76 replies to this topic

[31-Year-Old-From-Georgia]

Where did you get that Laruto was Ruto's decendant from?

[Custommagnum]

I was just playing Wind Waker and got the Earth Sage's Song, and when Laruto appears she says you must find someone of her bloodline to be a replacement sage. From this, we see that the sages in OoT and the sages in ALttP must be seperate in powers, unless they all carry a faint hint the bloodline of Rauru, Zelda, or Nabooru. Also, this means that if TWW indeed does occur after OoT (which you would be hard pressed to deny), then Laruto must be a descendant of Princess Ruto, and therefore is not an ancient sage. Now I know these sage arguments aren't terribly interesting, but humor me by pointing out ways in which I could be wrong. (augh! no soldier!)

teh what?

[SOAP]

Okay, Laruto is an Earth Sage and Ruto is an Water Sage. They come from two totally different set of sages. Ruto is part of the seven sages that guard THE SEAL ON THE GOLDEN REALM. Lauruto is part of the set of two sages that protect the Master Sword. About the only thing the two Zoras have in common is simmilar names.

[davogones]

Laruto is an ancient sage from the point of view of modern TWW times. She was alive at the time that Hyrule was sealed underwater, which was hundreds of years before TWW. Ganondorf killed her when he escaped from the Sacred Realm.

[SOAP]

It's not for convience's sake; it's right there in the game: Laruto and Rado were the two sages that protected the Master Sword, not the seal on Ganondorf that kept him in the Realm of Evil. Nowhere in TWW does it imply that the Earth and Wind Sage were connected to the Seven Sages of OoT. If Laruto is the descendant of any previous sages it was probably an unknown Earth Sage that came before her.

[SOAP]

Okay, first off, in TWW, the Master Sword was part of a seal that froze Hyrule in time and kept Ganon's magic at bay. That has nothing to do with the seal on Golden Land/Dark World. Ganon had aleady broke that seal and was loose on Hyrule. Evidence from the game (the ruins around the castle, the army of frozen moblins and darknuts) suggest that the seal on Dark World was broken and that another seal was created with the MS that froze Ganon in Hyrule while the people fled to the mountian tops. An entirely new seal and thus an entirely new set of Sages.

[Tri-Enforcer]

Okay, first off, in TWW, the Master Sword was part of a seal that froze Hyrule in time and kept Ganon's magic at bay. That has nothing to do with the seal on Golden Land/Dark World. An entirely new seal and thus an entirely new set of Sages.

I never really put much thought into the sages in TWW because I didn't see it as an important part in connecting the storyline--and I still feel that way. By the same token though, it would make sense for the sages in TWW to have a seperate function from the ones in OOT. These sages were around to specifically power the Master Sword as opposed to the Sacred Realm. Which would explain why there were only two sages to be awakened or manifested.

[Doopliss]

Before the great flood Ganon escaped from the Sacred Realm, I don't find any canon fact to say that he was sealed inside it again after/before the flood.

[SOAP]

Not to be rude but who gives a flying rat's ass if you have Calc 3 or whatever. Whatever you have to do in your home life has nothing to do with this debate. It's not like you need give us any excuses. We won't hold it against you if real life gets in the way of debating. In case, you've forgotten we have lives of our own too.:cool:

Back on topic...

Why, then, was there no mention of such a role in OoT, and why would the sword work against Ganon when it obviously didn't contain the full power to repel evil (i.e. it wasn't glowing)? It wasn't until after the battle with Ganon that the sages realized the Master Sword alone isn't enough, so they began lending it power through prayers.

And thus a new set of sages was established to make those prayers. As to what happened to the decendants of the original sages... it's not said. They're were probably killed off long ago or ,like I said before, had no one to awaken them, which could explain why the seal was broken in the first place. With the seal on Ganon's dark imprisonment weakening the people had no choice to turn to keeping the Master Sword powered up. Thus new sages were made to offer up prayers to make sure the sword still "glittered with the power to repel evil" in case of an event that the sword should be needed. However we know that when Ganon finally did break free, Ganon quickly did away with those sages too as stated by the spirits of Laruto and Fado... though Fado is a mystery case himself. What Ganon didn't realize is that Laruto's bloodline carried on through the Rito race instead of the Zora and that any decendants of Fado hid themselves in their Korok forms so therefore their decendants were able to carry on until the next hero could awaken them.

Nowhere does it say that multiple seals are made, so I make the assumption that the seal that kept Ganon in the Sacred Realm and the seal that kept his powers at bay are one and the same. Ganon could appearantly get through the seal after much toil, but he couldn't bring all of his abilities through until somebody with the ability to release the seal did so. Also, the Darknuts being frozen can be explained away by the fact that they are nowhere near so powerful as Ganon, and thus were unable to break free. Anyway, I'd like to continue but I have some Calc 3 to be doing.

Nowhere does it say? How about the the seal that kept the water from crashing down over the castle? How about the other, darker seal that kept Link from leaving the castle? How about the Wind and Earth Seals that the Wind and Earth Temple bosses are supposed be guardians of? There's more seals then just the one created to keep Golden Land closed. The one that kept time frozen in Hyrule is just another one of those created by the Master Sword to buy some time for a new hero to return.

[SOAP]

It is not neccessary to begin a new set of sages when the old set has nothing more to do, they could merely adapt to the new role. Either way, you seem to be in agreement that they aren't ancient - that is they're post OoT, and that's the thing I was shooting for the most. Besides, if Sage-hood is passed down by bloodline you can't just make new sages from nothing.

They have to start from somewhere. Sages weren't around since the dawn of time. There had to have been an original set.

And is it really that absurd to suspect that a Zora sage that comes after the Zora sage Ruto, and who's name is a derivative of Ruto, might just be a descendant?

Is it really absurd to to suspect that she isn't? I mean, they don't even look the same! Ruto looks like a hammerhead-shark type Zora. Laruto looks like an ordinary Zora which could mean she was commoner or at least not of royal blood like Ruto. I suspect Laruto was just a priestess.

1. 2. & 3. All seals nonetheless. And nothing's in the game that suggest that the time seal over the castle is the same seal as the one on Golden Land. Might have been created for simmilar purposes but they were placed on two totally different worlds. The Seal o Golden Land was also a more pernament thing, or at least it was supposed to be. The Time Seal was more a "band-aid" to buy some time. Also, the Wind and Earth Seals are only mentioned in the Nintendo Gallery. Check out Davogones articles for more info.

[Tri-Enforcer]

The sages who were responsible for the seal on The Golden Land were killed off after Ganon broke free. If you recall...at the end of OOT Ganon cursed everyone and said that he would come back and kill the sages descendants. When Ganon broke free...he did just that...he killed off the descendants of the sages from OOT.

With Ganon running rampant...there were no sages nor a hero to stop him. The people prayed to the Gods...and the Gods flooded the world...but a portion of Hyrule was protected from the flood water.... This seal might have been created to keep Ganon at bay and also to keep the Master Sword available for a new hero to take it. I don't personally believe this seal's source of power was from the Master Sword itself--it was powerless remember?--but that's not important.

Where do Laruto and Frado come in at? The sage descendants were killed off...and also there is no need for a seal on the Golden Land with Ganon out of it.... Laruto and Frado were held responsible for powering the the Master Sword with their prayers, until a new hero inherited the sword. Unfortunately, they were killed as well by Ganon (this all happens after the flood)...which is why the Master Sword was powerless and could not repel evil like it use to.

[Zythe]

Sage arguments my favourites... my own old sage argument ... even better.

With Ganon running rampant...there were no sages nor a hero to stop him. The people prayed to the Gods...and the Gods flooded the world...but a portion of Hyrule was protected from the flood water.... This seal might have been created to keep Ganon at bay and also to keep the Master Sword available for a new hero to take it. I don't personally believe this seal's source of power was from the Master Sword itself--it was powerless remember?--but that's not important.

It was powerless because the seal drained most - nearly all of its power.

I was just playing Wind Waker and got the Earth Sage's Song, and when Laruto appears she says you must find someone of her bloodline to be a replacement sage. From this, we see that the sages in OoT and the sages in ALttP must be seperate in powers, unless they all carry a faint hint the bloodline of Rauru, Zelda, or Nabooru. Also, this means that if TWW indeed does occur after OoT (which you would be hard pressed to deny), then Laruto must be a descendant of Princess Ruto, and therefore is not an ancient sage. Now I know these sage arguments aren't terribly interesting, but humor me by pointing out ways in which I could be wrong. (augh! no soldier!)

Laruto is unrelated to Ruto, Laruto was one of the sages who made the Master Sword along with Fado, Ruto and Kaebora Gaebora. If only the forums weren't wiped I could extract all my original quotes and evidence peices.

[Tri-Enforcer]

Sage arguments my favourites... my own old sage argument ... even better.

It was powerless because the seal drained most - nearly all of its power.

Laruto is unrelated to Ruto, Laruto was one of the sages who made the Master Sword along with Fado, Ruto and Kaebora Gaebora. If only the forums weren't wiped I could extract all my original quotes and evidence peices.

It was powerless because the seal drained most - nearly all of its power.

That's not the reason the Master Sword was drained...it was drained because Laruto/Fado were killed...and there were no sages around to power it anymore. It had nothing to do with the seal.

Also Fado and Laruto...did not orginally create the Master Sword...they didn't even come around until generations after OOT.

[Doopliss]

The people of Hyrule forged the Master Sword, that's all we know for sure, so don't fan-fic.

[SOAP]

Certainly they did have to start somewhere, but Sage-dom seems to be ordained by fate (i.e. the Gods) rather than anyone deciding that we need more of them. No mortal chose the sages, their destinies had to be awakened, etc. Therefore, it doesn't logically follow that a new set of sages can be made to fill a niche role.

I never said mortals chose Laruto and Fado to be Sages. Is it so hard to believe that Fado and Laruto were the first ones to be chosen by the Gods? Is it so hard to believe the Gods needed a new set of Sages for a new purpose, especially since it's most likely the other set and the old ways weren't working anymore?

It's not terribly bizarre to suspect they aren't related, however your argument for thinking so is terribly weak. The art difference between each game nullifies most "but it looks/doesn't look like it" arguments. This is especially true between OoT and TWW. You could argue that Zelda from OoT and Zelda from WW aren't related because Zelda in OoT didn't have a watermelon for a head. Yeah, I realize that is a ridiculous comparison, but the point still stands.

Actually, I think TWW Zelda looks more or less like the OoT Zelda, just in another art style. Art styles aside Laruto still looks more like a regular (commoner?) Zora than Ruto. That has nothing to do with art style. It's about clear physical differences between different castes in the Zora race.

If anyone's arguement is weak is yours. You have yet to provide any kind or proof or reason as to why we should believe that Laruto and Fado have anything to do with a set of Sages that HAD A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT JOB THAN THEY DID! All you've given us is lame excuses. If your not going to supply the smallest quote or something then don't waste our time with pointless arguements.

[SOAP]

The whole topic is pointless.

[SOAP]

[darnit... double post]

[SOAP]

Jesus, Mario Jr., you're just an agry little man! Calm down a bit! If I think differently from you, it's not the end of the world.

It's not even about you disagreeing with me. I disagree with Tri-enforcer on some key stuff relating the Zelda Timeline. But I still respect his opinion because he at least respected me enough to provide evidence or a reasonable explantion behind his logic. You just come up here making a claim and instead of backing it up you make excuses like you have Calc 3 or something. Who cares what you do in your personal life. They're not relevant to the discussion at hand. THAT'S what's pissing me off. Also, shame on you for using the savior's name in vain! XP

Ok, Mr. Expert, how many female Zoras are there in OoT? Except for Ruto, there aren't any that I've seen. So, then, how the hell do you know what those "clear physical differences between different castes" are? The only truly abnormal Zora is the King. Also, I already told you the Zelda argument was weak, so there's no use harping on it. The point remains: art differences make the comparison between games poor evidence to base things off of. Ask Davogones, cuz I'm pretty sure I've even seen him say that before.

Okay. You're not paying attention here. Aside from that little comment about Zelda, I was never talking about the art style. I was talking about Laruto looking exactly like non-royal Zora. These appear in other appear in other games beside OoT like MM and OoA which I might add has a different art style than OoT and yet the regular Zora still remains the same. If they wanted to hint that she was related to Ruto, why would they make look like a common Zora?

Also, you never see any female Rito besides Medli in TWW but they are mentioned.

I already linked their jobs through logic in one of my above arguments, one that you never really bothered to argue against, might I add (you went off on seals, I disputed your seal argument, and the rest went ignored). If you can't at least recognize that, then I want someone smarter to argue with. You seem to only latch on to things that are insignificant (such as the stupid Zelda thing I used to illustrate my actual point) and ignore the points that I make.

Hey! You insulted mey!

Also, my "excuses" are not lame, I think logically about the situation and come up with a theory, and I don't have any quotes because the only quote I would need is Laruto saying that the next sage must be from her bloodline, and we know she says that, so I won't bother quoting. Oh, and about your time, if you consider this a waste of time, it's you that's wasting it, not me. Nobody said you had to reply.

That quote was implying a connection between her and Medli (the next Earth Sage) not her and Ruto (A sage affiliated a totally different set of sages!). And one more thing. Laruto also said something about the harp being part of her lineage. Ruto never had a harp.

I think the makers did try to make a connection. Laruto is a friggin' female Zora sage with a name that is derived from Ruto! That's a pretty big reference. Now I realize that that doesn't make anything set in stone, but the fact that this question came up means that some connection exists, regardless of how vague or ambiguous that connection may be.

Medli and Malon both have red hair split in the middle. And OMIGOSH, they both have names that start with "M"! I guess by your logic Medli is a descendant of Malon!

[i]The thing is, Fado and Laruto didn't need to exist until after OoT. So why would the Goddesses ordain sages that weren't neccessary. If you're going to argue that they were neccessary, recall my argument that no one knew that the master sword needed reinforcement until after WW, at which point a new role for the sages was found (which was indeed parallel to their old role, i.e. keeping Ganon sealed away).

Laruto and Fado were making prayers to Gods to keep the sword powered up up until their untimely death way before the Wind Waker. Their roles were well established in Hyrule long before any of the events in the game ever occured.