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TWW Link realted to OoT Link?


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#91 SOAP

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 07:23 PM

Um...>.> Aryll was caught completely on accident. She was mistaken for Tetra. I doubt Ganondorf did or even could've known that Link was related to his captors. Unless he interrogated the girls or something, and Aryll was like "My brother will stop you." But that doesn't seem to be the case. He probably just held up his Triforce peice and threw them in a cage when it didn't resonate. However, he might've kept them alive to lure in the Heroic, Honorable Link ^^


Yes, Aryll was captured completely by accident. He thought she was Zelda but she ended up being something just as important. If he didn't know she was his sister he would hvae made that connection when Link up and stormed his fortress from out of nowhere. Twice. People don't just randomly fly into the face of danger like that unless they were either very stupid or they had some sort of connection with one of the girls. He probably didn't know which of the girls was his sister but he knew as long as he kept them alive Link would come to him.

The only thing is that after Link stormed his palace, Ganon just had him flung into the ocean, as if Link wasn't even worthy of being killed. When Link comes back with the Master Sword he seems to get worried a little but not much when he realized it wasn't even powered up. Regardless, his interest in Link seems to have changed. I think at this point is where Ganon starts suspecting Link might be a descendant of the Hero of Time.

#92 Chaltab

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 09:20 PM

I think at this point is where Ganon starts suspecting Link might be a descendant of the Hero of Time.


Which he isnt. But he is the new Hero, and the new weilder of the Triforce of Courage. Ganondorf must know something is up when he rushes in their with the Master Sword. As Sheikah says, the Master Sword choses the hero.

#93 TSA

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 12:01 AM

I want to know why the King was shocked when the Triforce of Courage went "into" Link...

As you remember, only ones chosen by destiny retain a piece of the Triforce...so was Link, Hero of Winds, the chosen one? If so, that makes him a descendant of the Hero of Time.

I know the Hero of Time, reborn, is a saying by Ganondorf, not literall...

But it did seem like Ganondorf knew something of the "a hero will appear when a great evil threatens the land" prophecy...he was "waiting" for the "hero". As he says before the Puppet Ganon fight.

Just like the Sages in TWW are descendants of the "save" bloodline (not necessarily direct relatives of ancient sages), so is Link, Hero of Winds descendant of the Hero Bloodline.

Perhaps it is that these people are not relatives, per se, but are born with the abilities and god-given qualities that determine their destiny.

So as the Sages had to be awakened...maybe...just maybe...the blood of the Hero must be, too? Link, Hero of Time was sealed for he was too young, no? We never are told really why...I mean...was it JUST age? Or was it he had to hear the awakening call as well?

Perhaps Link, Hero of Winds, had to hear that call as well. Perhaps he did NOT believe he was a hero until he saw it with his own eyes...the Triforce of Courage bestowed upon him.

Remember that issue with the Master Sword NOT having its glow in the Ganondorf battle cutscene? I suggested perhaps Link had a momentary lapse of courage? Perhaps it was Ganondorf was too powerful? Ganondorf overwhelemed Zelda, he could overwhelm Link, too? Perhaps when he lost his piece, and he was just Ganondorf, that is when the power returns to the Master Sword to destroy Ganon? I don't know...then why did it have power before? Perhaps it was just a mistake on Nintendo's part.

#94 SOAP

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 12:28 AM

Which he isnt. But he is the new Hero, and the new weilder of the Triforce of Courage. Ganondorf must know something is up when he rushes in their with the Master Sword. As Sheikah says, the Master Sword choses the hero.


Wait... I thought the creators were trying to deviate from that destiny stuff?

#95 Guest_Jabba_*

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 08:57 AM

I wanna know how WW Link weilds the master sword. OoT Link couldnt weild it at the age so why should it work for him? I assume hes no bigger. OoT Link had to be an adult to use it so why doesnt WW Link?

#96 mohammedali

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 08:57 AM

I want to know why the King was shocked when the Triforce of Courage went "into" Link...

I think it was just for a cimematic climax. They just wanted to show that this was a big event unlike finding another Triforce piece, Link now had the whole thing. I mean, I think anyone would be shocked at seeing that happen. It would be a bit lame if he said 'Meh, like I care about a frickin' triangle!'

As you remember, only ones chosen by destiny retain a piece of the Triforce...so was Link, Hero of Winds, the chosen one?  If so, that makes him a descendant of the Hero of Time.

The Triforce has nothing to do with the blood of the Hero of Time. If that was the case, the old man that was keeping the ToC till the end of AoL must ALSO be related to Link 'Oh look, it's the Triforce. Seems like Uncle Benny had it all along'.

I know the Hero of Time, reborn, is a saying by Ganondorf, not literall...

But it did seem like Ganondorf knew something of the "a hero will appear when a great evil threatens the land" prophecy...he was "waiting" for the "hero".  As he says before the Puppet Ganon fight.

A hero appears whenever the royals are in trouble who is of the bloodline of the knights. Hence, WW Link is of the bloodline of the Knights but not necesserally of the bloodline of OoT Link.

Just like the Sages in TWW are descendants of the "save" bloodline (not necessarily direct relatives of ancient sages), so is Link, Hero of Winds descendant of the Hero Bloodline.

I believe he is related to one of the 'heros' (which mean one of the many Links). However, I don't think it is the OoT Link as he has no connection with this hero. The most obvious choice is TMC Link, as this Link has the same shield that WW Link inherits as a family heirloom. As well as this, I find that subtle hints such as TMC Link battling the Wind Mage Vaati, and then WW Link being the Hero of Winds is an obvious indication to his heritage. Seems likely that when the new storywriter was hired (which was after OoT), he decided to start a new line and told Capcom they could do some BS work on this new character direction.

Perhaps it is that these people are not relatives, per se, but are born with the abilities and god-given qualities that determine their destiny.

So as the Sages had to be awakened...maybe...just maybe...the blood of the Hero must be, too?  Link, Hero of Time was sealed for he was too young, no?  We never are told really why...I mean...was it JUST age?  Or was it he had to hear the awakening call as well?

The game states that Link was simply too young to be the hero of time. It seems that the Hero of Time is a title to anyone that can weild the MS and I stick by what I said about their being a Hero of Time before OoT, otherwise how could OoT Link look like the 'legendary hero of time'?. It seems there is an age that the hero has to be before he can be the Hero of Time. I think that WW Link was too young to be the Hero of Time and was instead the Hero of Winds. This is why I think there are 2 families. 1 is the Hero of Time family, and the other is the Hero of Winds family. It is possible that both are linked by the Hero of Men.

Perhaps Link, Hero of Winds, had to hear that call as well.  Perhaps he did NOT believe he was a hero until he saw it with his own eyes...the Triforce of Courage bestowed upon him.

Remember that issue with the Master Sword NOT having its glow in the Ganondorf battle cutscene?  I suggested perhaps Link had a momentary lapse of courage?  Perhaps it was Ganondorf was too powerful?  Ganondorf overwhelemed Zelda, he could overwhelm Link, too?  Perhaps when he lost his piece, and he was just Ganondorf, that is when the power returns to the Master Sword to destroy Ganon?  I don't know...then why did it have power before?  Perhaps it was just a mistake on Nintendo's part.

It seems that Link always needs a piece of Triforce to take on Ganon(dorf). Perhaps the only way Link could finish off Ganon was by using the MS when he didn't have the Triforce of Power to back him up. Still, it doesn't say much about his heritage.

I wanna know how WW Link weilds the master sword. It was too big for OoT Link so why should it work for him? I assume hes no bigger. OoT Link had to be an adult to use it so why doesnt WW Link?

It may be because Ganon was much more powerful in OoT and so Link had to be stronger then and hence had to wait longer. In WW, Ganon can't even turn into a large pig!!!

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 09:10 AM

LoL. But one thing i thought of was in OoT the sword was literally bigger than young link and i know you could say its a graphical thing but i wanna know how the Master sword could have transformed or got smaller (not to say that it did) What are the laws for it?

#98 mohammedali

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 09:16 AM

LoL. But one thing i thought of was in OoT the sword was literally bigger than young link and i know you could say its a graphical thing but i wanna know how the Master sword could have transformed or got smaller (not to say that it did) What are the laws for it?

The only answer I have to a sword changing sizes is:
Thuder, THUnder THUNDER CATS ARE HOES......

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#99 Husse

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 01:46 PM

The only thing is that after Link stormed his palace, Ganon just had him flung into the ocean, as if Link wasn't even worthy of being killed. When Link comes back with the Master Sword he seems to get worried a little but not much when he realized it wasn't even powered up. Regardless, his interest in Link seems to have changed. I think at this point is where Ganon starts suspecting Link might be a descendant of the Hero of Time.

Yeah, I think it would strike him funny when he sees THE ZELDA with him, and has him protected by his nemesis, the King of Hyrule, and the Wind Guardian. He has a long time to think it over, as well, when Valoo blows his casa to smithers.

As Sheikah says, the Master Sword choses the hero.



....of Time. The first hero, Hero of Time, had to be especially strong and important, methinks, and that was one person in history. But if "ye be pure of heart," (or just not evil,) I think it's fully possible to pick it up later, which leads me to a Triforce discrepancy below.

As you remember, only ones chosen by destiny retain a piece of the Triforce...so was Link, Hero of Winds, the chosen one? If so, that makes him a descendant of the Hero of Time.

Well, uh, I don't think so. WW Link didn't inherit his Triforce, he had to unearth it, bit by bit. He recieved it because he had all the pieces, it went into him because he deserved it. Just like Ganon getting the whole Triforce. No one's going to call him wise or courageous because he hunted down the other two pieces and got them. Destiny has nothing to do with getting an already "runaway" Triforce.

But it did seem like Ganondorf knew something of the "a hero will appear when a great evil threatens the land" prophecy...he was "waiting" for the "hero". As he says before the Puppet Ganon fight.


See first answer. He had a lot of time to think about it, and he figured out that A) Link is the new fated hero, or B) He is the long-time descendant of his nemesis. Darn ambiguity, we'll never know which.

BTW, in case I haven't made my position known in this argument, it's this: I don't know, but I don't think it's fair to draw conclusions.

I stick by what I said about their being a Hero of Time before OoT, otherwise how could OoT Link look like the 'legendary hero of time'?.

Whoa. Whoa. That's dumb. There is one Hero of Time. That's a given. The legend starts that when evil arises, a hero will rise to conquer it. That's future tense. And yet it's a legend. "Legend" doesn't always mean a past event. Aztec legend says that the world will end in 2012, did you know that? That's legend. So, thus, you are taking things literally, AGAIN, and completely fanwanking something through it.

It seems that Link always needs a piece of Triforce to take on Ganon(dorf).


Yes. That's a fact stated in OoT. It doesn't say much descendant-wise, though...:(

It may be because Ganon was much more powerful in OoT and so Link had to be stronger then and hence had to wait longer. In WW, Ganon can't even turn into a large pig!!!

That's a n00by conclusion...but probably right. Ganon has never been as strong as he was then, and the first hero is the most important.

The only answer I have to a sword changing sizes is:
Thuder, THUnder THUNDER CATS ARE HOES.....


......................

O_o

I don't know what you just said...

I think the first hero needed to be large and in charge, there being a true, evil, threatening, ruling presence then and only then, and Hyrule itself not being just an afterthought. WW Link wasn't of Hyrule, that was stated firmly, the moral OF the game, so I don't think the MS was worried about how big he was...or Ganon. He was also not the evil he was.

#100 Guest_Jabba_*

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 02:01 PM

LoL @ thundercats. But i just think it was too big for him to use regardless of who it chooses.

#101 EvilKingVaati

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 02:39 PM

It seems Link's family in the TWW bere possession of the Hero of Time's shield



His grandma basically said that the shield was from an ordinary warrior from thier family


so, no, he is not related, besides, they said that on a boys 16th birthday, he would hav to dress like the legendary hero, if he were related, then they would hav said to dress like his ansestor!

#102 Vazor

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 02:45 PM

They actually never say an age for WW Link. If anything, he's 12, becuase Anouma said so in an interview shortly before WW"s release.

I have no idea where you pulled "16" from.

#103 mohammedali

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 05:09 PM

Whoa. Whoa. That's dumb. There is one Hero of Time. That's a given. The legend starts that when evil arises, a hero will rise to conquer it. That's future tense. And yet it's a legend. "Legend" doesn't always mean a past event. Aztec legend says that the world will end in 2012, did you know that? That's legend. So, thus, you are taking things literally, AGAIN, and completely fanwanking something through it.

No. Because it doesn't say 'legend'.

:ph34r: Sheikh :ph34r:
"As I see you standing there holding the mythical Master Sword, you really do
look like the legendary Hero of Time".

In terms of English, the above statement makes the reference to a 'Hero of Time' that has the attribute of being 'legendary'. Having studies Natural Language Processing at Cambridge University, I can verify that this sentence is implying the existance of a character that OoT Link apparently looks like, and who is now a legend. Going by this quote, it would seem that there has been a 'Hero of Time' before Link. This is futher emphasised by the statement in the sentence which is that OoT Link LOOKS like the Hero, meaning there is a reference being made to this 'legendary hero'.

......................

O_o

I don't know what you just said...

I was referencing a sword from a cartoon that was perhaps before your time. It was called Thundercats (there may still be repeats).

His grandma basically said that the shield was from an ordinary warrior from thier family

No, she says that the shield was said to have belonged to the legendary hero himself. Who this 'legendary hero' is, isn't said - however, I doubt it's OoT Link for the reasons I have outlined in this thread.

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#104 Zythe

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 05:26 PM

No. Because it doesn't say 'legend'.

Sheikh
"As I see you standing there holding the mythical Master Sword, you really do
look like the legendary Hero of Time".

In terms of English, the above statement makes the reference to a 'Hero of Time' that has the attribute of being 'legendary'. Having studies Natural Language Processing at Cambridge University, I can verify that this sentence is implying the existance of a character that OoT Link apparently looks like, and who is now a legend. Going by this quote, it would seem that there has been a 'Hero of Time' before Link. This is futher emphasised by the statement in the sentence which is that OoT Link LOOKS like the Hero, meaning there is a reference being made to this 'legendary hero'.


No, Husse's completely right.

#105 mohammedali

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 05:34 PM

No, Husse's completely right.

As convincing as that sounds, I need a bit more of an explination why he's right ;)
I always thought that OoT Link was the only Hero of Time, but after seeing that quote I had to accept what it says. Unless the Jap translation says otherwise, it's simply something you can't change. It doesn't really work for me that well, but I accepted it because you can't make the facts up to suit your own ideas. The fact is that the statement suggests there was another Hero of Time, and unless the Jap version says otherwise, that is just the way is.

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#106 Zythe

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 05:56 PM

As convincing as that sounds, I need a bit more of an explination why he's right ;)  
I always thought that OoT Link was the only Hero of Time, but after seeing that quote I had to accept what it says. Unless the Jap translation says otherwise, it's simply something you can't change. It doesn't really work for me that well, but I accepted it because you can't make the facts up to suit your own ideas. The fact is that the statement suggests there was another Hero of Time, and unless the Jap version says otherwise, that is just the way is.

Mohammed Ali


What I meant was her logic was completely right, not that there were multiple Heros of Time. Basically, I was trying to say that it's completely open to interpretation.

#107 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 07:31 PM

So as the Sages had to be awakened...maybe...just maybe...the blood of the Hero must be, too? Link, Hero of Time was sealed for he was too young, no? We never are told really why...I mean...was it JUST age? Or was it he had to hear the awakening call as well?

Perhaps Link, Hero of Winds, had to hear that call as well. Perhaps he did NOT believe he was a hero until he saw it with his own eyes...the Triforce of Courage bestowed upon him.

Remember that issue with the Master Sword NOT having its glow in the Ganondorf battle cutscene? I suggested perhaps Link had a momentary lapse of courage? Perhaps it was Ganondorf was too powerful? Ganondorf overwhelemed Zelda, he could overwhelm Link, too? Perhaps when he lost his piece, and he was just Ganondorf, that is when the power returns to the Master Sword to destroy Ganon? I don't know...then why did it have power before? Perhaps it was just a mistake on Nintendo's part.

I like that theory, TSA. About the Master Sword, wasn't that because the Sages who powered it were incapacitated?

I wanna know how WW Link weilds the master sword. OoT Link couldnt weild it at the age so why should it work for him? I assume hes no bigger. OoT Link had to be an adult to use it so why doesnt WW Link?


Maybe it can change size and shape depending on the Hero's fighting style, like Soul Edge and Soul Calibur (ACK!!!)

I stick by what I said about their being a Hero of Time before OoT, otherwise how could OoT Link look like the 'legendary hero of time'?.

Prophecy.

Yes. That's a fact stated in OoT. It doesn't say much descendant-wise, though...

FSA, LTTP, OOX....

#108 mohammedali

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 10:10 AM

What I meant was her logic was completely right, not that there were multiple Heros of Time. Basically, I was trying to say that it's completely open to interpretation.

The way I see it, is that although the quote does suggest that Link resembles a legendary figure that once existed (or perhaps still does), it could have just been poor English on the part of the translators, who were trying to say something similar to what Husse was saying. Best bet would be to look at the Japanese version of that particular quote and see what it says. Can anyone here get hold of such information?

Regards,
Mohammed Ali

#109 Husse

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 05:37 PM

In terms of English, the above statement makes the reference to a 'Hero of Time' that has the attribute of being 'legendary'. Having studies Natural Language Processing at Cambridge University, I can verify that this sentence is implying the existance of a character that OoT Link apparently looks like, and who is now a legend. Going by this quote, it would seem that there has been a 'Hero of Time' before Link. This is futher emphasised by the statement in the sentence which is that OoT Link LOOKS like the Hero, meaning there is a reference being made to this 'legendary hero'.

There are grammatical INCONSISTENCIES in Zelda, boy. Legendary does NOT mean, "resembling something before it," in every case, and college meaneth nothing to me. I had the language skills of a college level kid in 4th grade and almost went to the National Spelling Bee twice, who is to say who is smarter or isn't because they have a diploma, and no one studies "tenses in translated Zelda" in college. I'm not kicking your theory because of English, good grief, I'm kicking it because you're bent on a theory using ONE English word and NO other evidence suggesting there was another Hero of Time...I mean...they call him THE Hero of Time...there was NEVER another one even mentioned. *sigh* Sorry for getting pissy, I just don't like uppity collegiate types.

I was referencing a sword from a cartoon that was perhaps before your time. It was called Thundercats (there may still be repeats).


Oh yeeeeeeaaaah, I remember Thundercats! Just...,not the hoes part. :blink: LoL.

No, Husse's completely right.

*Adds Zythe to list of "people who don't think I'm nuts."*

As convincing as that sounds, I need a bit more of an explination why he's right
I always thought that OoT Link was the only Hero of Time, but after seeing that quote I had to accept what it says. Unless the Jap translation says otherwise, it's simply something you can't change. It doesn't really work for me that well, but I accepted it because you can't make the facts up to suit your own ideas. The fact is that the statement suggests there was another Hero of Time, and unless the Jap version says otherwise, that is just the way is.


Okay, so he didn't say WHY I wasn't crazy, but anyway...

Quote? You got one word..."legendary." W....t......f?

Fine, I'll stop ridiculing you. Don't want to scare you away like I did Monique.

Prophecy.

LOOK everyone! A one-word conclusion that makes sense! Ooooooooooh....I'll stop now.

FSA, LTTP, OOX....


Oops, let me clarify. The statement doesn't tell us WHO his descendants were, just that the heroes had to have the ToC to survive.



While you're at it, Japanese obtaining people, can you get the Japanese translation for what King says in the cave...both of those would REALLY help. :)

#110 mohammedali

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 06:41 PM

There are grammatical INCONSISTENCIES in Zelda, boy. Legendary does NOT mean, "resembling something before it," in every case, and college meaneth nothing to me.

I didn't look at the word 'legendary' and then come up with the analysis I just gave. Looking at the sentence as a whole shows that there is a reference being made to someone other than Link or Zelda. If you follow the analysis above, you will see that it doesn't hinge solely on one word, but on the sentance and it's structure as a whole.

I had the language skills of a college level kid in 4th grade and almost went to the National Spelling Bee twice, who is to say who is smarter or isn't because they have a diploma, and no one studies "tenses in translated Zelda" in college.

I'm not doubting your abilities at spelling :blink: I was making the point that as part of my degree, I studied NLP for my course which is totally relavent to understanding ambiguties in English language and resolving them. Hence it is VERY relavent to 'tenses in translated Zelda'. I'm simply explaining that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to analysing a sentance, and the above sentence implicitly suggests what the analysis says. Upon analysis of this quote, I found it to be unambiguous as a sentance, however, accept that it's authenticity can be called into question. Therefore, whether it was placed there on purpose, or simply due to poor English, is another question altogether.

I'm not kicking your theory because of English, good grief, I'm kicking it because you're bent on a theory using ONE English word and NO other evidence suggesting there was another Hero of Time...I mean...they call him THE Hero of Time...there was NEVER another one even mentioned. *sigh* Sorry for getting pissy, I just don't like uppity collegiate types.

As I mentioned before, this isn't based on a word, but the whole quote. You can't deny what the quote states. Again, if it's an error of some sort then that's different, but right now there is no proof that it is (Jap translations welcome). Oh, and I'm not a 'uppity collegiate type'. You would really know it if I were as I wouldn't even bother talking to you about the issue.

Quote? You got one word..."legendary." W....t......f?

Fine, I'll stop ridiculing you. Don't want to scare you away like I did Monique.

LOOK everyone! A one-word conclusion that makes sense! Ooooooooooh....I'll stop now.

:lmao: I really wish you read my post's more carefully before as you really missed the entire point.

Mohammed Ali

#111 SOAP

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 07:50 PM

*Adds Zythe to list of "people who don't think I'm nuts."*


I don't think you're nuts either. But you are a girl... and well... We'll leave it at that.:)

#112 Husse

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 09:43 PM

Ooooooh...SMACKDOWN!

Alright, mo, I'm sorry, I wasn't looking at the right thing, I was thinking of your earlier mention simply using the word "legendary." I apologize. I'm sorry...in the words of Resetti, I kinda...scare people.

But, quotewise, I still think that the "legendary Hero of Time" refers to what people believed the legendary Hero of Time would look like. Sheik is saying, "Yep, he looks just like I'd imagined." Besides, how WOULD Zelda know what an ancient one looked like? She surely would've mentioned it to him in their first meeting. She doesn't get the hero business later at all.

"Something happened that I could've never imagined."

See?

#113 mohammedali

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Posted 22 April 2005 - 12:54 PM

Ooooooh...SMACKDOWN!

Alright, mo, I'm sorry, I wasn't looking at the right thing, I was thinking of your earlier mention simply using the word "legendary." I apologize. I'm sorry...in the words of Resetti, I kinda...scare people.

That's cool. No offence taken, and you haven't scared me... yet ;)

But, quotewise, I still think that the "legendary Hero of Time" refers to what people believed the legendary Hero of Time would look like. Sheik is saying, "Yep, he looks just like I'd imagined." Besides, how WOULD Zelda know what an ancient one looked like? She surely would've mentioned it to him in their first meeting.

Stories are ususlaly handed down in royal families. I take the 'Hero of Time' to mean the same Link that appears whenever the Royals are in trouble. As for where she would have seen him, it could have been any picture. For all we know, she could have seen the 'Hero of Men' in the castle (see TMC) and thought "Damn, Link is really looking like that Jesus guy" :P

Having said that , you could be right as it may be bad translation or even just poor grammer/wording. I would really like to know what the Japanese quote says *hint* *hint*

She doesn't get the hero business later at all.


"Something happened that I could've never imagined."

See?

This seems more like a reference to the entire situation. She thought she could control the Triforce and stop Ganondorf with it, but didn't think it through properally. As I said before, let's hope someone can provide a translation.

Mohammed Ali

#114 Husse

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:23 PM

Or...not. Where's that one chick who's really good with Japanese stuff?

*runs to manga board*




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