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tMC and FS are the first two


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#31 29-Year-Old-From-Georgia

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 07:14 PM

So much for Zelda Storyline being super-serious. :huh:

Nope. Try reading some of the threads on TMC timeline placement.

I have and I don't agree. I think it'd make much more sense in the middle of the timeline.

#32 SOAP

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 07:26 PM

So much for Zelda Storyline being super-serious. :huh:
 

Hey kids, 13 is right! Spamming threads is extremely dangerous and should be left to the professionals.

#33 Fatgoron

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 07:58 PM

The fact that they refer to the Link from FS as Zelda's childhood friend Link, then you start the new game as Zelda's childhood friend Link really points towards Nintendo intending them to be the same Link - otherwise, you're just confusing the issue.  Notice that in TWW they never refer to the Hero of Time as being Link.

While it is a departure from the norm, there's still nothing else besides one circumstantial fact to suggest so.

The evidence pointing the other way is equally as weak, and a lot of people don't bother using the maps to aid timeline placement, or fanwank the changes in to fit their theories, but the FS, and FSA Hyrules feature significant enough differences for them to be seperated by a good many years without some kind of extreme intervention.

#34 29-Year-Old-From-Georgia

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 08:29 PM

Yes, but that's a gameplay thing. GBA FS would be boring if there was villages and castles and things. FSA, on the other hand, is good for it. Besides, they look nearly the same to me.

OMG! The dungeons change nearly everytime you play FS! It is obvious a sign meaning every different dungeon is from a different dimension and that for every individual dungeon there is a seperate timeline! Seriously though, I think anyone who thinks FS Link and HA Link are different are looking into it way too much. Nintendo's pretty much stated they're the same guy. Saying they're different is like saying OoT and MM Link are different people.

#35 Hero of Slime

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 10:00 PM

The map of FS only shows a small section off Hyrule.

I myself think that a game's geography should not be used in as evidence in timeline theories. The game creators change a game's layout for each game so the games are not predictable.

#36 coinilius

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 10:05 PM

The land that you see in FS can't really be compared to FSA anyway, though - you see only a very small section of Hyrule in FS, from a different angle entirely from the FSA map. Also, you can clearly see more land strecthing off into the distance curving around behind Death Mountain. FSA also shows land stretching around behind Death Mountain.

#37 SOAP

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 10:14 PM

While it is a departure from the norm, there's still nothing else besides one circumstantial fact to suggest so.

The evidence pointing the other way is equally as weak, and a lot of people don't bother using the maps to aid timeline placement, or fanwank the changes in to fit their theories, but the FS, and FSA Hyrules feature significant enough differences for them to be seperated by a good many years without some kind of extreme intervention.


What significant differences? Uncomparable maps? Big deal. Same Link. Same Zelda. Also, Link and Zelda from FS are mentioned in FSA's intro as if they were from recent history. Also, Link already knew what would happen by pulling the sword.

#38 Zythe

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 10:36 AM

So much for Zelda Storyline being super-serious. :huh:


Well, davogones is practically nonexistent and l-o-s rarely visits, which is why the forum is almost completely unmoderated and has turned from Contro levels of seriousness to very random threads in which MJ courts Fyxe.

And there is no way FS Link is FSA Link. I'm sorry but it's illogical and unneccesary, especially considering that whilst it's clear FS and FSA take place on the same land (see my FHSA map) the FS map is so much less developed. A couple hundred years in there, would make more sense.

#39 29-Year-Old-From-Georgia

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 11:13 AM

Zythe. You're not listening (reading, whatever.) Geography doesn't matter; the FS map is much smaller than HA. The manual pretty much says HA Link is FS Link, and there are refrences to it all throughtout the game. Could you at least consider it before you say you're way is right and our's is wrong? :P

#40 Zythe

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 11:22 AM

No, they are no inferences at all. Geography does matter, actually. So we can agree to disagree. Also, it seems you're not even listening to what I have to say, even with telling me to listen to you. It's irrelevant to theories anyway, but still.

#41 29-Year-Old-From-Georgia

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 11:23 AM

Yes, but geography is a gameplay thing. Nothing else. If it was exactly the same, that'd be boring, wouldn't it? Storyline details are a lot more important.

#42 Zythe

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 11:27 AM

No, it's not a gameplay thing. It's a storyline thing. You can tell the era of a country by its geography. Assuming everything from FSA is there in FS, but "invisible" is ignorant and frankly, very stupid.

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#43 29-Year-Old-From-Georgia

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 11:33 AM

Zythe, I don't see you're point. The two maps look nearly the same.

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#44 Zythe

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 11:35 AM

That's my point. Same space seperated by time. You can see one is undeveloped and the other one is LttPesque.

EDIT: On the superimposed map, you can see two halves of North Hyrule. Also proving the other theory davo and I share. And we both use geography strictly.

#45 Fyxe

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:04 PM

WHY should geography matter, pray tell?

What with this being a game and all.

And Zythe, you're rather up yourself. I have made a vast number of serious storyline posts in here. Lighten up for five seconds.

One more comment...

It takes hundreds of thousands of years for the geography of a country to physically change so much. So unless the timescale of the Zelda series is over, I don't know, a million years rather than a few thousand years, the whole geography arguement is null anyway. It's a gameplay element. The makers aren't going to stick to the same layout if they don't want to.

#46 Zythe

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:15 PM

Bold indicates additions by me.

1.WHY should geography matter, pray tell?

What with this being a game and all.

2. And Zythe, you're rather up yourself.  I have made a vast number of serious storyline posts in here.  3. Lighten up for five seconds.


1. Because it's something to do with the storyline. That's what we're doing. Observing the storyline. Pay some attention.

2. I am not up myself at all, you pretentious ...

Ahem.

And I'm aware you and MJ have made many, many serious posts. But it's when you (mainly MJ) hijack all the running threads to be about him wanting to bone you that I get pissed off.

3. Sure. This work, missy?

It takes hundreds of thousands of years for the geography of a country to physically change so much. So unless the timescale of the Zelda series is over, I don't know, a million years rather than a few thousand years, the whole geography arguement is null anyway. It's a gameplay element. The makers aren't going to stick to the same layout if they don't want to.



While I am aware the creators are asshats, I do not think building a few cities need take more than a few decades. The stuff like "Hyrule deflooding" and stuff, are at risk of being flyswatted by your argument, though.

#47 Fyxe

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:23 PM

...A few cities? I'm sorry, however you swing it, the layout of Hyrule changes dramatically from game to game, from forests and lakes moving from one side of Hyrule to another, from volcanos vanishing into thin air, to all sorts of other crap. It's more than just a few cities.

1 - You missed the entire point. WHY is geography important to storyline?

2 - Don't blame me for MJ messing about. And we don't hijack threads. If someone made a storyline point I would respond. It's not my fault if they don't bother.

3 - Have a medal for your wit.

#48 Zythe

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:29 PM

1. Because game to game similarities in locations, can be used to estimate how far apart games take place and so, in what order. And yes, it does change sporadically but the LoZ/ALtt/FS/HA maps can be visibly argued as similar as can the OoT/TMC/TWW ones. And going with the theory davo and I have, they are seperate countries anyway.

2. Funny. Continuing a thread without any points after it's died. What's the word for that again?

#49 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:39 PM

But how can you have a theory with Davo if he's nearly nonexistant? O.o And yea, we had an argument about this maps thing before. We came to the conclusion that Geography helps arguments, but it's not as important as story information like the Master Sword. It can only be used if it doesn't contradict anything. And yea, we also came to the conclusion that the FS map is the same of the FSA map, but downgraded. Or that we're looking at Hyrule from another angle so the villages are behind hills and stuff. If you compare the maps you can tell that the Death Mountains are adjacent.

#50 Fyxe

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:41 PM

1 - It's perfectly possible to argue that FS's map is similar to the map of FSA, if you have a bit of imagination and look at it from a different angle. Maybe the whole other side of Death Mountain, for instance? I see very little similarity between the LoZ map and the ALttP map. Clearly you're using a bit of imagination yourself there.

If you ask me, the only reason FSA's map is so similar to ALttP is firstly, because it doesn't actually matter to gameplay, and secondly, because it's just a reference to the same game that the whole style is based upon. The actual gameplay map whilst you're playing is quite drastically different from ALttP, however.

2 - Dude, for heaven's sake, if a thread is past it's best I let it die. Just lighten up a little.

#51 29-Year-Old-From-Georgia

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:42 PM

Of course, Zythe makes perfect sense. It's like how LoZ and AoL have different maps, so they must be centuries and centuries apart. And let's no forget how different TWW Hyrule Castle and OoT Hyrule Castle are, there must be at least three games besdies MM between the two.

Honestly, Zythe, it's a gameplay element. And they are nearly exactly the same. The maps look almost exactly the same, except HA covers a bigger area. I see no difference between the two, and if geography is so important, it would make perfect sense that they are right next to each other, only a few years or so apart.

And besides, if we believed every little detail mattered, TWW, FS, HA, and TMC Link are all the same person.

#52 Zythe

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:48 PM

But how can you have a theory with Davo if he's nearly nonexistant? O.o And yea, we had an argument about this maps thing before. We came to the conclusion that Geography helps arguments, but it's not as important as story information like the Master Sword. It can only be used if it doesn't contradict anything. And yea, we also came to the conclusion that the FS map is the same of the FSA map, but downgraded. Or that we're looking at Hyrule from another angle so the villages are behind hills and stuff. If you compare the maps you can tell that the Death Mountains are adjacent.


No. You came to those conclusions by yourself. I did not agree one bit.

If you ask me, the only reason FSA's map is so similar to ALttP is firstly, because it doesn't actually matter to gameplay, and secondly, because it's just a reference to the same game that the whole style is based upon. The actual gameplay map whilst you're playing is quite drastically different from ALttP, however.

Or you know, a reason as opposed to a copout.

Of course, Zythe makes perfect sense. It's like how LoZ and AoL have different maps, so they must be centuries and centuries apart. And let's no forget how different TWW Hyrule Castle and OoT Hyrule Castle are, there must be at least three games besdies MM between the two.



FFS. I never said that LoZ and Aol are the same.

Honestly, Zythe, it's a gameplay element. And they are nearly exactly the same. The maps look almost exactly the same, except HA covers a bigger area. I see no difference between the two, and if geography is so important, it would make perfect sense that they are right next to each other, only a few years or so apart.

Um... no. Uh. It would make the crappiest and most redundant, pointless plot if the works of FS were undone within a few years. It makes the ending useless and the game itself, pointless if "oh look it didnt' matter anyway".

And besides, if we believed every little detail mattered, TWW, FS, HA, and TMC Link are all the same person.



People who look alike are different from countries that look quite different (as in, different points in history) from eachother. Oh my God, you're right - Henry VIII did die the year before Blair got into power... the countries look similar enough!

#53 29-Year-Old-From-Georgia

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:54 PM

Um... no. Uh. It would make the crappiest and most redundant, pointless plot if the works of FS were undone within a few years. It makes the ending useless and the game itself, pointless if "oh look it didnt' matter anyway".

What in the world does that mean? "Undone?" Because Vaati is released? Yeah, the game never happened.

#54 Zythe

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:57 PM

What I'm saying is, if what you're saying is right, then both FS and FSA are terribly written. For Link to stop Vaati and free him like it didn't matter, when he could have just ... not shows no character development. In OoT and MM, and in TWW, Link developed and his character changed in one way or another. For Link to just not realise what drawing the sword would do, and then have everything he already knew explained to him, is stupid.

#55 29-Year-Old-From-Georgia

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:59 PM

But Link did know Vaati would be released when he pulled the Four Sword in HA. They game literally said that. It must be FS Link.

#56 Fyxe

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 01:01 PM

Or you know, a reason as opposed to a copout.


I gave a reason. Now you're just being an ass. I gave a reason, a reason that actually remembers that hey, IT'S A FREAKIN' GAME.

#57 Zythe

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 01:06 PM

But Link did know Vaati would be released when he pulled the Four Sword in HA. They game literally said that. It must be FS Link.


Whatever. Wait for that Fatgoron.

I gave a reason. Now you're just being an ass. I gave a reason, a reason that actually remembers that hey, IT'S A FREAKIN' GAME.


Cheers for that. Remember, everyone, if I argue with you here it's nothing personal. Whatever it says in Wolf O'Donnel's signiature applies here. Don't hate me, guys.

#58 29-Year-Old-From-Georgia

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 01:11 PM

We don't hate you... you're just not listening.:linkouch:

There's no evidence for FS Link and HA Link being different guys, but there's ton of evidence for them being the same. Problem solved. :)

#59 SOAP

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 01:22 PM

I don't hate you nor do I take your posts personally. I do think you are reading too much into the simplicity of FS's map though. There are far more differences between the different maps of the Mushroom Kingdom--which has gown from a hilly grass feild to a group of seven virtually different kingdoms divided by water to to a high altitde cliffside of a chain of islands to a nearly sea level edge of a larger continent--and yet no one claims there's multiple Mario because of it.

#60 Hero of Slime

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 02:35 PM

Both of those overworld maps are not to scale. They are only intended to show the location of the of the game's levels.




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