ToW it could've still gone to the princess of that time, but with no hero to protect his piece or all of Hyrule, it probably wasn't a hard task for Ganon to eventually gain the ToW. In the legend, to make it short, only important parts that needed to be heard were mentioned.

#15 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 12:41 PM

This timeline is sooo messed up and wrong. I'm not even going to try picking it apart.

#16 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 01:38 PM

This timeline is sooo messed up and wrong. I'm not even going to try picking it apart.


"Wrong"? Why...because you don't agree with it? Go ahead try to pick it apart...and watch I have something to come back with anything you say. You're incapable of picking me apart--you never were a good debater...with all you straight and harsh lines, but nothing too elaborative. If you prove me wrong...then I'm just wrong I can take that. Also, lets get something straight, there is no "wrong" timeline...ever timeline is theory based until proven otherwise. So next time you comment in my thread, it is best that you step correct or just don't comment at all. Don't try me.

#17 Guest_Shoreham_*

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 02:17 PM

Without tryin to sound like a newbie, I'm having difficulty working out your abbreviations.
I assume IW is Imprisioning War, but I can't work out FSBS, FW and SZ :s:

#18 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 02:26 PM

Without tryin to sound like a newbie, I'm having difficulty working out your abbreviations.
I assume IW is Imprisioning War, but I can't work out FSBS, FW and SZ :s:


FSBS-Four Swords Backstory (this is the backstory to the orginal Fours Swords game for the Gameboy Advance



FW-fierce war, this is the war that happen before OOT, this is the war that OOT Link's mother died in, and when Link was handed over to the Deku Tree, to be raised amongst the Kokiri



SZ-Sleeping Zelda story mentioned in the AoL(Adventures of Link)backstory

#19 Fyxe

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 02:48 PM

Baby gurl...


I'm not even going to begin arguing with you. Drop the ego.

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 02:54 PM

Okay. Thankyou :)

#21 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 02:55 PM

I'm not even going to begin arguing with you. Drop the ego.



No ego at all, but if you think so I won't do things that u perceive as an ego trip...please proceed with your attempts to dismantle this timeline.

#22 Doopliss

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 02:57 PM

It could've split on Ganon then as well, requiring him to hunt down the missing parts, just as he had to do in OOT, only that time he was sucessfull. The IW obviously didn't happen in a flash, it had to have taken years, before a final assault was launced against Ganon. Nothing is mention of a green clad hero, as some other backstories do in Zelda games, so when it split there's no chosen one around or one to be found to claim the ToC. As for ToW it could've still gone to the princess of that time, but with no hero to protect his piece or all of Hyrule, it probably wasn't a hard task for Ganon to eventually gain the ToW. In the legend, to make it short, only important parts that needed to be heard were mentioned.

But he did make a wish, and in Ocarina of Time it's never mentioned that he did, apparently, he just touched the Triforce and it split. Anyway, this doesn't really affect the timeline.

About the Dark World, I think that it was destroyed and created at least twice. The first one in Ocarina of Time which was destroyed at the end of TWW (when the king makes his wish) and the second time it was created when Ganon gets the Triforce before the Imprisoning War and it's destroyed in ALttP. ALttP Dark World can't be the same as the one from Ocarina of Time because Ganon hadn't escaped from the Dark World since the Imprisoning War and TWW tells that he did after OoT. This, added to all the other incosistences that can't be solved even if the manual is translated correctly give enough prove that the Imprisoning War is not OoT.

By the way, welcome new member. ^.^

#23 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 03:04 PM

But he did make a wish, and in Ocarina of Time he didn't, he just touched the Triforce and it split.


I see what you're saying but either way he still touched it, in order to even attempt to make a wish. Just as King Nohansen had to touch the Triforce to make a wish, in TWW. Ganon has an imbalanced heart, so when he touches it the Triforce splits until he is able to assemble the other parts as a way of proving himself. Where as people with good balanced hearts won't have a problem with the Triforce splitting on them. (As in if they approached the whole Triforce, it won't split.)

#24 Doopliss

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 03:08 PM

Maybe Ganon had a balanced heart (we never know, there are wise but evil people), or no one was to possess the other parts, because he made his wish the first time he touched it.

By the way, I edited my post, so you may find interesting to reread it.

#25 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 03:42 PM

About the Dark World, I think that it was destroyed and created at least twice. The first one in Ocarina of Time which was destroyed at the end of TWW (when the king makes his wish) and the second time it was created when Ganon gets the Triforce before the Imprisoning War and it's destroyed in ALttP. ALttP Dark World can't be the same as the one from Ocarina of Time because Ganon hadn't escaped from the Dark World since the Imprisoning War and TWW tells that he did after OoT. This, added to all the other incosistences that can't be solved even if the manual is translated correctly give enough prove that the Imprisoning War is not OoT.

The realm or world that is the Dark World isn't destroyed it is simply changed. The realm that houses the Triforce (or usually) is the same realms in LTTP and OOT.

Ganon hadn't escaped from the Dark World since the Imprisoning War and TWW tells that he did after OoT.



This one of the reason I wouldn't place LTTP after OOT, there are other reasons but I elaborated on those in my first post so please refer to that.

#26 Doopliss

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 05:47 PM

Oh, well, what I meant by destroyed and created is that the Sacred Realm is corrupted and returns to its original form.

I still think that it would be difficult to explain how the Triforce could have gotten to the Sacred Realm before OoT.

#27 Hero of Slime

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 07:00 PM

The only problem with having OoT after ALttP is that it contradicts what the game's creators said.

#28 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 07:30 PM

I still think that it would be difficult to explain how the Triforce could have gotten to the Sacred Realm before OoT.

It's not difficult at all. You do remember the ending to LTTP don't you?

Here's something for you to think about. In LTTP Link defeated Ganon while inside of the Dark World. (let that stick in your head) And we know that it's there, because we see it there after you defeat Ganon. So at the end of LTTP, the Triforce is still inside of it's original realm, and with the defeat of Ganon, that realm goes back to a more peaceful if not neutral state. So why ask how did the Triforce get back into Sacred Realm at the start of OOT? No need to even ask--it never left to begin with. By the time OOT happen, the realm is in a state of peace so it's referred to as the Sacred Realm.

The only problem with having OoT after ALttP is that it contradicts what the game's creators said.



They always contradict themselves and when did they ever say OOT was before LTTP. Can you provide me with a quote?

#29 Hero of Slime

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 07:54 PM

They always contradict themselves and when did they ever say OOT was before LTTP. Can you provide me with a quote?


I was not arguing against your timeline, I was saying that game creator quotes are the the only direct evidence that say OoT is before ALttP and it is because of the game creators that most timeliners put OoT before ALttP. I however think a timeline can work with ALttP before OoT.

#30 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 08:02 PM

I was not arguing against your timeline, I was saying that game creator quotes are the the only direct evidence that say OoT is before ALttP and it is because of the game creators that most timeliners put OoT before ALttP. I however think a timeline can work with ALttP before OoT.


Oh ok I understand. Well, whoever believes that will have to provide me with some quotes that says this, and even if it were provided, this wouldn't be the first time the creators didn't follow through on what they say. I mean these are the same people who used a CGI scene at Spaceworld 2000, claiming it's the next zelda game to come out, but instead the next big thing was the cell shaded TWW (I have nothing against the TWW's image by the way)




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