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People of the Twilight Realm and the Shadow Folk


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#61 Raien

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 10:37 PM

On the subject of good and evil, the Zelda mythos very clearly expresses an "innocent until proven guilty", black-and-white schema of morality. If someone isn't explicitly evil, we're probably to assume they're either a dumb animal/monster, or passively good.


This is very true. At no point are we given an impression that "witch-hunting" goes on in the Zelda universe. Everyone is good until they show themselves to be evil.

#62 SOAP

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 10:50 PM

To be honest, I think you're making this subject more complicated than it needs to be. Nintendo has given us lots of evidence that the Sheikah were good, and no evidence to suspect their motivations. So why are you saying that we should suspect them when Nintendo haven't provided any reason for us to?


Because one of the raeson people say that the Twili cannot be the Sheikah is because the Sheikah are good and the Twili are evil. As if Good and Evil are pernament things taht whole races belong to and cannot change. I imagine the Twili were once good and maybe never were evil to begin with, only percieved as such because they tried to claim the Triforce for themselves which goes againts the Hylians' welfare. We know the Twili eventually turn good so maybe they started out as good and then lust for tRiforce turned them bad, as it almost always does to people, and after a while the reverted to being good. So there's no reason to think invidividual Sheikah couldn't have went rogue and eventually became the Twili.

#63 Raien

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 11:10 PM

Because one of the raeson people say that the Twili cannot be the Sheikah is because the Sheikah are good and the Twili are evil. As if Good and Evil are pernament things taht whole races belong to and cannot change. I imagine the Twili were once good and maybe never were evil to begin with, only percieved as such because they tried to claim the Triforce for themselves which goes againts the Hylians' welfare. We know the Twili eventually turn good so maybe they started out as good and then lust for tRiforce turned them bad, as it almost always does to people, and after a while the reverted to being good. So there's no reason to think invidividual Sheikah couldn't have went rogue and eventually became the Twili.


The origins of the Twili come from the Hyrulians' greed for the power of the Triforce, so it would indeed suggest that the Dark Tribe were once good like everyone else. But there is no evidence to suggest that the Sheikah were tempted by the forces of Darkness, whether or not they potentially could become evil.

#64 SOAP

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 02:17 AM

Here's the eye symbol i was talking about in that you fine in Forsaken Fortress.

http://www.zeldawiki..._symbol_TWW.jpg

Actually it turns out to be exactly like the OoT Sheikah Symbol. At least more so the one we see depicted with Impa in the stain glass window which looks more like a magic lamp than the Sheikah Eye. It may have belonged to whatever rival pirates Tetra says once inhabited Forsaken Fortress but if they were Sheikah, they weren't exactly chummy with Tetra a royal decendant.

And wait, wait! Wasn't there a Sheikah Eye in Zant's throne room?

Edited by SOAP, 26 February 2008 - 02:18 AM.


#65 Raien

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 03:06 AM

Here's the eye symbol i was talking about in that you fine in Forsaken Fortress.

http://www.zeldawiki..._symbol_TWW.jpg

Actually it turns out to be exactly like the OoT Sheikah Symbol. At least more so the one we see depicted with Impa in the stain glass window which looks more like a magic lamp than the Sheikah Eye. It may have belonged to whatever rival pirates Tetra says once inhabited Forsaken Fortress but if they were Sheikah, they weren't exactly chummy with Tetra a royal decendant.


Indeed that it a derivative of the Sheikah eye, but now that the Sheikah have all disappeared, does it's appearance have any real relevance anymore? Like the Gossip Stones, I think this is just a remnant of a memory.

And wait, wait! Wasn't there a Sheikah Eye in Zant's throne room?


The Twilight magic takes a shape that people think looks vaguely like the Sheikah symbol. It's basically a circle with a rectangle coming out from the bottom.

#66 Showsni

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 03:21 PM

You can't call a race of people "evil" or "good." Individual people can be different things regardless of their race. Were, for instance, the Romans evil or good? You can't say. Some might be good, some evil. Even a generally "good" race can have bad eggs - look at Ganondorf in FSA. An "evil" race can have noble and good people - Nabooru in OoT, say. The Sheikah might have been, in general, benefactors of Hyrule, but that doesn't mean they were all shining paragons.

It's possible some members of the Sheikah tribe were a part of those who became Twili. It's possible that they didn't. We don't really have enough information to say for sure. We have some circumstancial evidence; an affinity for "shadows," the use of the eye by various peoples throughout Zelda history... But there's no hard truth.


#67 LionHarted

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 04:55 PM

Wasn't the moral of Twilight Princess that light cannot exist without darkness?

Or, on a more human level, that good qualities and evil qualities are just part of human nature?

#68 SOAP

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 07:36 PM

Indeed that it a derivative of the Sheikah eye, but now that the Sheikah have all disappeared, does it's appearance have any real relevance anymore? Like the Gossip Stones, I think this is just a remnant of a memory.


Point is, if it means what you say, it wouldn't make sense to hanging around a place for evil. It'd be like an evil demon decorating his stronghold with crosses or some other religious artifact that represents the defeat of evil. It's the opposite of FuBu. If it's just a creepy eye that has connotations of Death or Esoteric knowlege, then it would make sense to be used by both good and evil people.

Edited by SOAP, 26 February 2008 - 07:38 PM.


#69 Raien

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 06:17 AM

You can't call a race of people "evil" or "good." Individual people can be different things regardless of their race. Were, for instance, the Romans evil or good? You can't say. Some might be good, some evil. Even a generally "good" race can have bad eggs - look at Ganondorf in FSA. An "evil" race can have noble and good people - Nabooru in OoT, say. The Sheikah might have been, in general, benefactors of Hyrule, but that doesn't mean they were all shining paragons.


Alright, let's take an example from LOTR. The Rangers, led by Aragorn, were the last of a race of men that fought evil in the North to protect the people living further south. Their valiance was strong enough for them to walk through the horrors of the valley of the dead where others would cower and run. And yet we know these men have the power to turn to Darkness because their ancestor, Isildur, was corrupted by the One Ring. So what you are saying is that because the Rangers could potentially be corrupted, there could be a storyline that some Rangers became evil and caused havoc in the North? Because that's what you appear to be saying about the Sheikah.

Although the Sheikah have the potential to turn to Darkness, their purpose in the Zelda stories is that they are wise and valiant in the fight against evil, just as the Rangers were. They serve the purpose of protecting Hyrule from the evils in the Shadow Temple; they fought for peace in Hyrule in the wars that plagued it. Even if they could be corrupted, that human flaw has no part to play in the Zelda stories. It's speculation for the purpose of speculation.

Point is, if it means what you say, it wouldn't make sense to hanging around a place for evil. It'd be like an evil demon decorating his stronghold with crosses or some other religious artifact that represents the defeat of evil. It's the opposite of FuBu. If it's just a creepy eye that has connotations of Death or Esoteric knowlege, then it would make sense to be used by both good and evil people.


What do you mean wouldn't make sense hanging around a place of evil? The Evil Eye or the Sheikah Eye? The Evil Eye makes sense because it represents evil. And the Sheikah Eye doesn't hang around evil places; it hangs around items and places used by the Sheikah for the purposes of fighting evil.

Edited by jhurvid, 27 February 2008 - 06:17 AM.


#70 SOAP

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 07:55 AM

You can't call a race of people "evil" or "good." Individual people can be different things regardless of their race. Were, for instance, the Romans evil or good? You can't say. Some might be good, some evil. Even a generally "good" race can have bad eggs - look at Ganondorf in FSA. An "evil" race can have noble and good people - Nabooru in OoT, say. The Sheikah might have been, in general, benefactors of Hyrule, but that doesn't mean they were all shining paragons.


Alright, let's take an example from LOTR. The Rangers, led by Aragorn, were the last of a race of men that fought evil in the North to protect the people living further south. Their valiance was strong enough for them to walk through the horrors of the valley of the dead where others would cower and run. And yet we know these men have the power to turn to Darkness because their ancestor, Isildur, was corrupted by the One Ring. So what you are saying is that because the Rangers could potentially be corrupted, there could be a storyline that some Rangers became evil and caused havoc in the North? Because that's what you appear to be saying about the Sheikah.

Although the Sheikah have the potential to turn to Darkness, their purpose in the Zelda stories is that they are wise and valiant in the fight against evil, just as the Rangers were. They serve the purpose of protecting Hyrule from the evils in the Shadow Temple; they fought for peace in Hyrule in the wars that plagued it. Even if they could be corrupted, that human flaw has no part to play in the Zelda stories. It's speculation for the purpose of speculation.

Point is, if it means what you say, it wouldn't make sense to hanging around a place for evil. It'd be like an evil demon decorating his stronghold with crosses or some other religious artifact that represents the defeat of evil. It's the opposite of FuBu. If it's just a creepy eye that has connotations of Death or Esoteric knowlege, then it would make sense to be used by both good and evil people.


What do you mean wouldn't make sense hanging around a place of evil? The Evil Eye or the Sheikah Eye? The Evil Eye makes sense because it represents evil. And the Sheikah Eye doesn't hang around evil places; it hangs around items and places used by the Sheikah for the purposes of fighting evil.


I'm talking about the Sheikah eye we see on the sheild hanging on the walls of Forsaken Fortress, Ganondorf's base of operations. He's obviously not Sheikah but he would know what the symbol means more than anyone else and if it means what you say, it wouldn't make sense for him to leave it hanging around where it would cause bad moral amongst his men. If the symbol just means daeth and esoteric knowlege, which what I've always interpretted it as, then I could see Ganondorf leaving it hangig on the wall sense he thinks of himself as in the know about the Goddesses being the ones who caused the death of Hyrule.

#71 Raien

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 08:08 AM

I'm talking about the Sheikah eye we see on the sheild hanging on the walls of Forsaken Fortress, Ganondorf's base of operations. He's obviously not Sheikah but he would know what the symbol means more than anyone else and if it means what you say, it wouldn't make sense for him to leave it hanging around where it would cause bad moral amongst his men. If the symbol just means daeth and esoteric knowlege, which what I've always interpretted it as, then I could see Ganondorf leaving it hangig on the wall sense he thinks of himself as in the know about the Goddesses being the ones who caused the death of Hyrule.


So there's an exception to the general rule; how does that change the role of the Sheikah in the Zelda series? On the other side of the fence, the ancient statue that Impaz gave Ilia depicted the Evil Eye; no tear to be seen.

Considering the enormous amount of evidence that tells us the Sheikah perform the role of the Rangers in Hyrule; there's no reason to believe that they became the Twili.

#72 CID Farwin

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 10:29 PM

I've got a simple explanation that can end this discussion:

Posted Image

^That's Ganon's trident.

#73 FDL

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 10:56 PM

I've got a simpler one. Some symbols don't mean a thing. However, if that's not the case then I'd say most of the explanations offered here are options.

#74 SOAP

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 04:43 PM

I'm talking about the Sheikah eye we see on the sheild hanging on the walls of Forsaken Fortress, Ganondorf's base of operations. He's obviously not Sheikah but he would know what the symbol means more than anyone else and if it means what you say, it wouldn't make sense for him to leave it hanging around where it would cause bad moral amongst his men. If the symbol just means daeth and esoteric knowlege, which what I've always interpretted it as, then I could see Ganondorf leaving it hangig on the wall sense he thinks of himself as in the know about the Goddesses being the ones who caused the death of Hyrule.


So there's an exception to the general rule; how does that change the role of the Sheikah in the Zelda series? On the other side of the fence, the ancient statue that Impaz gave Ilia depicted the Evil Eye; no tear to be seen.

Considering the enormous amount of evidence that tells us the Sheikah perform the role of the Rangers in Hyrule; there's no reason to believe that they became the Twili.

I'm just saying (I can't believe how many times I have to repeat myself on this) that we don't know much of anything about the Sheikah other than they served the royal family and fought in the war prior to ooT on the side of the Hylians. They're also called the Shadows of the Hylians and are associated with darkness/shadow magic. Other than that we know nothing. I'm not saying they hAD to be evil. I'm saying, they don't HAVE to be good either. And no eye symbol with a tear is proof either way seeing as even villians sport some version of a crying eye symbol in one form or another. For that matter is probably not even proff of being Sheikah. Not by itself at least. The interpretation that symbolizes the Sheikah beating up the Darkness and making it cry is just one interpretation out of several. It's not a fact and doesn't prove that no Sheikah can ever become evil. I'm not saying they all became evil or they always are, just saying that there's always the possibility. There's also the possibility that the Twili were never evil either. All we know is that they attempted to seize the Triforce which was an act that worked against the benefit of the people of Hyrule, and therefore it was "evil." So saying the Sheikah cannot be the Twili because they can't be evil is a moot point. Good and Evil aren't always clear-cut, and even Ganondorf has some redeeming qualities to him and the benevolent King of Hyrule admits he has his faults like Ganon.


I've got a simpler one. Some symbols don't mean a thing. However, if that's not the case then I'd say most of the explanations offered here are options.

That's all I ask for.

#75 Raien

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 08:52 AM

I'm just saying (I can't believe how many times I have to repeat myself on this) that we don't know much of anything about the Sheikah other than they served the royal family and fought in the war prior to ooT on the side of the Hylians. They're also called the Shadows of the Hylians and are associated with darkness/shadow magic.


We also know that they were entrusted with the Sky Book when the Oocca left the land of Hyrule, that they served as the wardens of the Shadow Temple, that they made items to see truth hidden by the Darkness.

They are called the "shadows of the Hylians" because they were ninjas that protected the Royal Family, and their association with darkness was as the wardens of the Shadow Temple. This has been made perfectly clear.

I'm not saying they hAD to be evil. I'm saying, they don't HAVE to be good either.


It's possible that the Sheikah were evil, and it's also possible that the three goddesses are in fact aliens from outer-space. If you define "possible" as "potential speculation which we have no evidence to support" then by all means believe what you want to believe, but that doesn't mean I have to accept your speculation if I don't think there's any real justification for it.

And this is the point that I've had to constantly repeat in this topic. All the evidence leads us to the conclusion that they were good, nothing leads us to the conclusion that they were evil. If you want to suspect the Sheikah without justification for doing so, then please stop trying to get me to agree with you, because I won't.

There's also the possibility that the Twili were never evil either. All we know is that they attempted to seize the Triforce which was an act that worked against the benefit of the people of Hyrule, and therefore it was "evil."


You seem to have forgotten a lot about Twilight Princess's storyline. The Twili's ancestors wielded powerful evil magic called the Fused Shadows, and they were shown by Lanyru to have executed their enemies with that magic. Clearly they were evil, and the greed that motivated them to seize the Triforce was just one aspect of that evil.

#76 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 05:02 PM

So just because they kill their enemies in a war, and they're greedy for the Triforce, they're evil? Sorry, but that would screw over all Hyrulian races.

Except the Kokiri.

#77 Raien

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 05:29 PM

So just because they kill their enemies in a war, and they're greedy for the Triforce, they're evil? Sorry, but that would screw over all Hyrulian races.


Look, I'm not debating that the Sheikah are inherently good or that the Twili's ancestors were inherently evil. I recognise that both tribes could change allegiances, and I think that the Twili's ancestors were most likely good before they were gripped by their greed for power.

All I'm asking for is some active implications that the Twili's ancestors were Sheikah, and the answer is that there are none. We cannot connect the Sheikah with the Twili through an allegiance with Darkness because the Sheikah don't possess one.

#78 SOAP

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 01:58 PM

So just because they kill their enemies in a war, and they're greedy for the Triforce, they're evil? Sorry, but that would screw over all Hyrulian races.


Look, I'm not debating that the Sheikah are inherently good or that the Twili's ancestors were inherently evil. I recognise that both tribes could change allegiances, and I think that the Twili's ancestors were most likely good before they were gripped by their greed for power.

All I'm asking for is some active implications that the Twili's ancestors were Sheikah, and the answer is that there are none. We cannot connect the Sheikah with the Twili through an allegiance with Darkness because the Sheikah don't possess one.


I guess the core of our disagreement is whether or not Shadow=Darkness. I don't see much of a difference between the too other than I suppose "Shadow" could be considered grayer shade of Good or at least moral neutrality but beyond that I don't see a difference without brining in natural physic of how light produces shadows and that somehow makes Shadow Good or some nonsense. And even if Shadow and Darkness are completely different and the Sheikah have no allegiance to Darkness it doesn't matter because the Twili are associated with Shadow in Twili, just as the Sheikah are in OoT. The Japanese text cements it even more, with the Twili being called the Shadow Tribe and the Twilight Realm being the Shadow Realm.

#79 Raien

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 02:48 PM

I guess the core of our disagreement is whether or not Shadow=Darkness. I don't see much of a difference between the too other than I suppose "Shadow" could be considered grayer shade of Good or at least moral neutrality but beyond that I don't see a difference without brining in natural physic of how light produces shadows and that somehow makes Shadow Good or some nonsense. And even if Shadow and Darkness are completely different and the Sheikah have no allegiance to Darkness it doesn't matter because the Twili are associated with Shadow in Twili, just as the Sheikah are in OoT. The Japanese text cements it even more, with the Twili being called the Shadow Tribe and the Twilight Realm being the Shadow Realm.


Before Twilight Princess was released, all definitions of Shadow as magical energy referred to Darkness. There was no Twilight or Twilight Realm in OoT. But even then, we still have to account for the literal meaning of "shadow". The definition of the Sheikah as the "Tribe of Shadow" or the "shadows of the Hylians" is clearly literal, because they protect Hyrule by hiding in the shadows. So although we accept that the Sheikah have the potential to be evil, like all Hyrulians, there is no evidence that the tribe possessed evil tendencies according to OoT.

When Twilight Princess was released, it introduced a new definition for Shadow, which refers specifically to Twilight magic and the Twilight Realm. But even with this new definition, we have no evidence that the Twili's ancestors (the Dark Tribe) had any connection to the Twilight Realm before the goddesses sealed them away. The Fused Shadows that they wielded was an item of Darkness; an evil power. So although we accept that the Dark Tribe were once good, they are only evil as far as the storyline is concerned.

And therein lies the problem. All the Sheikah's connotations with Darkness/Shadow are in ways that disassociate them with evil itself, whereas all the Dark Tribe's connotations with Darkness/Shadow are in a purely evil association. To connect the two is speculation.

Edited by jhurvid, 08 March 2008 - 02:49 PM.


#80 SOAP

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 01:21 AM

I guess the core of our disagreement is whether or not Shadow=Darkness. I don't see much of a difference between the too other than I suppose "Shadow" could be considered grayer shade of Good or at least moral neutrality but beyond that I don't see a difference without brining in natural physic of how light produces shadows and that somehow makes Shadow Good or some nonsense. And even if Shadow and Darkness are completely different and the Sheikah have no allegiance to Darkness it doesn't matter because the Twili are associated with Shadow in Twili, just as the Sheikah are in OoT. The Japanese text cements it even more, with the Twili being called the Shadow Tribe and the Twilight Realm being the Shadow Realm.


Before Twilight Princess was released, all definitions of Shadow as magical energy referred to Darkness. There was no Twilight or Twilight Realm in OoT. But even then, we still have to account for the literal meaning of "shadow". The definition of the Sheikah as the "Tribe of Shadow" or the "shadows of the Hylians" is clearly literal, because they protect Hyrule by hiding in the shadows. So although we accept that the Sheikah have the potential to be evil, like all Hyrulians, there is no evidence that the tribe possessed evil tendencies according to OoT.

When Twilight Princess was released, it introduced a new definition for Shadow, which refers specifically to Twilight magic and the Twilight Realm. But even with this new definition, we have no evidence that the Twili's ancestors (the Dark Tribe) had any connection to the Twilight Realm before the goddesses sealed them away. The Fused Shadows that they wielded was an item of Darkness; an evil power. So although we accept that the Dark Tribe were once good, they are only evil as far as the storyline is concerned.

And therein lies the problem. All the Sheikah's connotations with Darkness/Shadow are in ways that disassociate them with evil itself, whereas all the Dark Tribe's connotations with Darkness/Shadow are in a purely evil association. To connect the two is speculation.


I see.

#81 rayne85

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Posted 04 April 2008 - 09:33 PM

you're all looking at this too narrowly, you're constricting your basis on there being one sole sheik tribe, why cant there be two?

#82 Raien

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 06:46 AM

you're all looking at this too narrowly, you're constricting your basis on there being one sole sheik tribe, why cant there be two?


For the same reason we don't discuss the possibility of aliens creating Hyrule; there's no evidence for it.

#83 Duke Serkol

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 07:00 AM

No, he has a good point. Termina could have had its own Sheikah tribe, just as it has its own Gorons, Zoras etc.

#84 rayne85

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 07:43 AM

no evidence, but lots of speculation

#85 Jumbie

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 06:09 PM

I should clarify the terms used in Japanese OoT once again. Although the Sheikahs are called the "shadows" of the Hylians, they are called the Race of Darkness, their temple is the Temple of Darkness, and Impa is the Sage of Darkness. Don't know if it helps here though...

#86 Prime Blue

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 11:33 AM

Ah, I was being a little secretive there. Impalse (インパレス) is Fanadi's Japanese name. The same Katakana are used to transcribe "impulse", but I prefer to write it with an A because that way, the pun on Impa becomes clear. After all, the name of Impa (インパ) is included completely within the fortune-teller's name.

Ah btw, Impaz is actually called Impal (インパル). Now is that better or worse..?

Taking her alleged connection to the Sheikah tribe and the old woman from the Forgotten Village into consideration, it's safe to say that the first part is indeed right and reads "Impa", but "impulse" would be written インパルス (inparusu). So we're missing a letter in Impalse, the "e" from "レ/re". There are several ways to translate the name now. Impalace ("パレス" is a common transliteration of "palace" and Impalace lends itself well to Impal - "Impar" just wouldn't sound right...), Impales, or Impares ("odd numbers" in Spanish, though I don't think the designer intended that).

Edited by Prime Blue, 04 May 2009 - 02:16 PM.


#87 Jumbie

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 02:08 PM

So we're missing a letter in Impalse, the "e" from "レ/re". There are several ways to translate the name now. Impalace ("パレス" is a common transliteration of "palace" and Impalace lends itself well to Impal - "Impar" just wouldn't sound right...), Impales, or Impares ("odd numbers" in Spanish, though I don't think the designer intended that).

You're completely right. Let's make it Impalace then. This will also be the reason why NoA called her house Fanadi's Palace. Speaking of that, it's possible that Impalace is just the name of her institution and not her own name. But if so, wouldn't it be weird for her not to have a name in Japan?
So, I'll call that lady Impalace from now on, but if someone prefers to call her Fanadi that can be justified by assuming that Impalace refers to her business. Either way, the remaining hint at Impa makes her being a Sheikah undeniable.

#88 Celandine_daughter_of_Impa

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 07:39 AM

:rolleyes:

Okay, I'm getting carried away here. It's like this: I KNOW I'm speculating about the Sheikah being evil. I'm just saying, it's just as much speculation taht they're good. Personally I think they're neutral and being Good or Evil depends on whether or not they benefit the Hylians or not. My point is they could be be evil, but that wouldn't matter if they were an evil that sided with the royal family. But my interepretation has always been that were neutral, as in they side with the "Good Guys" but you wouldn't want to cross paths with one of them in a dark alley. They have many traits in common with ninjas which are ruthless assassins and that's how I always pictured the Sheikah to be. Benevolent is the least thing that comes to mind when I think of the word "Ninja."


Just because Ninjas hide from clear sight (because it's a good tactical strategy) doesn't mean that we should suspect them of wrongdoing. If it wasn't for those skills, Zelda would have been caught by Ganondorf long before she was. And let's not forget that the Sheikah follow strict codes of honour; the fact that they are generally dedicated to fighting evil tells us that that is the function of their tribe.

To be honest, I think you're making this subject more complicated than it needs to be. Nintendo has given us lots of evidence that the Sheikah were good, and no evidence to suspect their motivations. So why are you saying that we should suspect them when Nintendo haven't provided any reason for us to?

The thing that bother me about your interpreatation of the Sheikah Eye symbol is that it's just an interpretation and you're using it as a fact to determine whether something is good or evil depending if the symbol has a tear or not. Maybe it has basis on whether it's a sheikah Eye symbol or just a generic creepy eye. But there's more than one interepreation for the teardrop. I think it's just symbolic of their association with Death and how people mourn the dead at furnerals. To me it just comes across as a creepy gothic thing, not good or evil just sad and cheerless. But other than that I don't think it has much other signifagance. It looks makes it look cool, nothing more. Nothing less.


The reason I refer so much to the Sheikah Symbol is because it demonstrates my argument perfectly. Sheikah culture has been referenced in numerous places as a tribe dedicated to fighting evil in Hyrule. The manner in which they do this might be unfamiliar to Americans/Europeans, but they are revered in Hyrule as a proud/noble tribe. As if to demonstrate the Sheikah's allegiance, the eye-with-tear is a clear contrast with the Evil Eye. Zelda wears the eye-with-tear in Twilight Princess, which tells us that Zelda and the Sheikah share the same allegiance, although we could have deduced that from OoT.


You haven't Read the OoT Manga have you? It isn't cannon but it's still ties in well with the story and it's a plausible background for the eye symbol. In the Manga, Sheik tells Link that the eye symbol was originally just the eye, but the royal family betrayed the sheikah in some way, and thus they added the tear to the symbol to express their sorrow. It has nothing to do with good or evil. The eye symbols without the tear are simply older, placed before the betrayal.

#89 Raien

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 07:57 AM

You haven't Read the OoT Manga have you? It isn't cannon but it's still ties in well with the story and it's a plausible background for the eye symbol. In the Manga, Sheik tells Link that the eye symbol was originally just the eye, but the royal family betrayed the sheikah in some way, and thus they added the tear to the symbol to express their sorrow. It has nothing to do with good or evil. The eye symbols without the tear are simply older, placed before the betrayal.


The OoT Manga's explanation is inconsistent with the depictions of the symbol in the game. If the eye symbol (with or without tear) was only worn by the Sheikah, then it might be plausible, but the eye symbol has appeared in many places totally unrelated to the Sheikah.

The eye-without-tear has only ever been placed in areas full of evil. It originally appeared on Agahnim's robe in official artwork, and ALttP took place centuries in the timeline after OoT. It makes no sense to argue that it was a Sheikah symbol when it has no connection to the Sheikah whatsoever.
The eye-with-tear, on the other hand, has been placed in areas related to benevolence, like Zelda's robe in TP and the wind stones that connect to the Hero's spirit; neither of which have any visible connection to the Sheikah.

In OoT, the Sheikah tribe are identified only as a people dedicated to fighting evil. If the eye represents evil, then the tear represents evil being hurt.

#90 Showsni

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 09:04 AM

and ALttP took place centuries in the timeline after OoT.


That's not a canon fact.





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