The Triforce and its abilities
Posted 05 February 2005 - 09:15 PM
Posted 06 February 2005 - 07:59 AM
That's the thing, she was taught to be a sheikah by Impa. I think that should be enough.
"Have you heard the legend of the
They are the Sheikah...the shadows
of the Hylians."
I'll be the first to call this inconclusive, but I'd say that the "shadows" comment sounds like an alter-ego situation.
Actually, does anyone know what the japanese version of the old man's text says?
If so, does it use the same word used to denote Aghanim as Ganon's alter-ego?
A little bit OT, but does this mean there's a Sheikah equivalent to every Hylian or what?
Posted 06 February 2005 - 01:51 PM
In my last post I said I would talk about the triforces limitations. Many people believe it to be almost limitless in power since it will grant any wish - but it doesn't. As stated at the end of ALttP, the triforce will grant the wishes in a persons heart and the more powerful the wish, the more powerful the expression of that wish will be. Ganon wished to conquer the world but all he got was a perverted golden realm. If you ask me, thats a very strong wish with a very weak result - its like wishing to be the richest person in the world and being given 10 bucks. So maybe the triforce isn't as all powerful as people seem to think...
Ganon wished to conquer the world and that is exactly what he got. The Sacred Realm although connected Hyrule is still essentially a different world. Ganon wished for the world and he got the world, just not the world that he was asking for. I also believe that it is quite specific in the game that, that is the reason as to why the Golden Land is now Ganon's stomping ground and why it changed to the Dark World. Though you think that he didn't get what he wanted because everything was so dank, dark and gloomy. Though in Ocarina of Time when he had just the Triforce of Power, look at his castle, then look at the market, look at the fire swirling around Death Mountain, and among other things. Ganondorf likes things to be corroded with darkness and evil, he is known as the King of Darkness or the King of Evil, so tainting a sacred pure realm and converting it into the dark desolate homeland for the Evil King was a good wish to him. I say he got exactly what he wished for, whether being specific about it or not.
Posted 06 February 2005 - 04:21 PM
Posted 07 February 2005 - 08:36 PM
Posted 08 February 2005 - 05:07 PM
But the Triforce doesn't WORK that way. It sees into your heart, so it would know that he wants to rule the entire COSMOS, like some of the Maidens claim. There's obviously some other force. I stick by my theory of a Triforce-resiliant Seal.
Not unless Ganon's wish at the time was just to rule that world. We have no idea what Ganon wished for in A link to the Past, but I would assume that he wished to rule the world, and thus he got the Dark World. That still doesn't mean that he doesn't want the entire universe at his command, but it wasn't what was in his heart to begin with. The Wind Waker makes it pretty clear that Ganondorf's wish and desire was just to rule Hyrule, but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't want to rule the cosmos. Here is what he said in the Wind Waker.
Gods! Hear that which I desire! Expose this land to the rays of the sun once more! Let them burn forth! Give Hyrule to me!!
In his heart he wanted Hyrule, and thus if he would have touched the Triforce he would have gotten Hyrule. After he made his wish, he might have realized later that it would have been better to wish for the entire cosmos, but perhaps since the wish comes from the heart, perhaps he would have to understand the entire scope of how large that wish would be. Still I say that he just wished for the Golden Land to become his dark desolate world of evil, and that is what he got.
Posted 08 February 2005 - 09:00 PM
Posted 08 February 2005 - 10:44 PM
Let this Sacred Realm and its holy essence be broken down and thrive with evil. May the lakes of this pure realm become frozen and colder than the wind howling on a winter's night. May the woods be enshrouded into trees of the dead and littered with bones of the wicked. May the mountains on high shake with volcanic might. For this is my wish, this is my desire, give me the holy Sacred Realm!
Like I said, we don't know what Ganon wished for in A link to the Past, but it is implied to some degree that the Sacred Realm is what Ganon wished for. Now later on through the game we find out that he not only wanted the Light World of Hyrule, but he also wanted dominion over the universe. But I would still suggest that his first wish was for the Sacred Realm.
Now I can't explain why he couldn't continue to grant his wishes inside of the Dark World, but by what the Maidens had claimed if he was successful in getting out of his prison, then he couldn't be stopped.
To further support my claim let us look at what some of the characters in A link to the Past said.
The Tree near the Palace of Darkness in the Dark World stated this:
You're new here, aren't you? Did you come here looking for the Power of Gold? Well, you're too late. It will obey only the first person who touches it. The man who last claimed the Power of Gold wished for this world. It reflects his heart.
Right here he claims that Ganon wished for the Golden Land to be his, and that the wish reflected what was in his heart. So to me Ganon got his wish, but this is only one character, so maybe we need more evidence to support this. Okay let's go with that.
The first maiden Link rescues says this:
Link, because of you, I've escaped from the clutches of the evil monsters. Thank you! ...This world was once the Golden Land where the Triforce was hidden. But because Ganon, the leader of the thieves, wished it, this world was transformed...
Here the maiden clearly states that Ganon wished for the world, the world of the Sacred Realm, and thus it was transformed.
I'm sure he's intending to conquer even our Light World after building his power here. His hope is to use us maidens and the power of the sages that has been passed on to us as the key to open a larger gate between the worlds near Hyrule Castle. But the gate is not completely open yet... There is still time. Together, we seven maidens can break the barrier that protects Ganon's hiding place. I can tell you where the other girls are held. I believe you will destroy Ganon. I will return to my original form at that time. ... ... ... ... ...
She later states that Ganon is wanting to conquer Hyrule next, but is building his power in the Dark World, and that the seal on his world that has kept him bound in was not completely open yet.
The second maiden states this:
Link, thanks to you, I was able to escape from the clutches of evil. Thank you! ...The Triforce will grant the wishes of whoever touches it, as long as that person lives... That is why it was hidden in the Golden Land. Only a select few were told of its location, but at some point that knowledge was lost... The one who rediscovered the Golden Land was an evil thief named Ganondorf. Luckily, he couldn't figure out how to return to the Light World... ...Well, remember that you have magical powers, which only the Hero can make use of! There are some other magical warping points like the one you saw on Death Mountain. By using them you can go between the two worlds and find the evils hidden in the Dark World. You are the only one who can destroy Ganondorf, the thief... No! Ganon, the evil King of Darkness!
This maiden claims that the Triforce will serve its bearer for as long as he or she lives, as you MikePetersSucks have stated on many occasions. The maiden also says tht after he got the Triforce and was sealed inside the Realm he could not figure out on how to return to the land of Hyrule, and it is part of my theory that with the seal being intact that he could not continue his wishes until he reached the Light World.
The next maiden that Link saves says this:
Link, thanks to you, I was able to escape the clutches of the evil monsters. Thank you! ...Do you know the prophecy of the Great Cataclysm? This is the way I heard it... If a person with an evil heart gets the Triforce, a Hero is destined to appear... ...and he alone must face the person who unleashed the Great Cataclysm. If the evil one destroys the Hero, nothing can save the world from his wicked reign. Only a member of the Knights of Hyrule, who protected the Hylian royalty, can become the Hero... You are of their bloodline, aren't you? Then you must rescue Zelda without fail!
Here the maiden claims that if Ganon would destroy Link then nothing could stop him from his wicked reign. He would have breached the Light World, and it, and thus the cosmos would belong to the Great King of Evil.
To further cement the statement above we have some words by Zelda:
I appreciate your coming so far to rescue me. As I thought, you are the legendary Hero. I have felt this from the first time we met. ... ... ... Ganon is inside of his tower, waiting to pass through the gate linking the two worlds. Once Ganon enters the Light World, it is unlikely that anyone can stop him. But if he is kept in the closed off space of this world, you can find him wherever he runs. Now, take the seven crystals to Ganon's Tower! Our combined powers will break his barrier! Let us return peace to the country and smiles to the faces of the people!
Ganon was waiting in his tower to finally pass through the gate that linked the two worlds together. If he was successful in breaking the seal completely then she claims that it could be possible that no one could stop him, and not a bad theory by her either in my eyes. But she also said that as long as Ganon remained in the closed off space of the Dark World that Link could find him no matter where he ran, and could defeat him. If Link would have been incapable of reaching Ganon before the Evil King had broken the seal, then Ganon would have won and all would be lost.
I believe it Ganon couldn't get his wishes due to the seal. I believe it the sages had placed a magical barrier of some sort that made it to where he could not use its powers unless he breached the Light World. It is only a theory I know, but a lot of quotes from different people make it somewhat plausible for this reason to occur.
Posted 09 February 2005 - 03:07 PM
Posted 09 February 2005 - 04:33 PM
Posted 09 February 2005 - 08:00 PM
Posted 09 February 2005 - 08:19 PM
Posted 10 February 2005 - 02:20 AM
Darkseid has a valid, and well-backed up, point. Unless there are other examples of wishes made on the triforce I think its difficult to argue that the triforce has limits, although one thought just occured to me. Whoever holds the complete triforce will gain the ability to rule over everything, but the barrier created by the sages prevents Ganondorf from doing so. This suggests to me that although the triforce may be powerful, its power can be counter-acted.
Well I agree with this to a degree I suppose. The Triforce has always granted the wish of whoever is wishing on it. Evidence is in the games.
In AoL the Triforce awakened the eternal sleeping spell on Princess Zelda.
In LttP the Triforce granted Ganon the Golden Land. The Triforce also granted Link's wish.
In The Wind Waker the Triforce granted King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule's wish. Ganondorf knew that his wish was hope for the children, and that he would ultimately lose. Why do you think he laugh for so long. It also makes sense as to why he said let's just see how precious the Triforce was worth. And when he did lose, he just laughed about realizing that it was impossible to resist the a wish from the Triforce, even though he did try and fight back.
The best solution that I can think of is what you said Marty. That the seal somehow counteracted with Ganon from using the Triforce. Why this was like that I don't know, but I would suggest they got help from on high.
Posted 10 February 2005 - 03:24 PM
Crazy. He is insane in the membrane. Poco loco, couple cokes short of a six-pack, fell out of the nutty tree and hit all the branches on the way down.
Posted 10 February 2005 - 08:10 PM
Posted 11 February 2005 - 12:18 AM
Posted 11 February 2005 - 01:13 PM
Posted 11 February 2005 - 03:05 PM
Let's say in 1998 you wanted the game Ocarina of Time more than anything in the world. This would be your wish, that would be your desire. But later on down the road they come out with the Collector's Edition that not only has the Ocarina of Time, but three other games as well. So your next wish would be to have it and you could maybe even want it more than the first wish, but regardless of that, the first wish or desire you made was to have the Ocarina of Time, and at that time, that would have been your strongest wish. Get what I am saying. I hope so, if not I can try and explain it a different way.
Posted 11 February 2005 - 06:58 PM
And he was crazy. Of course he wanted to get the little one first, it was his prison for so long, and he knew it affected the real world...he just forgot that the real world was a better goal. The Triforce grants the wish in one's heart. If he wanted it foremost, that's waht he got.
Then he kicked himself later, I'm sure. DOH!
Posted 11 February 2005 - 09:29 PM
Posted 11 February 2005 - 10:49 PM
Posted 12 February 2005 - 01:21 PM
Posted 12 February 2005 - 04:09 PM
Okay Ganon goes to the Golden Land.
Ganon gets the Triforce.
Ganon wishes for the Golden Land.
He gets the Golden Land in his image thus it becomes the Dark World.
The Hylians fearing his power seal him in the tainted Golden Land.
Ganon must use the descendants of the Seven Sages in order to breach the Light World and grant his next wishes which were Hyrule and the Cosmos.
Posted 13 February 2005 - 04:42 AM
ALLLLLLLL true, but if he wanted the Cosmos at any point while he had the Triforce, he should've gotten it, since the Triforce is all power. Thusly, he either doesn't have full control of the Triforce somehow, or the Seal prevents it from extending his power from the Dark World.
During the creation story, the three goddesses were only mentioned as doing things involving the creation of the planet that Hyrule exists on, as well as all of it's inhabitants. There's nothing to say that they had anything to do with the creation of the Cosmos. So, theoretically, Ganon could have wished for the Cosmos, but was denied because that was something that the Goddesses could not offer, since it was not under their power or control.
Posted 13 February 2005 - 06:37 AM
Posted 13 February 2005 - 07:47 AM
Surprisingly, the Triforce created this world to fulfill Ganon's wish. What is Ganon's wish, you ask? It's to rule the entire cosmos! Don't you think it might be possible with the power of the Trifore behind you?
The guy basically states that the Triforce created the Dark World for Ganon because of his wish. What is Ganon's wish now you say? Why to rule the cosmos, and comes off with saying that with the Triforce wouldn't you think it would be possible.
The old US SNES manual even said that the Goddesses 'descended from a distant nebulae'...
Well I don't really like using the old manual but what if the numerous clouds of gas and dust in interstellar space was the result of their universe's big bang. I am not saying that the Goddesses most certainly created their universe, but a person could take it many different ways.
It could be taken as the Goddesses descending from a compact luminous ring-shaped nebula that is composed of matter which has been ejected from a hot star at its center.
It could be a spiral nebula which is a galaxy exhibiting a central nucleus or barred structure from which extend concentrations of matter forming curved arms.
We don't really know, and the Japanese manual doesn't exactly say where the Goddesses come from, they just say that the Goddesses created the world and that was pretty much it.
Posted 13 February 2005 - 01:22 PM