Jump to content

IPBoard Styles©Fisana

Photo

The Triforce and its abilities


  • Please log in to reply
86 replies to this topic

#1 Marty

Marty

    Famicom

  • Members
  • 1,241 posts
  • Location:Nottingham, UK
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 January 2005 - 05:07 PM

We all know what the triforce does - it grants the wishes of its holder. But what do the seperate pieces (Power, Wisdom and Courage) actually do? The only way to find an answer is to look at the abilities of those who have held them.

Power - To my knowledge only Ganondorf has held this piece in its individual form. He already had magical abilities, so the triforce might have enhanced those abilities but we can't really say. He does transform into Ganon, and it is certainly implied that the ToP assisted him in this. The only conclusion I have at the moment is that the ToP gives its holder increased Power. Lame, I know, but what else do you think I was gonna say ;)

Wisdom - Mainly held by Zelda, but also held by Link in LoZ. In LoZ, Link needs the ToW in order to fight Ganon (I can't remember, was it for defensive or offensive reasons?). Zelda seems to have strong magical capabilities (and magic users are often associated with wisdom in RPGs), but is this from the triforce or something else? I certainly don't think holding the ToW makes you wise.

Courage - Held only by Link. I refuse to believe that it merely provides the holder with courage, since courage comes from within. But what does it do? Frankly, I haven't got a clue.

Its possible that the triforce pieces actually do nothing, its also possible that they provide the holders with the same abilities. I've really only opened this up for debate instead of trying to find an answer but I will be looking for more clues as and when I get the time.

#2 Doopliss

Doopliss

    Famicom

  • Members
  • 1,531 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Gender:Male
  • Mexico

Posted 26 January 2005 - 05:18 PM

We at least know for sure that the Triforce of Courage does something. Remember what Ganon told Link in OoT "I understimated the power of the Triforce of Courage" apparently he's saying that Link wouldn't have reached that far without it. Plus it seem sto be a prove for hte gods of courage, because Link wasn't allowed back to Hyrule until he had it.

MJ pwns.

#3 Zythe

Zythe

    Beginner

  • Banned
  • 1 posts

Posted 26 January 2005 - 05:41 PM

Does the ToC let you die infinite times with time rewinding to the last time you saved? No? OK.

Seriously though, we have no idea what the individual pieces do because we've never seen more than one person use each (except in LoZ, where Link had the ToW and it did nothing).

Going by what we've seen though...

ToP can: freeze over all of Zora's Domain, kill of loads of people, resurrect Volvagia (and I'm guessing other bosses as they're in most games) and Bongo Bongo, undo good magic, free the dekus, place terrible curses and is generally the power aspect of the Triforce.

ToW can: glamour oneself, infuse arrows with light magic (TMC made this debatable), shield oneself, telepathy.

ToC: grant access to beneath Tower of the Gods, fuck all.

Hyuck.

#4 SOAP

SOAP

    So Oo Ap Puh

  • Members
  • 7,750 posts
  • Location:Savannah, GA Hell Yeah!
  • Gender:Male
  • World

Posted 26 January 2005 - 06:06 PM

MJ pwns.


I know I do but you have to keep mentioning it! Sheesh!

I don't know if the Triforce of Wisdom grants people powers of telepathy or what not since these seem to be inborn traits of all the Zelda. In ALttP Zelda could speak to Link in his dreams even though the full Triforce was in Dark World. Even in OoT, Zelda, as a child, saw the future in her dreams. I just think the Zelda's are just born more sensitive.

I'm begining to think, individually, the pieces amplify attributes that already exist within a person. Power gives one the strength and means to seize control. Wisdom, with Power, gives one the mental capacity to use that power wisely. Courage, I suppose keeps one's heart in the right place. Power and Wisdom seem to have the power to change people's forms as well, maybe to better reflect what in a person's heart or change them into what they were destined to be. I don't know about Courage though. Even with Courage, Link always maintain his form. From what I know of.

#5 Zythe

Zythe

    Beginner

  • Banned
  • 1 posts

Posted 26 January 2005 - 06:24 PM

So power amplified what... Ganon's trident's magic or his natural Gerudo magic or... help me out here.

#6 Hana-Nezumi

Hana-Nezumi

    Flower Mouse

  • Members
  • 6,040 posts
  • Gender:Androgynous Male Rodent

Posted 26 January 2005 - 06:29 PM

Hyuck.

omigosh! he really is a hillbilly!
i think zelda used the triforce of wisdom to turn into sheik, since we see it glow on her hand right before she transforms back into zelda

#7 Fatgoron

Fatgoron

    Journeyman

  • Members
  • 307 posts

Posted 26 January 2005 - 06:47 PM

Couldn't it just be resonating in response to Link's ToC?

the ToP gives its holder increased Power. Lame, I know,


Makes perfect sense. Ganondorf reduced hyrule castle to a deep pit filled with molten rock, above which he suspended a tower in excess of 50 foot tall. He corrupted the temples of hyrule and filled them with monsters, apparently placing a boss in each of them.
I'd go as far as to say that the ToP seems to make its wielder an almost maximally powerful being within the scope of their perception.

The ToC could be said to protect a valiant person against the power of the ToP. I'm certain that if Ganondorf could destroy hyrule castle, in any manner that could be infered from the OoT future period, then chances are he would be able to obliterate link. Navi makes mention that she is unable to target Ganondorf as the waves of darkness emanating from him are too strong.
Likewise, the ToW could be said to have a similar effect if we apply the same premises.

#8 Zythe

Zythe

    Beginner

  • Banned
  • 1 posts

Posted 26 January 2005 - 06:51 PM

Hyuck.

omigosh! he really is a hillbilly!
i think zelda used the triforce of wisdom to turn into sheik, since we see it glow on her hand right before she transforms back into zelda


Hillbilly, are I? Well I better had cotton-darn it whittle me's a weapon.

Um. The Zelda into Sheik thing. I covered that with the word "glamouring".

#9 MikePetersSucks

MikePetersSucks

    Actual Japanese Person

  • ZL Staff
  • 4,174 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 January 2005 - 08:12 PM

Yea, the Triforces seem to just enhance someone's natural qualities. Ganondorf is obvious. Wisdom is a bit tricky, but easy to solve. It seems to give it's holder psychic powers. And Courage doesn't seem to do anything noticable, but in the final battle, you're hearts always refill. perhaps it invigorates Link, or otherwise helps give his will form like the others do? " I have to save...Princess Zelda!" Link stuggles to get up, battered and bruised, and when he sees Zelda being carried off by Ganondorf, his wounds heal and he gets a temporary speed and power boost? "Damn you, Ganondorf?" Jumps in the air TWW style and impales Ganon in the head. "Oh Link, my hero!* *smootch* *Ding in Link's pants* Um...natural male enhancement? ;)

#10 Darunia

Darunia

    Scout

  • Members
  • 177 posts

Posted 27 January 2005 - 02:15 AM

Yea, the Triforces seem to just enhance someone's natural qualities. Ganondorf is obvious. Wisdom is a bit tricky, but easy to solve. It seems to give it's holder psychic powers. And Courage doesn't seem to do anything noticable, but in the final battle, you're hearts always refill. perhaps it invigorates Link, or otherwise helps give his will form like the others do? " I have to save...Princess Zelda!" Link stuggles to get up, battered and bruised, and when he sees Zelda being carried off by Ganondorf, his wounds heal and he gets a temporary speed and power boost? "Damn you, Ganondorf?" Jumps in the air TWW style and impales Ganon in the head. "Oh Link, my hero!* *smootch* *Ding in Link's pants* Um...natural male enhancement? ;)



**Link changes his name to Bob, and starts a series of commercials for a budding new company called Enzyte!!! **

Dear God I gotta find something else to do. :lmao:

#11 Guest_Darkseid_*

Guest_Darkseid_*
  • Guests

Posted 27 January 2005 - 06:43 AM

I would like to acknowledge Marty for coming up with an interesting post, as the Triforce is something I feel is rarely talked about on the board, especially defining the three individual pieces and what their properties are.

According to the Japanese manual of A link to the Past, the individual pieces of the Triforce all represent something, much like the America version had said, but the American version has the definition wrong, claiming it is Forger of Strength, Keeper of Knowledge, and Juror of Courage. Nonetheless, we will look at what the Japanese had intended it to be.

For the Triforce of Power it is said to bestow the bearer the innate ability to become a Ruler or Conquerer of Power. This could be interpreted either way, meaning that either a person of good or evil could be bestowed with this title.

I assume that a Ruler of Power would be one such as the King in his ability to rule his kingdom with peace, yet also be firm and strong to make sure those in his kingdom abide by his rules and regulations. A Conquerer of Power could be described as someone who is corrupt and wanting to control citizens through tyranny and evil ambitions.

The Triforce of Wisdom is known to bestow the bearer the innate ability to become an Administrator or Governer of Wisdom. Though we have only seen this piece used as a benevolent tool considering it in just its singularity, that is not to assume that it could not be conjunctured with a corrupt individual perhaps wanting to know all the secrets in life and existence for example.

The Triforce of Courage is known to bestow the bearer the innate ability to become a Forger or Temperer of Courage. Once again this piece has only been seen to be used in the measures of peace and clarity in just its singularity, but just like the Triforce of Wisdom one cannot assume that it could not also be used for a more malignant cause. For if misused the Triforce can bear many evils.

After a bit of description on the titles of what these pieces are said to bestow I think the next thing we need is actual presentations of what these pieces can actually do.

The first four games of the Legend of Zelda series are pretty much inconclusive in our research, so we will start with the Ocarina of Time in deciding what each piece can do.

Triforce of Power:
When we first meet Ganondorf in the Ocarina of Time or hear about him at least, we know that he is the King of the Gerudos, but also a competent, yet vile sorcerer. He infected the Deku Tree with a parasitic arachnoid, he most likely closed off the entrance to the Dodongo Cavern, and he plagued the water deity known as Jabu-Jabu with a bio-electric anemone. While all of this is indeed impressive we still can tell that Ganondorf was trying to use cunning and deciet to try and push other races in giving him the Spiritual Stones because he had not aquired the means to take them out by sheer force. He even payed servitude towards the King of Hyrule and tried to learn more of its secrets, which could be one reason as to why he chased Princess Zelda and Impa out of the castle trying desperately to garner the Ocarina of Time. So it seems quite evident that while Ganondorf was no mere conjurer of cheap tricks, he was also not some fabled wizard of unexplainable magic either.

However when he harnessed the might of the Triforce of Power things dramatically changed. He conquered Hyrule Castle and replaced it with a dark tower of his own floating over a pool of lava. This would also go along with what the title of what this piece represents as he was shown to be a conquerer and a ruler of this land for seven long years. He infested the forest and its sacred meadows with monsters, ghosts, and other evils so frightening that the children of the forest were too scared to go outside and play. He revived an ancient dragon from the past and threw an entire race of living rock inhabitants in its domain, imprisoning them in cages until the dragon would get ready to feast on their rocky flesh. He completely froze over another entire race of an aquatic species. Their domain, their kingdom was nothing but a large sheet of ice, and their king was frozen in a red form of ice that could only be melted by a strange blue fire. He broke an ancient shiekah sealing that was on a phantom shadow beast in the depths of the well. He brought forth an undead army to be rekindled within the terribly frightful domain of the Shadow Temple. And by his own race he was considered to be a god. Even after his defeat the Triforce of Power gave him the strength to send his castle to nothing but a crumbling waste, even in death. And even after his death he revitalized in mere moments later. In a last effort he used the piece of Power to grant himself a new body, one that reflected his twisted actions and greedy demeanor, one that would make him become a demon of almost unstoppable rage and chaos. For with this he was no longer a mere king of thieves, he was now the King of all Evil, and thus being granted a bearer of the Triforce of Power which would grant him the title as the Conquerer/Ruler of Power.

Triforce of Wisdom:
When we hear of Zelda we know that she is some princess of destiny, and that she may know the answers to Link's nightmares. When we first see her, we see a child that has prophetic dreams, and seen the a beacon of light would come from the forest. She has an acute sense of oncoming dangers as she could tell that the man Ganondorf was plotting to take over Hyrule and even pinpointed out that he was afte the sacred triangles, the Triforce, even though she was only making an estimated guess. She also knew of the legend of the goddesses and knowledge over some of the Triforce, suggesting that she knew more than what normal townsfolk people did, and was roughly on par with the Great Deku Tree in terms of knowing the history of the Sacred Realm and the rest of the legend. She knew how to enter the Door of Time much like how the Sages who built the Temple of Time would know how to get in the Door of Time. The amazing thing is, is that she knows all of this and is still just a child! Though that is the downside, while she did think she was doing the right thing, she is just a child, and does not have the wisdom or knowledge to realize what events would be triggered by going through this set quest she endavored on Link.

Now when she harnessed the Triforce of Wisdom, things began to change. She realized from the repercussions of Ganondorf's onslaught that she had to shield her identity from him, preventing the Evil King to have knowledge of the whereabouts of the second piece. Her title as an Administor of Governer of Wisdom is well shown as she gives guidence to Link about his quest, and she speaks it in such poetic beauty. As given in her quotes to him below.

I've been waiting for you, Hero of Time...When evil rules all, an awakening voice from the Sacred Realm will call those destined to be Sages, who dwell in the five temples. One in a deep forest...One on a high mountain...One under a vast lake...One within the house of the dead...One inside a goddess of the sand...Together with the Hero of Time, the awakened ones will bind the evil and return the light of peace to the world...This is the legend of the temples passed down by my people, the Sheikah.

I am Sheik. Survivor of the Sheikahs...As I see you standing there holding the mythical Master Sword, you really do look like the legendary Hero of Time...If you believe the legend, you have no choice. You must look for the five temples and awaken the five Sages....One Sage is waiting for the time of awakening in the Forest Temple. The Sage is a girl I am sure you know...Because of the evil power in the temple, she cannot hear the awakening call from the Sacred Realm...Unfortunately, equipped as you currently are, you cannot even enter the temple...But, if you believe what I'm saying, you should head to Kakariko
Village...

Here it is quite evident that she knows those who will be destined to become Sages as she pointed out about Link knowing the girl in the Forest Temple, and she being the Seventh Sage and leader of them all provides Link with the location of where to find these sages. Once again Zelda acts as a guide to Link when he had destroyed the creatures that inhabitated the Forest Temple. She also mentions to Link that he can't enter the temple equipped the way he is suggesting that somehow she knew that the Hookshot would be a pivotal item needed in completely the temple.

You destroyed the wicked creatures that haunted the temple and awakened the Sage...But there are still other Sages who need your help. In order to awaken all the other Sages, you must become even more powerful. You must travel over
mountains...under water...and even through time...As long as you hold the Ocarina
of Time and the Master Sword, you hold time itself in your hands...Link, we shall meet again!

Here not only does she tell him what he must do, but her knowledge is so vast that she even knows that the Master Sword is the key into traveling to Link's past and back again to the future, something she did not know before as a child, for if she did she would have never sent Link on the quest. To furhter cement that Zelda knew about the Master Sword and its power over time in the adult timeline we have these words from her.

If you want to return to your original time, return the Master Sword to the Pedestal of Time. By doing this, you will travel back in time seven years....The time will come when you will have to return here quickly...I will teach this to you for when that time comes...The song to return you to the Temple of Time...The Prelude of Light...

She also mentions more about time traveling when Link and Shiek met at the Desert Colossus.

Though Zelda is a kind and considerate person she can also establish herself as a stern individual, such as she told Link to get away from the well in Kakariko Village.

Other than Ganondorf himself, Zelda was also another person who realized that if a person's heart was not balance in all three forces, that it would split, and the one who touched it would gain that which that person believed in most, while the other two would go to those chosen by destiny. She had the power to command the Sages to her will and she was the one who ordered them to imprison him in the tainted Sacred Realm. It should also be taken into consideration that after having the Triforce of Wisdom that Zelda realized all of the tradgedy that she caused, and she takes full responsebility for her actions in claiming it was all her fault. She learned through her mistakes through great strides of perserverance and wisdom, thus is why she one gain the title as Administor/Govenrer of Wisdom.

Triforce of Courage:
When we first meet Link he was a boy who was haunted by terrible nightmares, that had disturbed and frightened the young lad. When Navi asked Link to come and meet the Great Deku Tree he may have thought that he might get some answers to these re-occuring nightmares, or he may just have been glad to have been summoned by the magnificent tree, maybe it was a combination of both. Nevertheless Mido order Link that he could not get to the Deku Tree unless he had a shield and a sword. Link knew were to purchase a shield, but he would have to use his wit and cleverness to find the whereabouts of the Kokiri Sword.

When the Deku Tree told Link of his illness, the young boy had already shown courage to enter the tree and help his somewhat father-figure out. Though while he was brave we can tell that he was not completely fearless. Things did happen to shock the young hero. We notice then when Link takes a few steps back from Gohma, or King Dodongo. We also notice that Link was scared of having to have gotten a goron hug from Darunia and his citizens. But the real sign of terror probably came when he met Ganondorf himself. He seemed a bit frightened but he didn't let that stop his goals, and he was brave enough to challenge Ganondorf even as a child. Though Ganondorf was somewhat impressed by the kid's actions, at the same time he thought the boy was foolish to challenge someone of his might. Link also might have been quite relunctant to tell Nabooru of his true intents of being in the Spirit Temple. Though things change when a person gathers an element of the Triforce, and since his was courage, he gained somethings as well.

The Triforce of Courage would enable Link to become a Forger or Temperer of Courage, and thhis seems somewhat evident in playing the game, though since he is a silent character I must use things from how I see it, though everyone might not agree. Link might even be immune to transformation spells when having the Triforce of Courage. We noticed that in Majora's Mask that the Skull Kid was able to transform Link into a Deku Scrub, but Link didn't have the Triforce of Courage in that game either. Ganondorf was able to rip a gap between dimensions and banish a phantom copy of himself, but why did he not do this to Link. Well it might be that the Triforce of Courage is a safeguard preventing that, since it is a relic of the creator gods, though that is only speculation on my part. We also notice that Link no longer takes steps back when in battle with a guardian from a dungeon/temple while holding the Triforce of Courage. In his battle with Volvagia we notice Link looking around his surroundings, but no signs of fear or fleeing was shown. I suspect the him looking around was probably due to him having a more warrior instinct, more determined to accomplish his goals, and this would go well with his title since he would be forging himself to complete a mission. Ganondorf also notes that he did not underesitmate the power of Link, but in his own arrogant ways states that he just underestimated the power of the Triforce of Courage.

When Princess Zelda was imprisoned in the crystal shard by Ganondorf we can see Link tempered with a sense of justice to free her. We know that he scales the heights of Ganon's Tower holding the blade of evil's bane and an arrow that can smite evil and bring justice to this fair kingdom. Most people would falter after seeing Ganondorf rise out of his fallen castle and transform into Ganon. And while Link did seem somewhat shocked and amazed that Ganondorf was still alive, he did not stop his mission of defeating the beast even when Ganon knocked the Master Sword out of his hand. Knowing that he was no longer in reach of the sacred blade of evil's bane would have made most people given up hope, but not Link, he did not falter none in the least. He succeeded in his mission and proved that he does have the title as Forger/Temperer of Courage.

I would like to discuss this some more going on with the events of the Wind Waker, but I am a bit tired of typing right now, so I will do that on my next post. Now I know I didn't add anything new besides that it amplifies the qualities of the force in which that person represents, but I wanted to go further into detail and give examples from the games.

#12 Zythe

Zythe

    Beginner

  • Banned
  • 1 posts

Posted 27 January 2005 - 11:02 AM

When we discussed this in 02, we all pretty much decided that since the ToC was seen to do nothing, that it probably didnt't. We said at the time, that it was probably just a piece you needed to have the "whole" Triforce and access its powers. It is also more of a medal or proof of status, seeing as in AoL and LoZ it proves you worthy to enter somewhere. Besides being a nightlight, I don't think the ToC does a thing.

#13 FDL

FDL

    Famicom

  • Members
  • 1,634 posts
  • Location:Right behind you!
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 January 2005 - 01:46 PM

Here's what I think. Some of this disagrees with what others have said:


Power:Gives you strength and increased fighting skills. This is shown by the fact that Ganondorf can cause small earthquakes by punching the ground. Also, the Great Fairy of Power teaches you the Spin Attack, which POWERS up your sword.


Wisdom:Gives you great power over magic. Various things prove this. One of the main things is that the Great Fairy of Wisdom increases your magic power.

Courage:Involves vitality/defense. Yes, Zythe, I know you said this isn't the case but I disagree and here's why. Right before you fight Ganondorf in OoT the TOC shines on Links hand and his hearts go all the way up. I'll use the Great Fairies as my main example again however. The Great Fairy of COURAGE doubles your defense! I think these two parts of OoT are great examples of the property of Courage. It even makes sense that Courage=Vitality because one needs to feel well to feel brave and confident.

#14 Zythe

Zythe

    Beginner

  • Banned
  • 1 posts

Posted 27 January 2005 - 02:13 PM

You can also make similar comparisons with most Zelda elements. Like Seasons=Power, Ages=Wisdom and Secrets=Courage but it doesn't stand.

Heck. Why don't we just use SSBM as our basis if we're going by fairies of Power, Courage and Wisdom. The character of Link never changes after he gains the ToC.

#15 Husse

Husse

    Sucks to be you, don't it Ganny?

  • Members
  • 2,255 posts

Posted 27 January 2005 - 02:40 PM

Oh no?

Says he couldn't have gotten where he'd gotten if he didn't have it, and I believe it.

It has to do something, this is my basic thought:

I'm begining to think, individually, the pieces amplify attributes that already exist within a person. Power gives one the strength and means to seize control. Wisdom, with Power, gives one the mental capacity to use that power wisely. Courage, I suppose keeps one's heart in the right place.


Except, I think courage helps keep alive the indomitable spirit. The pieces 10x enhance what a character already has. Zelda was lucky enough to slip through the fingers of Ganon a thousand times, I think the ToW gave her enhanced mind capabilities, better telepathy, she followed Link everywhere, and everything she did and said seemed to be thoroughly rehearsed, evidence of superior mind power melded with her magic.

It's very obvious what the ToP did for Ganondorf, so I won't dwell on it, but apparently, after he was "killed," the ToP hadn't left him or moved on, so he kept it with him, keeping him alive like some immortal demon for a very very very long time.

ToC? Geez, people, it does NOTHING? Of course it did something! Link already had indomitable spirit, he was a humble servant and a courageous hero, the ToC gave strength TO his courage. Ganon tried to get rid of him many times, but it never worked, not b/c Link was smart, I myself think he was kind of low on the IQ scale, not b/c he was powerful, he was a little guy, but because he never gave up, and he had the ToC, power of the heart behind it.

#16 MikePetersSucks

MikePetersSucks

    Actual Japanese Person

  • ZL Staff
  • 4,174 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 January 2005 - 05:21 PM

Zythe, the Triforce of Courage not doing a thing is silly and ignorant. There's strong, obvious symbolism in the Balance and Unity of the Triforce. Each peice, while seperate, or whole, contributes equally to the Triforce and it's owner. If you really MUST assume anything, you can assume that Link didn't USE the Triforce of Courage because of his integrity or somesuch. :P

#17 FDL

FDL

    Famicom

  • Members
  • 1,634 posts
  • Location:Right behind you!
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 January 2005 - 05:57 PM

I still say the TOC involves defense and vitality.

#18 Marty

Marty

    Famicom

  • Members
  • 1,241 posts
  • Location:Nottingham, UK
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 January 2005 - 05:59 PM

Before I start, I liked the insight given from the fairies example and also all the research that Darkseid put into his post.
I'm thinking of the phrase "courage gives people strength", and it seems to me that it fits in quite well with what we know (note - strength is different to power):

1. Link needs the ToC to fight Ganondorf who is an extremely powerful enemy. It would make sense that he would need to amplify his own strength in some way to match Ganondorf's power, and the ToC does this.

2. By examples already given it would seem that vitality is tied in with the ToC as well. Vitality can be described as strength of body.

I'm basically saying that the ToC gives strength to mind, body and spirit which enables Link to fight Ganondorf. I don't think it necessarily gives him the ability to resist Ganondorf's magic since Zelda was captured the moment she reveiled herself and she held the ToW, although perhaps thats an argument for rather than against.... Anyway, thats as much thinking as I can muster this evening. I'm off to the land of nod.

Final thought - perhaps the ToC only strengthens spirit and the ToP and ToW strengthen body and mind respectively? This goes against what I just said but the thought just occured to me so I figured it was worth including.

I'm also starting to wonder about the limitations of the triforce (complete and seperate), but I'll get onto that next time.

#19 Husse

Husse

    Sucks to be you, don't it Ganny?

  • Members
  • 2,255 posts

Posted 27 January 2005 - 06:39 PM

Final thought - perhaps the ToC only strengthens spirit and the ToP and ToW strengthen body and mind respectively?


I figured that was obvious. Read my other post and you'll see what I mean. Zelda certainly ain't wiser, her plans are still stupid, but her mind is strengthened, Ganon's body refuses to die, and Link's spirit refuses to quit, and is given the strength to do so.

#20 Guest_Darkseid_*

Guest_Darkseid_*
  • Guests

Posted 28 January 2005 - 07:22 AM

I like the part about courage giving you strength and vitality, it makes sense.

When we discussed this in 02, we all pretty much decided that since the ToC was seen to do nothing, that it probably didnt't. We said at the time, that it was probably just a piece you needed to have the "whole" Triforce and access its powers. It is also more of a medal or proof of status, seeing as in AoL and LoZ it proves you worthy to enter somewhere. Besides being a nightlight, I don't think the ToC does a thing.

Yeah the Triforce of Courage is a useless piece that is probably why the King in the backstory of AoL hid the it in the Great Palace because it's useless. And since the Triforce of Courage is useless then Farore the Goddess of Courage is useless too. They are just there to take up space in the Zelda series I suppose.

I don't think it necessarily gives him the ability to resist Ganondorf's magic since Zelda was captured the moment she reveiled herself and she held the ToW, although perhaps thats an argument for rather than against


Perhaps not, but I was just making some suggestions as to what the Triforce of Courage might help do for Link. Though I really didn't mean that he could resist all of his magc, just ones like banishing him between dimensions and stuff like that, but maybe he could. Still though the strength and vitality thing is a good thing to go by. I like it.

Zelda certainly ain't wiser, her plans are still stupid


How is Zelda's plans stupid and not any wiser.
OoT:
She tells you were each one of the Sages are. She gives you melodies to return to certain points in the game. She warns Link not to come near the well, despite him not listening to her. She tells you when to strike the final blow on Ganon. She commands the Seven Sages to imprison Ganondorf in the Sacred Realm. She realizes her mistakes and returns Link back to his past, showing that she has gained wisdom through her mistakes.

TWW:
Also how was her plans stupid in this game. Ganondorf had adapted to all of Link's and Zelda's attacks during the final round. Link could no longer land a parry attack, and Zelda could no longer land a Light Arrow strike, so what does she do, she instigates the plan of firing a Light Arrow at Link's Mirror Shield. Brilliant I think. Ganondorf would be wondering why Zelda would be firing an arrow at Link, and when the arrow gets reflected back from the Mirror Shield and hits Ganondorf, then it is done too late for the Evil King to realize what happened because......BAM....he gets nailed in the head with the Master Sword and is turned to stone. I think it was a great plan and I think she gained wisdom in both of these games.

#21 Husse

Husse

    Sucks to be you, don't it Ganny?

  • Members
  • 2,255 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 08:23 AM

No, I just meant OoT Zelda, she screws up twice.

And, that is so stupid! It's a TRIFORCE. The ToC does SOMETHING! Ganon feared its power, "underestimated," it in fact.

#22 Guest_Darkseid_*

Guest_Darkseid_*
  • Guests

Posted 28 January 2005 - 08:52 AM

No, I just meant OoT Zelda, she screws up twice.

And, that is so stupid! It's a TRIFORCE. The ToC does SOMETHING! Ganon feared its power, "underestimated," it in fact.


When did she screw up twice in the adult timeline that is because that is when she had the Triforce of Wisdom.

And I know that the Triforce of Courage does something, but I was being sarcastic to Zythe:P. Hope you took no offense to it Zythe!

#23 Zythe

Zythe

    Beginner

  • Banned
  • 1 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 10:05 AM

Yeah the Triforce of Courage is a useless piece that is probably why the King in the backstory of AoL hid the it in the Great Palace because it's useless. And since the Triforce of Courage is useless then Farore the Goddess of Courage is useless too. They are just there to take up space in the Zelda series I suppose.  


Hmm. Sarcasm. Sharp. Owe.

Who said it had to bestow powers? Why can't it just be something tied to destiny or place in the universe or whatnot, on some greater, divine level where we can's comprehend what it does do. Ganon could fear it, because it means something significant, like it is symbolic of how powerful Link is. Or something. None of us really know anything.

#24 SOAP

SOAP

    So Oo Ap Puh

  • Members
  • 7,750 posts
  • Location:Savannah, GA Hell Yeah!
  • Gender:Male
  • World

Posted 28 January 2005 - 10:13 AM

Heck. Why don't we just use SSBM as our basis if we're going by fairies of Power, Courage and Wisdom. The character of Link never changes after he gains the ToC.


Not all changes are obvious, Zythe. Some only change from within.

#25 Zythe

Zythe

    Beginner

  • Banned
  • 1 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 10:16 AM

^ Which I do believe was my point, if you read both my post and the post I was quoting. They were saying that the ToC gave Link extra defence and here i said

Who said it had to bestow powers? Why can't it just be something tied to destiny or place in the universe or whatnot, on some greater, divine level where we can's comprehend what it does do. Ganon could fear it, because it means something significant, like it is symbolic of how powerful Link is. Or something. None of us really know anything.

which would pretty much constitue a

change from within

. Check.

#26 SOAP

SOAP

    So Oo Ap Puh

  • Members
  • 7,750 posts
  • Location:Savannah, GA Hell Yeah!
  • Gender:Male
  • World

Posted 28 January 2005 - 10:42 AM

^ Which I do believe was my point, if you read both my post and the post I was quoting. They were saying that the ToC gave Link extra defence and here i said which would pretty much constitue a . Check.


A change is a change, inner or outward. If your point was that it was just an inner change then why say things like:

When we discussed this in 02, we all pretty much decided that since the ToC was seen to do nothing, that it probably didnt't. We said at the time, that it was probably just a piece you needed to have the "whole" Triforce and access its powers. It is also more of a medal or proof of status, seeing as in AoL and LoZ it proves you worthy to enter somewhere. Besides being a nightlight, I don't think the ToC does a thing.


or even worse

The character of Link never changes after he gains the ToC.


What is it that you mean? Does Link change or not?

It is very obvious that Link changes from the inside and not on the outside like Ganon and Zelda seem to. Just like how Power granted Ganon the means to fufill his desire to rule Hyrule and Wisdom granted Zelda the insight on how things would eventually play out, Courage granted Link the the bravery and impetus to actually do what he thought was right. Of course one could argue Link was courageous all along and the ToC just symbolized that. But Ganon and Zelda were already showed qualities of Power and Wisdom respectively before either of them got their Triforce peices. That's why they were chosen. My theory is that the Triforce peices amplifies what is already there, and thus it changes them in order to better potray those qualities. Ganon wanted to the powerful force in Hyrule. So he became an unstoppable demon. Zelda wanted to buy Hyrule time by hiding herself and the ToW so she became a man. Link wanted to be a hero and save Hyrule so he became a warrior strong enough to stand up against Ganon.

#27 Zythe

Zythe

    Beginner

  • Banned
  • 1 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 11:07 AM

What is it that you mean? Does Link change or not?


If he does change it isn't obvious or visible at all like in Zelda or Ganon.

#28 SOAP

SOAP

    So Oo Ap Puh

  • Members
  • 7,750 posts
  • Location:Savannah, GA Hell Yeah!
  • Gender:Male
  • World

Posted 28 January 2005 - 11:17 AM

*sigh* I say this one last time. NOT ALL CHANGES ARE OBVIOUS OR VISIBLE! Say I have two cars, completely identical. But I juiced up the motor in one of them. Now, unless you were allowed to look under the hood, you probably wouldn't know the difference until you actually drove each one and felt the difference for yourself. Link is still the same Link on the outside. But under the hood he's all powered up thanks to the Triforce of Courage.

#29 Zythe

Zythe

    Beginner

  • Banned
  • 1 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 01:59 PM

Why are you arguing with me? I just agreed. If there are any changes, they areb't obvious. Geez.

#30 Husse

Husse

    Sucks to be you, don't it Ganny?

  • Members
  • 2,255 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 02:33 PM

That's whole thing. At the end of the game, you discover that something about you IS different, that you could not have gotten where you'd gotten without the ToC.

It's supposed to be a surprise, not obvious.




Copyright © 2021 Your Company Name