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TWW Link realted to OoT Link?


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#31 Zythe

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Posted 09 April 2005 - 06:44 AM

^ It was Gustav.

#32 Chaltab

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Posted 09 April 2005 - 04:27 PM

Thanks.

It seems like Nintendo is going with a German/East European vibe with these names. Are they the same in Japanese?

#33 SOAP

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 12:39 PM

I am saying that WW Link is not a desendant of OoT Link, though he does seem to be a desendant of 'the hero'. As the hero seems like a reference to any of the Links before WW, my GUESS is that he is a desendant of TMC Link.

If Link was the Hero of Time reborn like Ganon said, then this can still mean he has no biological link to OoT Link. i.e. reincarnation of some sort. Hence, this quote doesn't prove they are related. The quote from the King then shows us that OoT Link and WW Link have NO connection. i.e. they CANNOT be related. Both quotes are now resolved as much as possible with this explination.


There is only one 'Hero' mentioned in TWW's legends and that's OoT Link. Either TWW Link is his decendant or none of the Links at all, past, future and present. If Nintendo wanted to hint a connection with another Link then they would've made some vague reference to OoT Link being 'One of many heroes' and 'the hero' would've been replaced by 'a hero' leaving enough room to say that TWW Link is a decendant of a LInk yet to be mentioned. However, I doubt it can be anyone other than the OoT Link since TWW backstory has OoT Link saving Hyrule, then there was a period of peace void of evil, Ganon comes back, Hyrule floods. There's no room to put any future games in between.

Ganon still doesn't seem that close to Link, as he at best watched him from afar and only when he was a kid. It makes more sence that Ganon would be confused, and unaware of what happened to Link after he was beaten.

As far as fighting goes, note that WW Link and OoT Link the spin attack from completely different places, though the technique itself seems similar. It's not hard to be confused and think it is the same person based on how they fight (which is the only time Ganon and OoT Link spend some 'quality time' together).

Uh, if I wanted the power of the Gods and some boy was already doing the dirty work for me, I'll keep a close tab on him. I'd want to know everything about him there is to know. I'd want to be IN HIS HEAD. Ganondorf didn't lose interest in Link after he pulled the sword. When you go into his castle to confront him for the final time, you see that he's waiting for you! Ganondorf isn't stupid. If he knows enough of the legends he'd know that Link having the Master Sword meant that he was destined to defeat him someday. We know that Ganondorf still has an interest in Link because he leaves his phantom behind in the Forest Temple as a 'present.' Also, if he knew that Zelda had Wisdom, he'd know Link had Courage. All the more reason for Ganondorf to want to keep an eye on the boy.

And if that's not enough, Link, Ganondorf, and Zelda each have a peice of the Triforce. Because of that their destinies would forever be interwined throughout the ages. Therefore, the connection between them is stronger than anyone else. Ganondorf was looking for the one who would be the next Link because he knew that Link was the only only one who could destroy him. And he found him. Inside TWW Link.

It is unknown what relationship the King and OoT Link shared so such an assumption cannot be made. We do not even know how long after the great flood happened, or if the Royal family knew something others didn't (link Zelda sending Link back in time, if that created another timeline then perhaps the King KNEW it couldn't be his desendant).



Uh, King Daphnes wasn't even IN OoT! And even if he was OoT Zelda's father, he and Link never met in person. At all.

#34 mohammedali

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 09:46 PM

There is only one 'Hero' mentioned in TWW's legends and that's OoT Link. Either TWW Link is his decendant or none of the Links at all, past, future and present. If Nintendo wanted to hint a connection with another Link then they would've made some vague reference to OoT Link being 'One of many heroes' and 'the hero' would've been replaced by 'a hero' leaving enough room to say that TWW Link is a decendant of a LInk yet to be mentioned. However, I doubt it can be anyone other than the OoT Link since TWW backstory has OoT Link saving Hyrule, then there was a period of peace void of evil, Ganon comes back, Hyrule floods. There's no room to put any future games in between.

If 'the hero' is a reference to ALL characters that are named Link, dressed in green and save the day when the palace is in trouble, then no... they wouldn't say a hero, they would say the hero. Although these people are obviously all different (i.e. different Links each time), the legend people believes makes it out like it is the same person. Hence why Link is commented on looking like the 'legendary hero' in both aLttP and OoT (and maybe other games).


Uh, if I wanted the power of the Gods and some boy was already doing the dirty work for me, I'll keep a close tab on him. I'd want to know everything about him there is to know. I'd want to be IN HIS HEAD. Ganondorf didn't lose interest in Link after he pulled the sword. When you go into his castle to confront him for the final time, you see that he's waiting for you! Ganondorf isn't stupid. If he knows enough of the legends he'd know that Link having the Master Sword meant that he was destined to defeat him someday. We know that Ganondorf still has an interest in Link because he leaves his phantom behind in the Forest Temple as a 'present.' Also, if he knew that Zelda had Wisdom, he'd know Link had Courage. All the more reason for Ganondorf to want to keep an eye on the boy.

Even if this fanficed explination of 'When Ganon met Link' were true, it doesn't mean that Ganon's meetings with WW Link mean he can tell much about the connection between OoT Link and WW Link. Even if he COULD, all he says is that Link is Hero of Time reborn, which could simply mean that he is the one destined to take down Ganon when he tries to get the Triforce. Therefore, even at best, Ganons quote only implies they are related if you take it to mean that, as it could mean something completely different.
The only quote we have that talks about the relation between OoT Link and WW Link clearly STATES that there is NO CONNECTION between them. If you want to give a fan-fic reason as to why the King was saying that with confidence but was completely wrong, then that's your choice, however, the King seems to know his shit, and if there is a quote you can usually rely on, it's one from the Royal family. If you don't accept that, then you may as well question all quotes from people like Zelda, who are usually in the know.

And if that's not enough, Link, Ganondorf, and Zelda each have a peice of the Triforce. Because of that their destinies would forever be interwined throughout the ages. Therefore, the connection between them is stronger than anyone else. Ganondorf was looking for the one who would be the next Link because he knew that Link was the only only one who could destroy him. And he found him. Inside TWW Link.

This still doesn't prove anything about them being related.

Uh, King Daphnes wasn't even IN OoT! And even if he was OoT Zelda's father, he and Link never met in person. At all.

My point was that we don't even know their relationship. For all we know, Link may have commited suicide at 14, told Zelda first, who told her son Daphnes. I'm not saying that this is what happened, just that it could be ANYTHING. We can't discredit him on the basis that we don't know what he knows for definate because he is of the Royal Family and is clearly wise, and hence, his quotes MEAN something.

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#35 Husse

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 07:23 AM

Okay, wait. In reference to the FIRST question, I think that's a given. The shield you get, is, of course, the shield from MM...another supporting factor, might I add, for single-timeline theorism...OoT Young Link did come back to Hyrule, if his shield remains there, and this being Young Link to WW Link, there is one timeline...just a thought.

I can't honestly say whether the two are related or not. My intuition says no, but considering the shield and the pointy ears, it's possible. As a matter of fact, the only non-supporting evidence we have is the word of King, and Ganondorf's questionable "reborn" quote, which can be taken several ways anyway. Leaving us the word of King. Is it the same in Japanese, or faulty English elaboration? Does anyone have King's exact words to Jabun in Japanese? That would help.

#36 Neon Z

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 09:10 AM

Uh, the Great Deku Tree died in OoT. His knowlege was passed on to the Deku Sprout but the Deku Sprout didn't know Link personally. He just talked to Link once. That is, assuming that TWW Deku Tree is the DEku Sprout grown up and not some third generation Deku Tree, which seems more likely.


But the New Deku Tree knows everything that the old one did, so, yes, he'd surely know Link much better than Ganondorf... However...

What interviews. Provide quotes.

It's only one. Here are two different translations:

http://www.zeldalege...iya-aonu&m=html

http://games.kikizo..../200302/005.asp

Aonuma:Many people ask me why I chose to have Link's sister for the first time. We really wanted to have a motivation for an ordinary boy to get involved in a big adventure. We thought having to rescue his sister would be a good trigger.  

Previously Link has been seen as simply born to fight evil, but now the new Link is an ordinary boy who, suddenly, becomes involved in an adventure.
 


Mr Aonuma: And talking about the Link character in the Wind Waker, the game is a kind of unprecedented challenge for us in the Zelda series. The link character is an ordinary boy not destined to fight at all but was involved in an incident and forced to be involved in a role in the long history of Hyrule. People have asked "why did you choose to have a sister for Link this time?" The reason is a good motivation for challenge in a new life and a new adventure. We thought that the sense of rescuing his little sister would be a good trigger for the ordinary boy to be involved in a new adventure. The new Link is the ordinary boy who now out of blue became involved in the adventure.  



#37 mohammedali

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 10:25 AM

Okay, wait. In reference to the FIRST question, I think that's a given. The shield you get, is, of course, the shield from MM...another supporting factor, might I add, for single-timeline theorism...OoT Young Link did come back to Hyrule, if his shield remains there, and this being Young Link to WW Link, there is one timeline...just a thought.

Huh? the only thing those 2 shields have in common is that they both have a triforce on them and are both shields. I have attatched a picture for people to make a comparison.

I can't honestly say whether the two are related or not. My intuition says no, but considering the shield and the pointy ears, it's possible.

As the attatched image shows, the colour, style, and even shape of the shield in MM and WW are COMPLETELY different. As for the pointy ears, everyone has them so it's not suprising. There is no link between OoT Link and WW Link other than they wear similar clothes (and the reason why has been explained in the game).

As a matter of fact, the only non-supporting evidence we have is the word of King, and Ganondorf's questionable "reborn" quote, which can be taken several ways anyway. Leaving us the word of King.

Exactly.

Is it the same in Japanese, or faulty English elaboration? Does anyone have King's exact words to Jabun in Japanese? That would help.

I think that the quotes were taken from Hylian translations and are hence first translated into Japanese (as there wasn't a direct translation from Hylian to English).

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#38 SOAP

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 02:39 PM

I don't see how those interview quotes prove that the Links aren't related. It just proves they wanted TWW Link to start out as an ordinary boy, which does, whereas Link already had his destiny hurled on top of him from the start of the game which is something athat has happened to all the Links since AoL. My guess is that they were wanting go for more a LoZ direction where Link is hero because he choses to be, not because the Gods preordained it.

As for the Kings quote, I'm tired of having to repeat myself but I'm not trying denounce his quote. The reason he says there is no connection with the Legendary One is because everyone was looking for the actual person, Link because they thought he could travel whole eras. KORL knew Link was not that Link but a boy from an island looking for his sister. But that's pretty much the extent of it. Any blood ties would be unknown to anyone. Maybe KoRL thinks there can't possibly be a connection. But if there was any doubt about his connection with OoT Link it was cleared up by Ganondorf. Why throw in so much controversy over Link's connection to the Hero of Time and then finally have Ganondorf say that, yes, he is the Hero of Time Reborn? Why would his quote mean any less then KoRL when Ganondorf was the only from OoT Link's time that was even still around!?

#39 mohammedali

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 04:06 PM

The reason he says there is no connection with the Legendary One is because everyone was looking for the actual person, Link because they thought he could travel whole eras. KORL knew Link was not that Link but a boy from an island looking for his sister. But that's pretty much the extent of it.

That is just your take on it. When you hear 'no connection' you seem to think it means 'not the same person'. When I hear 'no connection' I think it means 'no connection'. To say 'no connection' means not the same person is a gross misinterpretation of the quote. As a quote, it is very unambiguous unlike Ganon's quote which can be interpreted in a multitude of ways.

Any blood ties would be unknown to anyone. Maybe KoRL thinks there can't possibly be a connection.

Again, this is just your take on it, with a lot of fanwanking. If you start using theories like 'maybe this is just what the King thinks but isn't true', then you can't get anywhere with the storyline.

But if there was any doubt about his connection with OoT Link it was cleared up by Ganondorf. Why throw in so much controversy over Link's connection to the Hero of Time and then finally have Ganondorf say that, yes, he is the Hero of Time Reborn?

The quote is ambiguous at best. It doesn't prove anything as it can be used to support both of our theories based on interpreation. The only quote that is both unambiguous and from someone who is wise is the Kings quote. For my theory it works perfectly without any presumptions, with yours however, this is far from the true.

Why would his quote mean any less then KoRL when Ganondorf was the only from OoT Link's time that was even still around!?

My point is that Ganon's quote could mean many things. It doesn't conclusively prove that OoT Link and WW Link are related. The Kings quote OTOH DOES conclusively prove that they are unrelated. Therefore, they are unrelated.

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#40 Husse

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 04:23 PM

That is just your take on it. When you hear 'no connection' you seem to think it means 'not the same person'. When I hear 'no connection' I think it means 'no connection'. To say 'no connection' means not the same person is a gross misinterpretation of the quote. As a quote, it is very unambiguous unlike Ganon's quote which can be interpreted in a multitude of ways.

No, he has a point...don't be so snippy. Almost everyone was looking for the true hero. That's who you'd want, after all. Deku Tree thought he was the hero, people continue to think of the legend, and pray for the hero to show them a way...not some hero's descendant...and Jabun has, apparently, very little faith in the newbie from Outset Island. In the Japanese, it could very well have been that this quote is similar to something like, this person is not tied to the one you are hoping for," or something to that extent. King's main focus in negotiating with Jabun seems to be telling him that this new hero is not the old. You can very easily take it any way.

Why would his quote mean any less then KoRL when Ganondorf was the only from OoT Link's time that was even still around!?


Are you sure? It's possible that King in WW is OoT's king. Is there anything saying otherwise?

My point is that Ganon's quote could mean many things. It doesn't conclusively prove that OoT Link and WW Link are related. The Kings quote OTOH DOES conclusively prove that they are unrelated. Therefore, they are unrelated.


No, it doesn't...see above. Just as Ganon's quote is ambiguous, King's could be too. They do have a different way of speaking. King is blunt and vague, Ganon is poetic and vague. And what's OTOH?

#41 mohammedali

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 04:54 PM

No, he has a point...don't be so snippy. Almost everyone was looking for the true hero. That's who you'd want, after all. Deku Tree thought he was the hero, people continue to think of the legend, and pray for the hero to show them a way...not some hero's descendant...and Jabun has, apparently, very little faith in the newbie from Outset Island. In the Japanese, it could very well have been that this quote is similar to something like, this person is not tied to the one you are hoping for," or something to that extent. King's main focus in negotiating with Jabun seems to be telling him that this new hero is not the old. You can very easily take it any way.

I'm not being 'snippy'. I am simply outlining what is clearly said in the game. Unless the Japanese quote says otherwise, it would make sence to take 'no connection' to mean 'no connection' rather than anything else that is backed solely by fanwanking.

Are you sure? It's possible that King in WW is OoT's king. Is there anything saying otherwise?

Actually, that's a good point. I originally thought there was said to be a time gap between OoT and the disaster, but I guess there isn't one stated.

No, it doesn't...see above. Just as Ganon's quote is ambiguous, King's could be too. They do have a different way of speaking. King is blunt and vague, Ganon is poetic and vague.

I don't know where you got this idea of the King being 'blunt and vague', but anyway... To say 'the Hero of Time reborn' could mean a multitude of things as it doesn't give much insight without understanding the nature of what Ganon meany by the word 'reborn'. To say there is 'no connection' OTOH is a definate statement as it specifies that there is no relationship between the 2 characters. From these 2 quotes we can infer that WW Link has nothing to do with OoT Link, but is the one destined to take down Ganon.

And what's OTOH?

On the other hand.

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#42 SOAP

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 07:06 PM

There's no point in arguing this anymore. We're just repeating the same crap over and over and nothing's getting solved here. You believe what you want. Personally I don't see the point in them pointing Ganon's quote in there about Link being the Hero of Time Reborn if that's not what they specifically intended all along. Now matter how ambiguous his line is, it still makes no sense to raise all these question about Link's connection to the Hero of time then throw in a line at the end, when everything should be more or less concluded, that would easily lead people to believe that there is a connection all along. How am I fanwanking? I am simply taking an egually logical intepretation of lines that could be interpretted either way. We don't have [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] to go on except logic. All we know is that when Ganon came, he came quite suddenly and Hero was unprepared because they thought the Hero of Time would save them just like last time. When they discovered that he wasn't going to come they fled their kingdom and left their land up to fate of their gods. Now logically, Hyrule would be in total turmoil then. If their was a linage, no matter how small, it would've gotten lost in the shuffle during the all the chaos. There would be know way anyone to keep track of the linage after that. Especially for someone who had been cut off from his own people for hundreds of years.

But if you want to talk quotes how about this one:

Ganon, after you defeat him:

YOU...

CURSE YOU...ZELDA!
CURSE YOU...SAGES!!
CURSE YOU...LINK!
Someday...
When this seal is broken....
That is when I will exterminate your descendants!!
As long as the Triforce of Power is in my hand....


That's a line straight out of OoT foreshadowing things to come. He said he wanted to kill Link's descendants and that's exactly what he was looking for in TWW. He wanted to settle the score once and for all. Why would he bother with some island boy unless he was sure that their was some sort of blood relation there with the person who sealed him up in the first place?

#43 Chaltab

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 09:56 PM

That's a line straight out of OoT foreshadowing things to come. He said he wanted to kill Link's descendants and that's exactly what he was looking for in TWW. He wanted to settle the score once and for all. Why would he bother with some island boy unless he was sure that their was some sort of blood relation there with the person who sealed him up in the first place?

When OoT was made, TWW hadn't been concieved yet. This was supposed to be a reference to ALttP Link and Zelda, who appearantly are descendants of OoT Link.

And in TWW, Ganondorf did not[I] want to settle the score! Weren't you paying attention? He wasn't interested in revenge, he just wanted the Triforce.

Remember after he beats Link up?

Do not fear. I will not kill you. I merely have need of the power that dwells within you.


It isn't until after Daphnes uses up Ganon's wish to destroy the Old Kingdom that Ganondorf flips out and tries to kill Link and Zelda.

#44 SOAP

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 10:38 PM

So being imprisoned made him angsty for a change. That didn't last very long, did it?

But seriously, whether TWW was convieved yet or not it is the legiment sequel to OoT therefore it would make sense for Ganon, once he broke free, to want to carry out the promise he made in OoT. And who's to say Ganon wouldn't kill Link after he made his wish? Getting the Triforce was a top priority but that doesn't mean revenge was no longer one either. He just didn't kill lInk then because he didn't want risk losing the TOC in the process.

#45 mohammedali

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 06:02 AM

There's no point in arguing this anymore. We're just repeating the same crap over and over and nothing's getting solved here.

I agree. I think it is best that we both believe in what we think is correct. I will keep to my point on this case so sorry if I seemed a bit harsh at times :blush:

That's a line straight out of OoT foreshadowing things to come. He said he wanted to kill Link's descendants and that's exactly what he was looking for in TWW. He wanted to settle the score once and for all. Why would he bother with some island boy unless he was sure that their was some sort of blood relation there with the person who sealed him up in the first place?

Good point. Which is exactly why it suggests they aren't related. The entire point of the game is that WW Link got involved in the saga even though he wasn't supposed to be involved (i.e. wasn't a desendant). He was on a mission to get his sister, then ended up trying to defeat Ganon and using the ToC even though he wasn't supposed to be part of the adventure. This was the point that Miyamoto-san was making in his interview (quoted somewhere above). If he was related to OoT Link, then he would have been sought out by Ganon himself rather than the other way round. Also, in the end of the game, Ganon would have killed him as he said he was going to in OoT. Having said all that, if you still don't believe me that's fine. I am more than happy with the quotes that support my arguement.

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#46 Chaltab

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 02:42 PM

When the game litterally says they aren't related, it is pretty hard to argue that they are.

#47 Husse

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 07:28 AM

It only says it once...ambiguously...and...

It isn't until after Daphnes uses up Ganon's wish to destroy the Old Kingdom that Ganondorf flips out and tries to kill Link and Zelda


Well, yeah, he HAD to keep them alive then, or he'd lose the Triforce...but after he would've made his wish, they would've been KAPUT! Obviously.

#48 Fatgoron

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 07:46 AM

Where would the triforce go if they died?

#49 mohammedali

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 09:51 AM

It only says it once...ambiguously...and...

An ambiguous statement is one that is not clearly defined. To say 'He has no connection with the Hero of Time' is clearly defined as we know what the word connection means (i.e. a link, which by definition includes blood relation).
To say 'You are the Hero of Time reborn' OTOH would be an ambigeous statement, as the term 'reborn' could have mulitiple meanings as it could suggest rebirth as being physical, spiritual, or something completely different.

Well, yeah, he HAD to keep them alive then, or he'd lose the Triforce...but after he would've made his wish, they would've been KAPUT! Obviously.

Not at all. If that was true, then why does Link always kill Ganon when he wants the Triforce? Surely by your logic, Link would lose it. To say he had to keep them alive goes against much of what we already know about Zelda.

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#50 Crazy Penguin

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 10:02 AM

In the original Legend of Zelda Link kills Ganon and takes his Triforce of Power with no problem. And didn't Ganon say that he would kill Link and take the Triforce of Courage from him in Ocarina of Time?

#51 Zythe

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 10:36 AM

Honestly, we don't know and it's really unimportant, because all the lines can be interpretted. All the sheilds are completely different.

#52 Husse

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 02:30 PM

Wait now, the Triforce is obtained BEFORE the wearer dies, because if he does, it leaves him to go to the next person.

Just like when Link died to Hyrule, by going to Termina, it left him.

Why is that wrong?

#53 mohammedali

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 02:48 PM

Wait now, the Triforce is obtained BEFORE the wearer dies, because if he does, it leaves him to go to the next person.

The point was that Ganon could have happily killed Link to obtain the Triforce and didn't need to keep him alive (seen from previous games where Link kills Ganon and takes the Triforce). Hence, if he wanted to kill Link's desendants and WW Link was one of them, then why didn't he?

Just like when Link died to Hyrule, by going to Termina, it left him.

Why is that wrong?

Link didn't 'die to Hyrule'. I never even heard that phrase used before. The game didn't even mention Termina for that matter. All it said was when the Hero of Time left the land to go on another adventure (some say Termina but it isn't stated as such), he was 'seperated from the elements that made him a hero'. What that means is anyone's guess, but it doesn't necesserarly mean he 'died to Hyrule', nor does it even directly suggest it. All we know for sure is that the Triforce can be obtained wheter the original holder is alive (ala WW), or dead (ala LA).

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#54 SOAP

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 03:00 PM

"No connection" could as easily be interpretted to mean he's not in cahoots with the Hero of Time. Basically asks if KoRL found the legendary Hero yet and KoRL says he hasn't and the boy with him doesn't know either. It doesn't neccesarily have to mean a blood line connection. There's no way to know who my great great grandparents are at all because name filing was very bad in Puerto Rico back then. Doesn't mean I'm not related to them... whoever they are.

Like I said, he only person who could know if Link is a decendant of the Hero of Time is Ganondorf. He's the only one still alive that had the oppurtunity to meet him face to face. Even if Daphnes was the King in OoT or OoT Zelda's brother or son, who wouldn't know Link personally because he never him face to face. He could only rely on second hand information.

#55 Husse

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 04:32 PM

"No connection" could as easily be interpretted to mean he's not in cahoots with the Hero of Time.

Hey, you're right! I was skeptical before, and I hadn't even thought of that! "No connection" also QUITE LITERALLY means that Link doesn't know the person at all, and may have nothing to do with blood relation. *high fives MJ*

All it said was when the Hero of Time left the land to go on another adventure (some say Termina but it isn't stated as such)


Dude, this is what I'm talking about. You can feel free to speculate a little bit. It seems pretty obvious by what we know of Zelda history that Termina is just about the only canon-related option here. But, because you are going by STATED canon, not THEORETICAL canon, (1+1=2, even if that's not in the text of the game, for instance,) you don't even want to conclude that Termina was the seperator of ToC and Hero of Time. It's okay to theorize, y'know. You can include that as a given.

#56 mohammedali

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 04:46 PM

"No connection" could as easily be interpretted to mean he's not in cahoots with the Hero of Time. Basically asks if KoRL found the legendary Hero yet and KoRL says he hasn't and the boy with him doesn't know either. It doesn't neccesarily have to mean a blood line connection. There's no way to know who my great great grandparents are at all because name filing was very bad in Puerto Rico back then. Doesn't mean I'm not related to them... whoever they are.

Let's extend your example to fit the situation better. Let's say there was a hero that was really famous and everyone knew of him, however, we only know about him up until his teen years. What happened after that, who he met etc is all unknown.

Then you meet someone who is known to have incredable knowledge. They are of an unknown age, and are from a royal background. When they say something, you know it must be true. He seems to know things that no one knows, and there is no explination of where he gets his knowledge at all. You don't know about his involvement with the hero, but he seems to know a lot about past events and about the hero as well. You spend a lot of time with him and he knows you well. He then says you have no connection with that hero on numerous occasions.

You then meet someone who was very close to the hero (someone who knew him from birth). That person then mistakes you for the hero as well but realises you are not him. You must be very similar to the hero for this person to confuse the two of you. Hence, when someone who knew you for MUCH less time sees you, and suggests you are the same person reborn, there is a great chance that either they are also confused (like the other person was), or that they are talking about a spiritual rebirth rather than physical one. Either way, you are told from someone knowledgable that you have no connection to the hero.

If I say you and your granddad have no connection, you would say "WTF? he's my granddad, what more of a connection do you want". If I were to say you were a certain person reborn, you wouldn't know if you had any other relation to that person.

Like I said, he only person who could know if Link is a decendant of the Hero of Time is Ganondorf. He's the only one still alive that had the oppurtunity to meet him face to face. Even if Daphnes was the King in OoT or OoT Zelda's brother or son, who wouldn't know Link personally because he never him face to face. He could only rely on second hand information.

We don't know what happened after OoT. We HAVE to assume that the King knows his shit, otherwise we may as well discount ALL quotes by the royals as them chatting crap and say "yeah, Zelda doesn't really have a clue, she wasn't even born at that time". The fact is that Ganon leaves the possiblity of WW Link being related to OoT Link (though he doesn't actually suggest it per say), whilst the King doesn't at all. If someone is in 'cahoots' with another, you wouldn't say they have a connection as this is improper English. Instead you would say the work in 'conjunction' or 'cooperation', but not connection. To deny all connection IMPLICITLY denies all blood links, as a blood link is part of the collective meaning of the word connection. This is all English, and cannot really be denied.

you don't even want to conclude that Termina was the seperator of ToC and Hero of Time. It's okay to theorize, y'know. You can include that as a given.

lol, I do theorise. My theory says that the ToC split when Link left the land of Hyrule in one universe, for the land of Hyrule in ANOTHER universe (timeline split). There's no reason that it HAS to be Termina so it isn't a given. There may even be a quote that helps suggest this theory further but I can't be sure, need to check.

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#57 SOAP

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 05:49 PM

That's not what I mean. If someone were to say So&So Rivera was not my great great grandad I wouldn't care much. I wouldn't know myself. My granpa knows his parents names but that's about as far as we know about my mother's side of the family tree. Whatever knowlege existed about our family before them died with my great grandpraents. And don't get me started on my dad's side of the family...

Let's say there was once a very mighty empire called Atlantis which was saved from a great evil by my [insert how many greats] granddad, Mario I. But then evil came back and everyone thought Mario would save them again. Yet Mario never came to save them and Atlantis was flooded by the Gods and during all the chaos, all Atlantean Knowlege, including the wherabouts of Mario's family. The people fled to the mountian tops which became islands. One of those islands was Puerto Rico where I was born and raise. The evil emerges a third time and suddenly I'm caught up in the middle of the turmoil. Everyone's looking for Mario to come back in the flesh but he's still no where to be found. The Atlatean King tells he hasn't found Mario yet and that I don't know the whereabouts of Mario either, which I don't and couldn't possibly know anyway. That has no bearing on whether or not I'm related to this Mario guy.

No one was confusing Link to be a decendant of the Hero of Time. The Deku Tree thought Link was the very same person as the legendary hero but realized that Link was not from the "days of old" at all but a boy from that time peroid. Jabun didn't even seem to realize Link was even their. KoRL just brought up Link in the conversation to explain why he brought some kid there if he wasn't the actual Hero of Time from the past. Basically, how I interpretted it is, KoRL says "No, I haven't found him yet and don't ask shorty over here because he doesn't know either."

And I wouldn't give too much credit to the male side of Zelda's family. OoT Zelda's father trusted Ganondorf without question though it was painfully obvious to the most casual gamer that such an alliance could only lead to trouble.

#58 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 07:19 PM

Husse-The Triforce of Courage didn't leave Link because Hyrule thought him dead or something. It's probably more likely that it can't leave Hyrule's dimension or something. The Triforce doesn't go to a new owner or anything if the old owner dies. Hell, in LOZ ONE, Link KILLS GANON, the Triforce of Power RISES FROM HIS ASHES, sits there, and Link claims it. It doesn't zip off to a brand new owner in some random part of Hyrule.

#59 SOAP

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 07:28 PM

Ganon also carries ToP over his head. I don't think that has any meaning. The creators didn't have any specific rules for how the Triforce "behaved" backed then.

#60 Crazy Penguin

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 07:45 PM

Nothing contradicts its behaviour in the early games, so it shouldn't really be ignored.




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