113 replies to this topic

[Husse]

If I say you and your granddad have no connection, you would say "WTF? he's my granddad, what more of a connection do you want". If I were to say you were a certain person reborn, you wouldn't know if you had any other relation to that person.

Uh....no. Even Zelda was related to the Royal Family, and she didn't know it. It is fully possible for Link's lineage not to be passed down.

Basically, how I interpretted it is, KoRL says "No, I haven't found him yet and don't ask shorty over here because he doesn't know either."

Yeah, no shit, Sherlock, that's my theory too. I'm still in question as to whether they are related, but I think it's a possibility, just not a given one.

Husse-The Triforce of Courage didn't leave Link because Hyrule thought him dead or something.

I'm sorry, I know that, that's not what I meant. I was saying, almost fake poetically, that Link, in LEAVING HYRULE'S DIMENSION, "died to Hyrule." The Triforce is an artifact of one dimension, and stayed there. It left him, because it couldn't fit through the filter, so to speak. I didn't mean people thought he was dead, that's like a deliberate fanwank. Sorry.

[Chaltab]

I think Husse is being discriminated against.

Still, Link in OoT didn't have any family, so how could he have descendants? If he stayed in Termina, then he had no children in Hyrule.

[MikePetersSucks]

I think Husse is being discriminated against.

Still, Link in OoT didn't have any family, so how could he have descendants? If he stayed in Termina, then he had no children in Hyrule.

no she isn't. I'm not discriminating againest her gender, race, origin, creed etc.

And you have a point. That's exactly how I feel. Any connections between these Links would be reincarnation.

[Chaltab]

no she isn't. I'm not discriminating againest her gender, race, origin, creed etc.

I was joking. Geez. And are you certain Husse is a female?

And you have a point. That's exactly how I feel. Any connections between these Links would be reincarnation.

Which Ganondorf almost states right after you kill the Puppet Ganon in TWW.

[SOAP]

Yeah, no shit, Sherlock, that's my theory too. I'm still in question as to whether they are related, but I think it's a possibility, just not a given one.

Hey now, Husse. Watch the the language, girl friend.

I think Husse is being discriminated against.

Still, Link in OoT didn't have any family, so how could he have descendants? If he stayed in Termina, then he had no children in Hyrule.

Yet MM's ending suggests otherwize.... Why would he want to stay their anyway... When Ganon was still a possible threat in Hyrule.

And how is Husse being discriminated against?

[Chaltab]

And how is Husse being discriminated against?

I was JOKING![I] Geez. I retract my statement.

As for OoT and MM, I agree that Link probably returned to Hyrule, but some people insist that he didn't so I was arguing it from their angle.

[SOAP]

The Great Fairy of Wind fall was said have visted that particular fountian many times before. I think they're just sayings. Link drink this soda. Or drive one of our cars. The Legendary Hero did.

But my opinions about Link's relation to the Hero of Time don't stem from Link's grandma, albeit that's what got me thinking about it... I already thought Link was a decendant of the Hero of Time. At the end of OoT, Ganon says he'd have his revenge on Link's decendants. At first I thought this was allusion to ALttP and it probably wasa. But then TWW comes out and you have a game that directly plays off OoT. Ganon has escaped and begins where he left off. But before he could get his hands on the remaining peices of the Triforce the Gopds flood Hyrule and he sealed within a time bubble...

But he escapes that too and sets up the Fosakened Fortress as his new base of operations. He starts kidnapping Hylian girls looking for Zelda's descendant since she would be the easiest to find.

Then TWW happens. Istead of finding Zelda he finds TWW Link's sister. When they come to their confontation, Ganon seemed pretty damn sure that Link was indeed the Hero of Time reborn. This could mean a blood reltaion or a spiritual reincarnation.... but a relationship nontheless. Link isn't just some average joe-schmoe that simmilar to the Hero of Time.

That's not Zelda's style.

Now Ganon may of not wanted to harm the boy like he promised to do with the Hero's decendants. But he didn't seem to want to hurt Tetra/Zelda either and her royal blood was never questioned! I don't think his priorities have changed though. It was always Triforce first, gloat, then time to kill the Hero once and for all. Link and Tetra are still kids. It would be easier just to subdue them and steal it from them than to waste his time beating the crap out of them. He probably would've killed Link and Tetra once he had gotten his wish. He would have no use for them after that.

[Chaltab]

But revenge wasn't on TWW Ganondorf's mind, as I've said before. He was really calm and all until Daphnes stole his wish. Then he flipped out and tried to kill Link.

[SOAP]

Uh, did you read my last paragraph or not? Link and Tetra are just a bunch of kids still. Fighting them would just waste his time when he could just slap them down and steal their peices from them. Killing them wouldn't be neccesary. He didn't kill them becuase he didn't want to. He just didn't have to. If Link were older and Ganondorf saw him more as a threat things would be different.

[Neon Z]

Then TWW happens. Istead of finding Zelda he finds TWW Link's sister. When they come to their confontation, Ganon seemed pretty damn sure that Link was indeed the Hero of Time reborn. This could mean a blood reltaion or a spiritual reincarnation.... but a relationship nontheless. Link isn't just some average joe-schmoe that simmilar to the Hero of Time.

That's not Zelda's style.

Exactly. It's not. Aonuma wanted a different hero for this game.

Can't you see that the entire point of WW's storyline was to have an hero who was not choosen by destiny?

Aonuma: Previously Link has been seen as simply born to fight evil, but now the new Link is an ordinary boy who, suddenly, becomes involved in an adventure.  

In past Zelda games, Link was still the ordinary boy but he was supposed to fight evil.

Mr Aonuma: And talking about the Link character in the Wind Waker, the game is a kind of unprecedented challenge for us in the Zelda series. The link character is an ordinary boy not destined to fight at all but was involved in an incident and forced to be involved in a role in the long history of Hyrule. (...)We thought that the sense of rescuing his little sister would be a good trigger for the ordinary boy to be involved in a new adventure. The new Link is the ordinary boy who now out of blue became involved in the adventure.  

Mr Miyamoto: (...)The link at the start of each game is an ordinary person but in the Wind Waker we described, the Link is a small boy you can find anywhere.

If anything, Ganondorf's quote just showed that he was living in the past, he only could think of the old times and Hyrule. He couldn't accept that anyone but the Legendary Hero would be able to oppose him...

[SOAP]

Uh... I already commented on that. If you want to run around in circles that's your thing. But I'm not going to repeat myself over and over. It's just useless.

[Neon Z]

Uh... I already commented on that. If you want to run around in circles that's your thing. But I'm not going to repeat myself over and over. It's just useless.

No, you didn't. You commented one sentence, completely ignoring the others.

Here, let's see some of your posts again:

It just proves they wanted TWW Link to start out as an ordinary boy, which does, whereas Link already had his destiny hurled on top of him from the start of the game which is something athat has happened to all the Links since AoL. My guess is that they were wanting go for more a LoZ direction where Link is hero because he choses to be, not because the Gods preordained it.

That's wrong. This clearly explains the difference between the other Links and WW's:

In past Zelda games, Link was still the ordinary boy but he was supposed to fight evil.

He clearly is stating that every other Link starts as an ordinary person, but he has a destiny, he'll need to fight against Evil.

It's not matter of starting as an normal boy and only later learning his destiny, WW Link was an ordinary boy who made his own path.

Link isn't just some average joe-schmoe that simmilar to the Hero of Time.

That's not Zelda's style.

Do you want to know what you ignored?

the Link is a small boy you can find anywhere.

new Link is an ordinary boy who, suddenly, becomes involved in an adventure.

And I could go on and on. Aonuma stated several times that WW Link is just an ordinary boy who became involved with the adventure because his sister was kidnapped. Unless you're saying that every boy in the great sea has some relation to the Hero of Time, I don't see how someone who carried his blood, or soul, could be considered "ordinary" and unrelated to the legend.

[SOAP]

To reply, not to reply. Well looks like I already did, and I wasted a post, much like you.

I told you people I'm not going keep arguing the same stuff over and over. If you don't want to accept my arguement valid as is and move on then I guess I don't have to accept your interpretations of what the creators did or did not say.

[Husse]

Still, Link in OoT didn't have any family, so how could he have descendants? If he stayed in Termina, then he had no children in Hyrule.

Back up the vegetable truck! Didn't he return to Hyrule? What makes you sure he stayed in Termina?

I was joking. Geez. And are you certain Husse is a female?

I am....I think....I hope? *checks* Whew. I'm good.

Now Ganon may of not wanted to harm the boy like he promised to do with the Hero's decendants. But he didn't seem to want to hurt Tetra/Zelda either and her royal blood was never questioned! I don't think his priorities have changed though. It was always Triforce first, gloat, then time to kill the Hero once and for all. Link and Tetra are still kids. It would be easier just to subdue them and steal it from them than to waste his time beating the crap out of them. He probably would've killed Link and Tetra once he had gotten his wish. He would have no use for them after that.

That and he's crazy....and if he'd killed you, there'd be nowhere to go after that in the game...and I still stick with my theory that the Triforce leaves a body when he dies. It's possible to take it after that, but you have to do it decently quick. In my OoT fic, when Link dies, that's when Ganon *almost* takes it, so I think you can get it after someone's croaked, but if you don't, it leaves. Make sense?

But revenge wasn't on TWW Ganondorf's mind, as I've said before.

I coveted that wind, I suppose.

Let the harsh rays of the sun burn forth.

Give Hyrule...TO ME!

How is this not vengeance? Watch Count of Monte Cristo. You can have vengeance on the brain and be calm, cool, and collected.

Can't you see that the entire point of WW's storyline was to have an hero who was not choosen by destiny?

They're ALL destined in some way. "Whenever evil rises, a hero is called to defeat it." Destiny. The point of Aunoma's is, all these heros didn't just take heroism and be all noble, bold, and cliche' with it. They were kids, and they did what they had to do, not to be heroes, but for some little motive that became a legend.

"Save the forest/ dead Deku Tree."

"Get my horse back. (and my humanity....and that little trinket.)"

"Save my sister."

And so on.

He clearly is stating that every other Link starts as an ordinary person, but he has a destiny, he'll need to fight against Evil.

Whoops. Yeah, that's what I meant...oh well, heh heh.

Can we...stop arguing the particulars, biting each other's heads off, and just agree that every Link is a good old shmuck who's born with a destiny, and the courage to live up to it? Yeah, that'll work...

[SOAP]

I am....I think....I hope? *checks* Whew. I'm good.

Ah, that's too bad really.

[Chaltab]

Uh, did you read my last paragraph or not? Link and Tetra are just a bunch of kids still. Fighting them would just waste his time when he could just slap them down and steal their peices from them. Killing them wouldn't be neccesary. He didn't kill them becuase he didn't want to. He just didn't have to. If Link were older and Ganondorf saw him more as a threat things would be different.

I completely agree. But feeling things are a threat and revenge arent' the same thing. If vengeance had been on TWW Ganondorf's mind, then he would have taken pleasure in killing them. We aren't contradciting each other hear, Mario. I said he wasn't actively seeking revenge., not that he had a moral qualm with killing them.

And by extension, his line in OoT about Link and the Sages descendeants could still refer to AlttP when he did indeed desire their collective death.

[Husse]

But it's more plausible that it meant WW, because OoT was a prequel created after Alttp, and WW soonafter, keeping the new prequel information in mind.

[SOAP]

If TWW Link isn't related to OoT Link then why should there be any relation between any of the Links. In fact, there's nothing to say there's any relationship between one Link and another. ALttP Link was related to the Knights of Hyrule and was the last of their kind. That's why he was fated to save Zelda. Not because he was related to another Link. And LoZ Link was just as ordinary a boy as TWW Link with no ties with any legendary hero whatsoever.

[TSA]

You know...as I was doing my speed run...at the very end, Link shows the Triforce of Courage to the gods...

All of a sudden, it GOES into his hand, and the KING is shocked. As in, he did not expect that to happen. He then realizes (this is my interpretation of the narrative now that I've seen it about 30 times) that Link IS the TRUE HERO - aka, I think the King realizes he is actually descendant of the Hero of Time - or is another incarnation of him.

So I now firmly believe everyone before just didn't realize it was the true hero, and that this Link, the Hero of Winds, is a direct relative of the Hero of Time.

Also - it is painfully obvious Tetra knows about the Triforce, the Master Sword, and Hyrule. I do not believe she knew SHE was a princess, or if she did, she was in denial or forgot about it because she was a pirate all her life. But it is blantantly obvious over the game she knows what is up.

She was really searching for the Pearls herself...

[mohammedali]

If TWW Link isn't related to OoT Link then why should there be any relation between any of the Links. In fact, there's nothing to say there's any relationship between one Link and another. ALttP Link was related to the Knights of Hyrule and was the last of their kind. That's why he was fated to save Zelda. Not because he was related to another Link. And LoZ Link was just as ordinary a boy as TWW Link with no ties with any legendary hero whatsoever.

You're right about aLttP. He may not be a desendant of OoT Link. However, the family shield that aLttP Link has is the same as the one in OoT, and I think I recall someone saying OoT looks at the other games ancestors but don't quote me on that.

As for NES Link, he is stated as being a desendant of aLttP for definate. This can be seen at the back of the aLttP box which says the adventure looks at the ancestors of the Link and Zelda in the NES games.

I've said this other times but:

There is ZERO proof that Link returned from Termina.

You really need to play MM again. The woods that Link starts in that he passes DEFINATELY before entering Termina are exactly the same as the ones he ends up in after finishing the game. The game not only implies he plans to go back to Hyrule, but also shows him in the same place he started in Lost Woods we that we KNOW are part of Hyrule.

snip

This isn't proof but just your interpretation, which is fine but doesn't prove anything. The fact is that it cannot be infered from the game that they are related at all. Also note that being a hero reborn doesn't have to have anything to do with who your desendants are. This is a point you seem to have missed.

Mohammed Ali

[SOAP]

I've said this other times but:

There is ZERO proof that Link returned from Termina.
First of all there are to spots where Link may have entered the other demension:
when he ran through and fell off the tree trunk
OR
When the hallway twists

Both of them could have been the "point" where Hyrule and Termina "intersect."
At the end of MM, the game shows Link in the Lost Woods.
However after both of the points where Hyrule and Termina intersect, there is a wooded area.

We don't know if Link was standing in Hyrule or Termina, since the Lost Woods seems to be part of both of them.

We know the Skull Kid in MM is the one that you played Saria's song for in OoT.
After beating Majora the skull kid comments that Link looks a lot like that kid in the forest taught him that song.
So after the Skull Kid travels from Hyrule

If Lost Woods intersect both worlds, wouldn't it make sense if that's where Link finds his way back in Hyrule?

You're right about aLttP. He may not be a desendant of OoT Link. However, the family shield that aLttP Link has is the same as the one in OoT, and I think I recall someone saying OoT looks at the other games ancestors but don't quote me on that.

Those sheilds didn't look the same either. Very simmilar aspects but not quite the same sheild. What ancestors? The Sages? Not even same race as the Hylians most of them. The only anestoral lineage there is Zelda, but that's a given.

As for NES Link, he is stated as being a desendant of aLttP for definate. This can be seen at the back of the aLttP box which says the adventure looks at the ancestors of the Link and Zelda in the NES games.

Actually, it something more like, "hear the story of the predessesors of Link and Zelda." Predessesor is an EXTREMELY ambiguous term. It could just mean a Link and Zelda that came before them. Without any further evidence to tie them, there's nothing to say the two Links are related.

[ESK]

Actually, it something more like, "hear the story of the predessesors of Link and Zelda." Predessesor is an EXTREMELY ambiguous term. It could just mean a Link and Zelda that came before them. Without any further evidence to tie them, there's nothing to say the two Links are related.

Well, put it this way. What are the chances of at least four boys with the same facial features, colour hair, costume and name not being related, regardless of what time they live in?

[Husse]

Well, if the hero looked different every game, it wouldn't be part of the Zelda-ness of it. That's a weak point. He looks similar because that is the character of the Zelda games. This isn't Final Fantasy after all...doesn't mean they're all related.

[SOAP]

Well, put it this way. What are the chances of at least four boys with the same facial features, colour hair, costume and name not being related, regardless of what time they live in?

Fair enough. Lemme ask you this then: What are the chances of out of about a dozen Links with very simmilar features and roles throughout history that only one of them in the middle isn't related to them and the rest after him are related to the one before him? To me, that does not make sense. Maybe, if he was like, the last one, maybe I'd buy it. All this talk about the creators want TWW Link to be just an ordinary boy who wasn't bound by destiny does not mean that Link isn't related to the Hero of Time. LoZ Link was also an ordinary boy as well. Yet no one doubts his connection with the other Links.

All we have to go by is what is in the games that come before them in the storyline. I go by the line by Ganon saying that he'd have his revenge on their decendants. This might have been originally an allusion to ALttP. But now we have TWW and just because it comes next does not erase Ganon's last words. Nor does it mean he changed his mind in TWW but then changed it back just in time for ALttP. I mean, really, c'mon folks. Do you people think Ganon would put something like revenge on the back burner when he just finally got free. Especially when finding the two other peices of the Triforce meant finding the descendants of the ones who sealed him up in the first place? I don't think his goals ever changed in TWW. Revenge was still in his mind as can be inferred by his "Red Wrath" in TWW's BS. Just his strategy was all that changed.

[mohammedali]

Actually, it something more like, "hear the story of the predessesors of Link and Zelda." Predessesor is an EXTREMELY ambiguous term. It could just mean a Link and Zelda that came before them. Without any further evidence to tie them, there's nothing to say the two Links are related.

I believe the Jap version states that they are the ansestors of the original (NES) Link and Zelda.

Fair enough. Lemme ask you this then: What are the chances of out of about a dozen Links with very simmilar features and roles throughout history that only one of them in the middle isn't related to them and the rest after him are related to the one before him? To me, that does not make sense. Maybe, if he was like, the last one, maybe I'd buy it. All this talk about the creators want TWW Link to be just an ordinary boy who wasn't bound by destiny does not mean that Link isn't related to the Hero of Time. LoZ Link was also an ordinary boy as well. Yet no one doubts his connection with the other Links.

It's not like that at all. You need to consider that the story writer for Zelda changed when WW was produced (and when Capcom started entering the games). Hence, it seems understandable that he wanted to start a new line of games. Here is how I see the families.

Hero of Time Line: OoT Link -> aLttP Link -> NES Link
Hero of Winds Line: TMC Link -> WW Link -> FS Link
It may be a case that the Hero of Men is an ancestor of both these 'families'

It seems to me at least, that with TMC Link being given the EXACT same shield that was seen in WW as a family heirloom suggests they may be related. It also seems that Capcoms choice of making Vaati a wind mage was a little hint towards what is to come (i.e. TMC Links desendant being the Hero of the Winds). The relationship between FS and TMC seems implied. Also note that all of these Links look the same in terms of artwork.

With OoT we see a similar shield as that to the one in aLttP (which has various different artist impressions on the shield so its hard to make a comparison). We also know that NES Link is a desendant of SNES Link. It has always been an unspoken assumption that these Link's were all related.

It is very likely that with the start of a new story writer, the old Link dynesty was replaced by a new one so that the stories could be more unique and different. I also think that it is possible that this was placed in another timeline (Adult Link timeline, where OoT Link can't have desendants), so that it could be independant of Hero of Time Family Line altogether.

All we have to go by is what is in the games that come before them in the storyline. I go by the line by Ganon saying that he'd have his revenge on their decendants. This might have been originally an allusion to ALttP. But now we have TWW and just because it comes next does not erase Ganon's last words. Nor does it mean he changed his mind in TWW but then changed it back just in time for ALttP. I mean, really, c'mon folks.  Do you people think Ganon would put something like revenge on the back burner when he just finally got free. Especially when finding the two other peices of the Triforce meant finding the descendants of the ones who sealed him up in the first place? I don't think his goals ever changed in TWW. Revenge was still in his mind as can be inferred by his "Red Wrath" in TWW's BS. Just his strategy was all that changed.

This is a point that seems to suggest the opposite of what you are saying.
1) Link is stated as entering the adventure by accident instead of destiny. This implies that he had nothing to do with the adventure before. If he was related to OoT Link, then Ganon's final statement in OoT means that all desendant of OoT are automatically involved in the adventure. The point the creators were making is that this Link WASN'T born into the whole affair.
2) Link sought out Ganon and not the other way round. If it was a case that Ganon was the one that found Link and said, 'I have finally found you after all this time', it may have suggested that Link was a desendant, and Ganon was trying to exact his revenge. Fact is that Link decided to go after Ganon and not the other way round. I mean, if Link was related to the Hero of Time, why didn't Ganon go after Link himself? I mean, he was abducting all the girls because he knew that Zelda was somewhere in the world, so why not try finding Link? Seems to me that Ganon isn't looking for any desendants of OoT Link which IMO is because he knows OoT Link doesn't have any.

Mohammed Ali

[SOAP]

I believe the Jap version states that they are the ansestors of the original (NES) Link and Zelda.

I believe it says the same exact vague line in the American version.

It's not like that at all. You need to consider that the story writer for Zelda changed when WW was produced (and when Capcom started entering the games). Hence, it seems understandable that he wanted to start a new line of games. Here is how I see the families.

Hero of Time Line: OoT Link -> aLttP Link -> NES Link
Hero of Winds Line: TMC Link -> WW Link -> FS Link
It may be a case that the Hero of Men is an ancestor of both these 'families'

It seems to me at least, that with TMC Link being given the EXACT same shield that was seen in WW as a family heirloom suggests they may be related. It also seems that Capcoms choice of making Vaati a wind mage was a little hint towards what is to come (i.e. TMC Links desendant being the Hero of the Winds). The relationship between FS and TMC seems implied. Also note that all of these Links look the same in terms of artwork.

With OoT we see a similar shield as that to the one in aLttP (which has various different artist impressions on the shield so its hard to make a comparison). We also know that NES Link is a desendant of SNES Link. It has always been an unspoken assumption that these Link's were all related.

It is very likely that with the start of a new story writer, the old Link dynesty was replaced by a new one so that the stories could be more unique and different. I also think that it is possible that this was placed in another timeline (Adult Link timeline, where OoT Link can't have desendants), so that it could be independant of Hero of Time Family Line altogether.

There is no conntection between TWW Link and those Links. Not even storyline-wise. They all look the same but that's about it. Capcom has a habit of raping perfectly good art styles.

Also, why can you write off difference between the OoT and ALttP sheild as being different artist impressions of the same sheild but not with OoT and TWW sheilds where the different art styles are even more obvious. To me, it just looks like they were trying to combine the OoT, ALttP, and LoZ sheilds into one.

This is a point that seems to suggest the opposite of what you are saying.
1) Link is stated as entering the adventure by accident instead of destiny. This implies that he had nothing to do with the adventure before. If he was related to OoT Link, then Ganon's final statement in OoT means that all desendant of OoT are automatically involved in the adventure. The point the creators were making is that this Link WASN'T born into the whole affair.
2) Link sought out Ganon and not the other way round. If it was a case that Ganon was the one that found Link and said, 'I have finally found you after all this time', it may have suggested that Link was a desendant, and Ganon was trying to exact his revenge. Fact is that Link decided to go after Ganon and not the other way round. I mean, if Link was related to the Hero of Time, why didn't Ganon go after Link himself? I mean, he was abducting all the girls because he knew that Zelda was somewhere in the world, so why not try finding Link? Seems to me that Ganon isn't looking for any desendants of OoT Link which IMO is because he knows OoT Link doesn't have any.

Mohammed Ali

Ganon has Link's sister. Link would eventually come to him. Once Link had his sister he could've turned his back on the whole affair. The fact that he still went after Ganon, to me, seemed to prove that it was his destiny all along to go after Ganon just like the Hero of Time before him. If not because he's blood related then because he is spiritual reincarnation.

[MikePetersSucks]

Um...>.> Aryll was caught completely on accident. She was mistaken for Tetra. I doubt Ganondorf did or even could've known that Link was related to his captors. Unless he interrogated the girls or something, and Aryll was like "My brother will stop you." But that doesn't seem to be the case. He probably just held up his Triforce peice and threw them in a cage when it didn't resonate. However, he might've kept them alive to lure in the Heroic, Honorable Link ^^